In & Out Of Love-Live!

[chestersong]

i wonder just who they were at this time; same as the 60s?

[marv2]

Andantes are actually credited on the back of the FloyJoy LP

No they weren't . I think I remember seeing Marlene Barrows' name along with several of the musicians, but they did not credit "the Andantes" nor specify which song Marlene was used on.

[rod_rick]

Yeah the Andantes are on Floy Joy but with Mary & Cindy instead of Mary and Cindy. Now The Bitter Now The Sweet [[the Aahs)the Andantes are on for sure not so sure about the other cuts.

[marv2]

Also, when Diana left and Jean joined, didn't Mary and Cindy also participate in the actual recordings, whereas for a number
of years only Diana sang on the records with either the Andantes or other backup vocalists.
People make a big deal out of Phil Spector doing that on the Crystals and the Ronettes records, but Motown did it too.
How many recordings of the Marvelettes only feature Wanda or Gladys as Vandellas recordings only featuring Martha.

I do believe that all three recorded on the recordings after Diana's departure, however, Mary wasn't thrilled when Jimmy
Webb brought in additional backup singers on the lp he produced on them--Jean, Mary, Lynda. By the way, I hated that
lp cover design. I thought it was the absolute worst ever issued by the group [[which they had no control over).

Great points Randy. I might add that the ONLY reason Andantes were added to recordings Jean Terrell made in 1969 for the Supremes was because Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong were touring with Diana Ross. Frank Wilson, Eddie Holland, Lamont Dozier, Brian Holland , R.Dean Taylor all have gone on record [[no pun intended), that they preferred using only the Supremes on their productions for the group!

[skooldem1]

The truth and undisputable fact of the matter is that other voices were still used on recordings after Diana left. It doesn't really matter what the reason is.

[randy_russi]

When Floy Joy was going to be issued they were on Merv Griffin--Jean, Mary, Cindy. Each sang a lead on the song.
I guess Cindy quickly left and they took her lead off the recording and did the photo shoot for the lp with Lynda.
I thought it sounded pretty good with all three singing leads and, of course, the song is melodic and great with
Midas touch of Smokey.

[reese]

The Andantes' credit on the back of the FLOY JOY album is easy to miss because they aren't credited by their group name. There is a [[I think) special thanks section and they are listed there individually, along with the musicians.

In the book on the Andantes, I believe Louvain Demps says that they are on some of the Supremes/Four Tops material as well.

[captainjames]

Ok so lets go for a minute that it was more of a group with JML and less of a group with DMC externally. Internally they were not a group and it was the same old crap over and over again throughout the entire life of the group. It would have been nice to remember the girls as they were on stage but over the years too much crap has been brought to the surface and its not even pretty anymore. ..........and yes there were background singers added to the Supreme songs even after Diana left.

[marv2]

Many fell to miss the point of adding singers to records by groups. In the case of the Supremes it was either to create 3 part harmony which is most difficult when you have just two ladies singing the harmonies. Also to fatten up the backing track. That is ALL!

When sessions singers recorded with Diana Ross, it was to hurry the process. That is ALL!

[rod_rick]

When Floy Joy was going to be issued they were on Merv Griffin--Jean, Mary, Cindy. Each sang a lead on the song.
I guess Cindy quickly left and they took her lead off the recording and did the photo shoot for the lp with Lynda.
I thought it sounded pretty good with all three singing leads and, of course, the song is melodic and great with
Midas touch of Smokey.

I always wondered about that. If Cindy sang lead with Jean & Mary on a recorded version of Floy Joy. Now that would be a great find

[BayouMotownMan]

Randy, the Floy Joy single was released in December, Cindy didn't leave the group until the following April.

Cindy was given a few lines on the song because she had finally spoken up that she was not given enough to do in the act. Mary was aware that Cindy and her husband were trying to have a child and Cindy had long been saying that she would leave the group when it was time to start a family. So they were trying to appease her a little, but it didn't work.

Smokey used the Andantes on all but one track of the Floy Joy lp, either in full or in part. Precious Little Things features Mary and Cindy. Many producers felt at Motown that Mary and Cindy didn't produce powerful enough vocals. When Frank Wilson was producing them he usually had Jean do the backing vocals with Mary and Cindy to fill things out. If you listen to the tracks on the Promises Kept unreleased lp, most of the backing vocals were by the Andantes.

[chestersong]

thank you, Bayoumotownman. it is good to get a reliable explanation.

[Roberta75]

Randy, the Floy Joy single was released in December, Cindy didn't leave the group until the following April.

