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  1. #1
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    The underrated Scherrie Payne

    I am expressing an opinion that I feel that Scherrie Payne is completely underrated as a lead singer and Supreme. This forum has a lot of people express opinions on how great they feel Diana Ross, Jean Terrell, Florence Ballard and Mary Wilson are-and rightly so- they are all great. Somehow Scherrie is disregarded in the mix. Yes, when Jean replaced Diana she had a voice that was distinctive and added her own sound to the lead. Many feel Florence and Mary were overlooked and should have sang lead more with Florence's loud and strong voice and Mary's tone and ballad mastery. Still, I see many say once Jean left that they quit following the group as they became something other than the Supremes. I don't agree with that. Yes, I loved the fact that Mary was finally sharing leads and coming into her own but Scherrie's talent and contributions seem overlooked and underrated. Scherrie, in fact, has hit the Billboard charts more than any other Supreme as a solo artist except for Diana. Scherrie had the loud and strong voice like Florence, yet she had more control, mastery and a better way with a lyric. She also had a similar tone to Mary, note how they sound quite similar on You're What's Missing in my Life. Plus, Scherrie was very pretty, glamorous and quite adept at choreography. She joined the group after 2 lead singers, but had her own style and sound. She was far more different from Diana than Jean was and was different from Jean. I feel everyone who wanted Florence as a lead singer had someone similar when Scherrie was in the group. Her voice, looks, talent even continue to this day in the FLOs. I don't think Scherrie is given her due. She actually excited me as a fan because I felt such hope, she had such a fire and spark when she joined that seemed to be missing when Cindy left the first time. You may not agree with me, but you have to give Scherrie her due.She was and is amazing.

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    I always liked Scherrie as vocalist. Quite often, I've actually liked her voice more than the material she was singing.

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    I like a lot of her material that she sang when with the Glass House and the partners LP with Susaye. She also did some nice recordings after that. Still trying to make a list of all her recordings year by year. I think Scherrie had a lot more charisma than Jean and seemed far more confident while on stage. But the Supremes were not doing very well by the time Scherrie joined. I guess I'll miss the man and Bad Weather both didn't do very well and the gap year without any recording didn't do them any good either. I wonder how much Scherrie had to say about what they were going to record or what they were going to perform. I think Scherrie [[and Susaye) is far more creative then any of the other Supremes. And I agree that Scherrie is underrated.

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    I was immediately impressed with Scherrie's voice and thought It's All Been Said Before was by far the best track on Supremes [[1975). I was further impressed to find she was the lead vocal on Glass House's Crumbs Off The Table. Diana and Jean were more distinctive singers but Scherrie, imo, is the most impressive Supremes lead. The Supremes, unfortunately, were passé by 1975. Still, I thought It's All Been Said Before could have been a hit and I was very hopeful for the Supremes with the High Energy album. Scherrie also seems to be an impressive person and deserves recognition and respect.

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    completely agree. if you were to judge each singer based mostly on their technical singing skills, she is at the very top along with Jean. Susaye is very very close behind. All three of these women have vocal capabilities far beyond anything any of the originals could do

    but please note that i'm NOT saying the originals aren't talented. Diana was a good singer, a very good interpreter of lyrics and an amazing entertainer. Whereas Jean was an amazing vocalist, a very good interpreter of lyrics and an ok entertainer. My initial statement is solely looking at their vocals

    Scherrie was never really given the opportunity to shine within the group that she so deserved. some of the best material was on Sup 75 [[surprisingly) and produced by Ivey Woodford. Color and Cant' Stop are not just among the best things from the Scherrie era but rank up there as truly excellent recordings. ok maybe they're not the perfect masterpiece of You Can't Hurry Love, reflections or Stoned Love but they are as good IMO as I'm gonna make you love me or my world is empty.

    once they started working with the Hollands, the guys did seem to know how to best utilize Scherrie. she leads some huge dancetracks - these songs have massive backing tracks and relentlessly barrel ahead. and her voice literally pierces through everything and her vocal works enliven the song.

    it is a shame though that she wasn't offered more of a range of material. we get some hints and her non-dancefloor work with Sweet Dream Machine. You're what's missing offers another style and tone. but imagine her on Don't let my teardrops or Come into my life or we should be closer together. not that i don't like the other singers on these but it would be amazing to hear her on some big ballads

