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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaap View Post
    That live performance is indeed wonderful and would have been a great fit. Interestingly, the Beatles recorded "Eight Days A Week" in the same week as A Bit of Liverpool was released [[16 October 1964).
    and didn't the girls each trade off a lead verse? that was a good one! especially if they used that same approach for the recording

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    and didn't the girls each trade off a lead verse? that was a good one! especially if they used that same approach for the recording
    Eight Days A Week really showcases the fact that when given the right song, Mary and Florence were more then capable of singing lead. Had more of the songs on that album featured shared leads it would have made for a considerably more interesting listening experience.

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    absolutely. all three girls were talented. M and F definitely had the goods. unfortunately they didn't get the opportunity to test, learn and experiment in the studio as Diana did. While i agree that D was the best commercial voice and prefer her being primary lead singer, M and F should definitely have had more sharing of things in album tracks and live.

    I find it so odd that in Enjoy Yourself on the Copa EE that Flo didn't sing her solo verse. While Mary is doing hers, if you listen closely you can hear Diana in the back asking Flo if she's singing. then as they approach verse 3 she says that line about Flo being shy. You'd think Flo would want to sing at every moment possible. Especially since those opportunities were becoming rare.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    absolutely. all three girls were talented. M and F definitely had the goods. unfortunately they didn't get the opportunity to test, learn and experiment in the studio as Diana did. While i agree that D was the best commercial voice and prefer her being primary lead singer, M and F should definitely have had more sharing of things in album tracks and live.

    I find it so odd that in Enjoy Yourself on the Copa EE that Flo didn't sing her solo verse. While Mary is doing hers, if you listen closely you can hear Diana in the back asking Flo if she's singing. then as they approach verse 3 she says that line about Flo being shy. You'd think Flo would want to sing at every moment possible. Especially since those opportunities were becoming rare.
    That's what I never understood. It's been said that Mary and Flo wanted to be showcased more, but yet when an opportunity presented itself, it wasn't taken.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    absolutely. all three girls were talented. M and F definitely had the goods. unfortunately they didn't get the opportunity to test, learn and experiment in the studio as Diana did. While i agree that D was the best commercial voice and prefer her being primary lead singer, M and F should definitely have had more sharing of things in album tracks and live.

    I find it so odd that in Enjoy Yourself on the Copa EE that Flo didn't sing her solo verse. While Mary is doing hers, if you listen closely you can hear Diana in the back asking Flo if she's singing. then as they approach verse 3 she says that line about Flo being shy. You'd think Flo would want to sing at every moment possible. Especially since those opportunities were becoming rare.
    Someone guessed that this recorded when Flo was still hoarse from the flu and that was why she declined. But yeah, if it was one of my only spots, I probably would have went for it nonetheless.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    absolutely. all three girls were talented. M and F definitely had the goods. unfortunately they didn't get the opportunity to test, learn and experiment in the studio as Diana did. While i agree that D was the best commercial voice and prefer her being primary lead singer, M and F should definitely have had more sharing of things in album tracks and live.

    I find it so odd that in Enjoy Yourself on the Copa EE that Flo didn't sing her solo verse. While Mary is doing hers, if you listen closely you can hear Diana in the back asking Flo if she's singing. then as they approach verse 3 she says that line about Flo being shy. You'd think Flo would want to sing at every moment possible. Especially since those opportunities were becoming rare.
    I always noticed that Mary is much more audible on a lot of the Copa tracks and Flo is unusually quiet. I always thought maybe they turned her mic down lower but maybe she was having issues with her voice at this time?

  7. #57
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    i think part of it might also be physical distance to the mic. In those videos from the DRATS european tours, Mary is right at the mic and therefore she's coming through clearly.

    Also the mics were being fed into the recording system in the club, which was sketchy at best. But that sound quality is not what the audience members would necessarily have heard. sitting in the club you'd hear the girls actual voices and the club's sound system. So audience members probably heard DMF as a unit better than we're hearing them on the lp

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Someone guessed that this recorded when Flo was still hoarse from the flu and that was why she declined. But yeah, if it was one of my only spots, I probably would have went for it nonetheless.
    agreed. she might have been slightly hoarse but still. it's not like she was going to sing a complex Puccini aria lol. she was going to sing about 12 measures in 1 song.

    i'm going to speculate here but i would think that would have been part of the brewing frustration with Florence. not trying to get in a D vs F battle. But all three girls were working CRAZY hard and to be onstage at the Copa and Flo can't/won't sing her verse just interrupts the flow of things. Will she, won't she be on tonight? can she pull her weight?

    again, there could be a lot of reasons for her doing this but i could see this being part of the problem. So if she's going to be undependable, why bother to incorporate solo material or solo lines in subsequent songs in the show?

