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Thread: Diana & Tammi

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    Diana & Tammi

    In a scenario that in1970 Diana had decided to retire from the music scene and assuming Tammi Terrell is fit and healthy.
    Would Berry Gordy have concentrated all his efforts into making her a global superstar the way he did Diana?. She was most certainly very beautiful with a commercial, crossover sound that had massive potential. Did she possess enough of the unique charisma, sparkle and energy of a Diana Ross to fulfil Mr Gordys dreams of creating a black female international superstar?.

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    I don't think so Ollie. I once opined that Tammi would've been the perfect replacement for Diana in the Supremes had she not been ill. I still believe that to be true. She possessed all those qualities you listed. However, in the event Diana had decided enough was enough, become disillusioned and moved into the next phase of her life, leaving music behind, I don't think Tammi would've gotten that attention for two reasons.

    First reason being, after all the work Gordy put into molding Diana and placing her in position to keep moving up in the world of entertainment, to suddenly have her quit would've disillusioned him. I know a lot of people buy into the story that Gordy always had his eyes on moving into the big time clubs, the Vegas crowd, the superstar that transcends all. I don't buy it. I don't think he really thought that far ahead until he realized what Diana, and by extension, the Supremes could do. I know some have said he looked at doing that for Mary Wells, but where's the evidence? I think Ross' talent lit a spark in Gordy that caused his dream to soar beyond records that crossover. So having that dream suddenly evaporate, I think Gordy would've thrown himself back into the actual business of making records. It would've been like having a long lasting love affair that becomes your everything, and then one day having your significant other walk out the door, giving you the finger. People have killed themselves for less, so you can imagine how devastating something like that could've been. I don't think he would've had the heart and energy to begin to mold anyone else, at least not for many years. Maybe he would've turned that attention to Michael Jackson in the wake of Diana leaving, since that would be the easiest avenue for his dreams, plus he was a kid, and on top of that a male, so it would've been different. But that's best case scenario. I really think Gordy would've just stuck to records.

    The other reason is Tammi's "off the field" life. We all know Gordy had his hands full for years with Diana and some of the wild shit she got herself into. Tammi was supposedly 10 times as worse. Factor in that she somehow always seemed to end up with volatile men who didn't hesitate to physically abuse her, and that's a whole lot of drama that Gordy would have to attempt to control. Remember, Gordy came into Diana's life when she was about 16. He took an early interest in her, encouraged her, made sure she knew that he believed in her talent, which was something Diana never felt that her own father was ever willing to do. So there was a fatherly complex that was present in their relationship from the very beginning. By 1970 Tammi was what, 24, 25? Gordy could've certainly have taken on a role of mentor in her life, but I doubt he would've ever been able to control her [[sexual relationship or not, because there was also that element of Gordy's "control" in regards to Diana) the way that he did Diana. Gordy couldn't risk his #1 star ending up in the tabloids or being photographed with black eyes and bruises.

    So my answer no, Tammi would not have been the lady Gordy put all his money on.

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    very interesting topic. sort of 2 topics really. other ideal candidates to replace Diana in the Supremes and other ideal candidates to be Berry's "chosen one"

    as for the first, yes i think Tammi would have worked pretty well. but i think it would have been a shorter life for the group IMO. Jean was quite different from Diana whereas Tammi isn't so much so. that difference gave the group renewed life. Sure some of the decline was due to motown's attention being elsewhere. but that would have happened regardless of who replaced Diana. with Jean you had something totally new and that propelled the group on for a couple years. I think with tammi it might have fizzled sooner

    the second topic is much more challenging.

    Diana was a master at entertainment. the perfect Mistress of the Ceremonies, as she first proved on TCB. She tackled just about every genre of music from country to pop to jazz to showtunes and more. and did pretty much all of it with a vivacity that was spellbinding.

    Diana's success isn't a fluke. it's the result of insane work and insane talent. her talent really justified this too. while there were many, many very talented singers at motown i don't know that there were any Entertainers even remotely close to diana. Tammi, Syreeta, Martha, Gladys, Mary wells, Mary wilson, Florence, Kim Weston, Brenda Holloway, Claudia Robinson, etc. All were very talented, performed beautifully. But none were as wildly versatile and compelling as Diana. So none could have conquered what she did. and if she had quit, Berry wouldn't have had an alt in the background to quickly step into her shoes.

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    Sup you're right about Diana being a product of insane work. Talent only get's a person so far. I think some of the ladies on your list, with the same amount of attention that Diana received, could've been as compelling an entertainer as Diana. Remember, her MC abilities, her versatility, her stage presence, that was targeted teaching from Motown. Diana sucked as Mistress of Ceremonies until sometime in 1966. She stumbles over words. Sometimes it's clear that she's had some elocution lessons and she's trying too hard to practice what she's been taught. I don't think she really comes into it until 1966. And while everyone pretty much agrees that Diana was a talented singer from day one, no one ever suggests that in the early days she'd take the stage and command it. That's not to knock her. As Aretha said, even then there was a certain something that was likeable about her. But in those early days Diana had talent and ambition. Motown- Gordy- was able to take that and hone it into the legend we know today.

