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  1. #1
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    The Wiz wasn’t so wonderful for Black cinema


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    In my opinion, to compare the 1978 film version of The Wiz to the Black Panther film from 2018 is not really fair, as they were making this comparison in the article. The writer is entitled to his/her opinion on the movie. Even though it didn't do as well as hoped back in 1978, I get the sense that it has continued to sell very well on the home viewing market, as we've seen it reissued countless times in different DVD and Blu-ray packages over the years. I feel that the film has become more legendary and appreciated over time, for the most part.

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    It’s quite strange but I think The Wiz may now be the movie she is best known for

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    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    It’s quite strange but I think The Wiz may now be the movie she is best known for
    I also sense the same.

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    Why didn’t they slap some makeup on Ross and a nice wig? She looked horrible. So did Michael Jackson.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    It’s quite strange but I think The Wiz may now be the movie she is best known for
    That's because black audiences keep playing it lmao

    Also the songs from the original musical are timeless and I think that's the real reason they watch the film because without it, the film was a hot mess.

    Nothing looked right. Even the songs performed on the film compared to the play was off. Of the film, I really only liked Ted Ross, Mabel King and Richard Pryor. Diana's Dorothy was a little too depressed and Michael's Scarecrow was trying too hard to be clumsy all while doing his famous dance moves [[which you don't see much of because the camera kept zooming him out lmao).

    The musical from a few years ago on NBC actually righted a lot of wrongs from the film. Like Dorothy was just meant to be a 12-year-old girl from Kansas, not a streetwise twentysomething schoolteacher from Harlem. LOL

    I looked at the film in recent years and...it doesn't hold up at all. I wouldn't compare it to Black Panther though... weird comparison.

    Wanna see Diana at her finest as an actor? Watch Lady Sings the Blues, not The Wiz.
    Last edited by midnightman; 07-11-2020 at 02:16 AM.

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    The article raises some really valid points.
    In my own opinion the film was pretty awful then and is much the same now. I only ever watch it because it’s Diana, though i think M.J the best thing in it.
    As far as musicals go it was the Xanadu of the 70’s. The musics great, but the films s—t.

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    I know The Wiz is now the most watched and popular of her films but its lack of success hurt her film career at the time. It did not do well and Gordy did not include it in the Motown 25 show because of that. Whatever reason it resonates with audiences now it didn't back then. It wasn't the hip, updated version it could have been. Diana Ross is an excellent actress. Her work in her first film was superb and she nearly won the Oscar for Lady Sings the Blues. Mahogany was not nearly as good but Ross acted very well in it. I remember reading that she was very good and critics felt it was a Modern day "Womans" picture much like the ones headlined by Bette Davis and Joan Crawford in the 1930-40's. Ross was heralded for designing the costumes herself, some which are quite memorable. The theme song was nominated for an Oscar. The Wiz reviews felt she was miscast and too old to play Dorothy, her acting choices of playing scared and downbeat were stating she did not project the talent of Diana Ross onscreen. Her television movies were similar as Out of Darkness , which was about mental illness showed again what she could do with a well written, weighty role. She was nominated for a Golden Globe for her performance. Double Platinum with Brandy was escapist fare much like Mahogany was. She didn't have as meaty a role to sink her teeth into but it was enjoyable fare with many enjoyable songs on it. Still, The Wiz at the time was heralded as finally having a big Hollywood movie featuring a black cast that wasn't "blaxploitation" films which was a phrase coined at that time. The studios were hoping the musical would usher in a new and different era with black casts in different kind of fares. Yet, the film did not catch on at the time. The only positive thing that came out of it that critics considered was the pairing of Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones for Jackson's upcoming outstanding musical career. I may be wrong on what I wrote-so forgive me-it was just what I remember reading in the media at the time. I still think it is a shame that Ross hasn't been in more films as she is a good actress. In fact, I also think Mary Wilson could have been an actress after seeing her in some films. Cindy Birdsong had appeared in plays but did not go that route. Florence Ballard, I remembered reading, was considered to be cast in Hello Dolly and that would have been perfect casting. Still, I find The Wiz enjoyable enough but the least liked of her films for me and I wonder if anyone younger could share the insight as to why it is so popular now.