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    agreed. she might have been slightly hoarse but still. it's not like she was going to sing a complex Puccini aria lol. she was going to sing about 12 measures in 1 song.

    i'm going to speculate here but i would think that would have been part of the brewing frustration with Florence. not trying to get in a D vs F battle. But all three girls were working CRAZY hard and to be onstage at the Copa and Flo can't/won't sing her verse just interrupts the flow of things. Will she, won't she be on tonight? can she pull her weight?

    again, there could be a lot of reasons for her doing this but i could see this being part of the problem. So if she's going to be undependable, why bother to incorporate solo material or solo lines in subsequent songs in the show?
    And I think you hit the nail on the head as to why the group became geared more towards Diana, especially after the Copa. It really seemed like Motown was trying to showcase each girl individually right before the Copa: the name dropping in Back In My Arms Again, the three separate photos with signatures on the latest album, etc but I think Flo's unreliability before and during the Copa put a stop to all of that.

  10. #60
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    Berry also has made the comment that Diana was willing to work for it AND sacrifice for it, to reach her star potential. Again, not that M and F didn't work very, very hard. they did. Diana was just compulsive.

    I agree that through 65, it was still relatively inclusive. You had the individual pics and autographs on the album cover, the girls did a lot more 3-part harmony work on the concept albums recorded and released around this time, M and F often had solo numbers in these albums too, they created the initial comedy routine in You're Nobody with Flo's lines during the Paris shows, People was still in the act, etc. A while Diana was the centerpiece, the structure of the group made her shine because M and F were sooooo very good.

    some time in 66 or so, perhaps earlier, things started to slip. Flo was missing from that debutante party performance in Detroit. not sure of the date of that but i believe it was early spring 66. then supposedly she missed some dates prior to the spring 66 Copa gig.

    in the studios, there's the story of her not showing up for the He session in Feb 66. then in July we know she didn't show up to the recording sessions for You Can't Hurry Love and others.

    So things were staring to crack in early 66.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    agreed. she might have been slightly hoarse but still. it's not like she was going to sing a complex Puccini aria lol. she was going to sing about 12 measures in 1 song.

    i'm going to speculate here but i would think that would have been part of the brewing frustration with Florence. not trying to get in a D vs F battle. But all three girls were working CRAZY hard and to be onstage at the Copa and Flo can't/won't sing her verse just interrupts the flow of things. Will she, won't she be on tonight? can she pull her weight?

    again, there could be a lot of reasons for her doing this but i could see this being part of the problem. So if she's going to be undependable, why bother to incorporate solo material or solo lines in subsequent songs in the show?
    I agree. And its actually rather sad. Because instead of trying to find the reason behind the undependability, some probably just focused on the undependability. In the last Taraborrelli book, Gil Askey said that PEOPLE was taken out of the show one night because Flo said she was too hoarse to do it. When he told her that she had to always be ready, she didn't respond well. Diana overheard the conversation and suggested replacing PEOPLE with the SYMPHONY Medley. After that, Gil said that he doesn't recall them doing PEOPLE again.

    Of course, if all of this was happening now, there might have been a different outcome. But back then, they worked those girls to death. Now artists may take two or three years between albums and tours. The Supremes released records year round and were on the road all the time. There probably wasn't a lot of time to just sit and think. Not to say that things with Flo couldn't have been handled much better but a lot was happening in a short period of time.