    Without the other ladies having the same opportunity to be transformed into something "bigger", I don't think there can ever be an accurate measurement of who didn't have it. Except Martha Reeves. I'm sorry. I LOVE Martha. Martha and the Vandellas are in my top 5 favorite female groups of all time. I have all of their stuff, and two of Martha's solo albums. Her voice [[at it's best) is among my favorite voices of all time. But when I watch her performances from back in the day...oh boy. She just didn't have the stage presence to be anything other than a stand and sing artist, which is just fine in my book. But if you're looking for superstars, Martha just wouldn't have been it. But those other ladies? We'll just never know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Sup you're right about Diana being a product of insane work. Talent only get's a person so far. I think some of the ladies on your list, with the same amount of attention that Diana received, could've been as compelling an entertainer as Diana. Remember, her MC abilities, her versatility, her stage presence, that was targeted teaching from Motown. Diana sucked as Mistress of Ceremonies until sometime in 1966. She stumbles over words. Sometimes it's clear that she's had some elocution lessons and she's trying too hard to practice what she's been taught. I don't think she really comes into it until 1966. And while everyone pretty much agrees that Diana was a talented singer from day one, no one ever suggests that in the early days she'd take the stage and command it. That's not to knock her. As Aretha said, even then there was a certain something that was likeable about her. But in those early days Diana had talent and ambition. Motown- Gordy- was able to take that and hone it into the legend we know today.

    Without the other ladies having the same opportunity to be transformed into something "bigger", I don't think there can ever be an accurate measurement of who didn't have it. Except Martha Reeves. I'm sorry. I LOVE Martha. Martha and the Vandellas are in my top 5 favorite female groups of all time. I have all of their stuff, and two of Martha's solo albums. Her voice [[at it's best) is among my favorite voices of all time. But when I watch her performances from back in the day...oh boy. She just didn't have the stage presence to be anything other than a stand and sing artist, which is just fine in my book. But if you're looking for superstars, Martha just wouldn't have been it. But those other ladies? We'll just never know.
    i disagree a bit with your assessment of her early work. you can't look at what she was doing at, say, An Evening With Diana Ross in 1977 and compare it to her stage presence and all in 1963. of course she was developed, mentored, trained, etc. That's been one of the most exciting things of these Expanded Editions is to hear that evolution.

    now your point is valid that, with investment and training, could some of those other women have evolved. I think it's an absolute Yes. but would they have achieved the level of Diana, in terms of stage presence and all, i don't think so.

    There's been a lot of talk in the books about the "motown myth" how motown took a bunch of crass and slovenly ghetto kids and transformed them like Eliza Doolitttle. that's false. the "diamond in the rough" is more accurate. they were poised, mannerly young adults that were given training and education on the art of theater and stage. IMO Diana was a higher grade diamond than the others in this sense. you're just working with someone that has this odd ability

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    In a scenario that in1970 Diana had decided to retire from the music scene and assuming Tammi Terrell is fit and healthy.
    Would Berry Gordy have concentrated all his efforts into making her a global superstar the way he did Diana?. She was most certainly very beautiful with a commercial, crossover sound that had massive potential. Did she possess enough of the unique charisma, sparkle and energy of a Diana Ross to fulfil Mr Gordys dreams of creating a black female international superstar?.
    None of that would have worked! Two extremely different people. Tammi Terrell had a mind of her own and was not a puppet. Diana Ross was much more malleable [[especially when it came to Berry Gordy Jr.) You can call it charisma, sparkle, energy or whatever you want. It really came down to being submissive and obedient to the boss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    very interesting topic. sort of 2 topics really. other ideal candidates to replace Diana in the Supremes and other ideal candidates to be Berry's "chosen one"

    as for the first, yes i think Tammi would have worked pretty well. but i think it would have been a shorter life for the group IMO. Jean was quite different from Diana whereas Tammi isn't so much so. that difference gave the group renewed life. Sure some of the decline was due to motown's attention being elsewhere. but that would have happened regardless of who replaced Diana. with Jean you had something totally new and that propelled the group on for a couple years. I think with tammi it might have fizzled sooner

    the second topic is much more challenging.

    Diana was a master at entertainment. the perfect Mistress of the Ceremonies, as she first proved on TCB. She tackled just about every genre of music from country to pop to jazz to showtunes and more. and did pretty much all of it with a vivacity that was spellbinding.

