Questions about Lynda,Scherrie & Susaye

[jim aka jtigre99]

I remember reading in Mary's book Supreme Faith that they were touring as the Supremes yet had no contract with Motown. She indicated that Motown was angry that she hired Scherrie on her own yet since they had no contract that none of them were Supremes. I know when Cindy decided to leave the first time she was pregnant and that Stevie Wonder's backup singer Sundray Tucker was seen and that she auditioned and brought her sister Lynda[[also in Stevie's group) to audition and that Jean and Mary liked Lynda and they chose her. Was this Motown who was part of the process or the group? Did it make it okay because Lynda was already in a Motown group and Scherrie wasn't? I was just wondering of the differences with their becoming a Supreme. How did Motown feel about Lynda as a Supreme? I know Mary wrote that Cholly Atkins[[who Lynda rehearsed with prior to becoming a Supreme) was telling her people were talking about Lynda saying she was too bossy. Also, when Cindy was replaced by Susaye Mary said her husband said he had heard her and she was a great singer. I think I read that he may have told her she was going to be the lead singer. What did Motown think of Susaye, who was also in Stevie's Wonderlove group? Did they think anything about her replacing Cindy? Later, after Mary left and was performing that South American tour that Scherrie & Susaye did not go on she recruited Cindy Birdsong and Debbie Sharpe. Mary wrote that promoters were upset in getting only 2 out of 3 "real" Supremes since both her and Cindy were still under contract to Motown as Supremes. So, was Cindy still under contract to Motown as a Supreme while Mary, Scherrie and Susaye were under contract to Motown as Supremes as well? I remember reading before Mary, Scherrie and Cindy were signed as the Supremes that Scherrie & Cindy were basically working for Mary under the corporation Supremes, Inc. Does that mean that Scherrie, Cindy and Susaye all had dual contracts-both with Motown and Mary's Supremes Inc? I know there are a number of people on here who can probably answer this for me as I became curious.

[marybrewster]

I guess the same can be asked about the Vandellas. Martha has stated that Lois and Sandy were employees of hers. But I find it hard to believe that neither would have had a contract at Motown.

[TYK1986]

Wasn't Sandy already employed by Motown? She was a Velvelette before she joined the Vandellas.

[jim aka jtigre99]

I remember reading or hearing that Martha employed them because she preferred not being on the road alone, plus if they were her employees than they wouldn't have much say as a group which was somewhat different for the Supremes initially in the 1960's and in the 1970's. I wonder how they had dual contracts, as well. If someone was already with the company it must have made it easier to move them from one group to another like Dennis Edwards from the Contours to the Temptations. That is why I questioned the difference between Lynda and Susaye compared to Scherrie, as far as the record company was concerned. I think Mary said in her book starting with Jean that they were basically solo contracts within the framework of the group-they were subletting so that didn't have the same group spirit if each of the contracts for all members were the same yet Mary also said that signed to her they all had agreed upon percentages yet when she contacted Lynda she wanted a full one third financial share of the group and extra concessions for singing solo songs which Mary felt was unrealistic. I think Mary, as an original, may have had a higher percentage but that she was also filtering money into the group and that when she left she had personally lent the group enterprise money and that she would be kissing that goodbye-which is something the other members were not doing.

[blackguy69]

If I’m correct Diana, Mary and Flo signed their initial contracts in 61 and again in 65. Flo was fired in 67 and was released from her contact in 68. Cindy must have signed her temporary contract in 67 because in 69 she signed again with Diana and Mary. Jean signed her solo contract in 69 with the intent to join the Supremes. Lynda is a different story. According to her she signed a solo contract sometime in late 1971 but wasn’t chosen to be a Supreme until mid March 1972. Scherrie signed her contract with Mary and Cindy signed theirs around May 1974. I’m guessing Susaye signed hers around February 1976. I think Cindy was never released from her initial contract making it easy for her to come back.

I remember reading or hearing that Martha employed them because she preferred not being on the road alone, plus if they were her employees than they wouldn't have much say as a group which was somewhat different for the Supremes initially in the 1960's and in the 1970's. I wonder how they had dual contracts, as well. If someone was already with the company it must have made it easier to move them from one group to another like Dennis Edwards from the Contours to the Temptations. That is why I questioned the difference between Lynda and Susaye compared to Scherrie, as far as the record company was concerned. I think Mary said in her book starting with Jean that they were basically solo contracts within the framework of the group-they were subletting so that didn't have the same group spirit if each of the contracts for all members were the same yet Mary also said that signed to her they all had agreed upon percentages yet when she contacted Lynda she wanted a full one third financial share of the group and extra concessions for singing solo songs which Mary felt was unrealistic. I think Mary, as an original, may have had a higher percentage but that she was also filtering money into the group and that when she left she had personally lent the group enterprise money and that she would be kissing that goodbye-which is something the other members were not doing.

[blackguy69]

I can see that if they never recorded. But since they did, must’ve been also signed to Motown.

I guess the same can be asked about the Vandellas. Martha has stated that Lois and Sandy were employees of hers. But I find it hard to believe that neither would have had a contract at Motown.

[marybrewster]

Wasn't Sandy already employed by Motown? She was a Velvelette before she joined the Vandellas.

You're right. I think she was a Velvelette from 66 to 69, then a Vandella from 69 on.

But wasn't she more of just a touring artist in the Velvelettes? I don't know if they recorded anything while she was in the group. I know they didn't release any singles during that time.

If she did have a contract, I wonder if there was a bump. Obviously going from the Vels to the Vans was a step up.

[reese]

You're right. I think she was a Velvelette from 66 to 69, then a Vandella from 69 on.

But wasn't she more of just a touring artist in the Velvelettes? I don't know if they recorded anything while she was in the group. I know they didn't release any singles during that time.

If she did have a contract, I wonder if there was a bump. Obviously going from the Vels to the Vans was a step up.

Not sure how much Sandy recorded with the Velvelettes. But on one of the recent collections, there was a Sandy lead because she had expressed the desire to do so.

[blackguy69]

We talked about this before Sandy did lead vocals on We Got A Honey Lovev

Not sure how much Sandy recorded with the Velvelettes. But on one of the recent collections, there was a Sandy lead because she had expressed the desire to do so.

[sup_fan]

all 9 of the ladies did [[at some point) sign contracts with motown. my understanding is that starting with Jean, the new ladies signed solo contracts and were "placed" in the supremes.

when J and L left, i'm pretty sure motown was assuming the group would disband. even though they still had a few dates scheduled in the fall, motown could have easily sent some other group if they had to. or just cancel the gig.

when mary asked Cindy to come back [[and yes i believe you're right - she never was released in 72) and then brought in Scherrie, motown wasn't happy. Bayou has posted some very interesting comments about the group which i'll try to summarize. the act was VERY expensive - gowns, studio time, tours, musicians, etc. and while motown would EVENTUALLY be reimbursed from sales, it was they who made the initial expenditure. and with the declining sales of the group, breaking even wasn't a given.

plus as we've mentioned on here many times, the sups were out of step by 73 with public interest and appeal. you had Diana doing movies, marvin and stevie were self-contained groups, new signings coming on, Smokey going solo. so at this point, why bother in some old relic?

I've heard that Mary reached out to Berry for sympathy and to keep the group on the roster. She really had no other options. she couldn't reform the group elsewhere. no other labels were interested in signing her as a solo. she didn't have any other career paths to explore. Plus MSC were still touring and bringing in money, especially internationally. So Berry finally acquiesced and got the group to resign. then we get into contract delays because 1) mary was trying to get the copywrite for the group name and 2) scherrie was signed to Invictus