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  1. #101
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    the whole marketing and release schedule around Force was a clusterfuck. I saw her show in Columbus Ohio with her tour but you couldn't get the album yet!! there was some delay with getting it out there and so the tour schedule didn't sync with the cd release

    then in Randy's book he talks about the fact they would release a song then abandon it and release another one.

    i completely agree with you regarding WO. MAYBE had the used Bottom Line as the lead single, the project could have been somewhat salvaged. it's still a bad album but she probably would have at least charted with BL. I definitely think top 40, maybe squeak into the top 20. and dance and r&b would have done well. She wouldn't have been enjoying chart hits like in 1980 and 81 but at least she would have bombing.

  2. #102
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    When I first heard the album, WO, « Bottom Line » had me humming along on the first listen. It was catchy. It was sassy. A real follow up to « Upside Down ». And if it had been given a bit of a dance-disco remix especially... I would imagine it might have reached the top 20 US Pop chart. Diana was still current at that point, and so many people, in the industry and with the general public, wanted her to come back with a bang. The actual lead single killed the whole thing.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafalle View Post
    Motown were not interested in pushing her and she wasn’t interested in pushing herself. As far as the general public we’re concerned, she had married a Norwegian billionaire, had the two boys, tried to come back with « Workin’ Overtime », failed, failed again when she popped up again for the « Return To Love » fiasco, got busted, and then retired! Phew!
    Perhaps that should read as far as the AMERICAN public were concerned Rafalle. Throughout Europe Diana was still clocking up the hits and much in demand. Other then with WO, i don’t think she can really be accused of not promoting her latest singles. She worked hard promoting “Take Me Higher” on American tv but still the USA refused to bite.

  4. #104
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    in the US there is a sort of "shelf life" to an artist. It's one thing for an artist that was popular with your big brother or sister to reinvent themselves and appeal to the younger siblings.

    it's another thing though for someone your PARENTS listened to [[or worse your grandparents!!) to break through with the current teen market. not impossible but very very challenging. especially for women

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    in the US there is a sort of "shelf life" to an artist. It's one thing for an artist that was popular with your big brother or sister to reinvent themselves and appeal to the younger siblings.

    it's another thing though for someone your PARENTS listened to [[or worse your grandparents!!) to break through with the current teen market. not impossible but very very challenging. especially for women
    Its interesting to compare the different mindsets of both countries. The UK seems always to have remained loyal to veteran artists.
    Having said that, in this instance the American public suddenly turning cold on Diana may not have been entirely an age thing. During the early 80’s and just prior to the DG book she was generally clocking up more hits in America then in the UK. It’s a well trodden road, but given her enduring popularity at the time, i have never really believed that age was that big a factor in the sudden and dramatic turnaround of her popularity.

  6. #106
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    I had a discussion with a friend at RCA back in 1985 when they were initially having a hard time promoting "Missing You" to the pop market. He said, "She's like 40 years old!" When I said, it shouldn't matter because she sounds and looks great. He agreed but said, "that might be the case but she's been around forever and it's getting harder to sell her to pop radio." Imagine that... 40 years old. I'd kill for 40! LOL.

  7. #107
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    Tina, Barbra, Cher, Patti all managed it thru’ the 80s. When RCA dropped her from their Pop promo list, after « Eaten Alive », awful song, unnecessarily smutty, ruined by Barry Gibb’s horrendous screeching, it was an admission that there was no point in carrying on. Diana kept on making terrible artistic decisions, no one could tell her otherwise, and she wouldn’t get out there and sell herself as a sweetie anymore. Part of her success in the early 70s was due to the fact that she was America’s first Black sweetheart: she was gorgeous, just so nice and sexy too. By 85, when she did appear on TV, she had her mane of unbrushed hair and her strident replies to questions. The only real exception was TMH: perfect lead single, cool video, Beautiful hair and oh so sexy little black dress, super hot appearance on Letterman. And Motown did promote it on the dance charts, with no1 success. But they didn’t bother pushing it to pop radio. There had been too many years of arguing for them to want it to do well.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Solomon View Post
    I had a discussion with a friend at RCA back in 1985 when they were initially having a hard time promoting "Missing You" to the pop market. He said, "She's like 40 years old!" When I said, it shouldn't matter because she sounds and looks great. He agreed but said, "that might be the case but she's been around forever and it's getting harder to sell her to pop radio." Imagine that... 40 years old. I'd kill for 40! LOL.
    Its a real sexist world. Nobody called Mick Jagger old or said hes been around forever.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Solomon View Post
    I had a discussion with a friend at RCA back in 1985 when they were initially having a hard time promoting "Missing You" to the pop market. He said, "She's like 40 years old!" When I said, it shouldn't matter because she sounds and looks great. He agreed but said, "that might be the case but she's been around forever and it's getting harder to sell her to pop radio." Imagine that... 40 years old. I'd kill for 40! LOL.
    Its funny, but I remember when 40 seemed very old indeed lol. Time waits for no man.
    Regarding age and pop appeal, it’s worth noting that the previous year at a very mature [[in pop years) 39, Diana managed one top ten and two top twenty USA single hits. “Telephone” reached 13 on the R&B chart and “Swept Away”managed a very respectable top thirty placing.
    Given the fact that Diana was not just another singer, but in fact an esteemed American music icon, then surely her sudden fall from grace encompassed a lot more then just hitting the big four ‘O’.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Its funny, but I remember when 40 seemed very old indeed lol. Time waits for no man.
    Regarding age and pop appeal, it’s worth noting that the previous year at a very mature [[in pop years) 39, Diana managed one top ten and two top twenty USA single hits. “Telephone” reached 13 on the R&B chart and “Swept Away”managed a very respectable top thirty placing.
    Given the fact that Diana was not just another singer, but in fact an esteemed American music icon, then surely her sudden fall from grace encompassed a lot more then just hitting the big four ‘O’.
    Diana was 40-41 during the "Swept Away" era. She was 39 when "Ross", a flop, came out.

    She was also dealing with the fallout of Motown 25, the PR baggage after doing the second Central Park concert and other issues. When Eaten Alive came out, RCA had a hard time selling it because folks were growing tired of the Bee Gees, a little tired of MJ and didn't know what to do with Diana.