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim aka jtigre99 View Post
    I am expressing an opinion that I feel that Scherrie Payne is completely underrated as a lead singer and Supreme. This forum has a lot of people express opinions on how great they feel Diana Ross, Jean Terrell, Florence Ballard and Mary Wilson are-and rightly so- they are all great. Somehow Scherrie is disregarded in the mix. Yes, when Jean replaced Diana she had a voice that was distinctive and added her own sound to the lead. Many feel Florence and Mary were overlooked and should have sang lead more with Florence's loud and strong voice and Mary's tone and ballad mastery. Still, I see many say once Jean left that they quit following the group as they became something other than the Supremes. I don't agree with that. Yes, I loved the fact that Mary was finally sharing leads and coming into her own but Scherrie's talent and contributions seem overlooked and underrated. Scherrie, in fact, has hit the Billboard charts more than any other Supreme as a solo artist except for Diana. Scherrie had the loud and strong voice like Florence, yet she had more control, mastery and a better way with a lyric. She also had a similar tone to Mary, note how they sound quite similar on You're What's Missing in my Life. Plus, Scherrie was very pretty, glamorous and quite adept at choreography. She joined the group after 2 lead singers, but had her own style and sound. She was far more different from Diana than Jean was and was different from Jean. I feel everyone who wanted Florence as a lead singer had someone similar when Scherrie was in the group. Her voice, looks, talent even continue to this day in the FLOs. I don't think Scherrie is given her due. She actually excited me as a fan because I felt such hope, she had such a fire and spark when she joined that seemed to be missing when Cindy left the first time. You may not agree with me, but you have to give Scherrie her due.She was and is amazing.
    Scherrie was and remains a quite magnificent vocalist. It still pisses me to this very day that she was under utlised as a Supreme. Sure she got many of the leads, but it is little short of criminal that she did not do the major lead on "He's my man" and "Early morning love". Her voice was perfectly suited to those songs, and i am convinced her more forceful lead vocals could have made "He's my man" a major comeback hit. Sup Fan perfectly described Mary's lead on "He's my man" as "sleepy". It was way too understated and kind of held back the impact of what was a very decent song. Follow this with "it's all been said before" or even make that the lead single, and then maybe "colour my world blue" and you had all the ingredients for a successful Re-birth for the group.
    Scherrie was a natural on stage. She was beautiful and charismatic, and it made perfect sense to me to have her as the focal point of the new line up. Give Mary some album tracks by all means, but don't undersell your best asset. Such a wasted opportunity.
    Scherrie was my 3rd favorite Supreme after Diana and Jean, and i love her to this very day despite losing interest in the group due to overfocusing on Mary.

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    haha Bluebrock - i think i actually stole "sleep" from your description of HMM, which i thought was just spot on! lol

    i completely agree that in revamping the Supremes in 1974, breaking out of the old structure of 1 lead and 2 backgrounds was warranted. the old formula was just that - old. so to re-energize the group, something new and fresh was necessary. IMO the lead duties should have been 60% scherrie, 35% Mary and Cindy doing some occasion things and some group leads. Mary was and is a talented singer but at the time, her range was more limited that it is today. Mary was great on many ballads and also on some of the mid tempo work like Can We Love Again, You're What's MIssing and Sweet Dream Machine. I don't think that the approach of ballad = Mary and fast = Scherrie works. allow them each to stretch and grow a bit. but Bluebrock is right - you have a major talent and it justified being the focal point

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    I'm working on a list of Scherrie's recording, including glass house and solo etc. I find it sad to know she only recorded around 22 songs, with the Supremes, on which she sings lead. I might be wrong about the amount but of those 22 some are shared with Mary and Susaye so singing complete lead is even less. She was with the Supremes for roughly 3 years and 8 months. I know there were contract issues in late '73 and '74 but still. Jean recorded loads and loads in the first year and I think even double the amount Scherrie recorded during her whole tenure. Scherrie seems to had a lot more input while with Glass House. She was co-writer on a lot of the songs. Bluerock is right, in my opinion. Scherrie was a wasted oppertunity. I wonder where she would have led the Supremes is she was given more freedom in creativity, style and performance. I like some of Mary's leads and the ballads were a great way to show off her talents but the rest of the songs were better suited for Scherrie.
    Last edited by TYK1986; 10-01-2020 at 02:10 PM.

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    the songwriting capabilities is a whole other aspect that was overlooked. of course motown was notorious for being very chauvinistic when it came to songwriting and producing. still we had Pam and Gloria doing a lot in the 70s. even Katherine Anderson of the Marvelettes did a little.

