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  1. #1

    Would Motown Have Happened Under Socialism??

    .... just a notion to ponder over.

  2. #2
    Hardly a topic for this forum. Don’t go there.

  3. #3
    Absolutely!

  4. #4
    Funny how just one word can still be open to interpretation. Does jobetrob mean "absolutely" Motown would have survived or does he mean "absolutely" the question is not a proper topic for this forum????

  5. #5
    The big question is ..
    How would Tammi Terrell vote??

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by daviddesper View Post
    Funny how just one word can still be open to interpretation. Does jobetrob mean "absolutely" Motown would have survived or does he mean "absolutely" the question is not a proper topic for this forum????
    I meant Motown would survive under socialism (whatever that means) but this isnít much of a topic for a music forum

  7. #7
    Motown would have thrived. Sales would have doubled. For every album or single a person would buy, they would have had to buy someone else one. ;-)

  8. #8
    Would Motown Have Happened Under Fascism??

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by snakepit View Post
    The big question is ..
    How would Tammi Terrell vote??
    Love me some Tammi but I guess we will never know

  10. #10
    Well, though technically not socialist, that 'British Invasion' thing went quite well under a monarchy, so why not? (ps - too lazy to look for a troll gif ...)

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by TammiTerrellFan View Post
    Love me some Tammi but I guess we will never know
    Good idea for a thread though?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    I meant Motown would survive under socialism (whatever that means) but this isn’t much of a topic for a music forum
    Well, as we know the music industry is impacted by many external factors, so I guess we can have a reasoned and well-intentioned, intellectual discussion. I wonder. Would Motown have survived the Trump Virus?

  13. #13
    Some of you seem a bit worried about considering the consequences of such a scenario.

    Understandably, it is an exigent exercise to have to consider a different outcome, one that some of us would rather not want to imagine, as we continue, some sixty years later, to reap the bounty of this musical manifestation that succeeded to blossom under a system that opened the doors and fueled the drive of a few individuals' competitive determination.

  14. #14
    Could this perhaps move to the top of the Dumbest Thread in Soulful Detroit History rankings...

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by StuBass1 View Post
    Could this perhaps move to the top of the Dumbest Thread in Soulful Detroit History rankings...
    Not quite. Any thread about a Supremes reunion easily tops that list! This one is merely troll-y.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    Not quite. Any thread about a Supremes reunion easily tops that list! This one is merely troll-y.
    Bwahahaha!
    PnH, you always have the best snark!!!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by khansperac View Post
    Motown would have thrived. Sales would have doubled. For every album or single a person would buy, they would have had to buy someone else one. ;-)
    I like that notion , buying for others as you would for yourself , but it might've worked more like this:

    Under socialism , the gov't would allocate the number of records you would be allowed to acquire , for argument's sake, let's say one LP a month, that seems plenty generous by gov't standards.

    Providing that Motown's first LP , HI WE"RE THE MIRACLES had been chosen worthy of pressing, you would then wait in line at the solitary music outlet created for your region , with your claim voucher for one LP in hand to obtain it. While you wait in the lengthy line for your turn, you nervously hope they don't run out , because the gov't had determined that only 200 copies of HI WE'RE THE MIRACLES warranted pressing nationally.

    You are right to be nervous, last month you'd waited way too long to turn in your voucher, thinking the line would shorten, and you got stuck with LAWRENCE WELK's TRADITIONAL WALTZES OF YESTERYEAR as your LP of the month.

    The gov't had wisely delegated the need for two million of those for pressing .
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 10-28-2020 at 06:14 PM.

  18. #18
    I still say this one is the "Dumbest"...All things Supremes are the "Snarkiest" by definition...There WERE actually Supremes, there was not SOCIALISM in America from 1958 to 1973...
    Last edited by StuBass1; 10-28-2020 at 06:16 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by StuBass1 View Post
    I still say this one is the "Dumbest"...All things Supremes are the "Snarkiest" by definition...There WERE actually Supremes, there was not SOCIALISM in America from 1958 to 1973...
    There actually isnít now either sadly

  20. #20
    For those amongst us that don't mind applying a bit of invigorating thought concerning all things Motown , shall we continue??

