The Wiz wasn’t so wonderful for Black cinema

[RanRan79]

In the black community, the Wiz is not a camp classic. It is just a classic.

Absolutely, although it would be interesting to learn if this opinion falls within a certain age range. Growing up I don't remember too many of the adults being fond of the movie, but us kids were wowed by it, and continue to be so.

[RanRan79]

I just mentioned LGBT lol

I know it's considered a classic in the black community. I mean, it's The Wiz. One of the few musicals where many blacks actually proved they love to see a Broadway play.

I'm sorry but I have to post Stephanie Mills' Broadway version of Home here lol

This is how important The Wiz is to black people:

Stephanie's version of "Home" from 1989 is to Black folks what "My Country Tis Of Thee" or "God Bless America" is to the US. Where "Lift Ev'ry Voice And Sing" is the Black National Anthem, "Home" is that second place winner.

The version she sings in the posted clip from the play isn't doing it for me, though. That same year she sang "Home" on a TV show, I think it was hosted by Sammy Davis Jr. She. Tore. It. Up. Stephanie Mills' voice is definitely one of our country's natural resources.

[RanRan79]

Fans have posted about 70’s audience expectations of The Wiz. I think the main expectation was the hope of seeing a decent movie. I remember showing the film to my nieces in the 90’s when they were young. They lost interest after the first 30 mins. There was simply no magic.

While the rest of us were mesmerized. I guess people see magic in different ways.

[Ollie9]

While the rest of us were mesmerized. I guess people see magic in different ways.

As regards the film, i can only share my own personal feelings and the reactions of friends and loved ones that i know.
The rest of us sounds like an awful lot of people, so perhaps i’m the one who has it wrong.

[Boogiedown]

As regards the film, i can only share my own personal feelings and the reactions of friends and loved ones that i know.
The rest of us sounds like an awful lot of people, so perhaps i’m the one who has it wrong.

lol!
Why Ollie, you don't purport your opinion to represent some entire 'community'!!

I can say , for myself, I'm ambivalent about The Wiz. I'm not big on musicals in general though , with an exception here and there.
I'm ready to watch it again. If it were making the rounds on the big screen, I would definitely go. That would be cool in fact...watching with an audience...if we ever get back to being able to do such things....

[jobeterob]

I was embarrassed that Diana was in The Wiz when it came out. How could that actress be in Lady Sings the Blues and descend to The Wiz. But then she goes back to Out of Darkness and a remarkable performance and then more fluff like Double Platinum.

But The Wiz has turned out to be the most recognizable Diana Ross movie and the music and her singing and memorable and the movie is loved by many.

I’m still not sure I understand why

[khansperac]

So after reading the recent comments in this thread, I started channel surfing and as I type, The Wiz is playing on the Starz movie channel. It’s been playing regularly lately. Here’s what I think. So many times people are so focused on the negatives. They are blinded to what people [[black People specifically) find so charming about it. Yes it may not be perfect, but there is so much more to celebrate than the negatives. The timeless story, The great music, the wonderful costumes, the talented dancers and choreography, and the LEGENDARY cast. Lena Horne, Diana Ross, Michael Jackson, Richard Pryor, Ted Ross, Nipsey Russell, Mabel King. So much black talent all around to marvel at.

[RanRan79]

As regards the film, i can only share my own personal feelings and the reactions of friends and loved ones that i know.
The rest of us sounds like an awful lot of people, so perhaps i’m the one who has it wrong.

Yes, you have it wrong.

Based on the comments that make up this entire thread, I think it's safe to say that reaction to The Wiz is varied from one extreme to the other. "The rest of us" is an awful lot of people, as I too can only state my personal opinion about the film and add in the reactions of the people I personally know [[and once knew) who enjoyed it. That's who "the rest of us" referenced. Did you really think I was suggesting you and your nieces were alone in your opinion after everything others have said in this thread?

[RanRan79]

So after reading the recent comments in this thread, I started channel surfing and as I type, The Wiz is playing on the Starz movie channel. It’s been playing regularly lately. Here’s what I think. So many times people are so focused on the negatives. They are blinded to what people [[black People specifically) find so charming about it. Yes it may not be perfect, but there is so much more to celebrate than the negatives. The timeless story, The great music, the wonderful costumes, the talented dancers and choreography, and the LEGENDARY cast. Lena Horne, Diana Ross, Michael Jackson, Richard Pryor, Ted Ross, Nipsey Russell, Mabel King. So much black talent all around to marvel at.