    If Scherrie [[and later Susaye) had been given this opportunity, i would wonder if some of the tunes from Partners would have ended up on a subsequent Supremes disc. IMO the Partners album is a bit disjointed but some of them could have been used as a foundation for a separate Supremes album and then build it out from there

    Also Scherrie composed a musical Ten Good Years from which Another Life From Now was taken. i'm not familiar with the overall plot of the show but if i remember right from an interview she gave, it's about the idea of a relationship having 10 good years and then starting to crumble. Imagine if MSS did a version [[a la Funny Girl) where they recorded and performed the score!

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    Don't forget Valerie Simpson. I don't know what the reason was for that Scherrie was not involved in writing anything for the Supremes. Was it Motown or was it Mary and Pedro or maybe she just didn't have the time while performing and recording? I like most of the song on the Partners album and gives an idea how the Supremes might have evolved if the girls were given the choice to write for themselves. I would have chosen "I found another love" as single. I think that song worked well with both Scherrie and Susaye on lead.

    I will need to look that musical up. Didn't even know that.
    Last edited by TYK1986; 10-01-2020 at 05:43 PM.

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    I have a feeling that even if Scherrie was doing 60% of the leads they would still be in the same position. Minus He’s My Man, Scherrie sang all of the A sides with moderate to dismal results.

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    don't disagree that simply changing lead singers would have solved all of the problems. There was simply too much mismanagement of the group and turmoil. Also there just really seemed to be a total lack of strategic plan.

    Think back to the start of the DRATS era. heck - it actually probably started a year or two prior. Berry and Diana were mapping out every step and carefully considering every option. Actually Berry was probably doing most of it but Diana was certainly highly involved. they looked at different creative outlets and opportunities, different styles, etc because they knew they had to go from Point A to Point B. And they laid out the appropriate strategy to do just that

    Mary and Pedro were attempting to take Mary solo too, sort of launch her like Diana was launched. But they never seemed to ever focus on what different things could and would enable that.

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    You keep saying that Pedro was trying to launch Mary into a solo career but that’s not what was showing. If that was the case then more of the Mary led tracks would have been released and she would have been doing at least 75 % of the leads in their live shows.
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    don't disagree that simply changing lead singers would have solved all of the problems. There was simply too much mismanagement of the group and turmoil. Also there just really seemed to be a total lack of strategic plan.

    Think back to the start of the DRATS era. heck - it actually probably started a year or two prior. Berry and Diana were mapping out every step and carefully considering every option. Actually Berry was probably doing most of it but Diana was certainly highly involved. they looked at different creative outlets and opportunities, different styles, etc because they knew they had to go from Point A to Point B. And they laid out the appropriate strategy to do just that

    Mary and Pedro were attempting to take Mary solo too, sort of launch her like Diana was launched. But they never seemed to ever focus on what different things could and would enable that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackguy69 View Post
    You keep saying that Pedro was trying to launch Mary into a solo career but that’s not what was showing. If that was the case then more of the Mary led tracks would have been released and she would have been doing at least 75 % of the leads in their live shows.
    In the UK Early morning love was chosen as the follow up to He's my man and was one of only two Supremes singles to completely missed the UK top 100 chart. It was a very decent song, and i am convinced it would have worked better with a stronger lead vocal, but of course we will never know for sure.

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    I would love to hear Scherrie singing Early morning love. For me it's not who was singing lead as I like both Mary and Scherrie's voice. Some songs were better suited for Mary and some for Scherrie. What I don't like was their new revamped show after Jean left. I don't know if it's still online but their 1975 UK, I think it was Manchester but do correct me if I'm wrong, was not to my liking especially the dream thing where they imitated Marilyn Monroe, Josephine Baker and Bessie Smith. I love their Love train performance in Japan which I think was better than when Jean, Mary and Lynda sang it live. Scherrie, Mary and Cindy were blending better than any 70's supremes line-up.