Cindy was given a few lines on the song because she had finally spoken up that she was not given enough to do in the act. Mary was aware that Cindy and her husband were trying to have a child and Cindy had long been saying that she would leave the group when it was time to start a family. So they were trying to appease her a little, but it didn't work.

Smokey used the Andantes on all but one track of the Floy Joy lp, either in full or in part. Precious Little Things features Mary and Cindy. Many producers felt at Motown that Mary and Cindy didn't produce powerful enough vocals. When Frank Wilson was producing them he usually had Jean do the backing vocals with Mary and Cindy to fill things out. If you listen to the tracks on the Promises Kept unreleased lp, most of the backing vocals were by the Andantes.

Another voice of reason with facts and not a partial point of view.

Many thanks BayouMotownMan.

Roberta

[floyjoy678]

and it should be noted several of the songs recorded with Diana/Jean and the Andantes sound great. I'm not dissing Mary and Cindy's vocal abilities because they had a great blend but I'm glad they were left off of "Love Child", everytime I would hear them perform it live I would cringe at their attempt to recreate the vocals. Now one song I think could've used Mary and Cindy was "I'm Livin' In Shame" they sounded great recreating that live on Hollywood Palace.

[marv2]

and it should be noted several of the songs recorded with Diana/Jean and the Andantes sound great. I'm not dissing Mary and Cindy's vocal abilities because they had a great blend but I'm glad they were left off of "Love Child", everytime I would hear them perform it live I would cringe at their attempt to recreate the vocals. Now one song I think could've used Mary and Cindy was "I'm Livin' In Shame" they sounded great recreating that live on Hollywood Palace.

I didn't like the Andantes songs.

[captainjames]

Thanks BayouMotownMan

Randy, the Floy Joy single was released in December, Cindy didn't leave the group until the following April.

Cindy was given a few lines on the song because she had finally spoken up that she was not given enough to do in the act. Mary was aware that Cindy and her husband were trying to have a child and Cindy had long been saying that she would leave the group when it was time to start a family. So they were trying to appease her a little, but it didn't work.

Smokey used the Andantes on all but one track of the Floy Joy lp, either in full or in part. Precious Little Things features Mary and Cindy. Many producers felt at Motown that Mary and Cindy didn't produce powerful enough vocals. When Frank Wilson was producing them he usually had Jean do the backing vocals with Mary and Cindy to fill things out. If you listen to the tracks on the Promises Kept unreleased lp, most of the backing vocals were by the Andantes.

[mowest]

If I'm not mistaken, in the early years Diana joined Mary and Flo to do backgrounds as well.

[marv2]

If I'm not mistaken, in the early years Diana joined Mary and Flo to do backgrounds as well.

You're not mistaken, they did that because they had such great 3 part harmony that they had developed when they became the Primettes. You one doing the lead and the other three carrying the harmony parts.

[rod_rick]

I have to agree with marv2, I wasn't crazy about the Andantes vocals not only on the supremes but the Vandellas and The Marvelettes. I thought they [[Andantes) sounded great with the Four Tops. Now the exception was Love Child, I liked thier vocals on that one. Has far as power, the Andantes didn't always produce a powerful blend in my opinion. I think they were used more for convenice than their sound, because thier sound wasn't all that imo.

[randy_russi]

Again, I saw them on Merv Griffin with each singing a lead on "Floy Joy". In fact, this was the first time I heard the song.
Later the single is playing on the radio with only Jean and Mary singing the leads.
The lp comes out and Cindy is not there.

[luke]

Ralp has done a great job of restoring order and courtesy here so it is regressive to see some sniping going on here. Cool it. It has been so enjoyable here of late- it really was unsettling to see sniping again-Ralph keep an eye!! I too prefer the songs where Mary and Cindy and Flo are there. The Andantes ones always had anindistinct, homogenous sound. Mary has one of the strongers altos of anyone. I love the combination of Cindy and Mary's voices-Upthe ladder, Stone Love...not weak at all.

[TNSUN]

I think Martha Reeves once said something to the effect, that in Detroit there should be a statue of Diana Ross and that Diana Ross is the hardest working person in Show Business!💝

[arr&bee]

Hmmm,interesting post,you all do know that part of the reason diana was picked wasn't that she was such a good singer,it was that she sounded different with that nasal thing and as i recall berry said something about her voice being good on[a m]radio which was big at the time.

[marv2]

Hmmm,interesting post,you all do know that part of the reason diana was picked wasn't that she was such a good singer,it was that she sounded different with that nasal thing and as i recall berry said something about her voice being good on[a m]radio which was big at the time.