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    Growing up, most of my peers and myself loved The Wiz, and I imagine for most of us that love hasn't gone anywhere. We did not sit down to The Wiz with the expectations that our parents did. Stephanie Mills was the lady on the cover of my mother's I've Got the Cure album, she was not Dorothy to us. All we saw were great musical numbers and of course Michael Jackson. As an adult I still hold the movie in high regard, but will concede that it probably would've been ten times better in the hands of a different director. And while Black Panther had this overt Black experience narrative, The Wiz wasn't without some covert messages. I once read that the cabs constantly reading out of service and pulling off when the characters approached, was a nod to the experience of Black people attempting to hail a cab and being passed by.

    What I found interesting about this review is that the reviewer seems to justify Hollywood's reluctance to finance more films with Black casts after the failure of The Wiz rather than call it what it was which was racism. So one Black casted movie fails and it means people don't want to see Black people in films and that line of thinking is okay? FOH.

    The Wiz rocks!

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    REALLY ? The Black Panthers film compared to the Wiz ?? Why ?
    Believe it or not, The Wizard of Oz was a box office bomb when it was released in 1939..
    It was re-released The Wizard of Oz in 1949 for its 10th anniversary and it eventually became a profitable film for the studio, and it added $1.5 million to its box office.
    I would say the Wiz is probably more comparable to that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captainjames View Post
    REALLY ? The Black Panthers film compared to the Wiz ?? Why ?
    Believe it or not, The Wizard of Oz was a box office bomb when it was released in 1939..
    It was re-released The Wizard of Oz in 1949 for its 10th anniversary and it eventually became a profitable film for the studio, and it added $1.5 million to its box office.
    I would say the Wiz is probably more comparable to that.
    That’s what you always read - it’s a “cult classic” say the most recent liner notes

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    Ran, I think this person definitely was being a bit racist. Black films definitely make bread. WAITING TO EXHALE proved that in 1995!

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    Perhaps the film is best compared to Marmite.... You either love it or you hate it lol.
    I do remember that here in the UK it received mostly, if not entirely negative reviews with Diana taking the brunt of most of the criticism.
    After the fun but camp nonsense of Mahogany, she really needed a meaty role to build on the huge acclaim and momentum generated by her captivating performance in LSTB. Sadly The Wiz brought everything to a grinding halt.
    The film is saved for me by the wonderful score with Diana’s voice is in fine fettle. She turns out some really moving and powerful vocal performances.

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    Another problem it had is that Motown and Universal hyped it so much that everyone was expecting a masterpiece. When turned out to be dud, people were disappointed and radio stopped with the constant playing of "Ease On Down the Road".

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    my young niece who is now a brilliant school teacher, when she finally found out that my obsessions were Diana Ross and David Bowie, told me that she loved them.. Her pop music growing up was the 90's Britney Spears, Backstreet Boys etc.. so I asked how could she love them..like millions of kids her age, cable movies helped to 'baby sit ' her,and her two go to classics of cable were box office bombs that young America grew up watching over and over..Ross in The Wiz and Bowie in Labyrinth neither of which I was able to sit through from start to finish.. about a decade ago at work, a young man of color was sitting at a table with a few of us older folks, and when I started to talk about ' when Diana Ross left The Supremes.." he said, "Diana Ross was in The Supremes?" and a handful of us looked at each other and laughed.. Yes, he knew her primarily as The Wiz!! what can I tell ya? [[like my niece, he loved it./.)

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    Diana had some strong vocals in the movie especially with home but I always relate to the song " A Brand New Day" from the Wiz. Quincy, Diana, Michael, Ted and Nipsey were at the top of their game on this one.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia View Post
    my young niece who is now a brilliant school teacher, when she finally found out that my obsessions were Diana Ross and David Bowie, told me that she loved them.. Her pop music growing up was the 90's Britney Spears, Backstreet Boys etc.. so I asked how could she love them..like millions of kids her age, cable movies helped to 'baby sit ' her,and her two go to classics of cable were box office bombs that young America grew up watching over and over..Ross in The Wiz and Bowie in Labyrinth neither of which I was able to sit through from start to finish.. about a decade ago at work, a young man of color was sitting at a table with a few of us older folks, and when I started to talk about ' when Diana Ross left The Supremes.." he said, "Diana Ross was in The Supremes?" and a handful of us looked at each other and laughed.. Yes, he knew her primarily as The Wiz!! what can I tell ya? [[like my niece, he loved it./.)
    Ha ! That is funny!