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    You get no argument with me on Scherrie Payne. I thank Jean for her contributions to the group but I always felt Jean was more of a solo performer than group. Also, I wonder what could of happen if Scherrie had replaced Diana instead of Jean. I've heard Scherrie tackle some of the "Jean" material and I am always like WOW !!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackguy69 View Post
    You keep saying that Pedro was trying to launch Mary into a solo career but that’s not what was showing. If that was the case then more of the Mary led tracks would have been released and she would have been doing at least 75 % of the leads in their live shows.
    Mary specifically discusses the idea that as she reformed the Sups with S and C, that she was preparing for the idea of the eventual disbandment of the group. While obviously all groups have a lifespan, that's a pretty telling comment that she did not necessarily go into this with the idea that this grouping or that her involvement with the supremes was to be ongoing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TYK1986 View Post
    I would love to hear Scherrie singing Early morning love. For me it's not who was singing lead as I like both Mary and Scherrie's voice. Some songs were better suited for Mary and some for Scherrie. What I don't like was their new revamped show after Jean left. I don't know if it's still online but their 1975 UK, I think it was Manchester but do correct me if I'm wrong, was not to my liking especially the dream thing where they imitated Marilyn Monroe, Josephine Baker and Bessie Smith. I love their Love train performance in Japan which I think was better than when Jean, Mary and Lynda sang it live. Scherrie, Mary and Cindy were blending better than any 70's supremes line-up.
    i read recently about GEoffrey Holder's background. I knew a little about him but not specifics. he was VERY heavy in a broadway background. So his being selected to revamp the Supremes' show definitely lead to a more "broadway" style package. While i give them credit for trying something new, i don't know that this was the best idea. it didn't push the group into something new and fresh.

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    I don't want to be harsh but it was too corny and Vegashy. I think during that specific show they hardly sang any of the known hits [[I think just a quick medley) and only a few of their songs from their latest album. Mary had Early Morning love and He's my man shared with Scherrie. The medley was a hot mess. Scherrie sounds like a duck singing Love child. Not her fault as the pace is far too fast for her, just too fast for anyone, to sing it good. There's roof on the top is quite similar to Love child and she sounds fantastic on that song. As for singing Bad Weather in Japan Scherrie sang is great and I think even better than Jean. She added something to the song.
    Last edited by TYK1986; 10-02-2020 at 12:15 PM.

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    She said even before Scherrie was picked that the group would evolve around her more so because she is the only constant one there and the public wanted consistency. If she to do an a la Ross, she would have picked someone just to sing background and she would do the whole lead. As you know Mary wanted the full lead when discussing it with Smokey. But Motown didn’t think she could handle the full lead but guaranteed her half. Enter Scherrie. Personally I think Mary never wanted to leave but Pedro said otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Mary specifically discusses the idea that as she reformed the Sups with S and C, that she was preparing for the idea of the eventual disbandment of the group. While obviously all groups have a lifespan, that's a pretty telling comment that she did not necessarily go into this with the idea that this grouping or that her involvement with the supremes was to be ongoing.

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    Scherrie Payne was like a tornado hitting the group after Jean....after Frank Wilsons involvement with the group ended, the material lacked bite, and Terrell's always marvelous, laid back style wasn't stylish was becoming a MOR bore....and Bad Weather which was a change may be a fan favorite..but no one I've ever to this day played it for ever liked it.
    Mary was always my favorite Supreme to watch...Vocally, she seemed to always be recorded sounding very limited and compressed...even on the '75 LP. She was however making great strides as a live vocalist and lead singer. Almost everyone who saw her live from the 80's including those familiar with the Sup's catalogue is amazed by her depth, range and showmanship...this sound [[With the glaring exception of YOU DANCED MY HEART AROUND THE STARS that remained unreleased) was not heard on record til DON'T GET MAD GET EVEN and Walk The Line. Had her "sleepy" [[and I agree that's a good term) vocals on the JT/SP duets been more exciting things would have sounded better.
    I was happy to see Cindy return..I immediately recognized her after Sonny Bono introduced the group in the ALL I WANT performance...since I became a fan after FLO left, to me M&C were the Supreme's...I am among those who thought the departure of Cindy hurt the group, added to the anonymous "employment agency" image.. I expected Mary [[who looked gorgeous!...they all did...without the oversized stiff or too short wigs) to sing lead...and WHO is the very pretty, good moving short one???
    That 3 part lead blew me away...great too see Cindy get a full share lead. And I had to find out more about the short one....Right On! mag did a small pic of the 3 draping furs and looking very modern saying "the Supremes have found a real good thing in the form of Scherrie Payne"..it was way too long a wait for a LP. Even a die hard like myself got overtired of waiting. I liked the '75 LP...it was a bit of a stretch into too many styles, but it was something...HIGH ENERGY was much more on target and together. Great LP...one problem....Cindy, who sounded better than ever with Mary here was once again gone. MSC were the most pleasant sounding, well balanced, comfortable looking grouping of Supremes IMHO.
    I believe that talentwise, Scherrie stood the best chance of a major attention solo career of any Supreme...alongside DR.