I recall that was the reason Mr. Gordy gave too. I use to laugh at some over zealous fans that tried to make out that Diana Ross was the greatest singer ever and didn't need the Supremes. Now I just shake my head at the ignorance.

[copley]

Diana was not the best singer but she had a very distinctive and instantly recognisable voice. It wasn't soul & it wasn't pop but it was commercial. She also had that look, drive and desire that was always going to propel her to the forefront. She also had to be on every recording unlike Florence/Mary/Cindy not that it was their fault, that was BG's fault. BTW I love all the Supremes.

[TheMotownManiac]

floyjoy678--I noticed you referred to Mary Wilson as "mare". Never heard that before. Anyway, by the time of this clip
obviously Florence is out and the company is pushing for Diana to be the star--which is when they really no longer
were a group. The other two were supposed to just look like backup singers for Diana.
When Diana was gone, everytime they appeared on TV they were back to being a real group where all three had
an important; significant role.

i think, as you watch later shows, you’ll find that Jean had a lot more camera time - which is normal for groups on TV.

[TheMotownManiac]

Great points Randy. I might add that the ONLY reason Andantes were added to recordings Jean Terrell made in 1969 for the Supremes was because Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong were touring with Diana Ross. Frank Wilson, Eddie Holland, Lamont Dozier, Brian Holland , R.Dean Taylor all have gone on record [[no pun intended), that they preferred using only the Supremes on their productions for the group!

i do not recall them going on record saying anything of the sort. I certainly believe that it’s true when Flo was in the group, but I do not believe any producer preferred Mary and Cindy…… And I never heard of any producers saying any such thing. Most supreme’s recordings after Flo left included The Andantes. In Jean’s interview posted here, she said she only sang bg once.

[TheMotownManiac]

Marv

Why not ask Mary that question. Does she consider it more onerous to be a lead singer or as part of a group.

From my experience, there are huge responsibilities on the lead singer, other than learning a few more words.

this is a slippery slope, to imply one person works harder suggests that somebody else is working less hard when in fact everyone is working hard. There is a big difference in that it is certainly more emotionally taxing to be singing lead as you are putting yourself out there every night every show by yourself using your wits to get the audience to love what they are seeing and it’s very very taxing. I’ve done enough musical theater to know it takes a lot more out of you to sing “if he walked into my life “than it does to do six chorus numbers because those are choreographed So that it’s just a matter of going through the motions, and it is a lot lot easier. If you’re having an off night vocally, it doesn’t matter. If you have a cold or a sore throat, it doesn’t matter. If you are pissed off, tipsy, or just not in the mood, it doesn’t really matter it’s not going to show. If you are the lead singer, all of those things factor in. There’s just no getting around it. All three Supremes always worked hard, but anyone who is ever done any performing will tell you it’s much more difficult to seeing late then it is to sing background.

in the case of the Supremes, Mary wisely developed a hard shell to shield her from Mr. Gordy. Mary knew how difficult it was for Motown to fire Florence and she knew that as long as she kept in line, she was in for life. So she put in her time, but had a magnificent life outside of the group and partied and dated and had a wonderful time wherever she was. Anyone who knows Mary, knows how much fun she can be…… You can see it on TV she just has a great personality and while she took her job very seriously, she also very seriously made sure she was making the most of her off time. Mary is unusual in that sense, as none of the other Supremes ever matched her desire for offstage fun…… And I think she was very wise to do as she did. Diana was under Barry’s thumb, and he did a major mindfuck on her that six years after she left the Supremes her husband was still complaining about. He manipulated and emotionally abused her and it made her a mess To the point where she couldn’t eat…… He didn’t care. All he wanted was the money.

[daviddh]

And Ross left Motown because of him.
She had enough. She recently stated .he wasn't nice. He admitted he wasn't and it took her leaving to realize it

[vgalindo]

I recall that was the reason Mr. Gordy gave too. I use to laugh at some over zealous fans that tried to make out that Diana Ross was the greatest singer ever and didn't need the Supremes. Now I just shake my head at the ignorance.

She actually proved she didn’t need the Supremes when she went solo in 1970. Lol.

[Bluebrock]

And Ross left Motown because of him.
She had enough. She recently stated .he wasn't nice. He admitted he wasn't and it took her leaving to realize it

That is a severe understatement. There is much i could say here but i will let you do the maths.

[arr&bee]

Speaking of the floy joy lp-i love the little gem-wisdom of time!

[NativeNuYorker]

Florence, Mary, and Cindy also had a voice and opinions and wanted to speak more during interviews. They were prevented from doing so. Diana had to have the entire limelight, she couldn't even allow Flo to continue to sing her one solo "People" during concerts.