    Have to admit there are solo artists that emerged from groups that I didn't realize the evolution. why just this day in fact, I learned that SEASONS IN THE SUN singer Terry Jacks , fifty years ago was a member of the Poppy Family and on the chart with:



    oh and that the Poppies weren't a family at all...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Perhaps the film is best compared to Marmite.... You either love it or you hate it lol.
    I do remember that here in the UK it received mostly, if not entirely negative reviews with Diana taking the brunt of most of the criticism.
    After the fun but camp nonsense of Mahogany, she really needed a meaty role to build on the huge acclaim and momentum generated by her captivating performance in LSTB. Sadly The Wiz brought everything to a grinding halt.
    The film is saved for me by the wonderful score with Diana’s voice is in fine fettle. She turns out some really moving and powerful vocal performances.
    If she was giving the greenlight for the Josephine Baker film, that might've worked.

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    Black Panther is the biggest grossing solo super hero film ever made--in the top ten of all movies, on top of that

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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    If she was giving the greenlight for the Josephine Baker film, that might've worked.
    For all Diana’s bravado regarding filming The Wiz, i think the tidal wave of negative, critical comment she received really burnt her. She was simply not use to failure.
    I have always thought this was one of the reasons she was reluctant to commit to any further film projects.
    The proposed JB biopic was different as being very personal to her. Perhaps her insistence that she at least co-produce the film stems from insecurities regarding how The Wiz turned out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    For all Diana’s bravado regarding filming The Wiz, i think the tidal wave of negative, critical comment she received really burnt her. She was simply not use to failure.
    I have always thought this was one of the reasons she was reluctant to commit to any further film projects.
    The proposed JB biopic was different as being very personal to her. Perhaps her insistence that she at least co-produce the film stems from insecurities regarding how The Wiz turned out.
    I think it made her more careful, but it did not stop Hollywood from giving her offers…… On the offer she wanted to make we’re not involved.

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    I can’t watch it I can’t watch it I can’t watch it I can’t watch it I can’t watch it and I’m jealous jealous jealous jealous jealous of those who like it.

    The two biggest entertainment disappointments of my life R in order:

    1) The Lucy Show - I couldn’t believe that Lucy was coming back to television I was so excited I couldn’t stand it, until I saw the first episode and couldn’t stand THAT. she was like some old bitch had taken over the role of Lucy Ricardo and turned her into a braying harridan With not one clever line of dialogue in the entire series to say. As the credits rolled at the end of that first episode, I was sick to my stomach.

    2) The Wiz. I couldn’t imagine how they were going to film the story to begin with because the fantasy element from the stage would be very very difficult to transfer it to the screen. I couldn’t imagine that a 33-year-old woman would be playing the part of a 12-year-old girl. MGM was afraid that Judy Garland looked too old when they released the Wizard of Oz in 1939 because she was 16 when they filmed it. But I figured that universal knew what they were doing, they knew they had cast a 33-year-old, they knew they were spending twice with any musical head ever cost, they knew they were casting Michael Jackson even though he had absolutely no idea how to say a line of dialogue up until then, and they knew they had to redeem themselves after mahogany. So I put all my reservations aside and happily eagerly went to the sneak preview with a bunch of friends. The minutes flew by like hours. I knew from the opening credits it was going to be a disaster. I knew from the opening scene it’s going to be a disaster. I knew when I saw the snow storm in those awful special effects it was going to be a disaster. I knew that when the lighting was going to be so awful and hard to see any of the songs were going to be like funeral dirges It was going to be a disaster. The few little bright spots in it meant nothing to me and still don’t. I’m glad that it has found eager eyes and ears - I cannot watch it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
    I can’t watch it I can’t watch it I can’t watch it I can’t watch it I can’t watch it and I’m jealous jealous jealous jealous jealous of those who like it.

    The two biggest entertainment disappointments of my life R in order:

    1) The Lucy Show - I couldn’t believe that Lucy was coming back to television I was so excited I couldn’t stand it, until I saw the first episode and couldn’t stand THAT. she was like some old bitch had taken over the role of Lucy Ricardo and turned her into a braying harridan With not one clever line of dialogue in the entire series to say. As the credits rolled at the end of that first episode, I was sick to my stomach.

