Mary Wilson - RED HOT release?

[marybrewster]

Does anyone recall a post a few years [[?) ago that it was going to be a "red hot summer" and that the speculation was that RED HOT as well as the 4 Gus tracks would be released?

Anyone have any idea what happened to that?

[jim aka jtigre99]

I honestly don't think that it going to happen. I read that Sweet Feet Music , who was behind Time to Move On was going to remix the 4 unreleased tracks but that never happened. Who knows why her Motown LP and the unreleased tracks won't be released. The same as why the long awaited Clarity has not been released except for those 2 singles in 2011. Mary has been in a number of online interviews, etc. during the pandemic and this would have been a good time to release these things while she has time not touring. I honestly don't see any of it being released anytime soon. It is a shame. I wonder if she owns the masters to Walk The Line CD like she did with the Gus Dudgeon tracks? I thought that had some excellent potential to chart, a very strong release hampered by the record company going bankrupt as it was released[[always seemed suspicious). But, I don't really know the inside story on why these things never came through.

[Roberta75]

Does anyone recall a post a few years [[?) ago that it was going to be a "red hot summer" and that the speculation was that RED HOT as well as the 4 Gus tracks would be released?

Anyone have any idea what happened to that?

Its comimg out as a double album with Clarity in 2037. LOL

[daviddesper]

If they are still releasing CDs in 2037, you will get no argument from me! I might not still be alive but at least I won't argue!

[marybrewster]

I honestly don't think that it going to happen. I read that Sweet Feet Music , who was behind Time to Move On was going to remix the 4 unreleased tracks but that never happened. Who knows why her Motown LP and the unreleased tracks won't be released. The same as why the long awaited Clarity has not been released except for those 2 singles in 2011. Mary has been in a number of online interviews, etc. during the pandemic and this would have been a good time to release these things while she has time not touring. I honestly don't see any of it being released anytime soon. It is a shame. I wonder if she owns the masters to Walk The Line CD like she did with the Gus Dudgeon tracks? I thought that had some excellent potential to chart, a very strong release hampered by the record company going bankrupt as it was released[[always seemed suspicious). But, I don't really know the inside story on why these things never came through.

Of everything Mary has released, I always thought ONE NIGHT WITH YOU had the most potential. I think if it had come out a few years earlier, when songs like "Fire in the Morning" by Melissa Manchester and "I'm Almost Over You" by Sheena Easton were on the charts, it might have had a good chance.

One thing I've never liked about Mary's singing is the constant growls and howls and woo's. "Red Hot" sounds like a cat in heat.

[Circa 1824]

RED HOT was NOT

[jim aka jtigre99]

The single "Red Hot" was not my favorite song on the album-which by the way was titled "Mary Wilson" and not "Red Hot". I think Motown released it as the single because it was the most "upbeat" disco song on her album. Vocally, it was patterned after a very popular James Brown song. The song actually hit #7 on my local radio station WAMO and I heard it played a number of times. I would have preferred the b-side song as the single as I liked Midnight Dancer much better and my favorite song on the LP was I Love A Warm Summer Night. She also had some decent filler such as You're The Light That Guides My Way, You Make Me Feel So Good and Pick Up The Pieces. I personally would have preferred any of them as a single over Red Hot. I loved the unreleased 4 songs from Gus Dudgeon and they may have made some impact had Motown released a sophomore album. I also liked One Night With You and if I remember reading correctly, she performed it for some time prior to recording it.I remember reading that there was a negative reaction to the video because in one small spot when she is singing hey hey hey that it was off track and the criticism over that overshadowed the song. Next thing we knew, the title track was being promoted as the new single. I think Mary, being quite pregnant and in need to be recording, accepted the Motown contract and the songs because she had to. I don't think she thought that would be her lone Motown recording. I read interviews were she said she thought it was the just the start and she planned to develop from there and she chose 4 songs that were more her forte for her follow up and was shown the door and given her masters back. Still, like me, I think many would have preferred another song as her single from "Mary Wilson"-what would you have liked?