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    Like the song choice or not but Scherrie looked stunning during that performance of All I want. I think after Diana, Scherrie had the most natural charisma. From reading books, hearing stories, interviews and reading stuff on the forum it seems that Scherrie was the easiest of all the Supremes to work with. I like how you mention Bad weather too Gman. Like I said Scherrie did a fantastic performance, of the song, when they were in Japan. She added something, for me, that was missing when Jean sang it. Although Jean did a better version when she sang it on Soul train than the actual recording.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackguy69 View Post
    She said even before Scherrie was picked that the group would evolve around her more so because she is the only constant one there and the public wanted consistency. If she to do an a la Ross, she would have picked someone just to sing background and she would do the whole lead. As you know Mary wanted the full lead when discussing it with Smokey. But Motown didn’t think she could handle the full lead but guaranteed her half. Enter Scherrie. Personally I think Mary never wanted to leave but Pedro said otherwise.
    that's a very valid point - it might have been Pedro pushing solo more than mary. i def think that all in all, he was a real problem with the group. without his meddling, things might have been very different

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    Scherrie is underestimated by whom? I personally feel she is probably the greatest female singer ever at Motown. No qualifiers. She could hold a stage with ANYBODY, including Aretha, Ann Wilson, Whitney, Patti--whomever.

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    By no one. I think it's more about that Scherrie often gets omitted when they, people in general, talk about the Supremes. Discussion and topics always revolve around Diana, Mary and Florence and occasionally Jean. Nothing wrong with that because they were after all the classic line-up. Scherrie is a great singer and performer. She seemed far more confident when on stage than Jean. Does Mary in general mention Scherrie at all when she gets interviewed. Not a question to start an argument just in case lol.

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    The public, in general, focuses on the original trio as do many members of the forum. They will also talk about Jean, sometimes Cindy[[who's contributions are also not recognized as much). Many people here state they stopped following the group when Jean left, and i feel that is their loss. Scherrie was and is a dynamic talent, the last 2 groupings were wonderful. I do recall Mary mentioning that if she ever got together with Diana that Cindy is too ill to round out the trio and I heard her say, well there is always Scherrie. Mary has seemed to socialize with Scherrie the most of the former Supremes. I have seen some You Tube videos where they are together and Mary is a very good friend of Scherrie's sister, Freda Payne. When interviewed Mary focuses the most on the original trio and sometimes mentions Jean or Cindy, rarely Scherrie. I think she is superfocused on the original trio for a number of reasons. Mary wrote in her book that in terms of talent and personality that had she stayed in the group that Scherrie was the best one to carry on with in terms of talent and personality.

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    It is their loss indeed. But then again they might not like her voice anyway. I like all almost all the songs they recorded post Jean. The general public generally just knows them as the Supremes and or Diana Ross so it might be difficult to even explain to them who is who and what they sang. I mentioned once that Stoned Love was one of my all time favourite songs and my work colleague said: "Is that by Diana Ross?". I didn't reply lol. Another time I mentioned Mary Wilson and a mate thought I was talking about Mari Wilson, a singer from the UK.

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    I used to tell people Scherrie was "Secret Weapon #7"...the 7th Supreme...she was actually #8...but most people don't give a damn the group was a quartet for a short and unsuccessful period early on. It would rather Cindy stayed and have Susaye perhaps be a guest performer. Her sharp, soaring style vocal ability threw the group image too far into the 3 solo performer "free for all" deep end....With MSC the Vegasy holdover style was the big issue LIVE...the blend was always smooth.. I had a problem with both the tone and image of the last unit's LIVE and TV work...even the lip-synched video's and ST/AB performances....the glaring exception being WALK AWAY with Udo...that worked.

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    Yes Susaye is a great singer and I like her added vocals to I'm gonna let my heart do the walking. The all 3 being lead seemed to have worked for the pointer sisters so not so sure if that was really the problem. But there must be a blend when one sings lead and two sing background and I think that blend was missing especially during live performances with the last line-up. I too would have rather Cindy stayed and wish they could have worked, whatever problems there were, out. Just wondering what the name of the last album would have been instead of Mary Scherrie and Susaye.

