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  1. #1

    Marvelettes : Too Many Tears, Too Many Times

    Eugene Dozier is credited on this track from IN FULL BLOOM.

    A relation Eddie and Lamont?

  2. #2
    Don't know the answer to your question, but it's an excellent track. My favorite line is when Wanda sings, "All those sweet things that you said, must be something that you read." I can't believe it sat in the vault for 4 yars before making it onto this album. I'm also not hearing Kat and Gladys in the background.

  3. #3

  4. #4
    Well SatinsBlues you would not hear Gladys as she left in 1967. The line-up now was Wanda, Kat & Ann. It's a great fav of mine.

    https://youtu.be/0XV99pVFqMA

    Too Many Tears, Too Many Times (William Stevenson-Ivy Jo Hunter-Eugene Dozier) published Jobete 30-Jun-69

  5. #5
    Copley
    It was recorded in 1965..so the line up is older than you may think.
    Wm Stevenson left in 1966...

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by copley View Post
    Well SatinsBlues you would not hear Gladys as she left in 1967. The line-up now was Wanda, Kat & Ann. It's a great fav of mine.

    https://youtu.be/0XV99pVFqMA

    Too Many Tears, Too Many Times (William Stevenson-Ivy Jo Hunter-Eugene Dozier) published Jobete 30-Jun-69

    On DFTMC the track is listed as having been completed on September 29, 1965. It sat in the can until it pas placed on In Full Bloom in '69. It seems like some producers leaned towards using the group members in the background and other producers leaned heavily on the Andantes. I'm not sure which way Ivy Jo Hunter and Wm Stevenson usually went.

  7. #7
    Eugene Dozier went on to team up with Bunny Sigler as co-writers. He kept leaving & then returning to Philly. He initially worked on stuff for Swan, Cameo but then went to Detroit, then LA before returning to work on Neptune & Gamble stuff. He then worked as part of GH's team with the likes of the Sweet Inspirations, Wilson Pickett, Bobby Bennett, the Vibrations and more. Then he worked in DC before heading back to LA where he eventually ended up at SOLAR (where he had much success)

  8. #8
    And from Soulfuldetroit archives....

    Geo-Si-Mik song, "I'll bet you", was covered by a number of artists over the years. It is also credited to being co-written by Ms. Theresa Lindsey.

    Theresa was an artist with Wilbur Golden's Correc-tone label prior to her arrival at Golden World.

    She recorded three excellent songs there, including the brilliant "Gotta find a way".

    "I'll bet you" is an action packed song. The flip side, "Daddy-O", is much more laid back and is one of the best sides to have been released on Golden World. It was written and produced by Don Davis and Billy Jackson.

    The latter was actually Gene Dozier, a fact confirmed by Bobby Eli on the forum. Gene had started out with Cameo in Philadelphia before moving to Detroit and Motown Records in 1965.

    Motown didn't work out however, so he tried his luck at Golden World through Richard Parker, who was A&R Director at that time.

    Another collaboration with Don Davis produced "Let's get together" for Pat Lewis.

    After a couple of months Gene moved to Sunset Boulevard, in Hollywood, where he signed with the Minit label as Gene Dozier and the Brotherhood. The resultant instrumental, "Hunk of funk", fared reasonably well.

  9. #9
    And for the details from our archives....

    https://soulfuldetroit.com/archives/...tml?1050647650

  10. Quote Originally Posted by SatansBlues View Post
    On DFTMC the track is listed as having been completed on September 29, 1965. It sat in the can until it pas placed on In Full Bloom in '69. It seems like some producers leaned towards using the group members in the background and other producers leaned heavily on the Andantes. I'm not sure which way Ivy Jo Hunter and Wm Stevenson usually went.
    With Wm Stevenson and Ivy Jo in particular, they would try to use the actual group on backgrounds. If you have either of the Marvelettes Forever More sets, there are a lot of unreleased songs from '64/'65 by Stevenson and Hunter where the girls themselves are on backgrounds and doing a hell of a great job. But nobody heard that development because so much was kept in the can.