    2) The Wiz. I couldn’t imagine how they were going to film the story to begin with because the fantasy element from the stage would be very very difficult to transfer it to the screen. I couldn’t imagine that a 33-year-old woman would be playing the part of a 12-year-old girl. MGM was afraid that Judy Garland looked too old when they released the Wizard of Oz in 1939 because she was 16 when they filmed it. But I figured that universal knew what they were doing, they knew they had cast a 33-year-old, they knew they were spending twice with any musical head ever cost, they knew they were casting Michael Jackson even though he had absolutely no idea how to say a line of dialogue up until then, and they knew they had to redeem themselves after mahogany. So I put all my reservations aside and happily eagerly went to the sneak preview with a bunch of friends. The minutes flew by like hours. I knew from the opening credits it was going to be a disaster. I knew from the opening scene it’s going to be a disaster. I knew when I saw the snow storm in those awful special effects it was going to be a disaster. I knew that when the lighting was going to be so awful and hard to see any of the songs were going to be like funeral dirges It was going to be a disaster. The few little bright spots in it meant nothing to me and still don’t. I’m glad that it has found eager eyes and ears - I cannot watch it.
    I actually liked The Lucy Show very much especially when Vivian Vance was still on the show. They certainly couldn't remake I Love Lucy but the Lucy Show held up until Viv left and then Gale Gordon took over what essentially was the Ricky role which made Lucy Carmichael more into a scatterbrain getting him all riled up. Here's Lucy was the one that was disappointing to me. The Wiz was just not directed properly and as much as I love Diana Ross and see her est intentions, she was miscast and was not directed properly-she was so sad, scared and down that it was hard to really root for her character like you did with Judy Garland's Dorothy. I get it was 2 different concepts, but it just didn't work artistically nor did it find a huge audience until later[[which was also true of the Wizard of Oz, which really took off after yearly television showings).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    The proposed JB biopic was different as being very personal to her. Perhaps her insistence that she at least co-produce the film stems from insecurities regarding how The Wiz turned out.
    Oh my Lord, she wanted to coproduce a major motion picture???? What a delusional woman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Circa 1824 View Post
    Oh my Lord, she wanted to coproduce a major motion picture???? What a delusional woman.
    Good lord I hope this is sarcasm. Diana was the executive producer of Out of Darkness which holds a 7.7/10 rating on IMDB and garnered her a Golden Globe nomination.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    For all Diana’s bravado regarding filming The Wiz, i think the tidal wave of negative, critical comment she received really burnt her. She was simply not use to failure.
    I have always thought this was one of the reasons she was reluctant to commit to any further film projects.
    The proposed JB biopic was different as being very personal to her. Perhaps her insistence that she at least co-produce the film stems from insecurities regarding how The Wiz turned out.
    I can only imagine what she was going through. After so many years of success... I mean after slowly climbing to the top with the Supremes, she experienced, like, almost 15 years of unprecedented success only for "The Wiz" to be her first real flop since becoming a superstar. You're right, that probably did play a part in how she found herself burnt out from Hollywood at that time. I still argue she probably shouldn't have taken the role. I can see it being a hit if the cast was Stephanie Mills, Michael Jackson, Nipsey Russell and Ted Ross. Not that I'm blaming Diana for the failure either but I just don't think she fit the role.

    That's not to say she didn't have great vocal moments in it. I love her version of "Home" [[though I prefer Stephanie and Whitney's versions over her, still her version is a showstopper too, that goes into how great the song is and how great all three were as singers) and, like you mentioned, "A Brand New Day" was really good. I need to listen to her solo version.

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    Quote Originally Posted by monicarivers View Post
    Good lord I hope this is sarcasm. Diana was the executive producer of Out of Darkness which holds a 7.7/10 rating on IMDB and garnered her a Golden Globe nomination.
    Oh shock, Circa is not as big a Diana Ross fan as he let on... lol
    Diana was also the executive producer of Double Platinum and, I think, the Motown 40 ABC documentary [[I think anyway).

