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  1. #1

    "Reflections" original cover

    I read that yesterday, July 24, was the 53rd anniversary of the release of the single, "Reflections." I understand that because this was during the famous, or infamous, transition within the group, the album cover, which was already prepared, was quickly pulled in favor of the collage of pictures of Cindy, Mary, and Diana to be displayed on the cover.

    I also understand that the cover jacket of the 45rpm of 'Reflections' showcased the original cover with Florence, Mary, and Diana? Does anyone have that and is willing to share a picture of it?

  2. #2
    Would love to see that. People have long discussed this but I’ve never seen a pic.

  3. #3
    [/QUOTE] I also understand that the cover jacket of the 45rpm of 'Reflections' showcased the original cover with Florence, Mary, and Diana? Does anyone have that and is willing to share a picture of it?[/QUOTE]

    Response: According to the esteemed Reginald Bartlette who is one of the leading experts in the world on Motown, his book listed a detailed listing of 45rpms that had picture sleeves issued for them. I checked and there is no indication that ANY picture sleeve ever existed for this specific 45rpm, Reflections. If anyone comes forth with a p/s, it is highly suspicious that it is a bootleg or a fake.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by jobucats View Post
    I read that yesterday, July 24, was the 53rd anniversary of the release of the single, "Reflections." I understand that because this was during the famous, or infamous, transition within the group, the album cover, which was already prepared, was quickly pulled in favor of the collage of pictures of Cindy, Mary, and Diana to be displayed on the cover.

    I also understand that the cover jacket of the 45rpm of 'Reflections' showcased the original cover with Florence, Mary, and Diana? Does anyone have that and is willing to share a picture of it?
    REFLECTIONS wasn't issued in a picture sleeve. However, there are some generic Motown 45 sleeves that include the original REFLECTIONS cover showing D, M, F, and C.

    To my knowledge, it hasn't been confirmed that the original cover was actually issued. Some people have posted that they have copies that have the back cover pasted over. But it seems that it was just a difference in font size.

  5. #5
    So there's still members of this forum who haven't checked my website because the original picture of Reflections is there...

    http://dianarosssupremes.free.fr/index.htm

    in the 'Album Expanded' section...

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurent View Post
    So there's still members of this forum who haven't checked my website because the original picture of Reflections is there...

    http://dianarosssupremes.free.fr/index.htm

    in the 'Album Expanded' section...
    Thank you, Laurent!!!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurent View Post
    So there's still members of this forum who haven't checked my website because the original picture of Reflections is there...

    http://dianarosssupremes.free.fr/index.htm

    in the 'Album Expanded' section...
    Wonderful! Any chance it’s available in a bigger version? Love your site...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurent View Post
    So there's still members of this forum who haven't checked my website because the original picture of Reflections is there...

    http://dianarosssupremes.free.fr/index.htm

    in the 'Album Expanded' section...
    Very impressive website!! Love it !!

  9. #9
    When the single was released, i doubt they had the packaged album assembled, much less graphics. Cindy had only been in the group a few weeks so they wouldn't have had the images of her on stage and in the photo shoots yet.

    But you are correct in stating that on the generic motown 45 sleeve with the various album covers and images, there was a period where an alt cover was shown.

    I believe George mentioned this was the cover up until just before the release of the album and that in some very early pressings, the new cover art is simply glued on top of the previous art.

    Of course this all leads us to a HUGE question of why??? Why would they design the cover with flo at all?

    I'm guessing here but i wonder if they simply weren't paying attention. maybe the guy designing the cover pulled a bunch of pics and started making the collage. then they realized the issue just as they were printing.

  10. #10
    I think Sup is right. The person charged with the cover design was not paying close enough attention and mistook Florence for Cindy. I hate the cover, btw.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I think Sup is right. The person charged with the cover design was not paying close enough attention and mistook Florence for Cindy. I hate the cover, btw.
    Lol. BTW, I hate the cover, too.