    Maybe if Lionel Richie had fully produced "Eaten Alive" and released it under a different title, it would've continued her success in the '80s. Like it was said, Tina, Barbra, Cher, Patti [[and Aretha) managed to survive the changing times in ways Diana didn't.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Diana was 40-41 during the "Swept Away" era. She was 39 when "Ross", a flop, came out.

    She was also dealing with the fallout of Motown 25, the PR baggage after doing the second Central Park concert and other issues. When Eaten Alive came out, RCA had a hard time selling it because folks were growing tired of the Bee Gees, a little tired of MJ and didn't know what to do with Diana.

    Maybe if Lionel Richie had fully produced "Eaten Alive" and released it under a different title, it would've continued her success in the '80s. Like it was said, Tina, Barbra, Cher, Patti [[and Aretha) managed to survive the changing times in ways Diana didn't.
    Yes, she was 40 in 84, a veteran artist but still racking up hit singles. That was my point. “Chain Reaction’ was a smash hit all over the world. Even as the second single after the fluff of EA it still managed to reach the top position in the UK. It was simply that good. After SA, the American record buying public turned their collective backs on her and never stopped to look back. For a music icon it was a drastic turnaround. I have never really thought it was just an age thing.

  12. #112
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    I’ve said it before, Diana forgot what made her famous in the first place. She mistakenly thought it was only and all about her. When she began to figure it out, it was too late. It was over.

    Ross traveled the road as a superstar, a has-been, and now a classic artist.
    Last edited by Circa 1824; 08-10-2020 at 08:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SatansBlues View Post
    I think Diana has an overlooked spiritual side to her that people seem to miss. I grew up in a Baptist church in Michigan during the 80's, and right before our benediction, we would sing a verse of Reach Out and Touch while holding hands with people sitting around us so that everyone in the church is connected at that moment in service. Diana is not and has never been a gospel diva like Aretha or Patti, but she gets her point across with songs that touch upon her spirituality side.
    Her grandfather was a preacher. She has said that she saw herself going into the ministry at some point. I think she's always had it in her to inspire. There's no telling how much good she might do if she actually did pursue this, especially if she were willing to be honest and forthright about her own life and experiences. There are a lot of young women she may be able to reach. Until then, Diana has always seemed to gravitate toward inspirational messages in her songs. While there was a point in time when I personally didn't care for these types of songs [[I remember when I used to hate "Reach Out and Touch", now it's one of my absolute favs), I love many of them today.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Its funny, but I remember when 40 seemed very old indeed lol. Time waits for no man.
    Regarding age and pop appeal, it’s worth noting that the previous year at a very mature [[in pop years) 39, Diana managed one top ten and two top twenty USA single hits. “Telephone” reached 13 on the R&B chart and “Swept Away”managed a very respectable top thirty placing.
    Given the fact that Diana was not just another singer, but in fact an esteemed American music icon, then surely her sudden fall from grace encompassed a lot more then just hitting the big four ‘O’.
    Yeah, it's called "Her music stinks, she's been around for 20 years, and there are younger, more relevant women taking up the slack Diana's suck years have left us with.".

    Remember, until 1964, Diana [[and the Supremes) were irrelevant to the world of music, and then BOOM! 1964 comes and they tiptoe into relevancy with "Lovelight" and then explode with "Where". From 1964-1970, there was never a year when Diana's voice wasn't on a number one record. Motown basically bungled the singles for 1971, but the following year she had a hit movie and a hit soundtrack to go along with it. 1973 brought her success with the Marvin duets and TMITM, including another #1. She managed another hit with "Last Time" later that year, but the album wasn't well received. 1975 brings another hit movie and a #1 hit to go along with it. The following year brings "Love Hangover" and then the launching of a major stage show that eventually makes it way to television and Broadway. While Baby It's Me ended up a critical success but was devoid of hit records, and Ross 78 was almost unnecessary, The Boss took off. And then of course, the year after that, 1980, saw diana80 and it's huge success, in addition to the success of "It's My Turn". In 1981 Diana left Motown with one of the biggest selling songs of the year in "Endless Love". At RCA, Diana largely allowed her talents to be misused on songs that did not fit her [[my opinion, but I stand by it), yet she still managed to have hit records in 1981, 1982, 1984 and 1985, with two or three major selling albums. Most women in the industry would have killed for this kind of resume. But then EA happens, and she follows that up with RHRAB, whose album contents didn't exactly live up to the title of the album. She takes the largest break of her career and then reappears with WO. Meanwhile, during that break, Whitney and Janet and Jody and Madonna and a slew of other younger, trendsetting ladies were ruling the charts. Diana's goose was cooked.

    So was it "40" pushing her out? I think it's a combo of that. Had she been ten years younger, I think the industry and the public may have forgiven her duds and absence and accepted her if she was making music that the public found generally good. But she wasn't 30, she was over 40, and the music wasn't largely well thought of. EA could have been forgiven had she rebounded with a much more relevant type album than RHRAB, working with current hitmaking producers, and then from there it would've been interesting to see how long Diana could prolong her relevancy. But she was way past the point where she could be forgiven 2 dud albums, horrible singles, a long break, and then rebound with another dud album and questionable singles. While Sup is exactly right, the US has a weird thing about shelf life for most artists, Diana's shelf life was shortened by her own horrible career decisions.

    I still maintain Mary Wilson's book had nothing to do with it.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafalle View Post
    Tina, Barbra, Cher, Patti all managed it thru’ the 80s.
    And they all did so by keeping themselves relevant and staying true to themselves at the same time. At RCA Diana floated between her normal lane and trying to compete with the new kids. One can forgive her trying to compete- it's a business after all- but where Patti found producers who could give her relevant music and still keep her Patti, Diana didn't do that. Sometimes she was almost unrecognizable. I don't know if the four women you mention were managing themselves, but Diana was making all of her creative decisions. Contrast that to the period of her career when she wasn't totally in charge of decisions and you get an idea of what really went wrong. Some people have no business managing themselves.

  16. #116
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    She had no business managing herself! It’s true. But we all love her so much, and we could see that if Berry hadn’t been so abusive - emotionally, psychologically and financially, then she most probably wouldn’t have needed to or wanted to. By the time that she stopped worrying about costs and micromanaging everything and started leaving decisions to others, say by 1991, the record industry, at RCA and then Motown had decided she was a goner. It must have been a very tough time for her. Over in the U.K, EMI always treated her like the pop royalty she is and the chart results speak for themselves.