  12. #62
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    The Supremes' shows, especially the first Copa gig, were rehearsed down to the letter. I don't buy that Florence was ever to take the lead on "Enjoy Yourself". If there was an issue with Flo's voice, and from the harmony I'm not hearing any hoarseness, this would have been worked out before the show even began. Had Flo had trepidation about singing the lead after being sick, Gordy would've either replaced the song with a Diana lead [[as would happen per Gil's anecdote regarding "People" the following year) or told Diana to do Flo's part, at which point I'm sure Diana would have had to go into some "extensive" rehearsing to get down a verse of a song she previously didn't have to do. Since the Supremes have become synonymous with controversy as opposed to singing, we fans have a tendency to read entirely too much into what is probably something very simple. My money is on this being a stage bit to back up the moniker of "the quiet one". Nothing about Flo says she was so unprofessional- especially at this stage of the game, 1965- that she would wait until the very moment she is to open her mouth to sing and then go, "Nah, I'm good". Now if a version of "Enjoy Yourself" surfaces where Flo is singing the part supposedly assigned to her, I'll revisit my thoughts. Until then, this sounds a whole lot like "And for our next number, we'll do a sweet, heartwarming ballad..." before the opening to something like "Hangin On" or "The Happening". Again, I feel like there's nothing to see here.

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    The debutante ball performance was in 1965 and apparently Florence was missing. Florence's grandmother also died that year, so it's entirely possible that Flo was at home with family during that difficult time, as she should have been.

    JRT wrote about Flo missing the "He" recording session, but I question the source. Doesn't make sense. As far as I can tell, none of the groups were used on the tracks for the In Loving Memory album, only the lead singers. Seems like this one was a dramatic purposes story since it doesn't jive with what we know about the actual sessions.

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    Let's just call this entire project what it really was: a money grab. This album was probably not meant to be some great artistic masterpiece. It was just a simple nod to the popular music of the British Invasion and a money grab. And at 850,000 copies sold, wasn't it also the SECOND BEST selling album for Motown in 64'?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    The debutante ball performance was in 1965 and apparently Florence was missing. Florence's grandmother also died that year, so it's entirely possible that Flo was at home with family during that difficult time, as she should have been.

    JRT wrote about Flo missing the "He" recording session, but I question the source. Doesn't make sense. As far as I can tell, none of the groups were used on the tracks for the In Loving Memory album, only the lead singers. Seems like this one was a dramatic purposes story since it doesn't jive with what we know about the actual sessions.
    all very possible. Some of the stories have turned out to be either false or mistaken. And good point about the funeral. not sure of the date and timing but that could certainly be it.

  16. #66
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    I do agree about the He session. the entire album uses a bigger, choral sound. so wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't the session she skipped. the July 4 and 5 one, definitely was one. and based on the data we have, it doesn't appear at though people were anticipating her not being there. with D and M doing the backgrounds on What Becomes and then Marlene coming in the next day. Mary and several other sources do say that Flo did miss shows and studio time. the reason, frequency and exact dates are not mentioned. Was it 2x or 20x? don't know

    As for the Copa instance, i hear you about how tightly controlled and prepared the show was. It is really odd though how the song plays out. Mary does a verse but no flo? and there is the background dialog going on behind Mary while she sings. that's weird. And even weirder is your point - on such an important stage and gig Flo is gonna bail right there on stage? clearly i think that's why the song didn't appear on the lp. seemed like a fun song but they already had Queen of the House. two comedy bits might have been too much.

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    Sorry that I'm keeping this straying from the Liverpool subject. But here are a few fun facts about the Copa only Supremes fans would care about. There did seem to be something askew in "Enjoy Yourself." We edited a big chunk out where there seemed to be confusion as to what was going on. With the edit the song is 4:39. Unedited it's 5:29. We did the same edit that Motown did in 1966 when they were going to use it on the live Roostertail album that got canned. As many of you know that album was going to use 4 tracks that were actually recorded at the Copa in 65. The "Tonight" Medley, Where Did Our Love Go, Nothing But Heartaches and Enjoy Yourself. Kind of surprising considering how wonderful the whole actual concert is from the Roostertail 66. [[In case anyone is in the dark, it's on the I Hear A Symphony Expanded). Also of all of the shows recorded for the Copa [[and I think there were 6) none of the others include "Enjoy Yourself."