  12. #12
    oh i always liked the cover! i think it was a cool design and interesting

    the back cover i was less excited about

  13. #13
    Well Florence did sing on the Reflections album I assume.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    Well Florence did sing on the Reflections album I assume.
    She did. I had the original of all originals for that album in my hands before. The cardboard mock up that was sent to the printers . I found it inside Hitsville when I first volunteered there back in the mid 80s.

  15. #15
    Florence is on two Reflections cuts: "In and Out of Love" and "What the World Needs Now". Hardly a reason to have her on the cover. Of the non specialty albums and the albums with the Tempts, Flo made it onto all of the DRATS studio albums except Love Child.

  16. #16
    well and let's be honest. motown didn't care about who was singing on the album when it came time to design the graphics and market it.

    here's what i believe the vocals are for the album:

    Reflections D, M and then maybe Marlene again? supposedly Flo is not on this song and someone subbed for her. not sure
    I'm gonna make it - DMC
    Forever came today - D and Andantes
    I can't make it alone - D and Andantes
    In and out of love - DMF and Andantes. Although Andantes covered up F and M, i believe they're still in the mix. i don't think their vocals were erased or dropped
    Bah Bah Bah - DMC

    What the world needs now - DMF
    up up and away - D and Andantes
    Love makes me do - D and Andantes
    Then - DMC
    Misery makes its home - D, M and Marlene
    Ode to billie joe - D solo

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    oh i always liked the cover! i think it was a cool design and interesting

    the back cover i was less excited about
    I also loved the cover. The back cover, from the day I got it, bothered me because of the my perceptions of the photo of Diana. I never quite understood if there was something wrong with her left shoulder [[as you're looking at the picture). To the right looks like a strap from a gown. What's on the left? That's always been a mystery to me. [[I am not sure if I attached the photo correctly)

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    Last edited by jobucats; 07-28-2020 at 02:17 PM.

  18. #18
    Weren't there plans that this would be the group's last album before Diana went solo and that Flo would be brought back for a final tour? That may be why she was included on early artwork for the album.

  19. #19
    I like the cover of Reflections a lot. It's probably my favourite of the 60's Supremes albums. But I'm weird I guess lol. Hopefully they will add a clearer picture of the original cover to the expanded edition.
    Although I like many of the songs on the album I do think they were thrown together without thinking or maybe they had a plan and I just can't see it. Reflections being psychedelic like good vibrations by the beach boys are a few of my fave songs. Just can't stand the ballads and up up and away [[love the 5th Dimension version) so always skip the first 3 songs on side 2.

  20. #20
    [QUOTE=jobucats;584700]I also loved the cover. The back cover, from the day I got it, bothered me because of the my perceptions of the photo of Diana. I never quite understood if there was something wrong with her left shoulder [[as you're looking at the picture). To the right looks like a strap from a grown. What's on the left? That's always been a mystery to me. [[I am not sure if I attached the photo correctly)

    Hi Jobucats... That picture did always look odd, didn't it? Turns out, having FINALLY found other photos of that gown in the ensuing years, it's a strap [[embroidered/beaded?) on the girls' left shoulders and basically a pretty simple gown the rest of the way down. To my non-professional opinion, it looks like a 1966, off-the-rack gown which the girls were still buying until about mid-1966 when the more 'serious' sequined and beaded gowns from pro designers started becoming a steadier part of their stage wardrobe. In that photo on the back of the album with the way it's cropped, the 'strap' on one side looks odd--almost like a guitar strap--and then the dark shadow on Diana's other shoulder, I believe, is coming from the microphone she's holding.

    I've attached another photo of the girls in these gowns--I believe from the same appearance at the Fairmont Hotel in San Francisco. There are other shots at the same venue in different gowns, too. This would not be one of my favorite "rare" gowns worn by the girls... but it's still neat to see it, right?

