Valerie Simpson on writing Ain't No Mountain

**BobbyC** · 12-21-2020, 05:01 PM

If you haven't heard this, it's really good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ripvQxv1IUQ

**BobbyC** · 12-21-2020, 05:05 PM

What's odd about what Valerie says here is that Berry wanted to release Reach Out and Touch over Ain't No Mountain. I could have sworn I saw a clip of DR saying the exact opposite--that she had to force Berry to do it. Does anyone remember her saying that? I also think it's funny that after all these years, Valerie still calls the Supremes "The girls."

**BobbyC** · 12-21-2020, 05:10 PM

More: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTc_-01fExk

**BobbyC** · 12-21-2020, 05:37 PM

And even more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8at62GStxwU

**sup_fan** · 12-21-2020, 05:40 PM

what's interesting is BG didn't want ROAT as the debut single but diana insisted. and he didn't want to release Mountain either.

so what DID berry want to release from the debut?!?! lol

**jack020** · 12-21-2020, 05:48 PM

These Things Will Keep Me Loving You?

**TNSUN** · 12-21-2020, 06:05 PM

Awesome story!

**sup_fan** · 12-21-2020, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by jack020

These Things Will Keep Me Loving You?

yeah that was an ok song but basically just a Someday knock off. i can't imagine berry seriously would consider launching the "DIANA ROSS SOLO CAREER" by issuing a supremes knock off

**BobbyC** · 12-21-2020, 06:12 PM

Seems like Berry was completely losing track of how music was changing by 1970. He didn't want to put out Mountain, didn't like What's Going On, didn't want Stevie Wonder writing and producing his own stuff. The era of the manufactured pop groups and 3 minute pop singles was on its way out but BG was resisting change.

**reese** · 12-21-2020, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by sup_fan

what's interesting is BG didn't want ROAT as the debut single but diana insisted. and he didn't want to release Mountain either.

so what DID berry want to release from the debut?!?! lol

Funny. In MOTOWN THE MUSICAL, Berry actually takes credit for wanting ROAT to be Diana's solo debut. She even asked him "Are you out of your f**king mind?"

**jobeterob** · 12-21-2020, 06:54 PM

Prior to this, I've always seen it written that Berry insisted that ROAT be the first single.

**sup_fan** · 12-21-2020, 07:08 PM

well all of this is sort of conjecture and going off of brief interviews with those involved. as we know with the various biographies that have been published over the years, memories can fade and blur. I've never heard Diana disliking Mountain but then again, who knows. the story has always clearly been she was adamant with releasing Reach Out and Berry was lukewarm about it.

**reese** · 12-21-2020, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by sup_fan

well all of this is sort of conjecture and going off of brief interviews with those involved. as we know with the various biographies that have been published over the years, memories can fade and blur. I've never heard Diana disliking Mountain but then again, who knows. the story has always clearly been she was adamant with releasing Reach Out and Berry was lukewarm about it.

Diana said it was her idea to release ROAT in her interview in THE MOTOWN STORY and also used to say it in her act. She would say that Berry didn't want to release it because it was a waltz and they usually didn't sell. That's why I was surprised when Berry took credit for it in his musical.

**SatansBlues** · 12-21-2020, 08:32 PM

The liner notes in TCMS Volume 10: 1970 provides great insight into this topic. Diana's first intended solo record was actually Someday We'll Be Together before it was chosen as the swan song for DRATS. The reason why These Things Will Keep Me Loving You is also mentioned is because Johnny Bristol was promised the follow up release by Berry Gordy once Someday went to number one. Mr. Gordy then scuttled those plans and tasked A&S with working on Diana Ross's debut single. In the liner notes Ashford is quoted as saying that "Berry told us that he wanted to get a little bit away from the Motown Sound." The liner notes go into more detail regarding the creation of the song Reach Out, and how the Bones Howe recordings came to be. Motown also had scheduled DR's first album to be titled "Time and Love".
The notes also say that DR had to fight for the song's release.

This series is worth seeking out, not just for the music but the liner notes are priceless.

**BobbyC** · 12-22-2020, 11:04 AM

What I recall is a TV appearance, maybe Mike Douglas, where DR sang Reach Out and Touch. When the song was done, DR explained, like she was a little annoyed, that she had to badger Motown to release Reach Out and Touch. She had the attitude like see? It's racing up the charts and people like it so I was right! Maybe this was right before it stalled outside the top twenty.

**RanRan79** · 12-22-2020, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by sup_fan

yeah that was an ok song but basically just a Someday knock off. i can't imagine berry seriously would consider launching the "DIANA ROSS SOLO CAREER" by issuing a supremes knock off

I wonder if there exists a single mix of the song. I think with a different mix punching the track up some that "These Things" would've made a worthy debut single. Doubt if it would've followed in "Someday"'s footsteps, but it probably would've done as well as "Reach Out and Touch" on the R&B chart and I think it may have gone top 10 pop. But it definitely needed something extra. Of course nothing would've been more perfect than "Aint No Mountain High Enough" as a first single.

**Bluebrock** · 12-22-2020, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by BobbyC

What's odd about what Valerie says here is that Berry wanted to release Reach Out and Touch over Ain't No Mountain. I could have sworn I saw a clip of DR saying the exact opposite--that she had to force Berry to do it. Does anyone remember her saying that? I also think it's funny that after all these years, Valerie still calls the Supremes "The girls."

Diana told me that ROAT was her choice as her debut single and not Berry's, but i don't recall her telling me what Berry's preferred choice of single was.
Maybe i wrote it in my journal, but i cannot recall without consulting it.

**BobbyC** · 12-22-2020, 11:52 AM

Hi Blue--yeah that's the version of the story that I heard. Valerie said in another interview that Berry wanted to get away from the old Motown sound, and enlisted her and Nick to achieve that. My sense is that Berry knew the cutesy 3 minute pop song era was over, at least for a while, when people like Isaac Hayes and Barry White were doing big, sweeping, orchestrated numbers that could be half the length of a whole LP. Norman W was also experimenting with that kind of formula and it worked. I'm glad Ashford and Simpson stuck to their guns because the level-headed amongst ye will agree that Ain't No Mountain was a superior pop song, whether you are a DR fan or not.

**reese** · 12-22-2020, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by BobbyC

What I recall is a TV appearance, maybe Mike Douglas, where DR sang Reach Out and Touch. When the song was done, DR explained, like she was a little annoyed, that she had to badger Motown to release Reach Out and Touch. She had the attitude like see? It's racing up the charts and people like it so I was right! Maybe this was right before it stalled outside the top twenty.

This sounds like it was her appearance on the Merv Griffin show. She didn't do any other television spots that first year. By the time it was taped, AIN'T NO MOUNTAIN HIGH ENOUGH was already #1.

**BobbyC** · 12-22-2020, 01:23 PM

Reese yeah it was either Douglas or Merv, but you are probably right. I wonder why she didn't do Mountain if it was at #1

**PeaceNHarmony** · 12-22-2020, 01:32 PM

It's long been established that Diana said Berry did not want 'Reach Out' released, at least not for the first single. In fact, on at least one tv appearance, and during the first solo tour Diana would make mention of this.