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    Susaye added so much to that final album, i really don’t think it would have sounded nearly so good without her. I consider “Closer Together” one of the finest new Supremes recordings ever. As regards vocal blending as a group, Cindy’s voice probably worked better in live performances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim aka jtigre99 View Post
    The public, in general, focuses on the original trio as do many members of the forum. They will also talk about Jean, sometimes Cindy[[who's contributions are also not recognized as much). Many people here state they stopped following the group when Jean left, and i feel that is their loss. Scherrie was and is a dynamic talent, the last 2 groupings were wonderful. I do recall Mary mentioning that if she ever got together with Diana that Cindy is too ill to round out the trio and I heard her say, well there is always Scherrie. Mary has seemed to socialize with Scherrie the most of the former Supremes. I have seen some You Tube videos where they are together and Mary is a very good friend of Scherrie's sister, Freda Payne. When interviewed Mary focuses the most on the original trio and sometimes mentions Jean or Cindy, rarely Scherrie. I think she is superfocused on the original trio for a number of reasons. Mary wrote in her book that in terms of talent and personality that had she stayed in the group that Scherrie was the best one to carry on with in terms of talent and personality.
    yeah it seems of all the living supremes, Mary is in the most contact today with Scherrie. Cindy is obviously too ill. Diana, Jean and Lynda have no real relationship with mary any longer. and not necessarily trying to stir up the old stories of the conflicts. they all just seem to be doing their own things and not involving themselves with Mary.

    Scherrie of course is Freda's sister and Freda and mary are close friends. so not surprising they interact some.

    As for Susaye, again i think her life [[professionally and personally) just doesn't involve much interaction with Mary. Not sure if there's much relationship or not. mary made some pretty strong comments in Sup Faith about Susaye. The only thing i've ever heard from Susaye regarding this was on a Midnight Johnny interview and she simply said that she NEVER would simply deviate from a routine or rehearsed part as that would be the height of unprofessional. otherwise she made no comment and threw no mud. She's a beautifully classy lady

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Susaye added so much to that final album, i really don’t think it would have sounded nearly so good without her. I consider “Closer Together” one of the finest new Supremes recordings ever. As regards vocal blending as a group, Cindy’s voice probably worked better in live performances.

    agreed - the entire MS&S album is spectacular. the productions are just excellent as are the vocals. each lady contributes greatly to the overall and everyone shines

    as we're said many times, it's a shame there wasn't a follow up album

    and it's a shame that more effort wasn't made to bring the studio magic to the stage. of course we're judging this via a slew of multi-generation bootlegs so who knows really just how they sounded live. there's surely some distortion on these ancient and worn tapes and digitized vhs clips. still that excuse can only go so far

    typically the 3 mics were way off in terms of their levels. mary's is WAY too loud and Scherrie's is usually too low. the pace is too fast and the ad libs get out of control

    I've listened to their live LYG clips a bunch. in the studio version, there's an echo effect with they sing Let Yourself Goooooooo. Live, they can't really replicate this so i guess that's why they all would ad lib Go, Go, Go Go! but it would have frankly just been better to skip that. Also for the live versions they typically did much of the choreography which just left them breathless. I do like a lot of their choreography from this era but maybe just for the lip synced versions

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    3 obvious problems plagued every 70's unit on TV Live: the frantic racetrack pace, the blaring studio orchestra horns, the lack of sufficient additional percussion and strings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    yeah it seems of all the living supremes, Mary is in the most contact today with Scherrie. Cindy is obviously too ill. Diana, Jean and Lynda have no real relationship with mary any longer. and not necessarily trying to stir up the old stories of the conflicts. they all just seem to be doing their own things and not involving themselves with Mary.

    Scherrie of course is Freda's sister and Freda and mary are close friends. so not surprising they interact some.

    As for Susaye, again i think her life [[professionally and personally) just doesn't involve much interaction with Mary. Not sure if there's much relationship or not. mary made some pretty strong comments in Sup Faith about Susaye. The only thing i've ever heard from Susaye regarding this was on a Midnight Johnny interview and she simply said that she NEVER would simply deviate from a routine or rehearsed part as that would be the height of unprofessional. otherwise she made no comment and threw no mud. She's a beautifully classy lady
    Perhaps i should not be saying this on a public forum but i do recall Diana describing Scherrie as "a lovely girl", and i had no reason whatsoever to disbelieve that she meant it. I don't think they are close friends, but there does appear to be some genuine affection there on Diana's part.