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  21. #21
    [QUOTE=danman869;584709]
    Quote Originally Posted by jobucats View Post
    I also loved the cover. The back cover, from the day I got it, bothered me because of the my perceptions of the photo of Diana. I never quite understood if there was something wrong with her left shoulder [[as you're looking at the picture). To the right looks like a strap from a grown. What's on the left? That's always been a mystery to me. [[I am not sure if I attached the photo correctly)

    Hi Jobucats... That picture did always look odd, didn't it? Turns out, having FINALLY found other photos of that gown in the ensuing years, it's a strap [[embroidered/beaded?) on the girls' left shoulders and basically a pretty simple gown the rest of the way down. To my non-professional opinion, it looks like a 1966, off-the-rack gown which the girls were still buying until about mid-1966 when the more 'serious' sequined and beaded gowns from pro designers started becoming a steadier part of their stage wardrobe. In that photo on the back of the album with the way it's cropped, the 'strap' on one side looks odd--almost like a guitar strap--and then the dark shadow on Diana's other shoulder, I believe, is coming from the microphone she's holding.

    I've attached another photo of the girls in these gowns--I believe from the same appearance at the Fairmont Hotel in San Francisco. There are other shots at the same venue in different gowns, too. This would not be one of my favorite "rare" gowns worn by the girls... but it's still neat to see it, right?

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    Thanks, danman869. I can add your response to my list of answers another one of life-long mysteries which have perplexed me. I had thought also that strap [[which turned out to be gown) was a guitar strap [[however, I've only seen one picture of Diana holding a guitar and that was on a Jet Magazine cover...ha ha. And that other shoulder shadow makes her shoulder looked like she had been injured.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jobucats View Post
    To the right looks like a strap from a gown. What's on the left? That's always been a mystery to me. [[I am not sure if I attached the photo correctly)

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    I always thought it was a shadow on her right shoulder.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by floyjoy678 View Post
    Weren't there plans that this would be the group's last album before Diana went solo and that Flo would be brought back for a final tour? That may be why she was included on early artwork for the album.
    i've never heard this before. there are some rumors that Gordy and Ross were contemplating going solo in late 66. Sing HDH and YKMHO would have been the last releases.

    That sort of makes sense because Flo hadn't completely deteriorated yet but there were clear problems within the group. Diana would have left and F and M would have gotten a new girl which would have definitely relieved some of the intra-group problems

    But i agree that it was too early to break Diana as a solo. she would have still done well by odds are she wouldn't have become DIANA ROSS. her doing Lady Sings The Blues was critical in her springboarding into mega-star level and going solo in 66 would have been too early in her development IMO. she wouldn't have made that leap into Hollywood as easily and would have stayed a singer. and possibly after a period her fame might have dimmed a bit.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by TYK1986 View Post
    I like the cover of Reflections a lot. It's probably my favourite of the 60's Supremes albums. But I'm weird I guess lol. Hopefully they will add a clearer picture of the original cover to the expanded edition.
    Although I like many of the songs on the album I do think they were thrown together without thinking or maybe they had a plan and I just can't see it. Reflections being psychedelic like good vibrations by the beach boys are a few of my fave songs. Just can't stand the ballads and up up and away [[love the 5th Dimension version) so always skip the first 3 songs on side 2.
    yeah Reflections is a bit of a hodgepodge

    More Hits - you have the girls doing 3 big hits plus an array of just solid, HDH songs.

    Symphony - the group's sound and song selection is maturing. you have 6 MOR songs and 6 sophisticated pop songs. but rather than just having one side for each, you surprise the listener a bit with have 1 pop song [[symphony) on the Adult side and 1 MOR song [[wonderful) on the youth side.

    A Go Go - just a solid dance concept album

    HDH - the song selection is a bit questionable here but the idea was to acknowledge their talented producers.

    Reflections - sort of all over the place. I've written on here several times about how i was really at a loss with this lp and where they were going. but on wikipedia, it classifies In And Out Of Love as Sunshine Pop. That music category includes the 5thD, Beach Boys, Mamas and Papas and others. it's an LA sound. And Reflections hints to the psychedelic sounds from San Fran. by late 66 and into 67 [[especially the Summer of Love in 67), both LA and San Fran were having huge impacts on the pop music world.
    Had they adjusted the track list a little, the Reflections lp would have been an excellent tribute to the California Sounds. Sunshine and psychedelic meets Motown