But I'm not sure I would say Black people in general. I still believe it's based on age; how old a person was at the time of the original release, or whether the person was even born yet [[as in my case). I'd also be curious to know if the movie is popular among other races using the same age criteria. I honestly don't know.

Focusing on the negative[[s) of a movie is just natural. That's how we as individuals ultimately pan a movie. While I never really watch The Wiz with a critical eye, I will say that after comments in this thread, as well as the article that prompted the thread's creation, I did begin to think more deeply about the movie and any flaws it may have. I must admit, as I said previously, I definitely agree that Lumet as director was probably a big mistake. I think one of the things that ultimately endeared the 1939 Wizard Of Oz to the public was the beautiful transition from black and white to color, and how the color portion of the film just...POPS. It's so beautiful. Contrast that to The Wiz's dark and drab filming. In studying some aspects of filmmaking, one of the first things one learns is that proper lighting is essential. It can definitely set a mood, and I don't think the lighting of The Wiz sets the mood of this fantastical movie going experience. It's lit more like the film might be lit if the entire focus of the film was Dorothy's life back in Harlem, where she never goes anywhere or does anything. I can see where this would lessen the experience of the point of film, where you're supposed to lose yourself in the fiction of it all.

Diana's look is another problem. And honestly, even as a kid, I always thought something was off here. She does look a bit older than 24. I think the afro has a lot to do with that. I know why they went with that decision, but either they should've styled the fro differently or given her an altogether different hairstyle that still screamed "Black". That drab colored dress...again colors should've been popping on the screen. Diana as Dorothy could not have been dressed as Diana Ross. Dorothy was supposed to be a timid, disappear in the background, "I hope no one notices me", young lady, so her dress wasn't meant to turn heads. But she could've had a dress that had color and looked great on screen yet still conveyed the same message regarding her style. And the silver slippers. Had they called the shoes "diamond slippers" I could probably let this go. But silver? Apparently the original story [[as in the book) had them as silver and they were only changed to ruby in the 1939 film. Again, I think the better decision would've been to change them back to ruby or another colored jewel as the color would come across more appealing than silver.

If I'm being critical, those are my critiques. Now the positives. The musical numbers. Aside from the darkness, I'd be interested in hearing the opinions about why anyone found the musical numbers boring. Diana was in fine vocal form. Michael was captivating. Nipsey Russell was nobody's singer IMO, but "What Would I Do If I Could Feel" is a gorgeous song. Lena Horne tore her song up. The others spotlights were equally as brilliant. Everything was well choreographed. What's not to love?

The criticism has been brought up that Diana looks scared all of the time: well she was supposed to be. Remember, back home Dorothy's life is school teaching and coming home to help Aunt Em. Nothing about her says she does any living beyond school, home, the grocery store and probably church. Hell, she's even afraid to go south of 125th Street. Now all of a sudden she's in this weird new world with shit talking that shouldn't be talking and moving and dancing and singing, plus there's a big fat ass witch trying to kill her. I'd look frightened all of the time too.

Finally there's the criticism that the movie is about a young girl. I personally LOVE the twist of The Wiz being about a young woman afraid of independence. Tons of young people go through this, are down right frightened by it, and so it would seem the story should have been able to resonate with people who understood Dorothy's fear. This wasn't a story about a kid trying to find her way. That had been done before. This was about a young woman on a self discovery journey. And by movie's end she discovered she could make it on her own, rely on herself, and kick the ass of fear. What more was there to want from the film?

[khansperac]

Ran I agree. Didn’t mean to imply all black people. Just black people that enjoy it. My criticism of the film is the same as yours. The lighting is off. I also feel they made Diana look older than she did in real life. Just take a look at how young and how good she looks on the cover of the “Diana sings song from the Wiz” project. The lighting is much better and she looks great. As great as Mabel King was, I feel the witch would have been much better with a different costume. Something more witchy. Also why only one appearance? In the original, the witch was featured several times. This lead to the suspense.

Like I mentioned earlier, I get over all of this looking at all the gifted black dancers and performances. The music is top notch, and these legendary actors/singers are wonderful. For me I could watch the “Brand new Day” part of the film over and over. Just excellence all around. One of the best cinematic musical numbers of all time.