    Diana's success isn't a fluke. it's the result of insane work and insane talent. her talent really justified this too. while there were many, many very talented singers at motown i don't know that there were any Entertainers even remotely close to diana. Tammi, Syreeta, Martha, Gladys, Mary wells, Mary wilson, Florence, Kim Weston, Brenda Holloway, Claudia Robinson, etc. All were very talented, performed beautifully. But none were as wildly versatile and compelling as Diana. So none could have conquered what she did. and if she had quit, Berry wouldn't have had an alt in the background to quickly step into her shoes.
    There were indeed many talented ladies at Motown with excellent voices. I agree that none possessed the incredible charisma and unique sound that Diana had.
    Out of all the other Female singers at Motown, i think that given full backing from the company Tammi had the best chance fulfilling Berrys dream of creating a black female superstar. It’s true she had her emotional problems, but then so have a vast contingency of the worlds leading female stars from the past hundred years.
    I choose Tammi because of her beauty [[it helps) and the fact she had a very commercial, crossover sound. Listening to a live recording of her at the Copa she proves if nothing else she was extremely versatile. Whether she would had the desire and work ethic to attain such a position we can only speculate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    There were indeed many talented ladies at Motown with excellent voices. I agree that none possessed the incredible charisma and unique sound that Diana had.
    Out of all the other Female singers at Motown, i think that given full backing from the company Tammi had the best chance fulfilling Berrys dream of creating a black female superstar. It’s true she had her emotional problems, but then so have a vast contingency of the worlds leading female stars from the past hundred years.
    I choose Tammi because of her beauty [[it helps) and the fact she had a very commercial, crossover sound. Listening to a live recording of her at the Copa she proves if nothing else she was extremely versatile. Whether she would had the desire and work ethic to attain such a position we can only speculate.
    Sometimes I wonder if many people remember her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Sup you're right about Diana being a product of insane work. Talent only get's a person so far. I think some of the ladies on your list, with the same amount of attention that Diana received, could've been as compelling an entertainer as Diana. Remember, her MC abilities, her versatility, her stage presence, that was targeted teaching from Motown. Diana sucked as Mistress of Ceremonies until sometime in 1966. She stumbles over words. Sometimes it's clear that she's had some elocution lessons and she's trying too hard to practice what she's been taught. I don't think she really comes into it until 1966. And while everyone pretty much agrees that Diana was a talented singer from day one, no one ever suggests that in the early days she'd take the stage and command it. That's not to knock her. As Aretha said, even then there was a certain something that was likeable about her. But in those early days Diana had talent and ambition. Motown- Gordy- was able to take that and hone it into the legend we know today.

    Without the other ladies having the same opportunity to be transformed into something "bigger", I don't think there can ever be an accurate measurement of who didn't have it. Except Martha Reeves. I'm sorry. I LOVE Martha. Martha and the Vandellas are in my top 5 favorite female groups of all time. I have all of their stuff, and two of Martha's solo albums. Her voice [[at it's best) is among my favorite voices of all time. But when I watch her performances from back in the day...oh boy. She just didn't have the stage presence to be anything other than a stand and sing artist, which is just fine in my book. But if you're looking for superstars, Martha just wouldn't have been it. But those other ladies? We'll just never know.
    Its quite difficult to judge with Tammi as she died so young. Remember Diana was given every possible advantage by Berry. She of course fully justified that attention given her incredible talent and work ethic. Who is to say though that if Tammi had been given that same support and guidance from day one just what she might have accomplished. She certainly ticked most of the boxes, and again had that crossover appeal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    None of that would have worked! Two extremely different people. Tammi Terrell had a mind of her own and was not a puppet. Diana Ross was much more malleable [[especially when it came to Berry Gordy Jr.) You can call it charisma, sparkle, energy or whatever you want. It really came down to being submissive and obedient to the boss.
    I think Diana possessed a little more then just being submissive and obedient marv. You can’t force people to buy your music or attend a concert. Don’t u think?.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Sometimes I wonder if many people remember her.
    Motown fans of course. Her duets with Marvin are still very popular and instantly recognisable so I’d like to think many still do.

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    Tammi was rough around the edges. It was who she was, and thus could not change and become more polished.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Circa 1824 View Post
    Tammi was rough around the edges. It was who she was, and thus could not change and become more polished.
    I have to agree. There would have been more fighting than discussions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I think Diana possessed a little more then just being submissive and obedient marv. You can’t force people to buy your music or attend a concert. Don’t u think?.
    I referring to the part of the process before your music is released for people to hear and buy. Had she been a headache to Mr. Gordy in the early years........no releases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I don't think so Ollie. I once opined that Tammi would've been the perfect replacement for Diana in the Supremes had she not been ill. I still believe that to be true. She possessed all those qualities you listed. However, in the event Diana had decided enough was enough, become disillusioned and moved into the next phase of her life, leaving music behind, I don't think Tammi would've gotten that attention for two reasons.

    First reason being, after all the work Gordy put into molding Diana and placing her in position to keep moving up in the world of entertainment, to suddenly have her quit would've disillusioned him. I know a lot of people buy into the story that Gordy always had his eyes on moving into the big time clubs, the Vegas crowd, the superstar that transcends all. I don't buy it. I don't think he really thought that far ahead until he realized what Diana, and by extension, the Supremes could do. I know some have said he looked at doing that for Mary Wells, but where's the evidence? I think Ross' talent lit a spark in Gordy that caused his dream to soar beyond records that crossover. So having that dream suddenly evaporate, I think Gordy would've thrown himself back into the actual business of making records. It would've been like having a long lasting love affair that becomes your everything, and then one day having your significant other walk out the door, giving you the finger. People have killed themselves for less, so you can imagine how devastating something like that could've been. I don't think he would've had the heart and energy to begin to mold anyone else, at least not for many years. Maybe he would've turned that attention to Michael Jackson in the wake of Diana leaving, since that would be the easiest avenue for his dreams, plus he was a kid, and on top of that a male, so it would've been different. But that's best case scenario. I really think Gordy would've just stuck to records.