  25. #25
    [QUOTE=danman869;584709]
    Quote Originally Posted by jobucats View Post
    I also loved the cover. The back cover, from the day I got it, bothered me because of the my perceptions of the photo of Diana. I never quite understood if there was something wrong with her left shoulder [[as you're looking at the picture). To the right looks like a strap from a grown. What's on the left? That's always been a mystery to me. [[I am not sure if I attached the photo correctly)

    Hi Jobucats... That picture did always look odd, didn't it? Turns out, having FINALLY found other photos of that gown in the ensuing years, it's a strap [[embroidered/beaded?) on the girls' left shoulders and basically a pretty simple gown the rest of the way down. To my non-professional opinion, it looks like a 1966, off-the-rack gown which the girls were still buying until about mid-1966 when the more 'serious' sequined and beaded gowns from pro designers started becoming a steadier part of their stage wardrobe. In that photo on the back of the album with the way it's cropped, the 'strap' on one side looks odd--almost like a guitar strap--and then the dark shadow on Diana's other shoulder, I believe, is coming from the microphone she's holding.

    I've attached another photo of the girls in these gowns--I believe from the same appearance at the Fairmont Hotel in San Francisco. There are other shots at the same venue in different gowns, too. This would not be one of my favorite "rare" gowns worn by the girls... but it's still neat to see it, right?

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    this was their debut at the Fairmont in San Fran. Played there from 5/19 - 6/8/66. so not even a full year after their Copa debut. Once they played the Copa, they pretty much made similar debuts in similar clubs across the US [[i'm just listing some of the bigger clubs and the first time at that level of club in each city)

    Safari Room - San Jose in Sept 65
    Lincoln Center - NYC Oct 65
    Blinstrub's - Boston, Oct 65
    Latin Quarter - Philly, Oct/Nov 65
    Lyric Theater - Baltimore, Nov 65
    Twin Coaches - Pitts, Dec 65
    Shamrock Hilton - Houston, Deb 65
    Eden Rock - Miami, Dec 65
    Roostertail - Detroit, Jan 66
    El San Juan Hotel - Puerto Rico, Jan 66
    Kiel Opera House - St Louis, March 66
    The Cave - Vancouver, May 66
    Venetian Room - San Fran, May/June 66
    Flamingo Hotel - Vegas, Sept 66
    Latin Casino - Philly, March 67


    For that Fairmont engagement, they had a bunch of new gowns which they debuted

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  26. #26
    at least i think the first pic i posted of Flo doing People at the mic is them at the Fairmont. now that i see it larger [[vs on my phone), i'm not sure

  27. #27
    In her latest book, Mary says the color photos above were taken at the Cave in Vancouver. I did notice that the music stands in them are red whereas those of the Fairmont seem a light color.

  28. #28
    in the pics i posted, pics 2 and 3 [[the red sequin and black paisley) and the guitar dress that Dan posted are at the same location. Now where that location is, is certainly open to debate.

    and now that you mention it, i think you're right.

    didn't the Fairmont use a white music stand with "Fairmont" in swirling script on it?

  29. #29
    yes! here's a pic of the girls at the Fairmont. So they definitely wore the red sequin gowns there but you can see the music stand behind them

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  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by ejluther View Post
    Wonderful! Any chance it’s available in a bigger version? Love your site...
    You can right click on the picture to get it full size or download it... it's free to grab... :-)

    Thanks you all for your nice comments about my website :-)

  31. #31
    Here is a slightly bigger version:

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  32. #32
    @LoveSupreme,

    Where in the cover design are Flo's photos? I can't find any I readily identify as her. Maybe the photo towards the upper right, could be Flo in the back left, maybe? The other photos all seem recognizable from what became the actual cover.

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    @LoveSupreme,

    Where in the cover design are Flo's photos? I can't find any I readily identify as her. Maybe the photo towards the upper right, could be Flo in the back left, maybe? The other photos all seem recognizable from what became the actual cover.
    A photo of DMF appears on the right side of the album, under the letters T-I-O-N in the album title. A larger version of this photo [[with the girls on a staircase and their hands in the STOP! motion) appears in the 25TH ANNIVERSARY booklet.