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    The Supremes' shows, especially the first Copa gig, were rehearsed down to the letter. I don't buy that Florence was ever to take the lead on "Enjoy Yourself". If there was an issue with Flo's voice, and from the harmony I'm not hearing any hoarseness, this would have been worked out before the show even began. Had Flo had trepidation about singing the lead after being sick, Gordy would've either replaced the song with a Diana lead [[as would happen per Gil's anecdote regarding "People" the following year) or told Diana to do Flo's part, at which point I'm sure Diana would have had to go into some "extensive" rehearsing to get down a verse of a song she previously didn't have to do. Since the Supremes have become synonymous with controversy as opposed to singing, we fans have a tendency to read entirely too much into what is probably something very simple. My money is on this being a stage bit to back up the moniker of "the quiet one". Nothing about Flo says she was so unprofessional- especially at this stage of the game, 1965- that she would wait until the very moment she is to open her mouth to sing and then go, "Nah, I'm good". Now if a version of "Enjoy Yourself" surfaces where Flo is singing the part supposedly assigned to her, I'll revisit my thoughts. Until then, this sounds a whole lot like "And for our next number, we'll do a sweet, heartwarming ballad..." before the opening to something like "Hangin On" or "The Happening". Again, I feel like there's nothing to see here.
    that’s quite an interesting axiom, one possibility that I never considered. That being said, I think it might very well be another reason. Florence had missed quite a bit of COPA rehearsal, And when she came back to New York, she really worked like a dog to catch up. This song seems to me, like some thing that might’ve been introduced perhaps somewhat later than other possibilities for the show. I think this because I don’t think diana or mary do a very good job on their solos, musically they are fine, but the delivery is hardly deft. Flo might have not been down on it enough. I don’t know how much it was in the act after the Copa, but they never did it when I saw them and I, personally, I don’t think it belonged in the act at all. They already had the somewhat sophomoric harmonies of people, and now you have this front porch sing-along frankly I think is beneath the New York sophisticates I would be attending the show. Perhaps it did get into the act, and they learned to perform it in a more seasoned manner, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find out that took it out or rarely performed it.

    also, maybe I’m losing it, but considering the fact that Florence was already smarting about the amount of solo material she was doing, I don’t think that she would have gone along with pretending like she was too shy to sing the only solo she was given. It may have struck too close to home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
    that’s quite an interesting axiom, one possibility that I never considered. That being said, I think it might very well be another reason. Florence had missed quite a bit of COPA rehearsal, And when she came back to New York, she really worked like a dog to catch up. This song seems to me, like some thing that might’ve been introduced perhaps somewhat later than other possibilities for the show. I think this because I don’t think diana or mary do a very good job on their solos, musically they are fine, but the delivery is hardly deft. Flo might have not been down on it enough. I don’t know how much it was in the act after the Copa, but they never did it when I saw them and I, personally, I don’t think it belonged in the act at all. They already had the somewhat sophomoric harmonies of people, and now you have this front porch sing-along frankly I think is beneath the New York sophisticates I would be attending the show. Perhaps it did get into the act, and they learned to perform it in a more seasoned manner, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find out that took it out or rarely performed it.

    also, maybe I’m losing it, but considering the fact that Florence was already smarting about the amount of solo material she was doing, I don’t think that she would have gone along with pretending like she was too shy to sing the only solo she was given. It may have struck too close to home.
    That makes sense that maybe she didn't have time to learn the song. I know they did shows prior to the Copa where Marlene subbed for Flo, one of them being a show in Wildwood NJ. Flo was missing from a press conference a month later in August and that may have been when her grandmother passed because I remember Diana saying Flo was in Detroit for the day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Solomon View Post
    Sorry that I'm keeping this straying from the Liverpool subject. But here are a few fun facts about the Copa only Supremes fans would care about. There did seem to be something askew in "Enjoy Yourself." We edited a big chunk out where there seemed to be confusion as to what was going on. With the edit the song is 4:39. Unedited it's 5:29. We did the same edit that Motown did in 1966 when they were going to use it on the live Roostertail album that got canned. As many of you know that album was going to use 4 tracks that were actually recorded at the Copa in 65. The "Tonight" Medley, Where Did Our Love Go, Nothing But Heartaches and Enjoy Yourself. Kind of surprising considering how wonderful the whole actual concert is from the Roostertail 66. [[In case anyone is in the dark, it's on the I Hear A Symphony Expanded). Also of all of the shows recorded for the Copa [[and I think there were 6) none of the others include "Enjoy Yourself."
    Thanks for this info, George. I wonder what the issues were with Enjoy Yourself that they didn't do it in any of the other recorded shows. Of course, that doesn't mean they didn't do it in the unrecorded shows, but it seems like the kind of song you would do most often in a supper club setting. I wish we had more information behind the thought processes from back then. Why add Copa songs to the Roostertail when it stands on it's own? And what was the reasoning behind the rundown of each show? I love that kind of detailed thought process. I used to run a cabaret room in the summers and had my own reasons for the song lineup of all the artists. I wish Gil Askey or someone had run through the thought process of The Supremes shows.