    The other reason is Tammi's "off the field" life. We all know Gordy had his hands full for years with Diana and some of the wild shit she got herself into. Tammi was supposedly 10 times as worse. Factor in that she somehow always seemed to end up with volatile men who didn't hesitate to physically abuse her, and that's a whole lot of drama that Gordy would have to attempt to control. Remember, Gordy came into Diana's life when she was about 16. He took an early interest in her, encouraged her, made sure she knew that he believed in her talent, which was something Diana never felt that her own father was ever willing to do. So there was a fatherly complex that was present in their relationship from the very beginning. By 1970 Tammi was what, 24, 25? Gordy could've certainly have taken on a role of mentor in her life, but I doubt he would've ever been able to control her [[sexual relationship or not, because there was also that element of Gordy's "control" in regards to Diana) the way that he did Diana. Gordy couldn't risk his #1 star ending up in the tabloids or being photographed with black eyes and bruises.

    So my answer no, Tammi would not have been the lady Gordy put all his money on.
    From very early on i think Gordy had his eye on the big time. He saw Diana as his big chance and went for it. It helped she had the goods and shared the same dream. Was he grooming Mary Wells for that position before Diana?. Of that I’m not exactly sure. The company was still relatively in its infancy at that stage so Gordy probably lacked the clout within the industry. Had she remained, his plans for her and her position within the company would have been a little clearer by say 65.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    From very early on i think Gordy had his eye on the big time. He saw Diana as his big chance and went for it. It helped she had the goods and shared the same dream. Was he grooming Mary Wells for that position before Diana?. Of that I’m not exactly sure. The company was still relatively in its infancy at that stage so Gordy probably lacked the clout within the industry. Had she remained, his plans for her and her position within the company would have been a little clearer by say 65.
    The success of Mary Wells probably caught Berry a little off guard. In the beginning of Motown, he put almost all of his chips in the Miracles and Smokey Robinson but they weren't really delivering until the mid-1960s. Smokey had better success as a songwriter for others than his own group. Smokey unknowingly found the magic when he began working with Mary Wells, which is why Motown suddenly went from fledgling to rising. By the time Mary left in 1964 with "My Guy" being just the third number one song in Motown's history up to that point [["Please Mr. Postman" and "Fingertips" being the other ones), Motown was far from a powerhouse company until the year's end when the Supremes dominated along with the rising fortunes of the Four Tops, Temptations and Marvin Gaye. Motown in 1965 was a much different company than the one Mary Wells left so yeah I don't think Berry had major plans for Mary as he had for Diana.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i disagree a bit with your assessment of her early work. you can't look at what she was doing at, say, An Evening With Diana Ross in 1977 and compare it to her stage presence and all in 1963. of course she was developed, mentored, trained, etc. That's been one of the most exciting things of these Expanded Editions is to hear that evolution.
    But that's just it, she had be molded into the Diana Ross of An Evening With. She couldn't have carried that show in 1963, just like the rest of her female peers at Motown. There are some who are born with it, and some who aren't. IMO Diana Ross was not born with the ability to carry a show, not even as a vocalist. That part of her abilities had to be developed. Most of the artists, female and male, at Motown in those early years walked through the door with nothing but raw talent. Diana was not the exception, she was the rule.

    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    now your point is valid that, with investment and training, could some of those other women have evolved. I think it's an absolute Yes. but would they have achieved the level of Diana, in terms of stage presence and all, i don't think so.
    Diana ultimately ended up in the "something special" category. [[I actually think she always had something about her that made her special, which is why she stood out to Berry in the first place.) I don't think any other woman at Motown would've achieved her level of superstardom. The problem with holding that opinion is that we really don't have enough evidence to justify this for most of them. Take Gladys Knight. Now, while Gladys never received the hands on attention from Gordy that Diana did, no one can argue that Gladys was not only a seasoned performer but was a real star. Her star quality even increased after leaving Motown. I may not particularly care for her as a person today, but musically speaking, Gladys had the goods and she's proved it. Is she of Diana's caliber of superstardom? Nope and I think that's because Diana Ross is just an all around entertainer who always seemed to value the art of entertaining over anything else, while Gladys has always valued the singing aspect over anything else. Could Gordy have turned her into a "Diana Ross"? I doubt it, and I base that off of the TONS of Gladys Knight performances I've seen and heard throughout the entirety of her career. Who else at Motown do we have that kind of access to? What exactly is it about Claudette Robinson that makes you think she didn't have it to be on Diana's level? How many performances have you seen? I'm guessing not many, certainly not many that she get's the spotlight. I think this conversation is easier to have when you compare Diana to people who had her opportunities. At Motown it's an indisputable fact that no other woman at the label received the attention Diana Ross did, not just from Berry Gordy, but from the entire Motown machine.