    There's also a photo of DMF on stage at the bottom of the cover.

    On the right side of the middle circle, there is a small photo of Flo which seems to be cut down from the photo in post #25.

    Note: A few of the other photos even in this mock-up album cover were group shots originally including Flo but reduced to only include Diana and Mary.
    Last edited by reese; 08-02-2020 at 12:32 AM.

  34. #34
    Thank you, Reese!

  35. #35
    Diana kept saying in interviews that Flo might comeback so there was some question hence maybe the original cover!

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    Diana kept saying in interviews that Flo might comeback so there was some question hence maybe the original cover!
    i think that was more to soften the departure and make them seem like they were all still friends

    earlier in 67 it's debatable as to whether her departure was permanent and if her return after the Hollywood Bowl was really a second attempt to get her to clean up her act or just biding time until Cindy's contract could be released.

    but after June 67, Flo was done in the supremes. no way was she coming back

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i think that was more to soften the departure and make them seem like they were all still friends

    earlier in 67 it's debatable as to whether her departure was permanent and if her return after the Hollywood Bowl was really a second attempt to get her to clean up her act or just biding time until Cindy's contract could be released.

    but after June 67, Flo was done in the supremes. no way was she coming back
    Right, after June 67 [[more precisely after July 1st), there was no way Flo was coming back in the group, and the album being released in March 68, I would rather put the question the other way : why would Motown still consider to put pictures of Florence on the sleeve in March 68? Was it to acknowledge the fact that she was on several songs on the album? And if so, why did they change their minds at the last minute? Were they afraid to have to pay her some extra royalities even after the terrible full settlement they imposed on her... Or was it to just put no confusion within the public: by March 68 Cindy already had been in numerous tv show as a Supreme, concerts and an extensive European tour in January/February 68... strategically it woud probably have been a non-sens [[on a business perspective) to release an album with pictures of Florence on it.

  38. #38
    Maybe it was a mistake and they hoped nobody would notice. I think the cover with Florence on it was a half way design because they probably had a lot more photo's of her to work with and they would eventually replace them with photo's of Cindy. How many people besides the ones on this Motown forum know about that cover with Florence on it? I guess that most people didn't even give it a second look.
    Last edited by TYK1986; 08-03-2020 at 06:26 PM. Reason: spelling mistake

  39. #39
    I think the cover with Flo photos might have just been a mock-up that was put together in a hurry to be used on those generic 45 sleeves.

    If you look at it, there are large black lines around the top and top left circles, almost as if they were traced or cut-outs. They might have just grabbed any photos thinking that they would be so small on the 45 sleeve that no one would notice. And even then, there are still some photos on it that were originally DMF but they cut Flo out. So why go through the trouble of cutting Flo out of those if that wasn't the original intent?

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    I think the cover with Flo photos might have just been a mock-up that was put together in a hurry to be used on those generic 45 sleeves.

    If you look at it, there are large black lines around the top and top left circles, almost as if they were traced or cut-outs. They might have just grabbed any photos thinking that they would be so small on the 45 sleeve that no one would notice. And even then, there are still some photos on it that were originally DMF but they cut Flo out. So why go through the trouble of cutting Flo out of those if that wasn't the original intent?
    There are fans who own an early 1st pressing copy of the Reflections album with the original cover that features photos of Flo, with the new cover pasted over top, similar to what was done with The Beatles' "butcher cover" for "Yesterday and Today". I have been told that the cover with Flo is somewhat visible underneath the pasted layer. Therefore this was not only done for the 45's sleeves, but was intended to be the actual album cover and pulled at the last minute. Although I have also wondered in regards to the question you posed...on the original cover that featured photos of Flo, they still included photos with only Diana and Mary. What was the reasoning behind this? I wonder if this collage was truly meant to be a symbolic representation of "reflections" of The Supremes' history up to that point, and the changes that they had gone through. Perhaps that is why they were originally ok with the design that included Flo, and perhaps later on, someone changed their mind. My thinking is that the change with the album cover would have likely been due to the fact that even though Flo was fired in July of '67, by the time the release of the Reflection album rolled around in March of '68, she had likely only come off the heels of signing her release with Motown and then was likely in the subsequent stages of her assembling her litigation with Motown, as well as signing her solo contract with ABC Records, which likely made things far too complicated for Motown to even consider going-forward with their original plan of including photos of her on the cover of a new Supremes album. I'm sure these different legal complexities came to their attention at the final hour, and to cover their own ass, they changed the cover.
    Last edited by carlo; 08-03-2020 at 09:53 PM.