[RanRan79]

Ran I agree. Didn’t mean to imply all black people. Just black people that enjoy it. My criticism of the film is the same as yours. The lighting is off. I also feel they made Diana look older than she did in real life. Just take a look at how young and how good she looks on the cover of the “Diana sings song from the Wiz” project. The lighting is much better and she looks great. As great as Mabel King was, I feel the witch would have been much better with a different costume. Something more witchy. Also why only one appearance? In the original, the witch was featured several times. This lead to the suspense.

Like I mentioned earlier, I get over all of this looking at all the gifted black dancers and performances. The music is top notch, and these legendary actors/singers are wonderful. For me I could watch the “Brand new Day” part of the film over and over. Just excellence all around. One of the best cinematic musical numbers of all time.

Agree 1000 percent. And you're right about the witch, both the costume and the limited appearance, although Mabel's number stops the show. Also like you, I'm of the opinion that "Brand New Day" is one of the best musical numbers of any musical movie ever.

I used to watch The Wiz at Thanksgiving. I haven't done that tradition in a few years, although I intended to do it in 2018 but it got lost in the shuffle of holiday festivities and I made it a point to remember to do it in 2019 but ended up going back home for the holiday. I'm going to write a note to myself to revive the tradition this year and fight off the urge to watch my dvd right now.

[sansradio]

The scene in the film that captured my imagination was the Emerald City Sequence. It's a campy, flashy Ebony-Fashion-Fair-meets-drag-ball extravaganza with a zest, energy and color that I wish the rest of the film had matched. The music is funky and inspired; Quincy should be proud of his work here. And it's proven to be hella influential; no less than Beyoncé borrowed its fanfare for her Homecoming tour. It's a cultural moment cherished by so many, particularly in the Black/queer/intersectional communities.

[midnightman]

The Emerald City monologue and the Brand New Day part are my favorite scenes in the movie too!

[RanRan79]

The scene in the film that captured my imagination was the Emerald City Sequence. It's a campy, flashy Ebony-Fashion-Fair-meets-drag-ball extravaganza with a zest, energy and color that I wish the rest of the film had matched. The music is funky and inspired; Quincy should be proud of his work here. And it's proven to be hella influential; no less than Beyoncé borrowed its fanfare for her Homecoming tour. It's a cultural moment cherished by so many, particularly in the Black/queer/intersectional communities.

Quincy should definitely be proud. I wonder how he views the entire project today?

[Ollie9]

lol!
Why Ollie, you don't purport your opinion to represent some entire 'community'!!

I can say , for myself, I'm ambivalent about The Wiz. I'm not big on musicals in general though , with an exception here and there.
I'm ready to watch it again. If it were making the rounds on the big screen, I would definitely go. That would be cool in fact...watching with an audience...if we ever get back to being able to do such things....

I have seen it on the big screen Boogie, but in truth would probably not rush to see it again unless I was enticed. Having said that, A sing-a-long might just be fun......After a bottle of wine or two lol.

[Ollie9]

Yes, you have it wrong.

Based on the comments that make up this entire thread, I think it's safe to say that reaction to The Wiz is varied from one extreme to the other. "The rest of us" is an awful lot of people, as I too can only state my personal opinion about the film and add in the reactions of the people I personally know [[and once knew) who enjoyed it. That's who "the rest of us" referenced. Did you really think I was suggesting you and your nieces were alone in your opinion after everything others have said in this thread?

Well to be quite honest, referencing the rest of us does rather sound like everybody but me, but there you go. I believe a good or bad film is the same no matter what age you happen to be.
You mention it was natural for Diana to look scared in the movie. One of the films main failures as noted by most critics of the time was that in many of her scenes Dorothy acts like a five year old. Her reactions are those of a small child, as opposed to a scared and introverted adult.
I agree about the lighting. A good friend of mine who happens to be a lighting technician told me that who ever lit the film should be shot. Diana in particular was very badly lit on a couple of her early solos which made her look so much older.
I find the Brand New Day sequence and What Would I Do the best scenes in the film but that’s about it. Perhaps at some point in the future musical historians will be including The Wiz on their best of all time lists. I for one wont be holding my breath.

[RanRan79]

Well to be quite honest, referencing the rest of us does rather sound like everybody but me, but there you go.

I can see now how it might have come across that way. I could've worded it better. My apologies.

I believe a good or bad film is the same no matter what age you happen to be.