    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    There's been a lot of talk in the books about the "motown myth" how motown took a bunch of crass and slovenly ghetto kids and transformed them like Eliza Doolitttle. that's false. the "diamond in the rough" is more accurate. they were poised, mannerly young adults that were given training and education on the art of theater and stage. IMO Diana was a higher grade diamond than the others in this sense. you're just working with someone that has this odd ability
    Some of that plays into people's perception of Black people from underprivileged backgrounds. Were the Supremes crass and slovenly? No. Were they rough around the edges? Uh, yeah. And I think Maxine Powell once said that Diana needed some extra work because she was a little rougher than some of the others. Now it's also important to remember that the Supremes, even as the Primettes, were luckier than most because from day one they had someone- Milton Jenkins- who apparently had an eye for things like staging, and wardrobe, and song selection. They were being trained to harmonize by the Primes. And when Milton left the picture, they were mentored by additional men in the business who brought something to the table. The Primettes managed to find work, legit work, when many other groups couldn't get in the door. And securing a record deal with Motown after approximately two years together was a rarity for most groups. So the Supremes entered the company already with more training than some of the others. Interesting to ponder Gordy's reaction had the Primettes formed when they initially did and soon after walked into Hitsville for that audition. What differences might have been present?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    There were indeed many talented ladies at Motown with excellent voices. I agree that none possessed the incredible charisma and unique sound that Diana had.
    Out of all the other Female singers at Motown, i think that given full backing from the company Tammi had the best chance fulfilling Berrys dream of creating a black female superstar. It’s true she had her emotional problems, but then so have a vast contingency of the worlds leading female stars from the past hundred years.
    I choose Tammi because of her beauty [[it helps) and the fact she had a very commercial, crossover sound. Listening to a live recording of her at the Copa she proves if nothing else she was extremely versatile. Whether she would had the desire and work ethic to attain such a position we can only speculate.
    I agree about Tammi. I suspect Brenda Holloway had it as well. And believe it or not, Wanda Rogers. I think they may have possessed those entertainer instincts that would have allowed them to possibly get near Diana's status. As a huge Flo Ballard fan, while I believe her to have had a great talent and definitely star quality, I don't think she had the entertainer instincts required for superstar status. Same with Mary. I think Lynda had it though. Would've been very interesting to see what kind of results money and time yielded for Lynda Laurence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I agree about Tammi. I suspect Brenda Holloway had it as well. And believe it or not, Wanda Rogers. I think they may have possessed those entertainer instincts that would have allowed them to possibly get near Diana's status. As a huge Flo Ballard fan, while I believe her to have had a great talent and definitely star quality, I don't think she had the entertainer instincts required for superstar status. Same with Mary. I think Lynda had it though. Would've been very interesting to see what kind of results money and time yielded for Lynda Laurence.
    The only female singer at Motown that i truly consider to have had that unique persona and crossover appeal which might possibly have matched Diana’s is Tammi.
    Brenda and Wanda are fine singers, but their voices do not separate them from the pack. Much the same way with Florence.
    If you listen to Tammi performing at the Roostertail Club she sounds charismatic and compelling. It’s interesting to hear her singing “Baby Love” as her voice is not altogether that different from Diana’s. I think she would have been a natural doing comedy skits as a guest star on tv shows. To add to that she was very easy on the eye.
    I really hope one day that a film documenting her short but eventful life reaches the big screen. All the ingredients are there.

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    Ran - of course Diana wasn't born with pristine elocution and stage command. but in her biographies and books, you read about how she was exuberant and and magnetic. even as a young girl and in the background, people's attention and eyes were still drawn to her. She had a natural ability to entertain, even if roughly. She fed off of the adulation of the audience. That's the natural talent i'm talking about and that's the "spark" that Berry and some of the others saw early on. like smokey and Mabel John. They recognized that this was different from the others and with work and dedication might evolve into a marvel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    The only female singer at Motown that i truly consider to have had that unique persona and crossover appeal which might possibly have matched Diana’s is Tammi.
    Brenda and Wanda are fine singers, but their voices do not separate them from the pack. Much the same way with Florence.
    If you listen to Tammi performing at the Roostertail Club she sounds charismatic and compelling. It’s interesting to hear her singing “Baby Love” as her voice is not altogether that different from Diana’s. I think she would have been a natural doing comedy skits as a guest star on tv shows. To add to that she was very easy on the eye.
    I really hope one day that a film documenting her short but eventful life reaches the big screen. All the ingredients are there.
    Yeah, I'm definitely going to have to vehemently disagree with you here. There was nobody who sounded like Wanda Rogers. Nobody. You know that voice when you hear it. While in the early days I don't particularly find her voice pleasant, under Smokey's direction, she really came into her own as a vocalist, and I find her voice oddly soothing as well as adaptable. It jumps out at you. One of the things I love about Diana's voice is how descriptive it is. She can really wrap her voice around the tone of the song, conveying exactly what the song intends. I feel the same way about Wanda. It would be interesting to hear how Wanda might have handled some of the MOR stuff. She also had a look and personality that caused the eye to be drawn to her.