  41. #41
    Prior to the album's release I was told by the owner of my local Mom & Pop record store that he heard the album was delayed because "they are having trouble with the cover".

    "Forever Came Today" was released in February 1968 and the record label indicated it was on the album "Reflections". I bought my album on Good Friday April 12, 1968 before the store owner even put it in the record bin. So I guess sometime between February and April I must have asked the store owner if he knew when the album would be released.

  42. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by carlo View Post
    There are fans who own an early 1st pressing copy of the Reflections album with the original cover that features photos of Flo, with the new cover pasted over top, similar to what was done with The Beatles' "butcher cover" for "Yesterday and Today". I have been told that the cover with Flo is somewhat visible underneath the pasted layer. Therefore this was not only done for the 45's sleeves, but was intended to be the actual album cover and pulled at the last minute. Although I have also wondered in regards to the question you posed...on the original cover that featured photos of Flo, they still included photos with only Diana and Mary. What was the reasoning behind this? I wonder if this collage was truly meant to be a symbolic representation of "reflections" of The Supremes' history up to that point, and the changes that they had gone through. Perhaps that is why they were originally ok with the design that included Flo, and perhaps later on, someone changed their mind. My thinking is that the change with the album cover would have likely been due to the fact that even though Flo was fired in July of '67, by the time the release of the Reflection album rolled around in March of '68, she had likely only come off the heels of signing her release with Motown and then was likely in the subsequent stages of her assembling her litigation with Motown, as well as signing her solo contract with ABC Records, which likely made things far too complicated for Motown to even consider going-forward with their original plan of including photos of her on the cover of a new Supremes album. I'm sure these different legal complexities came to their attention at the final hour, and to cover their own ass, they changed the cover.
    I've heard the same re fans having the original pasted-over cover. It just seems rather strange that none of these have ever appeared over the years, at least not to my knowledge. I do recall a fan posting that he had a pasted-over copy but that it was the back cover that seemed to have changed.

    All of this said, if I even had a copy, I probably wouldn't risk ruining it just to see the original so maybe that is why none seem to have surfaced.

  43. #43
    Who designed the cover? Maybe this person can give an explanation. Hopefully we get some explanation when they release an expanded edition of Reflections.

    I'm not an expert or business orientated but how many of the original cover were printed and if not that many why bother trying to cover them. Wouldn't that be more time consuming. It also feel a bit unprofessional to me for at the time the biggest girl group. Love to see one of them original covers that was pasted-over.

  44. #44
    some thoughts

    Flo's departure [[at least to the public) was NOT negative. everyone involved said at the time it was because she was tired, or wanted to open an antique shop or that she was looking to settle down with a family, etc etc etc.

    Since then we've certainly come to learn more about the drama behind the scenes. But to the world in 1967 and 68, the girls were still the pretty little black Barbie dolls and loved each other.

    They had also released the MASSIVE greatest hits set that had Flo's painting in it. That released on 8/29/67, almost 2 months after Flo was kicked out. And let's face it, it wouldn't have been a drastic problem to delay the release a month if they still needed time to do Cindy's painting.

    I wonder if they thought they could still use Flo's images and continue to utilize the HUGE library of photos from the girls. Just like they used an old image on Sing R&H. and even the group painting on the cover of Greatest Hits was an older view of the girls. Those yellow chiffon gowns with the rose on the bodice hadn't been worn in well over a year and a half when the GH album was released.