    And, to keep this on topic, I enjoy the Liverpool album but so many of the tracks feel rushed. One of my favorites was House Of The Rising Sun because it was so unexpected! Also, World Without Love was pretty good. I agree with one of the posters above that having it played by the Funk Brothers might have given it a bit more weight and flow. The team in LA just seemed to knock it out without much flair. And by flair, I mean Motown sound.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thommg View Post
    Thanks for this info, George. I wonder what the issues were with Enjoy Yourself that they didn't do it in any of the other recorded shows. Of course, that doesn't mean they didn't do it in the unrecorded shows, but it seems like the kind of song you would do most often in a supper club setting. I wish we had more information behind the thought processes from back then. Why add Copa songs to the Roostertail when it stands on it's own? And what was the reasoning behind the rundown of each show? I love that kind of detailed thought process. I used to run a cabaret room in the summers and had my own reasons for the song lineup of all the artists. I wish Gil Askey or someone had run through the thought process of The Supremes shows.

    And, to keep this on topic, I enjoy the Liverpool album but so many of the tracks feel rushed. One of my favorites was House Of The Rising Sun because it was so unexpected! Also, World Without Love was pretty good. I agree with one of the posters above that having it played by the Funk Brothers might have given it a bit more weight and flow. The team in LA just seemed to knock it out without much flair. And by flair, I mean Motown sound.
    i think in Randy's book or somewhere it's mentioned that Motown wanted to have the live albums avoid duplicating tracks from previous live albums. similar to how You're Nobody is cut from TOTT

    George - on the night they did Enjoy Yourself did they also do Queen of the House? Was Queen a new song for them with the Copa shows [[or at least in the shows leading up to Copa)?

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    I believe Queen Of The House was in all the recorded shows. I can only assume that it was added to the act while preparing for the Copa since [[unless someone knows otherwise) the song was first recorded in 1965 as a parody to King Of The Road also 1965. Also of note is that Where Did Our Love Go, Nothing But Heartaches and I Am Woman were also only in one of the recorded shows. And yes, I think they were trying to avoid repeating tracks that were already on the Copa LP with the 1966 unreleased Roostertail album.
    About Liverpool. I really like it and each time I play it I enjoy it. But I'm a pretty easy audience when it comes to The Supremes! "How Do You Do It" is obviously tongue in cheek and I think it's cute. Might have been better as the last track on the album rather than the opener. We'd love to expand those early specialty albums. Let's hope someday!

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    Ah... I can just hear George, Andy & Kevin singing "Someday They'll Be Expanded" in reference to the specialty albums. And when these albums finally are, I hope that George, Andy & Kevin will sing a parody of the 1969 hit [[who here wants to write the verses?) in the promo video for the collection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyluckyme View Post
    Ah... I can just hear George, Andy & Kevin singing "Someday They'll Be Expanded" in reference to the specialty albums. And when these albums finally are, I hope that George, Andy & Kevin will sing a parody of the 1969 hit [[who here wants to write the verses?) in the promo video for the collection.
    That's pretty funny!

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Solomon View Post
    I believe Queen Of The House was in all the recorded shows. I can only assume that it was added to the act while preparing for the Copa since [[unless someone knows otherwise) the song was first recorded in 1965 as a parody to King Of The Road also 1965. Also of note is that Where Did Our Love Go, Nothing But Heartaches and I Am Woman were also only in one of the recorded shows. And yes, I think they were trying to avoid repeating tracks that were already on the Copa LP with the 1966 unreleased Roostertail album.
    About Liverpool. I really like it and each time I play it I enjoy it. But I'm a pretty easy audience when it comes to The Supremes! "How Do You Do It" is obviously tongue in cheek and I think it's cute. Might have been better as the last track on the album rather than the opener. We'd love to expand those early specialty albums. Let's hope someday!
    thanks George! love hearing your insights

    now i'm gonna scold you on something lolol When Randy's latest Diana book came you, we all loved your annotations on the discography section. But it [[understandably) doesn't include the 70s Sups albums. At one point you said you thought about doing a rundown of those for us fans. I'm Still Waiting