  17. #117
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    i think it was a combination of things that impacted her sales 1984 and on

    1. poor quality of music - let's face it. the SA album is only so-so and after that, she released 3 that are questionable. yes, yes. Some people really enjoyed EA but even they can recognize that many don't.

    2. Image issues: vulnerability and humility - people are willing to stick with someone they feel has some degree of humility. Cher, Tina, Dolly all have a loyal fan following partially because of their personality. they've certainly had their share of public struggles and so fans respond positively to this and root them on. Diana most certainly has had struggles too. Ablack woman in the 60s can't became one of the biggest pop without facing insurmountable pushback, racism and headwinds. But Diana has a very structured facade and doesn't really allow vulnerability to show through.

    3. Image issues: being a bitch - again, i don't really believe this but her "Wicked Witch" public persona has probably come back to haunt her. she's demanding. she can be tough with employees and staff. she started that whole "Confidentiality Agreement" concept. etc. And then she's on the stage compelling people to hold hands, sway back and forth, spreading love. Some people can take that as insincerity or fake. Frankly i'm sure if you went into Tina's or Cher's organization, there's high pressure and stress too. It's just that people have made it into a major issue with Diana, for instance Mary's book DreamGirl.

    4. all pop music in the US has a lifespan - as i mentioned above, the US is very, very fickle with it's pop entertainment. Older stars rarely get the same treatment they did when younger, especially women. yes it's unfair. yes it's ageist. yes it's sexist. But yes it's the reality.

    5. AIDS - i've always wondered about this element. Diana always had a huge gay following. A year or so ago i saw a heart wrenching picture of the San Francisco Gay Men's Chorus. The choir was all dressed in black except 2 or so guys. the guys not in black represented the few that are still alive. chilling. And friends in the music industry mention how whole swaths of the creative world were simply decimated. The choreography and dance industries. A huge amount of the men that studied and played organ. it's just appalling. So given her popularity with the gay audience and especially with african american gay men [[which as a population faced higher rates of death from AIDS), i wonder how that impacted things. sure Cher, Tina, Barbra had huge gay followings too. Cher has mentioned how the gay population was critical to her long-term success. how even in her "dark years" the gays were still there buying her records and attending her shows. With a generation severely reduced by a pandemic, did that impact her following?

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i think it was a combination of things that impacted her sales 1984 and on

    1. poor quality of music - let's face it. the SA album is only so-so and after that, she released 3 that are questionable. yes, yes. Some people really enjoyed EA but even they can recognize that many don't.

    2. Image issues: vulnerability and humility - people are willing to stick with someone they feel has some degree of humility. Cher, Tina, Dolly all have a loyal fan following partially because of their personality. they've certainly had their share of public struggles and so fans respond positively to this and root them on. Diana most certainly has had struggles too. Ablack woman in the 60s can't became one of the biggest pop without facing insurmountable pushback, racism and headwinds. But Diana has a very structured facade and doesn't really allow vulnerability to show through.

    3. Image issues: being a bitch - again, i don't really believe this but her "Wicked Witch" public persona has probably come back to haunt her. she's demanding. she can be tough with employees and staff. she started that whole "Confidentiality Agreement" concept. etc. And then she's on the stage compelling people to hold hands, sway back and forth, spreading love. Some people can take that as insincerity or fake. Frankly i'm sure if you went into Tina's or Cher's organization, there's high pressure and stress too. It's just that people have made it into a major issue with Diana, for instance Mary's book DreamGirl.

    4. all pop music in the US has a lifespan - as i mentioned above, the US is very, very fickle with it's pop entertainment. Older stars rarely get the same treatment they did when younger, especially women. yes it's unfair. yes it's ageist. yes it's sexist. But yes it's the reality.

    5. AIDS - i've always wondered about this element. Diana always had a huge gay following. A year or so ago i saw a heart wrenching picture of the San Francisco Gay Men's Chorus. The choir was all dressed in black except 2 or so guys. the guys not in black represented the few that are still alive. chilling. And friends in the music industry mention how whole swaths of the creative world were simply decimated. The choreography and dance industries. A huge amount of the men that studied and played organ. it's just appalling. So given her popularity with the gay audience and especially with african american gay men [[which as a population faced higher rates of death from AIDS), i wonder how that impacted things. sure Cher, Tina, Barbra had huge gay followings too. Cher has mentioned how the gay population was critical to her long-term success. how even in her "dark years" the gays were still there buying her records and attending her shows. With a generation severely reduced by a pandemic, did that impact her following?
    of course AIDS hurt all of the entertainment industry and killed many great artists. I lived through that era, and was so disappointed Ross stayed silent for years on an illness that directly impacted a core segment of her loyal fan base. The older Ross likes and appreciates her fans, but I never got the impression the younger Ross did.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Yeah, it's called "Her music stinks, she's been around for 20 years, and there are younger, more relevant women taking up the slack Diana's suck years have left us with.".

    Remember, until 1964, Diana [[and the Supremes) were irrelevant to the world of music, and then BOOM! 1964 comes and they tiptoe into relevancy with "Lovelight" and then explode with "Where". From 1964-1970, there was never a year when Diana's voice wasn't on a number one record. Motown basically bungled the singles for 1971, but the following year she had a hit movie and a hit soundtrack to go along with it. 1973 brought her success with the Marvin duets and TMITM, including another #1. She managed another hit with "Last Time" later that year, but the album wasn't well received. 1975 brings another hit movie and a #1 hit to go along with it. The following year brings "Love Hangover" and then the launching of a major stage show that eventually makes it way to television and Broadway. While Baby It's Me ended up a critical success but was devoid of hit records, and Ross 78 was almost unnecessary, The Boss took off. And then of course, the year after that, 1980, saw diana80 and it's huge success, in addition to the success of "It's My Turn". In 1981 Diana left Motown with one of the biggest selling songs of the year in "Endless Love". At RCA, Diana largely allowed her talents to be misused on songs that did not fit her [[my opinion, but I stand by it), yet she still managed to have hit records in 1981, 1982, 1984 and 1985, with two or three major selling albums. Most women in the industry would have killed for this kind of resume. But then EA happens, and she follows that up with RHRAB, whose album contents didn't exactly live up to the title of the album. She takes the largest break of her career and then reappears with WO. Meanwhile, during that break, Whitney and Janet and Jody and Madonna and a slew of other younger, trendsetting ladies were ruling the charts. Diana's goose was cooked.