  45. #45
    My memories of...
    Flo was fired. Aug 67.
    At the time the Mama's n papas fired Michelle Phillips and toured with out her. The fans did not react well to her new replacement.the rest of the tour was cancelled n Phillips was brought back.
    Gordy was afraid of a similar backlash.
    It was also decided by Motown MGT that the Supremes could not continue without HDH.
    The greatest hits album was released which originally contained reflections....
    And a farewell tour planned which would bring Ballard back.
    The deal fell thru with Ballard and Ross agreed to stay until the end of her contract.
    I think the lp Reflections was released because there was no other new material and forever came today n in n out if love was dug out of the vaults
    An lp called something's you never get used to was cancelled ........although it returned as love child latter that year

  46. #46
    In at least one interview Diana spoke of all 4 Supremes ... Cindy and Flo. I imagine they were also testing public reactions.

  47. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    My memories of...
    Flo was fired. Aug 67.
    At the time the Mama's n papas fired Michelle Phillips and toured with out her. The fans did not react well to her new replacement.the rest of the tour was cancelled n Phillips was brought back.
    Gordy was afraid of a similar backlash.
    It was also decided by Motown MGT that the Supremes could not continue without HDH.
    The greatest hits album was released which originally contained reflections....
    And a farewell tour planned which would bring Ballard back.
    The deal fell thru with Ballard and Ross agreed to stay until the end of her contract.
    I think the lp Reflections was released because there was no other new material and forever came today n in n out if love was dug out of the vaults
    An lp called something's you never get used to was cancelled ........although it returned as love child latter that year
    That would explain why at first they kept saying Flo was just talking a break and why Diana referred to Cindy as an understudy.

  48. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by floyjoy678 View Post
    That would explain why at first they kept saying Flo was just talking a break and why Diana referred to Cindy as an understudy.
    Flo was also still under contract to motown until Feb 68. supposedly motown was going to continue to record her as a single artist [[not sure how THAT would have worked) but that would have kept her at the label and avoided any messy PR nightmares.

    Perhaps they would say something like "Flo is tired of the relentless pace of DRATS and wishes to have a more private and quiet life. she'll continue to record some with motown while she also enjoys more time with her family" and then they'd have probably never done anything with her.

  49. Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Flo was also still under contract to motown until Feb 68. supposedly motown was going to continue to record her as a single artist [[not sure how THAT would have worked) but that would have kept her at the label and avoided any messy PR nightmares.

    Perhaps they would say something like "Flo is tired of the relentless pace of DRATS and wishes to have a more private and quiet life. she'll continue to record some with motown while she also enjoys more time with her family" and then they'd have probably never done anything with her.
    I often wondered just what that would have sounded like, had Florence remained with Motown. Probably very much like a David Ruffin affair where Florence would have gotten shuttled to the 2nd and even 3rd tier songwriting/production teams. Some songs tepid, some brilliant. Still, I'm sure the material would have been much more gripping than her ABC output [[The Funk Brothers could make just about anything swing). Still, no matter how good the material, no doubt, the albums would be heard by only the most die-hard fans. Even as I'm saying this, it sounds TOTALLY implausible that any recordings would have come out other than a one-off single on V.I.P. [[because it would be absolutely "illegal" by Motown Law to have Florence share the same label as The Supremes!)

  50. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance View Post
    I often wondered just what that would have sounded like, had Florence remained with Motown. Probably very much like a David Ruffin affair where Florence would have gotten shuttled to the 2nd and even 3rd tier songwriting/production teams. Some songs tepid, some brilliant. Still, I'm sure the material would have been much more gripping than her ABC output [[The Funk Brothers could make just about anything swing). Still, no matter how good the material, no doubt, the albums would be heard by only the most die-hard fans. Even as I'm saying this, it sounds TOTALLY implausible that any recordings would have come out other than a one-off single on V.I.P. [[because it would be absolutely "illegal" by Motown Law to have Florence share the same label as The Supremes!)
    plus Tammi Terrell was on the Motown label. And wasn't Chris Clark also on the motown label? they wouldn't have wanted so many female solo artists on that 1 imprint. so i think you're absolutely right. had Flo stayed, she would have been shifted to a small label and then lingered. Maybe they could have placed her on Soul and had a little success.

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