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    Quote Originally Posted by George Solomon View Post
    I believe Queen Of The House was in all the recorded shows. I can only assume that it was added to the act while preparing for the Copa since [[unless someone knows otherwise) the song was first recorded in 1965 as a parody to King Of The Road also 1965. Also of note is that Where Did Our Love Go, Nothing But Heartaches and I Am Woman were also only in one of the recorded shows. And yes, I think they were trying to avoid repeating tracks that were already on the Copa LP with the 1966 unreleased Roostertail album.
    About Liverpool. I really like it and each time I play it I enjoy it. But I'm a pretty easy audience when it comes to The Supremes! "How Do You Do It" is obviously tongue in cheek and I think it's cute. Might have been better as the last track on the album rather than the opener. We'd love to expand those early specialty albums. Let's hope someday!
    The Supremes didn't perform QOTH in Paris of that year. So maybe it was added for the Copa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i think in Randy's book or somewhere it's mentioned that Motown wanted to have the live albums avoid duplicating tracks from previous live albums. similar to how You're Nobody is cut from TOTT
    Do you mean "Somewhere" instead of "You're Nobody..." as the latter IS included on TOTT? Although the Supremes' version of "Somewhere" is not my favorite [[I prefer Diana's solo rendition from the Live at The Royal Albert Hall concert), but it would have been good if it was included, as it includes the MLK monologue [[like on TCB), which makes it a historical relevant performance!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaap View Post
    Do you mean "Somewhere" instead of "You're Nobody..." as the latter IS included on TOTT? Although the Supremes' version of "Somewhere" is not my favorite [[I prefer Diana's solo rendition from the Live at The Royal Albert Hall concert), but it would have been good if it was included, as it includes the MLK monologue [[like on TCB), which makes it a historical relevant performance!
    sorry - my mistake. yes somewhere at TOTT and then You're Nobody was cut from Farewell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Eight Days A Week really showcases the fact that when given the right song, Mary and Florence were more then capable of singing lead. Had more of the songs on that album featured shared leads it would have made for a considerably more interesting listening experience.
    I loved t album it gave me a chance to hear Mary and flo however undisciplined many feel here I beg to differ it was recorded live, and as far as I'm concerned florence sounded fine they just let her cut loose especially on house of the rising sun and do u love me.. sounding drunk is putting over t top. Flo was a soul singer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by franjoy56 View Post
    I loved t album it gave me a chance to hear Mary and flo however undisciplined many feel here I beg to differ it was recorded live, and as far as I'm concerned florence sounded fine they just let her cut loose especially on house of the rising sun and do u love me.. sounding drunk is putting over t top. Flo was a soul singer.
    Out of all the Supremes albums, i so wish ABOL had contained more shared leads. As RanRan mentioned, Flo’s sassy vocal style would have been perfect for many of the songs. Their shared vocal version of “Eight Days A Week” is terrific.
    Not absolutely certain Diana would have agreed with me, but perhaps she could have been talked around.......There again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Out of all the Supremes albums, i so wish ABOL had contained more shared leads. As RanRan mentioned, Flo’s sassy vocal style would have been perfect for many of the songs. Their shared vocal version of “Eight Days A Week” is terrific.
    Not absolutely certain Diana would have agreed with me, but perhaps she could have been talked around.......There again.
    i agree although there is definitely more group interaction and unison leads than on later concept albums. R&H is obviously a much stronger set but i wish there was a bit more group work.

    I guess with Liverpool, they were in a rush and so tried to keep it simple so they didn't need too many takes

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i agree although there is definitely more group interaction and unison leads than on later concept albums. R&H is obviously a much stronger set but i wish there was a bit more group work.

    I guess with Liverpool, they were in a rush and so tried to keep it simple so they didn't need too many takes
    I agree in that the album was obviously a rush job. Time wise, i don't think Mary or Flo having leads would necessarily have made the recording more complicated.
    Regardless of what we the fans might have wished for, Diana had been designated lead singer and that was that.
    Had there been more shared leads, it might possibly have undermined the public’s perception of Dianas standing within the group. I don’t think it would have, but it is possible.
    I think the album is fun. It’s just the tinny production that lets it down badly.