    So was it "40" pushing her out? I think it's a combo of that. Had she been ten years younger, I think the industry and the public may have forgiven her duds and absence and accepted her if she was making music that the public found generally good. But she wasn't 30, she was over 40, and the music wasn't largely well thought of. EA could have been forgiven had she rebounded with a much more relevant type album than RHRAB, working with current hitmaking producers, and then from there it would've been interesting to see how long Diana could prolong her relevancy. But she was way past the point where she could be forgiven 2 dud albums, horrible singles, a long break, and then rebound with another dud album and questionable singles. While Sup is exactly right, the US has a weird thing about shelf life for most artists, Diana's shelf life was shortened by her own horrible career decisions.

    I still maintain Mary Wilson's book had nothing to do with it.
    Interesting posts from everyone. From 81/83 and as a veteran artist, the public did forgive her quite a few stinkers. Those first two RCA albums were salvaged only by a couple of decent songs.
    I still don’t understand why “Chain Reaction” was ignored. It was her most ultra commercial sounding song in quite some time. The video is questionably her most exciting ever and it was a major hit all around the globe. The fact that the silly EA single proceeded it seemed to matter little elsewhere. The USA had suddenly fallen out of love with her with an axe to grind. I don’t see age as being to much of an issue as Swept Away and it’s subsequent singles did rather well. All at the grand old age of 40.
    I cant quire remember if the book was released prior to the Eaten Alive album.

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    RCA had fallen out of love with her. When MTV were unenthusiastic about adding « Eaten Alive » to their playlists RCA could have called in a few favours. They didn’t. After all the arguments they had had with Diana about SE, R, SA and now EA, they decided to call it quits. She could see out her contract and go. There was no point in throwing good money after bad. « Eaten Alive » was the first lead single by Diana that was not serviced to pop radio. From then on, the American public didn’t, generally, know when she had a new record out. They were no longer played. And she was almost never on TV. RCA got her back for messing with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Yes, she was 40 in 84, a veteran artist but still racking up hit singles. That was my point. “Chain Reaction’ was a smash hit all over the world. Even as the second single after the fluff of EA it still managed to reach the top position in the UK. It was simply that good. After SA, the American record buying public turned their collective backs on her and never stopped to look back. For a music icon it was a drastic turnaround. I have never really thought it was just an age thing.
    It wasn't age that got Diana. It was probably the fact that she managed herself after leaving Motown. When you're as ambitious running your own company, it could either be great or tragic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Interesting posts from everyone. From 81/83 and as a veteran artist, the public did forgive her quite a few stinkers. Those first two RCA albums were salvaged only by a couple of decent songs.
    I still don’t understand why “Chain Reaction” was ignored. It was her most ultra commercial sounding song in quite some time. The video is questionably her most exciting ever and it was a major hit all around the globe. The fact that the silly EA single proceeded it seemed to matter little elsewhere. The USA had suddenly fallen out of love with her with an axe to grind. I don’t see age as being to much of an issue as Swept Away and it’s subsequent singles did rather well. All at the grand old age of 40.
    I cant quire remember if the book was released prior to the Eaten Alive album.
    Age wasn't an issue at the time of Swept Away because Diana had maintained relevancy every year since 1964. I don't think anyone is suggesting that the industry, or more importantly the US public, woke up on the day Diana turned 40something and said "Well that's that. She's 40+ now. Time to move on." The fear for a lot of artists is that if they're out of the public's mind for too long, it becomes "out of sight, out of mind", and it's more of a bet that if an artist reaches "out of sight, out of mind" status, it is hella difficult to come back from that, at least here in the states. One false move for most artist will relegate them to "has been" status. Usually the biggest stars are given grace, and for a long time that's what Diana was given whenever she released something like "Pieces Of Ice". But grace doesn't last forever.

    After Swept Away lp, and the two big hits she had from that project, she released two albums that added nothing positive to her legacy. While "Eaten Alive" was a big hit on the R&B charts [[probably because of the combo of Ross and MJ more than anything), the EA project as a whole sunk quickly. RHRAB didn't do much either. Then there was the break. Now no one can criticize her for taking time off here. The lady had two children in a ten month period for goodness sakes. But when she came back it was with WO. The title track was big with R&B audiences, but she couldn't duplicate that success with any other track on the album. And pop audiences ignored the song, the album, the whole comeback.

    Diana's return to Motown was not treated with the fanfare it deserved. She should have been hellbent on returning to the public, back at home, with an album that would blow people's minds. She didn't do that and the public rolled their eyes and turned their attention to other ladies in the game who were serving up what the public wanted. Again, if Diana was even ten years younger, she may have been allowed to rebound from this. But at 40something? No way. She would've needed a miracle, and honestly I think she was in position to get herself one but she didn't go after it. Personally I feel that had she eventually done an album with Babyface, Narada, Jam and Lewis, definitely recorded more Masser, people who could craft the kinds of cuts that scream Diana but to a new generation, she may have been able to get over the hump. And then there's my theory that had she gone the route that Natalie Cole did in the 90s, she would've definitely continued to score.

    I don't know why "Chain Reaction" died not one death, but two in the US. The only thing I can come up with is what some others suggests, which is that it's too much Gibb. However, to my ears the song is so solidly commercial that even too much of that whine shouldn't have been enough to kill it. Perhaps the biggest mystery of Ross' solo career.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    And they all did so by keeping themselves relevant and staying true to themselves at the same time. At RCA Diana floated between her normal lane and trying to compete with the new kids. One can forgive her trying to compete- it's a business after all- but where Patti found producers who could give her relevant music and still keep her Patti, Diana didn't do that. Sometimes she was almost unrecognizable. I don't know if the four women you mention were managing themselves, but Diana was making all of her creative decisions. Contrast that to the period of her career when she wasn't totally in charge of decisions and you get an idea of what really went wrong. Some people have no business managing themselves.
    Tina had Roger Davies. Patti had her husband Armstead, who without her, her career wouldn't have really took off after she left Labelle. I don't know who was managing Barbra or Cher.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafalle View Post
    RCA had fallen out of love with her. When MTV were unenthusiastic about adding « Eaten Alive » to their playlists RCA could have called in a few favours. They didn’t. After all the arguments they had had with Diana about SE, R, SA and now EA, they decided to call it quits. She could see out her contract and go. There was no point in throwing good money after bad. « Eaten Alive » was the first lead single by Diana that was not serviced to pop radio. From then on, the American public didn’t, generally, know when she had a new record out. They were no longer played. And she was almost never on TV. RCA got her back for messing with them.
    I did recall Diana and RCA bumping heads. As Rick Bueche said, when Diana was at Motown, she got the preferential treatment and was the preferred artist. At RCA, she was just another recording artist. Diana and Motown would bump heads but they would always come through with her. Even as Motown was "falling", they were able to give her the best producers. At RCA, Diana wanted who she wanted and wouldn't settle for less, even going so far to produce herself on some songs [[first two RCA albums).