    It's pretty self evident that without capitalism there would have been no impedes for the creation of a Motown musical empire nor the needed means for its execution .... but let's pretend it somehow could've emerged from a socialist system.

    Since no good standing socialist is going to sing about ... of all things, their desire for money, (at least not out loud), what more sanctioned lyrics might have been substituted in the catchy Berry Gordy breakthrough composition ??




    Last edited by Boogiedown; 10-31-2020 at 03:15 PM.

  21. #21
    Join Date
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    Socialism take people’s money and gives it to total strangers.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Circa 1824 View Post
    Socialism take peopleís money and gives it to total strangers.
    Man that's deep. And wrong too

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Circa 1824 View Post
    Socialism take peopleís money and gives it to total strangers.
    Dont overlook the fact that here in the UK we suffered the dead hand of socialism from 1964 through 1970....Motown's Golden Years.

    Thank goodness That Motown Sound was around to keep us happy.

    And until the Socialists banned our beloved free Radio in 1967, we had the offshore pirate ships to play us soul goodies from the US.

    BTW if you Yanks think Biden is a socialist, you are living on a different planet! So get out and vote for him and restore some sanity to US Government.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by soulwally View Post
    Man that's deep. And wrong too
    Right?? Actually the GOP takes people's money and gives it to major corporations and wealthy individuals while pretending to 'shiv a git' about, as djt sez, 'the poorly educated'.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by fatmaninthethirdrow View Post
    Dont overlook the fact that here in the UK we suffered the dead hand of socialism from 1964 through 1970....Motown's Golden Years.

    Thank goodness That Motown Sound was around to keep us happy.

    And until the Socialists banned our beloved free Radio in 1967, we had the offshore pirate ships to play us soul goodies from the US.

    BTW if you Yanks think Biden is a socialist, you are living on a different planet! So get out and vote for him and restore some sanity to US Government.
    I can only hope. 5-6 years ago none of the people who are in hysterics right now about SOCIALISM ever even heard of it; it just became a GOP rallying cry after Bernie Sanders became popular.

  26. #26
    socialism KILLS competition & creativity. I have extended family that are slaves in Cuba.

  27. #27
    ...I aspired to be a champagne socialist ...but was never rich or important enough...!!

    Grape

  28. #28
    Biden is only slightly more socialist than Margaret Thatcher - i.e. not at all

  29. #29
    why is Biden's name being brought up in this thread about socialism??

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Circa 1824 View Post
    Socialism take people’s money and gives it to total strangers.
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    US current capitalism takes away money from the hard-working main-portion of the population, and hands it to billionaires. So, to most people the difference between that and, say, Scandinavian socialism, doesn't matter a lot. Right now, during the Covid-19 pandemic, the average 60+ year old person is a LOT better off for getting needed medical care, and in a much healthier environment in socialist Denmark and Sweden than they are in USA. And I dare say they also are in "Capitalism with a heart" Canada. The Netherlands and Germany are also somewhat in the "Capitalism with a heart" group, and I'd also take my chances in those places rather than USA (which doesn't believe in science anymore, because The Billionaires who run things there, don't want the people to learn the truth, because it makes them look bad, and worse, they're afraid they might rise up and try to overthrow them).

    There have always been greedy people that want A LOT more than they need, at the expense of all the others. They will do that in ANY social system with population above a small village level. The differences in those situations are how much the people in power want to take for themselves and how much they leave for the rest. The best countries see the benefit of having their people have enough for basic security, decent health, everyone has access to a decent education (so upward mobility is possible for all people who learn what they need to know and work hard). USA no longer provides all these things to the bulk of its population, and their leaders are stubbornly trying to hold on to a way of life that is well on the way to ruining The World for all its large animals, and much of its plant life, just because they want power, luxury, and an easy way of life for themselves and their families right now. It is very selfish. And they use the media to foster similar values among the masses, so the people wont protest and rise up.

    So, oldies like me might well die of Covid-19, just because some people don't want other people telling them to wear a mask. And they don't want people telling them they can't have their guns, and can't burn fossil fuels.