    Brenda was a firecracker vocalist. To my ears, her voice was like Wanda's and Diana's, so animated, so full of life, hitting you in the place the song directs her. She had tremendous stage presence, moved beautifully. I find her captivating. She was gorgeous and her fashion sense was right up there with the Supremes, although she was more girl from the neighborhood while the Supremes were over the top glam, or at least would eventually become over the top glam.

    I have to wonder how differently their careers would have worked out had Motown pushed either of them. In reality Wanda not getting the full push makes sense because, like Tammi, her off stage life was a mess. Not sure why Brenda didn't have someone at Motown eating, sleeping, and dreaming all things Brenda Holloway. IMO if there were only one female singer at Motown that I would mark as a "Should Have Been", it's Brenda Holloway. I'm a bit more iffy on Wanda, but I do think Brenda could've been a superstar if she were given the same attention as Diana.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Ran - of course Diana wasn't born with pristine elocution and stage command. but in her biographies and books, you read about how she was exuberant and and magnetic. even as a young girl and in the background, people's attention and eyes were still drawn to her. She had a natural ability to entertain, even if roughly. She fed off of the adulation of the audience. That's the natural talent i'm talking about and that's the "spark" that Berry and some of the others saw early on. like smokey and Mabel John. They recognized that this was different from the others and with work and dedication might evolve into a marvel
    I agree with all of this, but to be fair, having been among young people my whole life- especially when I was one- exuberant, magnetic kids aren't rare. And Diana Ross has to unquestionably be the woman at Motown whose life is most documented, so she's the one we know the most about. She's the one we get all the stories on. The fact that Berry, and others at Motown, zeroed in on her doesn't negate the argument that with time and attention, some other woman at the company couldn't have been molded into a force. I doubt Aretha Franklin would have gotten that kind of attention at Motown, and her superstar power eventually eclipsed that of Diana. So it's not like Motown was an authority and keeper of who could and could not be a female star. Everything said about Diana is 100 percent true, regarding what set her apart from most of her peers, male and female. But those early ingredients mean nothing if Diana wasn't willing to throw herself into her work with 1000 percent effort. I think that's what truly set her aside. That kind of work ethic is the rarity in someone so young. Charisma is not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Yeah, I'm definitely going to have to vehemently disagree with you here. There was nobody who sounded like Wanda Rogers. Nobody. You know that voice when you hear it. While in the early days I don't particularly find her voice pleasant, under Smokey's direction, she really came into her own as a vocalist, and I find her voice oddly soothing as well as adaptable. It jumps out at you. One of the things I love about Diana's voice is how descriptive it is. She can really wrap her voice around the tone of the song, conveying exactly what the song intends. I feel the same way about Wanda. It would be interesting to hear how Wanda might have handled some of the MOR stuff. She also had a look and personality that caused the eye to be drawn to her.

    Brenda was a firecracker vocalist. To my ears, her voice was like Wanda's and Diana's, so animated, so full of life, hitting you in the place the song directs her. She had tremendous stage presence, moved beautifully. I find her captivating. She was gorgeous and her fashion sense was right up there with the Supremes, although she was more girl from the neighborhood while the Supremes were over the top glam, or at least would eventually become over the top glam.

    I have to wonder how differently their careers would have worked out had Motown pushed either of them. In reality Wanda not getting the full push makes sense because, like Tammi, her off stage life was a mess. Not sure why Brenda didn't have someone at Motown eating, sleeping, and dreaming all things Brenda Holloway. IMO if there were only one female singer at Motown that I would mark as a "Should Have Been", it's Brenda Holloway. I'm a bit more iffy on Wanda, but I do think Brenda could've been a superstar if she were given the same attention as Diana.
    i'm not too familiar with Brenda's voice so i'll skip that one. i have her Greatest Hits & Rare Classics cd from the 90s. and frankly i wasn't overly wowed.

    Wanda is one that's hit or miss for me. sort of like Mary Wilson, Wanda has a smokiness to her vocal tones. when used correctly, it's wonderful. but get her too much up into her head voice and i don't care for it. I think she had a bit more pop voice appeal than Mary Wilson but there might have been other genres like Jazz that fit her well

    one that you missed that i think was a glorious voice is Gladys Horton. I bought the two Marvelettes box sets and really have grown to love Gladys. there's such a wonderful honesty in her tone and yet enough vocal trills and embellishments to make it pop and interesting. she's not as "soulful" as Gladys Knight. But she could definitely make wonderful tunes and she did a great job of interpreting the lyrics. Maybe her "folksiness" was just too much for Gordy and she wanted to simply play the black theaters like Apollo and Howard. always found it interesting that Gordy never focused on her. I think she's a much more compelling vocalist than Mary Wells

    which brings me to Miss Mary Wells. Of course i'd heard My Guy a zillion times and it's fine. When i bought the L&F set i was truly impressed with her MOR material. although she has a limited range, most of these MOR songs don't require a huge voice or extensive range. I adore her version of Second Time Around. just stunning. and the accompanying tracks that were to be used for her "concept" album are equally gorgeous

    listen to Secret Love and at 1:57. Mary is perfectly blended into the Andantes to give her sound so much richness. just perfect job by the producers