Each individual person is the arbiter of what good and bad in a film is. The point I made about age is that people of a certain age often cite the casting of Diana Ross in the role as a major turnoff. Many people expected Stephanie Mills to reprise the role she originated. For people like me, who were born after the film [[and from what I can tell, people who were children at the time of the film) didn't watch the movie with any expectations regarding casting. And of course we didn't watch the movie going "the lighting is off" and nitpicking issues. For us The Wiz was like the The Wizard Of Oz, a fantasy, something to get lost in. And for those of us who enjoy good music, The Wiz had plenty of that. So from my perspective there is a breakdown in how the movie is viewed between people of a certain age. Of course there were people who were adults at the time of original release who loved the movie, just like there are people born after the movie's release who loathe it. There isn't an absolute here.

You mention it was natural for Diana to look scared in the movie. One of the films main failures as noted by most critics of the time was that in many of her scenes Dorothy acts like a five year old. Her reactions are those of a small child, as opposed to a scared and introverted adult.

In what way specifically? I just don't see it the way it's been criticized. I imagine myself in the same position, and I'm not sorry to say but if there were talking scarecrows and tin men, lions bursting out of sculptures, flying, funky monkeys, some weird dude with inflatable pink jesters, pillars breaking off from the rest of the building to swallow me up, singing, dancing graffiti, and I had killed- even accidentally- someone I had never met, even if she was a witch, I'd be somewhere curled up crying for my mama. No lie. No joke. And did I mention there was a big ass witch chasing after her? I don't understand what fault there was in her reaction. If anything it wasn't as realistic as it should have been, which would have definitely been to react as a five year old.

Perhaps at some point in the future musical historians will be including The Wiz on their best of all time lists. I for one wont be holding my breath.

I wouldn't ask you to hold your breath, but I would remind you that the way history is viewed often changes. And if my theory is correct, that the love/hate ratio of The Wiz is broken down by year of birth, in the future there will be a great many musical/movie historians who hold The Wiz in high regard. Not to mention that they all have opinions and assholes like the rest of us. One weighs no more than any other.

[Ollie9]

I can see now how it might have come across that way. I could've worded it better. My apologies.



Each individual person is the arbiter of what good and bad in a film is. The point I made about age is that people of a certain age often cite the casting of Diana Ross in the role as a major turnoff. Many people expected Stephanie Mills to reprise the role she originated. For people like me, who were born after the film [[and from what I can tell, people who were children at the time of the film) didn't watch the movie with any expectations regarding casting. And of course we didn't watch the movie going "the lighting is off" and nitpicking issues. For us The Wiz was like the The Wizard Of Oz, a fantasy, something to get lost in. And for those of us who enjoy good music, The Wiz had plenty of that. So from my perspective there is a breakdown in how the movie is viewed between people of a certain age. Of course there were people who were adults at the time of original release who loved the movie, just like there are people born after the movie's release who loathe it. There isn't an absolute here.



In what way specifically? I just don't see it the way it's been criticized. I imagine myself in the same position, and I'm not sorry to say but if there were talking scarecrows and tin men, lions bursting out of sculptures, flying, funky monkeys, some weird dude with inflatable pink jesters, pillars breaking off from the rest of the building to swallow me up, singing, dancing graffiti, and I had killed- even accidentally- someone I had never met, even if she was a witch, I'd be somewhere curled up crying for my mama. No lie. No joke. And did I mention there was a big ass witch chasing after her? I don't understand what fault there was in her reaction. If anything it wasn't as realistic as it should have been, which would have definitely been to react as a five year old.



I wouldn't ask you to hold your breath, but I would remind you that the way history is viewed often changes. And if my theory is correct, that the love/hate ratio of The Wiz is broken down by year of birth, in the future there will be a great many musical/movie historians who hold The Wiz in high regard. Not to mention that they all have opinions and assholes like the rest of us. One weighs no more than any other.

To be honest, i’m really glad that there are folks out there who do get enjoyment from the film. As such, the project was not an entirely wasted opportunity.
Regarding her acting, i really do agree with the critics here. From the moment that naughty dog runs out of the apartment and throughout the entire playground scene with Miss One, her persona is more akin to a frightened five year old then a scared and shy introverted woman. There is a VAST difference between the two and it really should have been portrayed accordingly. For me it veers very close to being comical.
I agree in that there are no absolutes, but concur that it is possible the timeline it’s viewed in could possibly influence certain expectations of the movie.
The music of course is wonderful and certain scenes when taken out of context are actually rather good.
I don’t quite share your confidence that time will lend enchantment to the view, with the film one day being regarded as a musical classic. Never say never though.