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    I just re-watched Mary, Cindy and another lady singing Let yourself go after the Supremes officially disbanded in 1977. I think it was in Chile. The pace seems a bit slower and although I don't like Mary's voice on Let yourself go the blend between Mary, Cindy and the other lady [[sorry don't know who she is) is very good. I do think the slightly slower pace would have worked better for Scherrie Live. The live performance on Merv Griffin wasn't very good. Their dance routine was mostly out of sync and Scherrie's mic seemed to softer then both Mary's and Susaye's. It's a shame because she sounds fantastic on the recorded version.

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    yeah i've seen that clip too. it is a bit tamed down which definitely helps

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    I think it also didn't help that they performed in front of a frozen audience on Merv Griffin lol. I think Let yourself go, driving wheel, I'm gonna let my heart etc would be great if they were played in front of an dancing audience or at least where they are allowed to move. The backing track also sounded a bit weak.

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    or if they performed on a show a bit more hip than Merv. Like Midnight Special

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    Regarding who likes who, I can honestly say that in all my years of following Motown celebs, I have never heard one person talk badly about Scherrie Payne. Not once. In fact, I have a friend who is great friends with her and he told me she is about the nicest person on the planet. Her undeniable talent is not even open to debate. What astounds me about Scherrie, however, is why she never did any Broadway shows or even off Broadway plays. She has always had the pipes and "it factor" to grab a role! Maybe she didn't want to--who knows? I think it would have helped Scherrie if she had been more forceful, personality-wise. She always seems to kind of hang back--even today in the Flos. When Jean was with the Flos, she clearly seemed like the leader, at least to me, but Scherrie never seemed to really step out front, even in the Supremes. Maybe she's just a perpetual team player type

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    i too have heard from many sources that she is just a wonderful and sweet person.

    when did Scherrie start her family?

    broadway is a VERY different endeavor from singing and being a stage performer. having the talent to be a recording artist by no means qualifies you for stage work.

    Scherrie was obviously still doing Sup stuff through mid 77. not sure what they were doing for the remainder of the year. Partners was recorded in 78/79 so she would have been writing and doing that. her musical Ten Good Years came out around this time too.

    she did a lot with doing background vocals and guest work. like James Ingram's It's Your Night album in 83, Billy Preston's Late At Night album in 79, the Brothers Johnson Light Up Your Night in 80.

    by 86, she was doing the FLOs.

    Given her laidback demeanor, i can see what you're saying. about her maybe being content with a more modest career and lifestyle. She never struck me as someone that was taken by or obsessed with the razzle dazzle of entertainment.

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    Yeah that's how I see Scherrie too. but DAMN if I were ten years older, I would have loved to manage Scherrie back in the day. I would have pushed the hell out of her.

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    I think Scherrie more then anything really needed that one huge pop hit to establish her voice as lead singer of the Supremes. I think the majority of joe public still thought of the group as being fronted by a Diana/Jean type voice. Had that happened there was potential for anything.

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    I think if Motown had promoted I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do the Walking a bit more, Scherrie would have had a recognizable hit. Out of nowhere,it still hit #40 on the pop charts. Had Motown focused on that, it would have gone much higher. I read somewhere that Motown told DJs not to focus on the song and focus on Love Hangover. Nothing against that classic as it is one of my very, very favorite songs but how incredible would it have been to have the resurgence of the Supremes at the same time? It certainly wouldn't have diminished the classic Love Hangover. When I play Scherrie for friends now they are all impressed with her voice. Plus, she had the looks, glamour and pizzazz that said star. She had the potential to go very far. Loved some of her songs she wrote like Another Life From Now and Storybook Romance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim aka jtigre99 View Post
    I think if Motown had promoted I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do the Walking a bit more, Scherrie would have had a recognizable hit. Out of nowhere,it still hit #40 on the pop charts. Had Motown focused on that, it would have gone much higher. I read somewhere that Motown told DJs not to focus on the song and focus on Love Hangover. Nothing against that classic as it is one of my very, very favorite songs but how incredible would it have been to have the resurgence of the Supremes at the same time? It certainly wouldn't have diminished the classic Love Hangover. When I play Scherrie for friends now they are all impressed with her voice. Plus, she had the looks, glamour and pizzazz that said star. She had the potential to go very far. Loved some of her songs she wrote like Another Life From Now and Storybook Romance.
    what's interesting when you look at the chart data is the both LH and Walking were released on the same day. LH immediately took off in the discos and quickly jumped over into the pop market. And became a huge and well deserved hit.