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    i agree Ollie - i think you could have given a few bits here and there to M and F and not diminished D's presence whatsoever. Like how they did in Breathtaking. or Long Gone Lover. or how they did later with M and C in Ladder. those are excellent ways to still highlight the group without taking any real shine off Diana

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    I'm not a big fan of Florence's sound...being able to sing loud doesn't mean being able to sing good....but I think Do You Love Me? would have been an excellent choice for her....since Mary is so prominent on BECAUSE, I will count that as her solo here.
    As far as quality goes World Without Love is the harmony winner here. You Can't Do That is a excellent Ross vocal, and there is a raw, garage rock band charm to the vocal arrangements for House of The Rising Sun and A Hard Days Night.

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    Ah, yes, because those of us who love Flo's voice love it because it's...loud.

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    i get what gman is saying. simply having a big full voice doesn't make you a great singer. there's a lot more to it than that. Mary sometimes compares Flo to Aretha and i'm like WTF?!?!? we have about 30 - 40 songs with Flo on lead and on only a handful does she really shine IMO. I think her Good News is amazing and hints at she COULD have been developed. But listening to some of her other tracks, it's just not there.

    great singer can take a crap song and still make it sound good. or at least their voice still sounds good.

    Flo leads suffered from intonation issues, vowel placement and phrasing.

    Again, Good News shows what could happen. and had she had the studio time like Diana did, she could very well have honed her craft

    As for Queen of Soul, i think she came out of the womb singing like that lolol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i get what gman is saying. simply having a big full voice doesn't make you a great singer. there's a lot more to it than that. Mary sometimes compares Flo to Aretha and i'm like WTF?!?!? we have about 30 - 40 songs with Flo on lead and on only a handful does she really shine IMO. I think her Good News is amazing and hints at she COULD have been developed. But listening to some of her other tracks, it's just not there.

    Flo leads suffered from intonation issues, vowel placement and phrasing.

    Again, Good News shows what could happen. and had she had the studio time like Diana did, she could very well have honed her craft
    Agree. I love Florence on Good News, Buttered Popcorn and Silent Night [[wish this had been worked on more).

    As for Queen of Soul, i think she came out of the womb singing like that lolol.
    LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i get what gman is saying. simply having a big full voice doesn't make you a great singer. there's a lot more to it than that. Mary sometimes compares Flo to Aretha and i'm like WTF?!?!? we have about 30 - 40 songs with Flo on lead and on only a handful does she really shine IMO. I think her Good News is amazing and hints at she COULD have been developed. But listening to some of her other tracks, it's just not there.

    great singer can take a crap song and still make it sound good. or at least their voice still sounds good.

    Flo leads suffered from intonation issues, vowel placement and phrasing.

    Again, Good News shows what could happen. and had she had the studio time like Diana did, she could very well have honed her craft

    As for Queen of Soul, i think she came out of the womb singing like that lolol.
    No, it doesn't make one a great singer, but it's a bit condescending to suggest that is why someone like myself, a huge fan of Flo Ballard's voice, digs it, because it's loud. I love Flo's voice because I do. It's beautiful. It's soulful. I like her approach to some of her lead work. I enjoy her phrasing on certain songs. I enjoy her harmony work. In my book she's fantastic for all of these reasons, not because she's...loud. Is she everyone's cup of tea? Of course not. But then we largely have threads about a woman- Diana Ross- who might be one of the most legendary polarizing voices in the history of music. It may be hard to tell by a lot of our opinions in this forum, but there are people out there who hear Diana Ross and do not hear the greatness we do. That's life.

    As for Flo and Aretha, I've only heard Mary compare Flo to Ree in the terms she did in Dreamgirl, where she says Flo's style was similar in the way they attacked a song and made it their own. Of course this would not be out of the ordinary for a Black female of the time, with origins in gospel and blues, and growing up with the emerging sound of R&B. A number of singers during that day could be compared to Aretha, although the Queen will always come out on top.

    Because like you, I believe Aretha was born with that soulful crown. Her baby cries probably sent shivers down folks' spines. Lol

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