[Boogiedown]

I have seen it on the big screen Boogie, but in truth would probably not rush to see it again unless I was enticed. Having said that, A sing-a-long might just be fun......After a bottle of wine or two lol.

Ha !
Not likely to happen anyway I reckon. Boy remember when there were theatres that just ran assorted films from the past....

[Ollie9]

Ha !
Not likely to happen anyway I reckon. Boy remember when there were theatres that just ran assorted films from the past....

There is a cinema quite near to where i live that screens films one might have missed during the year, [[nothing older) which is rather useful. I do remember LSTB & Mahogany being shown together during the late 80’s. There is a tv channel devoted to showing old, mostly black and white films which I love.
With the revival of interest in The Wiz, i’m surprised there has never been a special dvd edition featuring scenes that never made the final cut. Dorothy singing “Is This What Feeling Gets” being one. Dorothy killing Toto with a crossbow another........Just kidding.

[vgalindo]

I remember being so excited at the time. With all the publicity and promotion. I could hardly wait to see it. I remember going with 6 of my friends from high school. I went to the first showing in my town. The lines at the theatre were long and wrapped around the block. It was sold out. It was so exciting!! Everyone at the theatre including my friends who went with me seemed to love it. But I was disappointed. I loved the music but was disappointed on the way Diana Ross looked. Instead of making her look younger she looked older. I really feel they had the wrong director. My aunt who also saw the Broadway show, loved the movie as well.

[RanRan79]

I don’t quite share your confidence that time will lend enchantment to the view, with the film one day being regarded as a musical classic. Never say never though.

Time has already changed the way the movie is viewed. I would say two generations have appeared since the movie's release. Doing a quick google search:

Rotten Tomatoes has the film at 42 percent official critic rating [[on 33 reviews), which puts it at a "rotten" rating. It's audience score, which is basically you and I and all the regular folks with opinions but don't receive pay checks to give them, is at 65 percent on 35,129 user reviews.

Metacritic has the film at 53 percent favorable, with 5 positive, 4 mixed, 2 negative reviews from critics.

IMDB has 5.4 rating on 13,439 user rating, which is broken down into: 15.9 percent for the highest rating of 10, 4.7 for 9, 8.5 for 8, 11.7 for 7, 14.6 for 6, 14.5 for 5, 10.1 for 4, 6.6 for 3, 5.4 for 2 stars, and 8.0 for the lowest rating of one.

And finally, 87 percent of Google users "liked this movie", according to Google.

So the paid critics raked this movie over the coals, yet today, the average viewer [[if one can conflate the average viewer with the average online user rater) finds the movie favorable. I'd say there has been a shift from 1978 to 2020.

And to tweak my original thoughts, I have to point out that even though people thought Dorothy was miscast, lots of people were still willing to give the film a chance, hence why it's opening night was jammed packed with people across the country willing to pay to see it. So I would say, to your point about the good or bad of the film, that watching the film was more of a negative for people than whatever reservations they had to Diana as Dorothy. At the time lots of people saw the movie and didn't like it.

[RanRan79]

With the revival of interest in The Wiz, i’m surprised there has never been a special dvd edition featuring scenes that never made the final cut. Dorothy singing “Is This What Feeling Gets” being one.

The Wiz has been popular enough that is has been released on every available home viewing method from VHS to Laserdisk to DVD to Bluray. Interest has only grown, not waned, I would think. But the 30th anniversary DVD release has extras, but no cut scenes. I assume any extra footage was lit on fire by Berry Gordy when he realized that the film was a financial and critical disaster.

[RanRan79]

I remember being so excited at the time. With all the publicity and promotion. I could hardly wait to see it. I remember going with 6 of my friends from high school. I went to the first showing in my town. The lines at the theatre were long and wrapped around the block. It was sold out. It was so exciting!! Everyone at the theatre including my friends who went with me seemed to love it. But I was disappointed. I loved the music but was disappointed on the way Diana Ross looked. Instead of making her look younger she looked older. I really feel they had the wrong director. My aunt who also saw the Broadway show, loved the movie as well.

My mother went to see it at the time of release. She didn't like it.

[khansperac]

Here is the Siskel and Ebert review of "The Wiz".

Starts at 16:55

[Roberta75]

The Wiz has been popular enough that is has been released on every available home viewing method from VHS to Laserdisk to DVD to Bluray. Interest has only grown, not waned, I would think. But the 30th anniversary DVD release has extras, but no cut scenes. I assume any extra footage was lit on fire by Berry Gordy when he realized that the film was a financial and critical disaster.