    Walking lingered a LONG time on the disco charts and really had strong showings in key disco markets. It then entered the pop charts months after it was released and, while not peaking as high as it should, remained on the pop charts for a very respectable duration.

    of course that brings up the question - what might have helped push it higher? I'm not really sure. I'd guess that motown was totally caught off guard by it. without knowing exact dates of internal things, it's so hard to say. supposedly around this time Berry said Motown wanted to manage the group again. was that in time to maybe have some impact on Walking? was it post-Walking? don't know. Mary doesn't give an exact date for this discussion. Some have mentioned that a 12" release could have done more - but motown wasn't doing those much yet. only a couple were released at all in 76 and 77.

    I agree that Walking should have done better and should have re-established the group, with Scherrie's stupendous vocals front and center

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    I like I'm gonna let my heart do the walking. But to re-establish the group maybe they needed another good hit straight afterwards and which song would they have chosen. I think the song needed to chart much higher for Motown to really gain their interest in the group again. High Energy is, to me, their best album in the 70's tied with Touch. I would have liked if they released "I found another love" from the Partners album but as a Supremes single in '76 or early '77. Just one of them songs I like from that album. Add Mary's vocals and keep the background singers at the end, they sounds really good at the end.
    Last edited by TYK1986; 10-08-2020 at 01:29 PM.

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    I think motown and the group missed a few opportunities. the Ivey Woodford tracks on Sup 75 and excellent 70s pop. if they had released one or two of those songs right off the bat [[and promoted them) the Scherrie lineup could have really re-established itself in the pop world. Then they could have ventured into disco. Disco wasn't hugely mainstream in 75 and 76. it certainly was growing but it hadn't taken over everything like it would by 78.

    Frankly i think MS&S is one of the strongest 70s albums

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    It is a strong album and sad to see it didn't do better than it should have. This album always makes me sad as it's their last album.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    I think motown and the group missed a few opportunities. the Ivey Woodford tracks on Sup 75 and excellent 70s pop. if they had released one or two of those songs right off the bat [[and promoted them) the Scherrie lineup could have really re-established itself in the pop world. Then they could have ventured into disco. Disco wasn't hugely mainstream in 75 and 76. it certainly was growing but it hadn't taken over everything like it would by 78.

    Frankly i think MS&S is one of the strongest 70s albums
    I thought MS&S was a big improvement on High Energy. I think part of the reason was that Scherrie took the bulk of the leads. Sadly by this time it was too late to save the group. Mary had two leads and she did a fine job on them both, but she had too many leads on the previous pair of albums. I agree with you that the Supremes75 album could have been successful had the the better tracks been released and promoted with Scherrie on lead. That girl had the talent and ability to be a superstar. In fact she was the full package. So many wasted opportunities.

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    i think having a unique and identifiable group sound is hugely instrumental in success. the girls did it masterfully with the early HDH stuff. it was catchy, unique and just wonderful.
    plus HDH expertly evolved it. even within the first 5 songs, you can hear the progression already starting.

    DRATS really didn't have a sound and the resulting lackluster chart performance corroborates that.

    JMC tapped into a new sound and it worked for a year or so. but they didn't evolve it. and MJL never really had an opportunity to establish one, or at least a successful one

    with SMC the Ivey Woodford tunes were just perfect for them. this was some of the most accomplished 3-part vocals of any grouping of the supremes. PLUS it was just MSC. no additional backgrounds were being used. it isn't often that one of the 1st producers could so immediately tap into something so right but they did. huge missed opportunity there. Scherrie is just delightful on every track, Mary has opportunities to shine and the overall group comes across as fresh and pure pop. ideal way to reintroduce the group to the public

    Walking was a great NEW sound with Scherrie. now the sweet and bubble girl group sound from the Ivey Woodford stuff is evolving into "you go girl" sound. again the group shines on Walking with the high-flying vocals. But scherrie is in command. everything about the song works

    HE the album was a decent album that provided a solid foundation for Walking.

    MS&S takes the great "go get'em" style and dance power of Walking and amps it up. LYG and Love I Never Knew carried on with the powerful vocals and dynamic lead. Don't Wanna Be Tied Down further drives the girl power concept. and Sweet Dream and Come inot my life take the lush and slightly avant guarde High Energy track to a whole new realm.

    shame that these all didn't perform as they should have

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