[BobbyC]

Uhg. I thought the album, songs and vocals were weak on Mary's debut--she sounds breathy and bland IMO. Just a year or so later, Mary turns in STELLAR vocals on the Gus tracks, You Danced My Heart, etc. Were these two recording sessions by the same singer? Doesn't sound like it to me. That's what drives me nuts about Mary--it's like sometimes she isn't even trying. It's a consistency issue. For every Teardrops Bother You, or You're What's Missing, you get A Heart Like Mine. I love that song but the vocals are just so so IMO.

[sup_fan]

Uhg. I thought the album, songs and vocals were weak on Mary's debut--she sounds breathy and bland IMO. Just a year or so later, Mary turns in STELLAR vocals on the Gus tracks, You Danced My Heart, etc. Were these two recording sessions by the same singer? Doesn't sound like it to me. That's what drives me nuts about Mary--it's like sometimes she isn't even trying. It's a consistency issue. For every Teardrops Bother You, or You're What's Missing, you get A Heart Like Mine. I love that song but the vocals are just so so IMO.

agreed. her tracks alternate between passionate and bland whispers. I Keep It Hid is only saved by her marvelous ending. that head voice was just gorgeous!!

[BobbyC]

I agree 100% about the 'head voice" thing on I Keep it Hid. The rest of the vocals are okay, but just okay. Passable but not inspiring. On Walk the Line we got the great singer Mary again. She powers through the uptempo stuff and is soft when she needs to be. I've always thought Mary's problems were psychological. It's almost like she told herself she can only sing ballads well and likewise never developed her skills when it came to uptempo stuff. What's really weird how Diana sounded really bad on certain early filler like Sloopy [[ggrrrrr), I mean BAD, and continually got better and better. By 1972 she could tackle anything and if she couldn't, she'd work on it until it was right. Not so Mary--she sounded fantastic on early cuts like People and The Tears, but lost her voice by the late 60's and it took years for her to really start singing out. What a shame because she has the voice. It was all psychological IMO. And cigarettes.

[jim aka jtigre99]

I agree 100% about the 'head voice" thing on I Keep it Hid. The rest of the vocals are okay, but just okay. Passable but not inspiring. On Walk the Line we got the great singer Mary again. She powers through the uptempo stuff and is soft when she needs to be. I've always thought Mary's problems were psychological. It's almost like she told herself she can only sing ballads well and likewise never developed her skills when it came to uptempo stuff. What's really weird how Diana sounded really bad on certain early filler like Sloopy [[ggrrrrr), I mean BAD, and continually got better and better. By 1972 she could tackle anything and if she couldn't, she'd work on it until it was right. Not so Mary--she sounded fantastic on early cuts like People and The Tears, but lost her voice by the late 60's and it took years for her to really start singing out. What a shame because she has the voice. It was all psychological IMO. And cigarettes.

I always liked Mary's voice. I find her to be distinctive and without her grounding the group sound it would not have been as distinctive because you had Diana on one end and Florence on the other. I admit sometimes her breathy leads are not as strong as they should be but I give her so much credit. To this day, she carries on even after being told by Berry Gordy that she could not sing,having Gordy and the critics singling out Diana even when she had not grown into the role. Mary has the voice, was always told she did ballads best but wasn't given the backing when she sang uptempo songs. I think once Florence, whom Mary considered to have the best voice, was let go and she was told she couldn't sing I am sure that caused her to doubt herself. I mean the boss isn't in your corner and you are worried that you will be let go as easily as Florence had been. I can concur that there is a lot of material where Diana's singing is subpar but when you get all of the attention, all of the support and the chances to sing all of the leads of course you will do better in accomplishing perfecting your craft over someone who is not given any of those opportunities plus having a contralto voice, which rarely has been given the material in pop or r&b. I think you can only be pushed down so far until you finally start believing what you are being told. I personally have always loved Mary's voice and think it is quite unique and distinctive in its own right. Even today, Mary says she is not a great singer but a great entertainer. I think she is both and could have accomplished anything had she had the support needed.