    Sorry for being such a downer, but, if this sick system, with half the country not caring if the other half gets decent medical care, is a system to be admired, and people would rather fight their fellow citizens who think differently, rather than ever accepting a single provider medical system, then The World has gone mad. I'd rather live in a country where a fair amount of taxes are taken away from me, but I get value back for them in a decent environment, and not everyone is running around carrying guns and shooting people because they disagree, and my kids can actually afford to attend university, and everyone can have a decent place to live and enough healthy food to eat.

    A little socialism is better than not caring one bit about other people who live among you, and having sick and starving, and ignorant people all over the place, and hatred and ill will and resulting violence.

    I'll probably get banned for this. I'm just bothered by how things are going, and angry that I'm stuck here for I don't know how long. It's been almost a year already, and I dare not go out into public (especially airport waiting rooms or an airplane) until The Virus is under a good level of control, or I can get a vaccination.

    I'm with you Jobete Rob! (If only that were true!)-and I had stayed at my sister's house in Winnipeg, instead of going on to visit my other sister in L.A.!)

    Do what you will with my membership, Ralph.

  31. #31
    Don't be silly, no one's going to ban you, this thread was clearly meant to be political.

    I'm not looking to take sides on this but I would like to point out that, contrary to what many (especially Americans) believe, Sweden is not socialist and never was (even if that was the original goal of the Social Democrats). Most business and industry is privately owned and the Swedish government has a long history of working together with (ie giving breaks to) their largest private industries because of the jobs they provide.

    Sweden's government simply provides more benefits to their citizens than most other countries and pays for this through generally higher taxation. (I say generally because not all types of taxes are higher; for example, Sweden has no inheritance or estate tax.)

    Sweden's welfare state probably peaked in the late 1980s. Following a financial crisis in the early 1990s, the old model was no longer considered to be sustainable and reforms began which gradually scaled back taxation and the welfare state, though taxation is still higher and the welfare state still more generous than in most European countries.
    Last edited by calvin; 11-03-2020 at 11:18 AM.

  32. #32
    double post sorry . busy morning.
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 11-03-2020 at 12:03 PM.

  33. #33
    I agree with Calvin's comment of "don't be silly" robb k.

    Why would your comments warrant banning? Or even a raised eyebrow?

    I have to admit, I debated whether to open this topic as maybe Ralph would at a minimum remove it from the board. I'm so glad he didn't , this increasing cancel culture that is emerging where people are afraid to think , to express opinions , to have varying views is really frightening.
    What good are these boards if all we do is post "my top five favorite Temptations song are -----" over and over and over again.... Not that there's anything wrong with that , but I'd like to think we are also able to reach a little more at times ......for those that want to. Participating in this thread , reading it even, is completely voluntary. If you find it "dumb" for instance ....move on to any number of other threads. That's what I do if I consider a thread dumb or of no interest . No need to throw darts and arrows, no need to call people trolls ...no need to be mean to others.

    I completely sense the frustration of your situation Robb! It's literally a nightmare! You mentioned Denmark as if somehow because of socialism , they weren't having issues with covid.

    So I quickly looked it up:

    http://CDC recommends travelers avoi...ay be limited.

    They are currently at a level 3 High Risk as is the United States




    • CDC recommends travelers avoid all nonessential international travel to Denmark. Travelers at increased risk for severe illness from COVID-19 should consider postponing all travel, including essential travel, to Denmark.
    • COVID-19 risk in Denmark is high.
    • If you get sick in Denmark and need medical care, resources may be limited.

    The point being ...... well you get it.


    Being the music lover and the record collector to the extent that you are Robb, your input on the actual topic would be most interesting.


    Please do take care of yourself !


    (I've no doubt that Ralph highly values you as a participant here)
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 11-03-2020 at 12:08 PM.

  34. #34
    Denmark isn't socialist either. You would be free to start your own recording label in Denmark or Sweden and, if your music sold well enough, you could get wealthy from it.
    Last edited by calvin; 11-03-2020 at 02:07 PM.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by calvin View Post
    Denmark isn't socialist either.
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    I know very well how Denmark is. In addition to The Netherlands, I also live and work there. I also work some in Sweden. I know how those places are and how high taxes are, and what services we get back for them.