It sure made money on VHS and DVD and Bluray release.

[vgalindo]

My mother went to see it at the time of release. She didn't like it.

My mother didn’t either. Lol.

[vgalindo]

Here is the Siskel and Ebert review of "The Wiz".

Starts at 16:55

Thank you for sharing. Never saw this review before. It was nice to see a positive review.

[Ollie9]

So the paid critics raked this movie over the coals, yet today, the average viewer [[if one can conflate the average viewer with the average online user rater) finds the movie favorable. I'd say there has been a shift from 1978 to 2020.

And to tweak my original thoughts, I have to point out that even though people thought Dorothy was miscast, lots of people were still willing to give the film a chance, hence why it's opening night was jammed packed with people across the country willing to pay to see it. So I would say, to your point about the good or bad of the film, that watching the film was more of a negative for people than whatever reservations they had to Diana as Dorothy. At the time lots of people saw the movie and didn't like it.

Some interesting figures. Percentage wise, i do wonder how many of those people who left a review watched the movie the entire way through.
Way back in ole 1978, Diana Ross’s star power was such that it would have been the main reason the vast majority of people went to see The Wiz in the first place. Her being miscast would never have kept people away.
The films main failing for me should be aimed at its director. He was not a musical director and filmed most scenes like you would a play. For me it ruined what should have been a magical experience.

[Ollie9]

My mother didn’t either. Lol.

My mother never saw it as it was not really her type of film. I wish she had.

[Ollie9]

I I loved the music but was disappointed on the way Diana Ross looked. Instead of making her look younger she looked older. I really feel they had the wrong director.

I rather was to . Being one of the worlds most glamorous women at the time, Dorothy/Diana looked for the most part awful in the film. Allowing for the fact this was not a glamour role, not only does she look older then her years, but unattractive as well. The bad lighting is a lot to blame, but then also the very unflattering hair style and dowdy costume. Surely this would have been evident during screen tests?.

[RanRan79]

Way back in ole 1978, Diana Ross’s star power was such that it would have been the main reason the vast majority of people went to see The Wiz in the first place. Her being miscast would never have kept people away.
The films main failing for me should be aimed at its director. He was not a musical director and filmed most scenes like you would a play. For me it ruined what should have been a magical experience.

Nothing to argue here. I agree with you 100 percent.

[vgalindo]

I rather was to . Being one of the worlds most glamorous women at the time, Dorothy/Diana looked for the most part awful in the film. Allowing for the fact this was not a glamour role, not only does she look older then her years, but unattractive as well. The bad lighting is a lot to blame, but then also the very unflattering hair style and dowdy costume. Surely this would have been evident during screen tests?.

I agree with you 💯 percent.

[jobeterob]

I remember it as being the darkest movie - all filmed at night or in the dark. Strange.

[midnightman]

Some interesting figures. Percentage wise, i do wonder how many of those people who left a review watched the movie the entire way through.
Way back in ole 1978, Diana Ross’s star power was such that it would have been the main reason the vast majority of people went to see The Wiz in the first place. Her being miscast would never have kept people away.
The films main failing for me should be aimed at its director. He was not a musical director and filmed most scenes like you would a play. For me it ruined what should have been a magical experience.

Yeah Sidney Lumet wasn't cutting it.

[Ollie9]

It’s been a while, but i attempted to watch the film last night. Sadly i only lasted until Dorothy meets the lion as I was quite simply and utterly bored. It did remind me that one of the more fun scenes in the film is “Slide Some Oil”. Other then “Brand New Day”, its one of the very few times that Diana looks animated and actually smiles. It’s interesting that the Tin Man was given two solo numbers in succession. I find “I’m A Mean Ole Lion” the only tedious song in the film.
I agree with Job in that far to many scenes were filmed at night.
Fast forward, and John Badham’s instincts proved spookily prophetic indeed.

[RanRan79]

I won't be pulling it out until Thanksgiving. I'm going to try to remember to tell myself to watch with a critical eye instead of a nostalgic one.

[Ollie9]

I won't be pulling it out until Thanksgiving. I'm going to try to remember to tell myself to watch with a critical eye instead of a nostalgic one.

Don’t do that my friend...... Just continue to enjoy it as much as you always have. As you recently pointed out, “We all find magic in different places”.

[midnightman]

Ollie, that was my problem with the film overall. It just DRAGGED. I always changed the channel until it got to my favorite parts.