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Yeah, I'm definitely going to have to vehemently disagree with you here. There was nobody who sounded like Wanda Rogers. Nobody. You know that voice when you hear it. While in the early days I don't particularly find her voice pleasant, under Smokey's direction, she really came into her own as a vocalist, and I find her voice oddly soothing as well as adaptable. It jumps out at you. One of the things I love about Diana's voice is how descriptive it is. She can really wrap her voice around the tone of the song, conveying exactly what the song intends. I feel the same way about Wanda. It would be interesting to hear how Wanda might have handled some of the MOR stuff. She also had a look and personality that caused the eye to be drawn to her.

    Brenda was a firecracker vocalist. To my ears, her voice was like Wanda's and Diana's, so animated, so full of life, hitting you in the place the song directs her. She had tremendous stage presence, moved beautifully. I find her captivating. She was gorgeous and her fashion sense was right up there with the Supremes, although she was more girl from the neighborhood while the Supremes were over the top glam, or at least would eventually become over the top glam.

    I have to wonder how differently their careers would have worked out had Motown pushed either of them. In reality Wanda not getting the full push makes sense because, like Tammi, her off stage life was a mess. Not sure why Brenda didn't have someone at Motown eating, sleeping, and dreaming all things Brenda Holloway. IMO if there were only one female singer at Motown that I would mark as a "Should Have Been", it's Brenda Holloway. I'm a bit more iffy on Wanda, but I do think Brenda could've been a superstar if she were given the same attention as Diana.
    i disagree. When we are talking potential superstar, their voices just don’t stand out quite enough for me. At the end of the day it’s all speculative. Diana is indeed a rare breed.

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    Loved Tammi but I think her career with Marvin and solo would have soared in that direction. Replacing Diana is interesting but not a good fit.

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    For me there was space for both Diana and Tammi at Motown. Tammi's personal style could have developed into a more "in your face" artist - perhaps veering towards something akin to being Motown's Tina Turner.

    However, I feel that with the massive success of her pairing with Marvin there would have been continued demand for some duet activity, even if it was a song or two on each other's albums. That kind of magic between two artists rarely happens and I feel that it would have become an enduring music industry "standard". I am convinced that had Tammi lived there would still be a demand for their duets to this day!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i'm not too familiar with Brenda's voice so i'll skip that one. i have her Greatest Hits & Rare Classics cd from the 90s. and frankly i wasn't overly wowed.

    Wanda is one that's hit or miss for me. sort of like Mary Wilson, Wanda has a smokiness to her vocal tones. when used correctly, it's wonderful. but get her too much up into her head voice and i don't care for it. I think she had a bit more pop voice appeal than Mary Wilson but there might have been other genres like Jazz that fit her well

    one that you missed that i think was a glorious voice is Gladys Horton. I bought the two Marvelettes box sets and really have grown to love Gladys. there's such a wonderful honesty in her tone and yet enough vocal trills and embellishments to make it pop and interesting. she's not as "soulful" as Gladys Knight. But she could definitely make wonderful tunes and she did a great job of interpreting the lyrics. Maybe her "folksiness" was just too much for Gordy and she wanted to simply play the black theaters like Apollo and Howard. always found it interesting that Gordy never focused on her. I think she's a much more compelling vocalist than Mary Wells

    which brings me to Miss Mary Wells. Of course i'd heard My Guy a zillion times and it's fine. When i bought the L&F set i was truly impressed with her MOR material. although she has a limited range, most of these MOR songs don't require a huge voice or extensive range. I adore her version of Second Time Around. just stunning. and the accompanying tracks that were to be used for her "concept" album are equally gorgeous

    listen to Secret Love and at 1:57. Mary is perfectly blended into the Andantes to give her sound so much richness. just perfect job by the producers
    There were a lot of ladies at the company who were uber talented. Vocally Gladys Horton was great, but I don't know if she had the star spark. The few Marvelettes performances I have seen, Wanda is the one who seems to have it. But ya never know.