[Ollie9]

Uhg. I thought the album, songs and vocals were weak on Mary's debut--she sounds breathy and bland IMO. Just a year or so later, Mary turns in STELLAR vocals on the Gus tracks, You Danced My Heart, etc. Were these two recording sessions by the same singer? Doesn't sound like it to me. That's what drives me nuts about Mary--it's like sometimes she isn't even trying. It's a consistency issue. For every Teardrops Bother You, or You're What's Missing, you get A Heart Like Mine. I love that song but the vocals are just so so IMO.

In fairness Bobby, regarding the debut album “Pick Up The Pieces” was the only half decent song on it. The remaining songs being so dire, there was simply nothing else for Mary to work with. I really think it would have been a challenge for any vocalist.

[BobbyC]

I agree, Ollie. I liked Pick up the Pieces okay, and Warm Summer Night, but I couldn't even tell you what any of the other songs sound like today--that's how unmemorable they were. All the songs on Walk the Line were memorable as were the Gus tracks. Mary sells all those songs. I remember an interview with Mary right before Walk the Line was released and Mary said she thought people would be shocked that it was her! The doubt in her voice was painful! I knew she could do it--she has the voice--she lacked confidence IMO. I love Mary's voice in the background on all the old Supreme's stuff.

[marybrewster]

The single "Red Hot" was not my favorite song on the album-which by the way was titled "Mary Wilson" and not "Red Hot". I think Motown released it as the single because it was the most "upbeat" disco song on her album. Vocally, it was patterned after a very popular James Brown song. The song actually hit #7 on my local radio station WAMO and I heard it played a number of times. I would have preferred the b-side song as the single as I liked Midnight Dancer much better and my favorite song on the LP was I Love A Warm Summer Night. She also had some decent filler such as You're The Light That Guides My Way, You Make Me Feel So Good and Pick Up The Pieces. I personally would have preferred any of them as a single over Red Hot. I loved the unreleased 4 songs from Gus Dudgeon and they may have made some impact had Motown released a sophomore album. I also liked One Night With You and if I remember reading correctly, she performed it for some time prior to recording it.I remember reading that there was a negative reaction to the video because in one small spot when she is singing hey hey hey that it was off track and the criticism over that overshadowed the song. Next thing we knew, the title track was being promoted as the new single. I think Mary, being quite pregnant and in need to be recording, accepted the Motown contract and the songs because she had to. I don't think she thought that would be her lone Motown recording. I read interviews were she said she thought it was the just the start and she planned to develop from there and she chose 4 songs that were more her forte for her follow up and was shown the door and given her masters back. Still, like me, I think many would have preferred another song as her single from "Mary Wilson"-what would you have liked?

From Mary's debut, I've always been partial to "I've Got What You Need" and "Midnight Dancer". MD definitely should have been a single.

Mary's Motown contract was a joke. I highly doubt there was ever any plan for a second album. The only reason she got her debut was to drop her lawsuit. What dummy lawyer agreed to that? You're suing a business.....but drop your lawsuit to turn around and do business with them? Of course they weren't going to do anything but fulfill their obligation.

Still, funny how many have sued Motown over the years, yet still sing its praises.

[SatansBlues]

Didn't George or Andy do a really nice remix of Red Hot and played it on Midnight Johnny's radio show a few years ago? Or did I just dream this?

[Boogiedown]

jim aka jtigre99
The single "Red Hot" was not my favorite song on the album-which by the way was titled "Mary Wilson" and not "Red Hot". I think Motown released it as the single because it was the most "upbeat" disco song on her album. Vocally, it was patterned after a very popular James Brown song. The song actually hit #7 on my local radio station WAMO and I heard it played a number of times. I would have preferred the b-side song as the single as I liked Midnight Dancer much better and my favorite song on the LP was I Love A Warm Summer Night.