[Ollie9]

Ollie, that was my problem with the film overall. It just DRAGGED. I always changed the channel until it got to my favorite parts.

I read something online recently that totally sums the movie up for me. It read “The Wiz is a great musical but a lousy movie”. It’s the bits between the musical numbers that lets the film down dreadfully.
Out of curiosity what are your favourite parts?.

[midnightman]

I read something online recently that totally sums the movie up for me. It read “The Wiz is a great musical but a lousy movie”. It’s the bits between the musical numbers that lets the film down dreadfully.
Out of curiosity what are your favourite parts?.

The Emerald sequence [[I don't know if that's the right name)
Brand New Day scene after Evilene is "flushed down"
Diana singing "Home" at the end

[grangertim]

Ah, The Wiz.

Look, I love me my Miss Ross, but she was horribly miscast in this. The problem is that she played Dorothy as scared and timid; I suppose, "being 24", she had to. But Dorothy isn't just scared, she's meant to be inexperienced, and, sure, fear is part of that inexperience, but she's also supposed to have youthful optimism and curiosity, and it's this optimism and curiosity - pluck, if you will - that wins over and eventually gets her back to Kansas/Harlem. That youthful optimism and curiosity is completely lacking in Diana's performance.

I hadn't considered the direction in the movie before as being the cause of the movie to fail, the article calls the direction 'wooden'; it's an interesting point. I'll have to rewatch it and see [[I have not watched it for years).

But Diana's Sing Songs from The Wiz is magical. Her rendition of The Feeling That We Have is jaw-dropping, and has been in my favourites list ever since I downloaded the album. Imagine what an even older Miss Ross could do with it! Beyond that, I love how she characterises the delivery of each song on the album; you can almost picture her playing the characters.

[LoveSupreme]

I saw The Wiz on a holiday outing to the movies back in 1978. I was 10 years old and even at that age I knew a stinker when I saw one - - - and this was it. The film was so overblown and overproduced that obliterated the heart and core of the original story. It also didn't help that they changed "Dorothy" into a 24 year old virgin school teacher who is so scared of the world that she hasn't ventured south of 125th street. Say what? She wasn't just scared, she was downright having a hysterical tear filled nervous breakdown in every damn scene!! This adaptation was just wrong, wrong, wrong on most every single level except the score which was masterfully adapted by Mr. Quincy Jones. I love the soundtrack album - it's a winner. The film? Not so much.

[sup_fan]

part of what made the Wiz a dud IMO is the excessive self-help jargon and nonsense. some reviewer said instead of landing on and killing the Wicked Witch of the East, the house should have killed the Wicked Witch of EST.

Joel Schumacher did the screenplay and both he and Diana were big followers of Werner Erhard and EST. the film turned out too preachy for my taste

This is also a side of Diana's career that isn't my favorite - this "you're so wonderful i love you" theme. in the 70s, you really only had Reach Out and Touch and then Wiz. and in the 80s there wasn't too much of it. but gag - so many of 90s songs are in this vein:

You've given me the best years of my life
force behind the power
take me higher
one shining moment
if we hold on together
let's make every moment count
it's a wonderful life

the songs just get a bit too syrupy. And i tire of her doing I Will Survive. I get it - she likes these emotional, feeling songs. but i prefer other aspects of her career and styles of songs that she's done.

[SatansBlues]

part of what made the Wiz a dud IMO is the excessive self-help jargon and nonsense. some reviewer said instead of landing on and killing the Wicked Witch of the East, the house should have killed the Wicked Witch of EST.

Joel Schumacher did the screenplay and both he and Diana were big followers of Werner Erhard and EST. the film turned out too preachy for my taste

This is also a side of Diana's career that isn't my favorite - this "you're so wonderful i love you" theme. in the 70s, you really only had Reach Out and Touch and then Wiz. and in the 80s there wasn't too much of it. but gag - so many of 90s songs are in this vein:

You've given me the best years of my life
force behind the power
take me higher
one shining moment
if we hold on together
let's make every moment count
it's a wonderful life

the songs just get a bit too syrupy. And i tire of her doing I Will Survive. I get it - she likes these emotional, feeling songs. but i prefer other aspects of her career and styles of songs that she's done.

I think Diana has an overlooked spiritual side to her that people seem to miss. I grew up in a Baptist church in Michigan during the 80's, and right before our benediction, we would sing a verse of Reach Out and Touch while holding hands with people sitting around us so that everyone in the church is connected at that moment in service. Diana is not and has never been a gospel diva like Aretha or Patti, but she gets her point across with songs that touch upon her spirituality side.