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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    "A Brand New Day" was really good. I need to listen to her solo version.
    Regarding the “Diana Ross sings songs from the Wiz” project. Although production was unfinished, I thought her interpretations were brilliant. I was most looking forward to “Brand new day” because it’s one of my favorites, and if I must say, one of the best musical production numbers of all time. I was so disappointed in her solo attempt. I know it was unfinished, but she totally missed the mark. There was no excitement, it was very lackluster. It really needed background voices. But even if she had background voices, it still wouldn’t have been much better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by khansperac View Post
    Regarding the “Diana Ross sings songs from the Wiz” project. Although production was unfinished, I thought her interpretations were brilliant. I was most looking forward to “Brand new day” because it’s one of my favorites, and if I must say, one of the best musical production numbers of all time. I was so disappointed in her solo attempt. I know it was unfinished, but she totally missed the mark. There was no excitement, it was very lackluster. It really needed background voices. But even if she had background voices, it still wouldn’t have been much better.
    Aww that sucks...

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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Aww that sucks...
    Have you never heard this project 🤔 lol. If not, give it a listen. It is fascinating. She does something I didn’t think was possible. She out sung herself on “be a lion”. It’s better than the movie/soundtrack version believe it or not. IMO. Just keep in mind, most of the tracks are unfinished/ no background parts. But what’s there is some of the most creative stuff she’s done. She sings them in character instead of just singing them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by khansperac View Post
    Have you never heard this project 🤔 lol. If not, give it a listen. It is fascinating. She does something I didn’t think was possible. She out sung herself on “be a lion”. It’s better than the movie/soundtrack version believe it or not. IMO. Just keep in mind, most of the tracks are unfinished/ no background parts. But what’s there is some of the most creative stuff she’s done. She sings them in character instead of just singing them.
    “The Feeling That We Have” is incredible- reminds me of the vocal highs from her 1979 Caesars Palace show.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim aka jtigre99 View Post
    I actually liked The Lucy Show very much especially when Vivian Vance was still on the show. They certainly couldn't remake I Love Lucy but the Lucy Show held up until Viv left and then Gale Gordon took over what essentially was the Ricky role which made Lucy Carmichael more into a scatterbrain getting him all riled up. Here's Lucy was the one that was disappointing to me. The Wiz was just not directed properly and as much as I love Diana Ross and see her est intentions, she was miscast and was not directed properly-she was so sad, scared and down that it was hard to really root for her character like you did with Judy Garland's Dorothy. I get it was 2 different concepts, but it just didn't work artistically nor did it find a huge audience until later[[which was also true of the Wizard of Oz, which really took off after yearly television showings).
    I’m glad you like The Lucy Show I know another person who does also. I like the ones with Ann sothern and Ethel Merman, other than that,……. I like here’s Lucy better because Desi Junior was so hot. But Lucy Junior was so annoying. I think Miss Ross should stick to acting. The scenes they printed that Tony Richardson did in mahogany were very impressive. There’s a difference between being allowed to do some thing, and doing it well. I don’t consider diana ross a visionary when it comes to film or music. She certainly was a visionary as far as the appearance of the supremes went. She knows how to work a stage as well or better than anyone anywhere but that doesn’t make her a movie producer. Being the executive producer of something generally means you didn’t have any hands-on creative decisions, but maybe help put the production together. I always believed the reason why Josephine Baker didn’t get made was her insistence on producing the film. I can’t imagine meetings with Barry Diller trying to have a savvy conversation about movie production with Diana Ross. Well, actually I can, but don’t to. She just didn’t have enough experience and her instincts were iffy at best. It’s like when Desi left the Lucy show, in my opinion it went from bad to unwatchable. Soon Gary Martin was producing Lucy and it was their cool cooperative genius that brought the disaster of disasters, Life With Lucy. Lucy was an actress, and nothing more. She mined that character for all it was worth And milked it dry, but there’s a reason You never see them and no one ever talks about them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by khansperac View Post
    Have you never heard this project �� lol. If not, give it a listen. It is fascinating. She does something I didn’t think was possible. She out sung herself on “be a lion”. It’s better than the movie/soundtrack version believe it or not. IMO. Just keep in mind, most of the tracks are unfinished/ no background parts. But what’s there is some of the most creative stuff she’s done. She sings them in character instead of just singing them.
    I heard about it. Just hadn't listened to many tracks from it.