    My point was that those countries (as well as Canada) have systems that employ more socialistic elements than USA, and that THAT is not a bad thing, unlike what Circa1824 seemed to imply. And regardless of the comment above about Denmark's situation with The Covid-19 Virus, I know from personal experience and constant contact with friends and family there, that country is much, much, much safer than USA, related to The Virus for all people, but, especially for its most vulnerable groups (of which I am a member).
    Last edited by robb_k; 11-03-2020 at 02:15 PM.

  36. #36
    Sure you know how those countries are, I never doubted that. I'm just pointing out that they are not socialist - there's a great deal of private enterprise in those countries, that is, privately-owned companies that run on a profit motive, paying wages to their employees.

    I have a decent idea of how those countries are also. It was a long time ago, but I lived in Sweden at one point in the heydey of their welfare state (the 1980s). I've been back since then also, as I've lived in Europe (Germany and the UK) for the last 25 years. Sweden and Denmark are very nice countries and great places to live, I'm sure.

    I think the "Denmark is socialist" thing might have been started by Bernie Sanders in the 2016 primaries. He had long touted Venezuela under Chavez as a model of socialism but by 2016 Venezuela had collapsed. So, when asked in a debate to name a model socialist country, he said Denmark. I recall that the prime minister of Denmark came out publicly to respond that Denmark is not socialist.

    Sweden has gradually rolled back the government since I lived there, so apparently it was either unaffordable and/or many voters decided it had gone too far (I think it was both). I see that government spending as a percent of gdp in Sweden has fallen from around 70% circa 1990 to just below 50% in recent years, a huge change. By comparison, Germany is around 44% while France is around 55%. (Of course that is total government spending, not only social spending, so Sweden might still spend a higher % of its gdp than France socially, I don't know.)

    It's not all rosy, either - I understand from some friends that people in Sweden now often have long waits for medical care, as we do in the UK's NHS. Still, waiting is much better than not being able to afford care at all.

    Also, just to point out that high taxes and spending are not necessarily a requirement to have a great place to live, look at Switzerland. That's a very capitalistic country, very business friendly, with low taxes in many of the cantons - much lower than in the US. Still, they have universal health care and many studies cite their health care as being the best in Europe. They're doing very well in many other ways, too.
    Last edited by calvin; 11-03-2020 at 11:13 PM.

  37. #37
    Venezuela would be high up my list of countries not to visit, along with Belarus etc. But sadly the United States has moved pretty high up that list and I was a Hawaii regular.

  38. #38
    Hi!

    You keep forgetting one country

    https://www.cntraveler.com/gallery/t...s-in-the-world

    Best regards
    Heikki

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by fatmaninthethirdrow View Post
    Dont overlook the fact that here in the UK we suffered the dead hand of socialism from 1964 through 1970....Motown's Golden Years.

    Thank goodness That Motown Sound was around to keep us happy.

    And until the Socialists banned our beloved free Radio in 1967, we had the offshore pirate ships to play us soul goodies from the US.

    BTW if you Yanks think Biden is a socialist, you are living on a different planet! So get out and vote for him and restore some sanity to US Government.
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    THEY DOOOOOOO! That's precisely why they voted Trump back into power for another 4 years!

    They are very afraid of the Socialists (who they think are all Communists) who will take away all their money and make sure everyone will get affordable health care, and a decent level of education, and enough healthy food to stay alive, and have a roof over their heads and clothes to wear. They are afraid that there is not enough to go around, and by golly, they're going to keep all they earn, and not let big government take it away from them. Sickness to the extreme.

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by heikki View Post
    Hi!

    You keep forgetting one country

    https://www.cntraveler.com/gallery/t...s-in-the-world

    Best regards
    Heikki
    I spent a bit of time in Finland in the summers of 1984 and 1985, taking the boat over from Sweden to visit a friend who lives in Lapeenranta. Lovely country, but I have to admit that while my friend has visited me a few times since, I have not been back to Finland. Maybe I should do something about that when/if travel becomes more normal.
    Last edited by calvin; 11-04-2020 at 07:21 AM.

  41. #41
    Hi Calvin!

    That was great to hear. My wife is from Lappeenranta, so we visit the place quite often.
    Just let me know, when you're coming.

    Best regards
    Heikki

  42. #42
    The US actually HAD all of that while Motown was in Detroit before Republicans began tearing it all apart!

  43. #43
    Y'all are weird lol

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