[Ollie9]

This is also a side of Diana's career that isn't my favorite - this "you're so wonderful i love you" theme. in the 70s, you really only had Reach Out and Touch and then Wiz. and in the 80s there wasn't too much of it. but gag - so many of 90s songs are in this vein:
You've given me the best years of my life
force behind the power
take me higher
one shining moment
if we hold on together
let's make every moment count
it's a wonderful life

the songs just get a bit too syrupy. And i tire of her doing I Will Survive. I get it - she likes these emotional, feeling songs. but i prefer other aspects of her career and styles of songs that she's done.

I do find the “go for your dreams” thing a bit tiresome at times, but that’s Diana.
I’m surprised you consider “Force Behind The Power” and “Take Me Higher” as being syrupy. For me their two solid inspirational songs. Coming from an animated movie, “If We Hold On” is bound to be a little calorific
Personally i really dig a good message song. “All For One” and Voice Of The Heart” being just two. Gladys knights last two albums were very much in that inspirational vein and work very well.
I agree in that some of those 90’s ballads did tend to fall on the sugary side. Not quite rot your teeth standard, but sweet all the same.

[sup_fan]

I do find the “go for your dreams” thing a bit tiresome at times, but that’s Diana.
I’m surprised you consider “Force Behind The Power” and “Take Me Higher” as being syrupy. For me their two solid inspirational songs. Coming from an animated movie, “If We Hold On” is bound to be a little calorific
Personally i really dig a good message song. “All For One” and Voice Of The Heart” being just two. Gladys knights last two albums were very much in that inspirational vein and work very well.
I agree in that some of those 90’s ballads did tend to fall on the sugary side. Not quite rot your teeth standard, but sweet all the same.

i'm probably just a bit too cynical! lolol And i think my problem with these songs is that they were used as "big" single in many cases. Especially when Diana was in a bit of a more precarious position [[in terms of US sales and chart performance). when they released Take Me Higher, i think the title track was too "inspirational" to really hit with the US record buying public. A more traditional song might have worked better.

[Ollie9]

i'm probably just a bit too cynical! lolol And i think my problem with these songs is that they were used as "big" single in many cases. Especially when Diana was in a bit of a more precarious position [[in terms of US sales and chart performance). when they released Take Me Higher, i think the title track was too "inspirational" to really hit with the US record buying public. A more traditional song might have worked better.

Can anything ever be to inspirational lol. In truth, Diana could have recorded the most commercial song in the history of music and it would not have hit in America. At that point they were simply not interested in playing or buying her music. I think she should have focussed all her promotional efforts on Europe where she was still musically relevant and scoring hits.

[sup_fan]

Can anything ever be to inspirational lol. In truth, Diana could have recorded the most commercial song in the history of music and it would not have hit in America. At that point they were simply not interested in playing or buying her music. I think she should have focussed all her promotional efforts on Europe where she was still musically relevant and scoring hits.

i think there might have been some opportunities. she might have been able to get some chart action with I Will Survive.

if not that, then i think she definitely should have done Carry On from her final motown album. that was right when Cher had hit big with Believe and so i think she might have been able to ride the coattails of that a bit. carry On is a very different sound but still a "hot dance song from an old legend" idea. and Diana sings the HELL out of the song.

and, ironically, lol it has an inspirational message too lol

[Rafalle]

After « Workin’ Overtime », both because it bombed and because Diana made it worse by insisting on the title track [[just plain horrible to listen to) being the lead single, rather than the only actual decent tune on the album « Bottom Line », Motown stopped servicing her new releases to any radio stations other than R&B/Black and AC. So, two years later, « When You Tell Me... » was chosen as the lead single of « The Force Behind The Power » album, thankfully ahead of the, once again, ghastly title track. It charted on the AC chart in the US and of course, hit no2 on the pop charts in England, Scotland and Ireland! Motown were quite simply not expecting or even hoping that Diana could return to the pop charts in the US. All her albums thru the rest of the 90s were, sad to say, completely ignored by mainstream radio. She didn’t help matters by deciding to, more or less, not ever appear to promote her latest single. Motown were not interested in pushing her and she wasn’t interested in pushing herself. As far as the general public we’re concerned, she had married a Norwegian billionaire, had the two boys, tried to come back with « Workin’ Overtime », failed, failed again when she popped up again for the « Return To Love » fiasco, got busted, and then retired! Phew!