Do You Know? Thelma vs Diana

**luke** · 04-09-2011, 02:30 PM

Maybe this has been covered here but not in my time. Did Thelma record Do You Know Where You're Going To, first? Was it going to be relased? How did Diana end up with it? I viewed Thelma doing it in a recent concert and it was great.

**copley** · 04-09-2011, 03:14 PM

I always get this story a bit mixed up. Thelma did indeed record 'Do You Know Where You're Going To' first in '73. The single only got released in New Zealand.

Now this is the fuzzy part. There follows a story from the UK Motown office circa '73/'74.

Motown UK were pretty much doing their own thing release-wise, about the time Thelma joined Motown. In the UK office there was a huge pile of Thelma's first recordings from which her UK album debut was going to be compiled. Amongst the songs was DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO which was a stand-out ballad and they planned to use it. The message then came from the USA that
Diana Ross wanted the song for herself, so Thelma's orginal version could not be released.

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**chestersong** · 04-09-2011, 03:26 PM

that is interesting to know. thanks for the story.

**brother_love** · 04-09-2011, 04:08 PM

Thelma was very hurt by this she really loved the song and the next thing she knew they had given it to Ross.

**tomato tom** · 04-09-2011, 04:10 PM

As one of Thelmas BIGGEST fans, I was NOT happy that Diana got the glory for this song. I STILL cant get hold of a copy of The Thelma ORIGINAL. Because Diana was making the Mahogany movie, Mr Gordy thought the song would be THE song to promote the film and his lover, sorry, I mean Motown movie star. Well, we all know about the fiasco with the academy/grammy awards for Ms Ross version. Dont get me wrong, I love the Diana version, but Thelma would have had a monster hit with this, im sure...Paulo xxxx

**chestersong** · 04-09-2011, 04:40 PM

so does thelma ever sing this song in concert today?

**milven** · 04-09-2011, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by chestersong

so does thelma ever sing this song in concert today?

Here is a clip of her singing it live a couple of years ago

**theboyfromxtown** · 04-09-2011, 05:08 PM

Thelma sung it for us at the Camden Cafe in London last year [[or was it the year before?)

A wonderful lady who has done a lot for gays at a time when it wasn't fashionable. God bless Thelma

**chestersong** · 04-09-2011, 05:14 PM

sounds like Diana's version. or should i say Diana sounds like Thelma's version!
i hear Diana got "the" release on "Love Hangover" and "Surrender" after the 5th Dimension recorded these songs?

**reese** · 04-09-2011, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by chestersong

sounds like Diana's version. or should i say Diana sounds like Thelma's version!
i hear Diana got "the" release on "Love Hangover" and "Surrender" after the 5th Dimension recorded these songs?

Diana released LOVE HANGOVER first, on her album "DIANA ROSS". But Motown decided to release I THOUGHT IT TOOK A LITTLE TIME as a single instead. Once the Fifth Dimension heard about this, they recorded and released their version of LOVE HANGOVER. At that time, one executive remembers a hastily-called Saturday promotion meeting, and Motown rush-released Diana's version as a single.

Not sure about SURRENDER. I never heard about the Fifth Dimension recording this one. I assumed it was an Ashford and Simpson original for Diana.

**luke** · 04-09-2011, 05:38 PM

Yes as I said above I viewed her singing it. It certainly would have added significant to her career to have another smash.

**chestersong** · 04-09-2011, 05:44 PM

yes it would have been great for her career. i have both "Love Hangover" and "Surrender" on bootleg by the 5th, but they rather pale to Diana's productions.

**luke** · 04-09-2011, 05:47 PM

Thelma has probably done as well as she has due to her incredible talent which is undiminished.

**reese** · 04-09-2011, 06:00 PM

In addition to being a great vocalist, Thelma is also a great entertainer. I've seen her in person a few times. It's just unfortunate that aside from DON'T LEAVE ME THIS WAY, most of her recordings haven't done well.

**BayouMotownMan** · 04-09-2011, 08:35 PM

Yea but Miss Thelma got revenge a few years later when Hal Davis used the bassline of Love Hangover on Don't Leave Me This Way. Diana turned her nose up on it and it was given to Thelma who rocked it all the way to No. 1

**brother_love** · 04-09-2011, 10:17 PM

Won a Grammy too!