    Also I agree that as albums, Eaten Alive and Red Hot Rhythm & Blues didn't tickle anyone's fancy. Diana's career dropped like an anvil with those songs, surprisingly after the success of "Swept Away". I didn't get why "Chain Reaction" DIDN'T become a hit in the U.S. though. But maybe RCA wanted that song to be the leading single and Diana wanted "Eaten Alive" to be one. Usually, if you're arguing over the leading single, that's a sign your album's not gonna go well.
    Last edited by midnightman; 08-12-2020 at 12:01 PM.

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    What happened to Diana is the same thing that happens to EVERY artist after a certain age, plain in simple, male and female.

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    if the music Diana had been releasing at RCA had been truly magical AND had it been megahuge hit-wise, PERHAPS things would have played out differently in the mid 80s for her

    SA did pretty good. better than Ross but i wouldn't exactly label it a MEGA HIT. it charted in the US at #26 which is ok but not a smash. it was released in Sept 84 just before Madonna released the Virgin album. that was such a hot new artist and sound and that album was MASSIVE.

    during 84 you also had Prince breaking into big time, Cyndi Lauper, Van Halen, Culture Club. Duran Duran. so many new, interesting artists.

    The in Feb 85 you have Whitney's debut album

    so here's DR doing a decent album with SA and then two mediocre albums with EA and RHRAB. and there's any wonder or question about why the US public drifted away from her?

    the only way DR could have stood her ground against this onslaught of extremely popular and influential music is if she was releasing true masterpieces.

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    For those who think it was just her age, which songs from 1985-95 would've hit for y'all in the United States?

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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    For those who think it was just her age, which songs from 1985-95 would've hit for y'all in the United States?
    You could ask the same question to Tina Turner, Aretha Franklin, Gladys Knight, Patti Labelle, Paul McCartney, Bruce Springfield, Stevie Wonder, Smokey Robinson, Barbara Streisand....

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    the only way DR could have stood her ground against this onslaught of extremely popular and influential music is if she was releasing true masterpieces.
    Exactly. Why she didn't understand this is anyone's guess. For someone so competitive, she was beating herself instead of looking to beat the competition. I don't get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    For those who think it was just her age, which songs from 1985-95 would've hit for y'all in the United States?
    I'm not the target of your question, but I'm gonna answer anyway: Almost None. As I said before, I'm a bit surprised that "Chain Reaction" in the US didn't mirror the success of the song from around the world. And I also think that had "Take Me Higher" been recorded and released in the 1991-93 period, it may have done very well. But by 1995 those kinds of songs were not in favor with the general public. "If We Hold On Together" was apparently some kind of special release, but had it been pushed as a real single, I think it could have become a pop hit, especially tying it to The Land Before Time which was a box office hit. But were any of these "sure things"? Nah. Diana needed a certain kind of attention from producers who knew their shit. She didn't connect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SatansBlues View Post
    You could ask the same question to Tina Turner, Aretha Franklin, Gladys Knight, Patti Labelle, Paul McCartney, Bruce Springfield, Stevie Wonder, Smokey Robinson, Barbara Streisand....
    Tina and Patti reinvented themselves and had uber successful careers post 40. Tina released an album in 1999 that went gold...and she was 60 freakin years old. Patti was gold through the 90s. Aretha had this unique ability to flop several times before bouncing back. Stevie's last album in 2005 went gold and top 5. Smokey Robinson was 47 or 48 when he had his last two big hits. Bruce Springsteen had a platinum album as late as 2009. All of these folks were her musical contemporaries, and most of them were around her age, yet they were able to extend their success, in most cases, further than Diana did. Now of course when I say further, I'm talking about at the point that Diana stopped. Obviously from start to finish Diana Ross is one of the all time most successful recording artist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Tina and Patti reinvented themselves and had uber successful careers post 40. Tina released an album in 1999 that went gold...and she was 60 freakin years old. Patti was gold through the 90s. Aretha had this unique ability to flop several times before bouncing back. Stevie's last album in 2005 went gold and top 5. Smokey Robinson was 47 or 48 when he had his last two big hits. Bruce Springsteen had a platinum album as late as 2009. All of these folks were her musical contemporaries, and most of them were around her age, yet they were able to extend their success, in most cases, further than Diana did. Now of course when I say further, I'm talking about at the point that Diana stopped. Obviously from start to finish Diana Ross is one of the all time most successful recording artist.
    I'm not sure why people hold Diana Ross's career to a different standard when it comes to her career- singles, albums. No artist stays in the top 10 forever, popular/current music is never static, new music and artists enter the scene everyday, people love the latest and the greatest. Most artists today can only dream of the success and longevity of Diana Ross's musical career. But you cannot deny the fact that the Top 100 charts and Album charts is and has been for the longest of time, been dominated by the newer artists and songs that appeal to a younger record buying/downloading/streaming artists. Look at what just happened to Celine Dion last album, it debuted at #1 on the chart it's first week, and by the second week it had dropped out of the TOP 200!!!

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    i would have ditched EA except Chained Reaction could have been saved for RHRAB

    the vast majority of the EA set was garbage IMO. the songs have promise but the production and execution were dreadful. So taek Chained and toss the rest

    in 86 and 87, there was a resurgence in 50s/60s pop with Stand By Me, Dirty Dancing and other movies. Ferris Bueller danced to Twist and Shout. etc.