    I'm gonna listen to her version of "The Feeling We Once Had" and "Be a Lion" right afterwards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captainjames View Post
    REALLY ? The Black Panthers film compared to the Wiz ?? Why ?
    Believe it or not, The Wizard of Oz was a box office bomb when it was released in 1939..
    It was re-released The Wizard of Oz in 1949 for its 10th anniversary and it eventually became a profitable film for the studio, and it added $1.5 million to its box office.
    I would say the Wiz is probably more comparable to that.
    Excellent point about the Wizard Of Oz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Ran, I think this person definitely was being a bit racist. Black films definitely make bread. WAITING TO EXHALE proved that in 1995!
    The Color Purple was even earlier than that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia View Post
    my young niece who is now a brilliant school teacher, when she finally found out that my obsessions were Diana Ross and David Bowie, told me that she loved them.. Her pop music growing up was the 90's Britney Spears, Backstreet Boys etc.. so I asked how could she love them..like millions of kids her age, cable movies helped to 'baby sit ' her,and her two go to classics of cable were box office bombs that young America grew up watching over and over..Ross in The Wiz and Bowie in Labyrinth neither of which I was able to sit through from start to finish.. about a decade ago at work, a young man of color was sitting at a table with a few of us older folks, and when I started to talk about ' when Diana Ross left The Supremes.." he said, "Diana Ross was in The Supremes?" and a handful of us looked at each other and laughed.. Yes, he knew her primarily as The Wiz!! what can I tell ya? [[like my niece, he loved it./.)
    The Wiz and Labyrinth. My childhood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captainjames View Post
    Diana had some strong vocals in the movie especially with home but I always relate to the song " A Brand New Day" from the Wiz. Quincy, Diana, Michael, Ted and Nipsey were at the top of their game on this one.

    That's my favorite scene in the movie. There's a point where Diana is letting loose vocally during this scene that I thought for a time that it was Stephanie Mills given a crumb of participation until I realized, nope, that's Ross tearing it up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    For all Diana’s bravado regarding filming The Wiz, i think the tidal wave of negative, critical comment she received really burnt her. She was simply not use to failure.
    I have always thought this was one of the reasons she was reluctant to commit to any further film projects.
    The proposed JB biopic was different as being very personal to her. Perhaps her insistence that she at least co-produce the film stems from insecurities regarding how The Wiz turned out.
    I've participated in the various discussions in this forum that have popped up from time to time regarding the lack of Diana's acting career, but I don't believe I've ever contemplated the aspect you present here Ollie. It's an excellent point to consider. I'm thinking this is exactly what happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by khansperac View Post
    Regarding the “Diana Ross sings songs from the Wiz” project. Although production was unfinished, I thought her interpretations were brilliant. I was most looking forward to “Brand new day” because it’s one of my favorites, and if I must say, one of the best musical production numbers of all time. I was so disappointed in her solo attempt. I know it was unfinished, but she totally missed the mark. There was no excitement, it was very lackluster. It really needed background voices. But even if she had background voices, it still wouldn’t have been much better.
    I was impressed with the ballads. She sung the hell out of "Feeling We Once Had", "Be A Lion", and "Wonder, Wonder Why". "Believe In Yourself" is a pleasant listen, although I hope that a final vocal would've eventually been cut where she gives the song the same intensity as she did the other ballads I mentioned. "He's the Wizard" has this really sexy vibe that, without the silly vocals, might- might- have worked as a single. But some of the cuts it's glaringly obvious they were demos and needed more work. But she turned in some fantastic vocal performances on others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    The Color Purple was even earlier than that.
    Dag, I forgot about The Color Purple! You're right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Dag, I forgot about The Color Purple! You're right.
    Don’t forget “Purple Rain” which was released before that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by khansperac View Post
    Don’t forget “Purple Rain” which was released before that.
    Lol when I think of certain times black films dominate, I can forget lol but yeah Purple Rain raked in the bucks when it came out in 1984... how Prince pulled that off is astonishing looking back!

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    the young ones who grew up with The Wiz [[and Labyrinth) watched the films with no knowledge or expectations or knowledge of Ross [[or Bowie) they just watched the films at face value and loved them..the older fans came with the grocery lists of expectations which just could not be met..welcome to the world of aging..