I agree, Ollie. I liked Pick up the Pieces okay, and Warm Summer Night, but I couldn't even tell you what any of the other songs sound like today--that's how unmemorable they were. All the songs on Walk the Line were memorable as were the Gus tracks. Mary sells all those songs. I remember an interview with Mary right before Walk the Line was released and Mary said she thought people would be shocked that it was her! The doubt in her voice was painful! I knew she could do it--she has the voice--she lacked confidence IMO. I love Mary's voice in the background on all the old Supreme's stuff.

Because of these mentions , I gave WARM SUMMER NIGHT a listen . >Very Very Nice!!<



I think I hear some Thelma in her voice!



The song puts me to mind of :

[Ollie9]

[QUOTE=Boogiedown;587134]Because of these mentions , I gave WARM SUMMER NIGHT a listen . >Very Very Nice!!<

[video=youtube;4Kyr7R04XXw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kyr7R04XXw

Mary’s voice sounds warm and inviting on this, the second, potentially half decent song on the album Boogie..... It’s just those lyrics!!. They might have been written while waiting for an egg to soft boil.

[sup_fan]

From Mary's debut, I've always been partial to "I've Got What You Need" and "Midnight Dancer". MD definitely should have been a single.

Mary's Motown contract was a joke. I highly doubt there was ever any plan for a second album. The only reason she got her debut was to drop her lawsuit. What dummy lawyer agreed to that? You're suing a business.....but drop your lawsuit to turn around and do business with them? Of course they weren't going to do anything but fulfill their obligation.

Still, funny how many have sued Motown over the years, yet still sing its praises.

the lawyers might have helped pull the deal together but Mary was the one to gave it the green light. I agree that it was a dumb business move. But from Mary's POV in the book, she mentions that motown was dragging its feet with the lawsuit. They're the ones with the financial resources to do so. meanwhile Mary had basically $0 money coming in and paying big bills for her huge house, staff, lawyer, etc. When they offered to settle, at least she'd get some sort of advance on sales [[even a small one) which could help pay immediate bills. I believe it was around this time that she lost her mansion.

Does anyone know if when Mary decided to go solo in Dec 76 if motown was allowing her to continue recording as a solo artist? She was signed to motown as a Supreme, not a solo. if she wanted out of the group and to be on the label as a single, she'd need a new contract with the new royalty and payment structure.

Did motown ever actually offer her this? She makes no mention of it in her books.

I wonder if they did NOT and then she started saying things like "marvin gaye is going to produce my album" which supposedly was NOT true and NOT received well by Motown or Marvin. Then you had the S American tour debacle and legal problems.

Not a very business savvy way to launch a solo career.

[drlorne]

I agree with you, the hoots and woos were way to excessive....there wasn't much to the lyrics anyway, but after the first few listens it became unlistenable. I always wondered why she or the producers didn't edit them out.

[drlorne]

Motown did do a nice job on the album cover.

[Boogiedown]

Because of these mentions , I gave WARM SUMMER NIGHT a listen . >Very Very Nice!!<

[video=youtube;4Kyr7R04XXw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kyr7R04XXw

Mary’s voice sounds warm and inviting on this, the second, potentially half decent song on the album Boogie..... It’s just those lyrics!!. They might have been written while waiting for an egg to soft boil.

Ya when you reuse the word "moon" twice within the first few lines of a song.... time for a rewrite.

[Boogiedown]

I agree with you, the hoots and woos were way to excessive....there wasn't much to the lyrics anyway, but after the first few listens it became unlistenable. I always wondered why she or the producers didn't edit them out.

I suspect it was intentional. They were trying to capture this Linda Clifford grit that was popular then :

[jim aka jtigre99]

I suspect it was intentional. They were trying to capture this Linda Clifford grit that was popular then :

Although this was my least favorite of the songs she recorded for her proposed second album, she uses the owws and grit to much better effect on this song:

[jim aka jtigre99]

Even Diana Ross uses the "oww" grit here although far more restrained

[drlorne]

Green River was great....she was channelling Tina and doing a great job. WOW!!
I guess it was too rock and not motownish enough.