    I realize that Diana's biggest nightmare was to be considered an "oldies" but fact remains she was in her early to mid 40s at this time. so if the general public was reflecting on the past, she should have used this as an opportunity to reach back and also look forward. had the RHRAB set really been about the history of influential black artists, she could have maybe played that up. do a few of her fav tunes [[like There Goes My Baby), some classics [[like Tell Mama) and then some appropriate modern songs. Dirty Looks is not one of those lol. Shockwaves and Chain Reaction are though. So you have her doing a bit of a retrospective [[which was timely), reinterpreting some wonderful songs from the past and then releasing CR as a modern take on classic R&B

    not sure that would have been a mega hit here in the states but MAYBE it would have worked.

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    then in the early 90s, i think she needed to ditch the sentimental/inspirational garbage. I already listed some of the songs i'd skip - Force, One Shining Moment, Best Years of my Life, etc.

    I call these the Oprah singalong songs. DR was on that damn show all the time to debut another one of this drek and there you have Oprah lifting her arms in the air, swaying along

    looking over the #1 hits of 1991, i think it would be VERY challenging for Diana to break through. You had tons of HUGE Mariah songs at the time, Madonna's Justify My Love, some Whitney, Janet Jackson was will getting hits from Rhythrn Nation. None of those songs would have really fit DR. The one female #1 that i think could have worked was Rush Rush by Paula Abdul. Paula is mediocre vocalist but her songs were pretty good. Rush is quite lovely and if a real singer, like DR, did it, wow. I could also hear DR doing Straight Up. these are modern songs but not so far removed from DR's sound or approach

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    then in the early 90s, i think she needed to ditch the sentimental/inspirational garbage. I already listed some of the songs i'd skip - Force, One Shining Moment, Best Years of my Life, etc.

    I call these the Oprah singalong songs. DR was on that damn show all the time to debut another one of this drek and there you have Oprah lifting her arms in the air, swaying along

    looking over the #1 hits of 1991, i think it would be VERY challenging for Diana to break through. You had tons of HUGE Mariah songs at the time, Madonna's Justify My Love, some Whitney, Janet Jackson was will getting hits from Rhythrn Nation. None of those songs would have really fit DR. The one female #1 that i think could have worked was Rush Rush by Paula Abdul. Paula is mediocre vocalist but her songs were pretty good. Rush is quite lovely and if a real singer, like DR, did it, wow. I could also hear DR doing Straight Up. these are modern songs but not so far removed from DR's sound or approach
    It's hard to believe, but 1991 was 29 years ago! And of those artists that you mentioned - Madonna, Janet, Whitney, Mariah, Paula Abdul, NONE of them, except Mariah with a 20 year old Christmas song, has had a top 10 single in like 10-15 years!!! Like I said in an earlier post, chasing hits is a younger artists game.

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    Actually Madonna has held up but has become a bit more erratic. She was still super hot through Music in 2000. then had a dud with American Life. but Confessions on a Dance floor [[2005) gave us the huge hit Hung UP. Then Hard Candy [[2008) gave us the hit of 4 Minutes. MDNA [[2012) had a top 10 with Give Me All Your Luvin'.

    but you're right that others have struggled. Whitney's final album was a travesty. Paula and Mariah are no longer pumping out hits. Janet got totally shafted by the industry due to that nipple-gate incident

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Actually Madonna has held up but has become a bit more erratic. She was still super hot through Music in 2000. then had a dud with American Life. but Confessions on a Dance floor [[2005) gave us the huge hit Hung UP. Then Hard Candy [[2008) gave us the hit of 4 Minutes. MDNA [[2012) had a top 10 with Give Me All Your Luvin'.

    but you're right that others have struggled. Whitney's final album was a travesty. Paula and Mariah are no longer pumping out hits. Janet got totally shafted by the industry due to that nipple-gate incident
    Interesting to look at Madonna album sales recently,

    Hard Candy 2008 750K
    MDNA 2012 539K
    Rebel Heart 2015 238 K
    Madame X 169 K

    I wonder how much of her album sales decline is due to age vs streaming services

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    Quote Originally Posted by SatansBlues View Post
    I'm not sure why people hold Diana Ross's career to a different standard when it comes to her career- singles, albums. No artist stays in the top 10 forever, popular/current music is never static, new music and artists enter the scene everyday, people love the latest and the greatest. Most artists today can only dream of the success and longevity of Diana Ross's musical career. But you cannot deny the fact that the Top 100 charts and Album charts is and has been for the longest of time, been dominated by the newer artists and songs that appeal to a younger record buying/downloading/streaming artists. Look at what just happened to Celine Dion last album, it debuted at #1 on the chart it's first week, and by the second week it had dropped out of the TOP 200!!!
    A legend of Diana's caliber could never be held to the same standards as most of the rest. After what she did from 1964 [[along with Flo, Mary, and later Cindy) thru about 1984/85, she cannot be considered run of the mill. I think that has to be established before I address anything else.

    I think most of us agree that age was an issue, and in the US age is a typical culprit when an established artist fails to find continued success. If you notice, Ollie opined that age wasn't the issue and backed his assertion up with points about Diana having success at 40/41 and then falling off a cliff, sort of. As I said before, no one woke up one morning and decided Diana Ross was too old to be a relevant artist. That lack of success was achieved by Diana Ross releasing music that no one cared about, for the most part. I contend that, while age factored, ultimately Diana recording and releasing dud albums and singles kicked her out of the relevant group. Had she released an incredible album with radio friendly singles in 1986, 1989, 1991, she may have prolonged her success. But this idea that all of a sudden everybody in the United States held a meeting and decided Diana Ross was too old for anyone to care about artistically, is for the birds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i would have ditched EA except Chained Reaction could have been saved for RHRAB

    the vast majority of the EA set was garbage IMO. the songs have promise but the production and execution were dreadful. So taek Chained and toss the rest

    in 86 and 87, there was a resurgence in 50s/60s pop with Stand By Me, Dirty Dancing and other movies. Ferris Bueller danced to Twist and Shout. etc.