    Recently on FB, Ivy had commented on the ladies' work on his "Just One More Kiss". He recalled that they worked very hard on that one with its unique chord structure. "Rainy Mourning" was another one Ivy did, again, using the actual group. With that one, he was going for a Mamas and Papas layered vocal effect. I believe that one has them "stacking" their vocals much like the M&Ps did as well as the Beach Boys. Seems the Marvelettes really did a lot more progressive things in the studio that previously realized.

  11. #11
    I was surprised to see that Wiki didn't have an entry for "In Full Bloom", so I took a stab at it. Not spectacular, but it's a start.

  12. #12
    Awesome, marybrewster!

  13. #13
    Love this album! Waitingwatching, that’s an interesting observation about Stevenson and Hunter. I never realized it. Does anyone know which other songs on In Full Bloom feature actual Marvelettes in the background?

  14. #14
    MotownFan1, I would say that the tracks on 'In Full Bloom' album which feature The Marvelettes as background vocalists are:

    * Uptown
    * At Last I See Love As It Really Is (with additional vocals by The Andantes)
    * Now Is The Time For Love (with additional vocals by The Andantes)
    * Rainy Mourning
    * Love Silent, Love Deep (with additional vocals by The Andantes)

    All other tracks feature only The Andantes as background vocalists.

    Hope that helps.
    Last edited by westgrandboulevard; 11-05-2020 at 11:00 AM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    Eugene Dozier is credited on this track from IN FULL BLOOM.
    A relation Eddie and Lamont?
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    No. Eugene (Gene) Dozier (AKA Billy Jackson) was from The East Coast. He was no relation to Detroiter, Lamont. As stated above by MikeW, he worked previously in Philadelphia. He also ran his own label, Flaming Arrow Records, which produced Gloria Walker and The Chevelles, and Nancy Butts.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by robb_k View Post
    No. Eugene (Gene) Dozier (AKA Billy Jackson) was from The East Coast. He was no relation to Detroiter, Lamont. As stated above by MikeW, he worked previously in Philadelphia. He also ran his own label, Flaming Arrow Records, which produced Gloria Walker and The Chevelles, and Nancy Butts.
    I believe you're thinking of Eugene Davis. He owned Flaming Arrow, Crow, Anchor, and maybe one other?

  17. Quote Originally Posted by MotownFan1 View Post
    Love this album! Waitingwatching, that’s an interesting observation about Stevenson and Hunter. I never realized it. Does anyone know which other songs on In Full Bloom feature actual Marvelettes in the background?
    Westgrandboulevard beat me to the punch! I'm with you, I love this album too, very much. For one thing, it shows contrary to what had been said for years, the Marvelettes actually ended up on far more of their records that most thought. Another reason this has become a favorite has to do with an article I read years ago about the group. The writer really gave Wanda her props- he wrote that In Full Bloom had a lot of "ornately" orchestrated songs with rather unique lyrical motifs (I'm paraphrasing) but Wanda could sing anything and make it sound great. I thought that was really cool and it made me look at that album in a new way

  18. #18
    Of all the Motown albums ever released, that has to be my favorite cover!

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by nsoule View Post
    I believe you're thinking of Eugene Davis. He owned Flaming Arrow, Crow, Anchor, and maybe one other?
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    Sorry, I had another Senior Moment!!! As Rosanne Rosannadana used to say......."Never Mind!"

  20. #20
    I agree. Great cover!

  21. #21
    Waitingwatching , Sounds like an interesting article. I think that’s very true about the orchestrated songs and the lyrics.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by MotownFan1 View Post
    Waitingwatching , Sounds like an interesting article. I think that’s very true about the orchestrated songs and the lyrics.
    It was and still is the best article I ever read about the group. At the time, I was still discovering so much about Motown and the Marvelettes and this was THE article that de-mystified the girls.

    Probably the first time I read something that actually discussed the vocal styles of Wanda, Gladys and even Katherine individually and in great depth the way everyone else talks about Diana, Martha, Marvin, etc.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    I was surprised to see that Wiki didn't have an entry for "In Full Bloom", so I took a stab at it. Not spectacular, but it's a start.
    @marybrewster,

    nice job!

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