**marv2** · 04-10-2011, 12:08 AM

That was great! I like Thelma Houston's version.

**gordy_hunk** · 04-10-2011, 03:01 PM

The 5th Dimension did indeed record 'surrender' but probably about 10 years after Diana's version was issued.

It was played [[occasionally) in night clubs, and the 12" disc is still in my collection [[even though I'm trying to sell all of my Motown albums).

It is very different to Diana's version - and is enjoyable.

**luke** · 04-10-2011, 03:07 PM

Was Thelma's version pulled in New Zealand?

**Kamasu_Jr** · 04-10-2011, 03:08 PM

Didn't someone from one of those reissue record labels post that it planned to reissue Thelma Houston's debut LP for Mowest... The US and UK versions? Maybe her version of Doy You Know....will be included.

**copley** · 04-10-2011, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by luke

Was Thelma's version pulled in New Zealand?

No Luke, it was actually released as you will see from the above scan. I know someone who has a copy.

**copley** · 04-10-2011, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Kamasu_Jr

Didn't someone from one of those reissue record labels post that it planned to reissue Thelma Houston's debut LP for Mowest... The US and UK versions? Maybe her version of Doy You Know....will be included.

Would be nice but don't think it will happen as it was on neither. Actually I'm beginning to wonder if the Thelma project will ever happen!

**captainjames** · 04-10-2011, 05:14 PM

Its there any record that this woman has recorded that was bad ? Hmmmm Nope.

**randy_russi** · 04-11-2011, 10:46 AM

As good as Thelma's recording might be she could only have had a hit with it if the company promoted it.

**copley** · 04-11-2011, 11:05 AM

That's not always so Randy. A case that comes to mind due to a recent discussion on MT is of Yvonne Fair having a top 5 UK hit with 'It Should Have Been Me'. Motown did SFA to promote it. There must be hundreds of similar instances.

**BayouMotownMan** · 04-11-2011, 09:30 PM

It was difficult for any artist to break out at Motown after the move to LA, mostly because Motown cut back on promotion of new artists and relied on the clubs and urban radio stations to "break" these songs simply because it was on Motown.

It was especially hard for a female artist to break out at Motown because of Diana Ross. No one could top the queen. She was the preferred artist. But when she and BG fell on bad times after the Mahogany fiasco, we started seeing female artists break out as one hit wonders in an attempt to punish Ross back into his control. Thelma got Don't Leave Me because Diana, quite temperamental at that time, didn't like it. Much of what was recorded on High Inergy's first lp was intended for Ross and she turned her nose up at these tracks, the result being their first hit You Can't Turn Me Off. Most female signings...Leslie Uggams, Diahann Carroll, Rose Banks, Stephanie Mills, did one lp, a few failed singles, then left.

Teena Marie emerged from this only when Ross bolted in 1981. Lady T did fine with Epic, but I have always felt that if she had worked out her differences with Motown [[of course being about money) she would have wound up an even bigger star than she was.

In the 80s it was clear that Gordy had lost his pulse on what was happening in the music industry. Vanity was a beautiful woman but a very limited vocalist. He signed her and spent untold amounts promoting her to be his next Diana Ross. He gave up and sold Motown shortly after.

**randy_russi** · 04-12-2011, 09:59 AM

Well, I was referring to having a hit in the U.S. With no promotion by the company there would be no airplay and very
few people would ever be aware of a record regardless of how good it is.

**BayouMotownMan** · 04-12-2011, 07:36 PM

I totally agree Randy. There were so many tracks from that era that should have hit bigger. Brian Holland did this song on Thelma Houston "I Can't Go On Without Your Love" which was definitely a hit had Motown jumped on it. High Inergy's "He's A Pretender" should have hit. The lp Rich Love Poor Love by Syreeta and GC Cameron was beautiful, but Motown put nothing into it even though it must have been expensive to produce given the number of musicians on it. Motown seemed to concentrate on the three or four acts that were hitting big rather then push the little guy some more to get them up and going. So many lost gems. I remember this song "T.L.C." by P.J. that I never get tired of listening to even still, it should have been a hit