    I realize that Diana's biggest nightmare was to be considered an "oldies" but fact remains she was in her early to mid 40s at this time. so if the general public was reflecting on the past, she should have used this as an opportunity to reach back and also look forward. had the RHRAB set really been about the history of influential black artists, she could have maybe played that up. do a few of her fav tunes [[like There Goes My Baby), some classics [[like Tell Mama) and then some appropriate modern songs. Dirty Looks is not one of those lol. Shockwaves and Chain Reaction are though. So you have her doing a bit of a retrospective [[which was timely), reinterpreting some wonderful songs from the past and then releasing CR as a modern take on classic R&B

    not sure that would have been a mega hit here in the states but MAYBE it would have worked.
    The 80s really saw a plethora of hit songs with a throwback feel. Think Wham's "Wake Me Up", Katrina and the Sunshines "Walking On Sunshine", Phil Collins' "Two Hearts", New Edition's "Mr. Telephone Man", etc. Not that Diana should have been doing songs meant for a teenager or young adult, but it's the sound and style. Diana was one of the voices that made the 60s what it is musically, so pairing her up with something that was fresh yet reminiscent probably would've worked. She could have done this in place of Ross83, EA, or RHRAB, but probably best when she returned to Motown. I have to wonder how much better she would've been received had her arrival back at the label that made her famous had been promoted hugely with an album that was kind of throwback but very "now". Perhaps a television special to go along with it.

    After the success of "Missing You", Diana should've been in Lionel's face about producing her next album. Skip the Gibbs, replace with Lionel and I bet the 1985 album would've been a hit. RHRAB could've worked as a throwback album of cover songs, but she would've needed better production. While I enjoy a couple songs on the album, most of them lack superior production skills, IMO. But honestly, I think a Luther produced album at this point might have been a good idea. Or maybe a combo of Luther, Narada, Masser.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post

    looking over the #1 hits of 1991, i think it would be VERY challenging for Diana to break through. You had tons of HUGE Mariah songs at the time, Madonna's Justify My Love, some Whitney, Janet Jackson was will getting hits from Rhythrn Nation. None of those songs would have really fit DR. The one female #1 that i think could have worked was Rush Rush by Paula Abdul. Paula is mediocre vocalist but her songs were pretty good. Rush is quite lovely and if a real singer, like DR, did it, wow. I could also hear DR doing Straight Up. these are modern songs but not so far removed from DR's sound or approach
    Challenging? Perhaps. Impossible? I don't think so. I looked over the Hot 100 number ones for 1991 and I think if Diana had done something worthy, she could've fit in. There's a nice variety of cuts that hit the top that year, although it is worth pointing out that I don't think anyone was anywhere near Diana's age at the time.

    I think you may be right about "Rush". Maybe the song would've worked for Ross. But I don't hear anything else Paula did that would have fit. My money is still on Jody Watley as the young artist that I think Diana would've best fit her material, with a bit of tweaking of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SatansBlues View Post
    Like I said in an earlier post, chasing hits is a younger artists game.
    On this we can agree. However, there's no excuse for mediocre music. Even those artists I named before, that were extending their "shelf life" when Diana had expired, mostly did so through albums that were well received, and not necessarily through hit singles. The last time Diana Ross released a gold selling non compilation album was in 1984. Nineteen freaking eighty four. When I hear her singing throughout the 90s, to me it's a travesty that the still glorious voice wasn't paired up with a ton of great music, and the few times she was, it was past the point people cared.

    Janet's career was derailed by the Superbowl shenanigans, the throwing under the bus by her punk ass accomplice, and the subsequent blackballing. Whitney had a very public substance abuse issue as well as long periods with no musical releases. Paula Abdul was in her early 30s or so when she last had a hit, so really she doesn't belong in this conversation.

    Madonna went gold as late as 2012 when she was 54. Her last album hit number one. She was 61.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SatansBlues View Post
    You could ask the same question to Tina Turner, Aretha Franklin, Gladys Knight, Patti Labelle, Paul McCartney, Bruce Springfield, Stevie Wonder, Smokey Robinson, Barbara Streisand....
    I didn't ask about them though.

    I can EASILY tell you why SOME of Aretha's records flopped [[more due to awful music than her age; most of Through the Storm and What You See Is What You Sweat were pretty awful but she rebounded beautifully with A Rose Is Still a Rose). Tina, the same thing [[her last good album was 1996's Wildest Dreams). Gladys always had subpar material as a soloist [[sorry, she just did). Patti LaBelle musically wise was unstoppable until 2000. Stevie's music suffered from commercial subpar quality though still had some good moments [["So What the Fuss" definitely would've been a top 40 hit if there was more promotion). Smokey is in the same category with Gladys. Except for the Quiet Storm album and some highlights [["Cruisin'", "Baby Come Close", "Being With You", etc.), Smokey never really hit me as a solo artist.

    But this is about Diana. LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I'm not the target of your question, but I'm gonna answer anyway: Almost None. As I said before, I'm a bit surprised that "Chain Reaction" in the US didn't mirror the success of the song from around the world. And I also think that had "Take Me Higher" been recorded and released in the 1991-93 period, it may have done very well. But by 1995 those kinds of songs were not in favor with the general public. "If We Hold On Together" was apparently some kind of special release, but had it been pushed as a real single, I think it could have become a pop hit, especially tying it to The Land Before Time which was a box office hit. But were any of these "sure things"? Nah. Diana needed a certain kind of attention from producers who knew their shit. She didn't connect.
    And to be fair, not too many producers really gel with what she was going for. Only HDH, Ashford & Simpson, Hal Davis, Michael Masser and CHIC knew how to produce her. IMHO. Though I could argue with promotion on the adult R&B market, EDIAND could've had some staying power. I love those Mark Middleton productions. But the promo was hardly there. At all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    The 80s really saw a plethora of hit songs with a throwback feel. Think Wham's "Wake Me Up", Katrina and the Sunshines "Walking On Sunshine", Phil Collins' "Two Hearts", New Edition's "Mr. Telephone Man", etc. Not that Diana should have been doing songs meant for a teenager or young adult, but it's the sound and style. Diana was one of the voices that made the 60s what it is musically, so pairing her up with something that was fresh yet reminiscent probably would've worked. She could have done this in place of Ross83, EA, or RHRAB, but probably best when she returned to Motown. I have to wonder how much better she would've been received had her arrival back at the label that made her famous had been promoted hugely with an album that was kind of throwback but very "now". Perhaps a television special to go along with it.