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    it's not uncommon for films that were minimally successful at time of release [[or even flops) to find second lives.

    Rocky Horror Picture Show
    Mommie Dearest
    Xanadu
    The Wiz

    If you look at any of these, and in this case The Wiz, there's typically a long list of "problems" when comparing the work to a traditionally successful film. The cinematography might be for shit, over-the-top acting, insane directorial decisions. Sometimes you gotta just wonder if the producers, director and staff were simply working through mountains of cocaine to come up with this degree of lunacy.

    But people don't always expect celluloid masterpieces with everything they watch.

    Escapism, fantasy, goofy fun. all of these can make for an enjoyable experience

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post

    But people don't always expect celluloid masterpieces with everything they watch.

    Escapism, fantasy, goofy fun. all of these can make for an enjoyable experience
    You would think this is a radical concept. That's why I rarely- if ever- pay attention to professional critics when it comes to movies. Sometimes a movie is just a movie. Lose yourself in it for about 90 or so minutes and then move on. The musical scenes in the movie are among the best I've seen in any movie musical.

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    exactly. there's a huge range of categories and genres and each has their value.

    Mommie Dearest - was built out as a "serious" drama but is loved today as high camp. it's provided so much fan and audience fun

    Xanadu - what a train wreck, when viewed as a traditional musical like Singing In The Rain or Sound of Music. But holy fuck lolol what a hysterical rainy-day, lounge out on the couch with a pizza and wine and laugh your head off at the clearly cocaine induced nonsense lol

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    All four of them are seen as camp films because there were SOME redeeming qualities about these films. I guess in The Wiz's case, it was the music, choreography and the costumes [[especially in the Emerald scene). The LGBT community in particular are fond of The Wiz film for this very reason [[not to mention Diana starred in the film, which was a BIG get for why it's lasted).

    Rocky Horror, I never got what was so bad about it, I actually thought the acting was well done, as over the top as it was, plus I'm probably biased because even though I wasn't born when it came out, it was always my favorite film to watch during Halloween season when VH1 would air it [[I do think the script could've been more fleshed out though especially with Frank).

    Xanadu was just too over the top lol plus Olivia Newton John! That's almost enough for that film to be campy.

    Mommie Dearest was Faye Dunaway's best role. It was as much comedy as it was drama though the subject matter of child abuse is pretty real.

    I think in a sense, Whatever Happened to Baby Jane also falls in that camp category.

    What separates The Wiz from the others mentioned is probably the acting. Like I said, they had Diana's Dorothy looking like a frightened animal the whole time lol even in scenes where she wasn't supposed to be frightened. I kept thinking "someone really didn't like Diana doing this and just decided to make her look more and more miserable".

    Shanice Williams and Stephanie Mills in the original musical were more animated, as was Judy Garland when they played Dorothy.

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    In the black community, the Wiz is not a camp classic. It is just a classic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by khansperac View Post
    In the black community, the Wiz is not a camp classic. It is just a classic.
    I just mentioned LGBT lol

    I know it's considered a classic in the black community. I mean, it's The Wiz. One of the few musicals where many blacks actually proved they love to see a Broadway play.

    I'm sorry but I have to post Stephanie Mills' Broadway version of Home here lol

    This is how important The Wiz is to black people:


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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    exactly. there's a huge range of categories and genres and each has their value.

    Mommie Dearest - was built out as a "serious" drama but is loved today as high camp. it's provided so much fan and audience fun

    Xanadu - what a train wreck, when viewed as a traditional musical like Singing In The Rain or Sound of Music. But holy fuck lolol what a hysterical rainy-day, lounge out on the couch with a pizza and wine and laugh your head off at the clearly cocaine induced nonsense lol
    I tend to think of Mommie-Dearest as a kind of Whatever Happened To Baby Jane. Both have huge camp appeal in being extremely theatrical.
    Xanadu is indeed a train wreck. It’s so bad it’s good lol. Music is great though.
    Fans have posted about 70’s audience expectations of The Wiz. I think the main expectation was the hope of seeing a decent movie. I remember showing the film to my nieces in the 90’s when they were young. They lost interest after the first 30 mins. There was simply no magic.

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