    After the success of "Missing You", Diana should've been in Lionel's face about producing her next album. Skip the Gibbs, replace with Lionel and I bet the 1985 album would've been a hit. RHRAB could've worked as a throwback album of cover songs, but she would've needed better production. While I enjoy a couple songs on the album, most of them lack superior production skills, IMO. But honestly, I think a Luther produced album at this point might have been a good idea. Or maybe a combo of Luther, Narada, Masser.
    completely agree that Lionel should have done an album with her. EA is really the only RCA album that was handled by 1 producer, thus having a cohesive and singular voice. And while in the 70s there were some of her albums that held together pretty well with multiple producers, it was clear that her strongest work resulted from having a focused approach with 1 production team. amazing that she didn't approach things this way in the 80s.

    given that Missing was the biggest hit of the SA set, it does seem most logical to then follow up with a full album by that producer, Lionel. Unless perhaps there was some barrier because he was at Motown. not sure

    Also agree that the tracks we did get for Red Hot were not sensational. and some of the better tunes were left off the lp! 99 and a half, tell mama, etc. At this point in her career, i think she needed broader exposure to help keep her name out there. She did the tv special, which appears to have generated decent ratings. if she had timed it to also appear in a big budget and successful movie, then that could have worked.

    i realize her ego wouldn't allow her to really be part of a strong ensemble or take second billing. but had she, i think she would have rocked in Witches of Eastwick or Broadcast News.

    or given how many other projects she was in, rather than starring and carrying a movie, she could have had sensational "guest appearance" roles that would have been highly memorable. I'm sure they could have found ways to incorporate her into something like Three Men and a Baby, Wallstreet, Baby Boom or other huge hits.

    And she could have worked to have her music incorporated into films - Dirty Dancing, Adventures in Babysitting, Good Morning Vietnam, Can't buy me love.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Actually Madonna has held up but has become a bit more erratic. She was still super hot through Music in 2000. then had a dud with American Life. but Confessions on a Dance floor [[2005) gave us the huge hit Hung UP. Then Hard Candy [[2008) gave us the hit of 4 Minutes. MDNA [[2012) had a top 10 with Give Me All Your Luvin'.

    but you're right that others have struggled. Whitney's final album was a travesty. Paula and Mariah are no longer pumping out hits. Janet got totally shafted by the industry due to that nipple-gate incident
    It took a while but Madonna, I think, has finally fallen off. She had a steadier run than most. Like how many artists you knew had top tens stretching nearly 30 years [[28 years to be exact)? But I would think it was due to marketing efforts [[GMAYL was released primarily for the Super Bowl and to pull pre-release orders on iTunes and Amazon, 4 Minutes was weeks or months after she got inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame - which is why Justin Timberlake inducted her, I think Madonna's last legitimate top ten that didn't need any push was Hung Up from Confessions because Madonna just knew how to create a good song). Madonna also relied on controversy for sales but the controversy that surrounded MDNA, Rebel Heart and Madame X caused her sales to drop. Plus, her streaming units are HORRIBLE compared to Whitney and MJ. They're not as bad as Janet's but they're not exactly healthy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    A legend of Diana's caliber could never be held to the same standards as most of the rest. After what she did from 1964 [[along with Flo, Mary, and later Cindy) thru about 1984/85, she cannot be considered run of the mill. I think that has to be established before I address anything else.

    I think most of us agree that age was an issue, and in the US age is a typical culprit when an established artist fails to find continued success. If you notice, Ollie opined that age wasn't the issue and backed his assertion up with points about Diana having success at 40/41 and then falling off a cliff, sort of. As I said before, no one woke up one morning and decided Diana Ross was too old to be a relevant artist. That lack of success was achieved by Diana Ross releasing music that no one cared about, for the most part. I contend that, while age factored, ultimately Diana recording and releasing dud albums and singles kicked her out of the relevant group. Had she released an incredible album with radio friendly singles in 1986, 1989, 1991, she may have prolonged her success. But this idea that all of a sudden everybody in the United States held a meeting and decided Diana Ross was too old for anyone to care about artistically, is for the birds.
    I think it relevant to mention that as Diana continued to reap further success in Europe, she must have doing something right.
    EA reached UK 11 with a number 1 hit single. WO 23, FBTP 11 with hit singles a plenty. TMH UK 10 with hit single. To add to this, her “One Woman”commemorative collection went multi platinum with another sprinkling of hit singles. Two Christmas albums also sold very well.
    Admittedly the USA is rather a large market lol, but it wasn’t all gloom and doom me thinks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captainjames View Post
    Diana had some strong vocals in the movie especially with home but I always relate to the song " A Brand New Day" from the Wiz. Quincy, Diana, Michael, Ted and Nipsey were at the top of their game on this one.

    This is an interesting clip, by turns both entertaining and yet still seems poorly conceived.

    First, how they managed to make Diane look so plain - not that those costumes didn't help any - is a feat in itself. Yeah, yeah, I know that was supposedly the point, but seriously...?

    Second, the number has good staging and choreography and at least seems a bit more "Ozlike" than some of the other numbers that are staged in the subway or other venues. Still, at 1:05, it looks like Ross almost stumbles and falls so you kind of wonder, couldn't they have shot it again? Kind of cheesy, IMHO.

    I just don't think the entire project did Ross justice. The casting was just too jarring. Granted, I've only seen it once and I know it has a very strong following now. I'll have to see it again with fresh [[?) eyes [[40 years later?).
    Last edited by kenneth; 08-15-2020 at 02:34 AM.

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    And a sweaty armpit lol

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    musically I really like the film. Visually, it is one of the worst musicals ever made. Visually, it is dark and ugly.
    Last edited by Circa 1824; 08-15-2020 at 07:53 AM.

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    The above video clip shows how bad the choreography was. At 15 seconds, they are clearly waiting for the music to build so they can start to move. Music should follow the Movement, not the other way around. Also, Diana is NOT dancing. She is just awkwardly moving with arms flying everywhere. At 52 seconds she bumps into another dancer and almost stumbled. Who the hell was the choreographer?
    Last edited by Circa 1824; 08-15-2020 at 07:56 AM.

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[REMOVE ADS]

Ralph Terrana
MODERATOR

Welcome to Soulful Detroit! Kindly Consider Turning Off Your Ad BlockingX
Soulful Detroit is a free service that relies on revenue from ad display [regrettably] and donations. We notice that you are using an ad-blocking program that prevents us from earning revenue during your visit.
Ads are REMOVED for Members who donate to Soulful Detroit. [You must be logged in for ads to disappear]
DONATE HERE »
And have Ads removed.