    Mary Wells had a really nice voice. Smokey really brought out the beauty of her voice. The company line is that she was Gordy's first choice for going above and beyond his record label owner peers, so if it is indeed true, he saw something there to work with. Her MOR material is fantastic. I play them often.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    i disagree. When we are talking potential superstar, their voices just don’t stand out quite enough for me. At the end of the day it’s all speculative. Diana is indeed a rare breed.
    Hey, variety is the spice of life, right? Believe it or not there are still people who question the wisdom of pushing Diana Ross, legendary status and all. While one can definitely point out that at this point in time it's a verifiable fact that pushing Diana Ross paid off probably beyond anyone's wildest dreams, she still isn't everyone's cup of tea. But as I said in another thread sometime back, there is only one Diana Ross. And I love her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rovereab View Post
    For me there was space for both Diana and Tammi at Motown. Tammi's personal style could have developed into a more "in your face" artist - perhaps veering towards something akin to being Motown's Tina Turner.
    I think there was space for more than just Diana and Tammi. I think Sup and Ollie would best be able to clarify their own points, but I wonder if the point I was trying to make just didn't land the way I hoped it would. For the record nobody at Motown was going to be Diana Ross. She was one of a kind. It's not like Motown could roll Diana Ross' off an assembly line. She was it. In the totality of superstars, Diana Ross is one of many. They all have their own thing, their own lane, their own groove and there's room for them all. I would never expect Tammi, Wanda or Brenda to be Diana Ross, nor would I expect her to be them. But I think they all had certain characteristics that would have made pushing them far worthwhile. If the conversation is "Who Could Be Diana Ross", I would have to back out of such a discussion because the answer is "Nobody". If the conversation is "Were There Any Other Woman At Motown With the Tangibles To Be A Superstar", then that's a conversation right up my alley, as my answer would be "Yes".

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    Quote Originally Posted by rovereab View Post

    However, I feel that with the massive success of her pairing with Marvin there would have been continued demand for some duet activity, even if it was a song or two on each other's albums. That kind of magic between two artists rarely happens and I feel that it would have become an enduring music industry "standard". I am convinced that had Tammi lived there would still be a demand for their duets to this day!
    I think it's interesting to ponder how a healthy Tammi would have affected Marvin's future career. I wonder if there would have been a point where Motown saw how affective they were as a duo and pretty much kept them that way. Maybe Marvin would do a solo thing here and there, but that they would be a permanent fixture, like Peaches and Herb. Tammi's solo career was absent any hits aside from what she did with Marvin. Their chemistry was off the charts. I hate to think of a world where What's Going On and Diana & Marvin is not a reality, so I won't. But can you imagine what Let's Get It On or I Want You might have been like as Marvin and Tammi duets? Good grief, it would've been too much! Steaming hot!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I think there was space for more than just Diana and Tammi. I think Sup and Ollie would best be able to clarify their own points, but I wonder if the point I was trying to make just didn't land the way I hoped it would. For the record nobody at Motown was going to be Diana Ross. She was one of a kind. It's not like Motown could roll Diana Ross' off an assembly line. She was it. In the totality of superstars, Diana Ross is one of many. They all have their own thing, their own lane, their own groove and there's room for them all. I would never expect Tammi, Wanda or Brenda to be Diana Ross, nor would I expect her to be them. But I think they all had certain characteristics that would have made pushing them far worthwhile. If the conversation is "Who Could Be Diana Ross", I would have to back out of such a discussion because the answer is "Nobody". If the conversation is "Were There Any Other Woman At Motown With the Tangibles To Be A Superstar", then that's a conversation right up my alley, as my answer would be "Yes".
    you do have a valid point. many of the other women could have very well been superstars in their own right. with Martha, i think she could have found a great niche and developed into a black rocker. i dont' want to use "r&b" because that tends to have a specific sound and category. Martha "rocked" while at motown. Heatwave, Dancing, Nowhere, ready for love. she really sort of created a new genre of black artists doing a more traditionally rock sound and approach. and just listen to her superb MCA album. Tina Turner later got into this sound some. and Mary wilson's Gus Dungeon tracks hint at that approach too. but Martha had a soprano voice and so a totally different sound. if she hadn't had her personal and drug problems, i think in the 70s she could have fronted a integrated rock back ground. men and women, black and white. have given some incredible rock records.

    but her demons, bad luck and other fates got in the way

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    you do have a valid point. many of the other women could have very well been superstars in their own right. with Martha, i think she could have found a great niche and developed into a black rocker. i dont' want to use "r&b" because that tends to have a specific sound and category. Martha "rocked" while at motown. Heatwave, Dancing, Nowhere, ready for love. she really sort of created a new genre of black artists doing a more traditionally rock sound and approach. and just listen to her superb MCA album. Tina Turner later got into this sound some. and Mary wilson's Gus Dungeon tracks hint at that approach too. but Martha had a soprano voice and so a totally different sound. if she hadn't had her personal and drug problems, i think in the 70s she could have fronted a integrated rock back ground. men and women, black and white. have given some incredible rock records.

    but her demons, bad luck and other fates got in the way
    Excellent point about Martha. I find her 60s performances mostly boring. Sometimes her facial expressions are...well, expressionless. Audio wise she sounds like a star, but the visual...nah. But your point about Martha and rock reminds me of that performance from the 70s, I think Don Kirshna[[?). She was very good. She looks like a star, very 70s hip. And she does come across very at home in this sort of rock/r&b/slight country mix. [[Which is exactly how I would describe her first solo album.) So you have a point about her. I'll have to retract my earlier comment about her star quality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I think it's interesting to ponder how a healthy Tammi would have affected Marvin's future career. I wonder if there would have been a point where Motown saw how affective they were as a duo and pretty much kept them that way. Maybe Marvin would do a solo thing here and there, but that they would be a permanent fixture, like Peaches and Herb. Tammi's solo career was absent any hits aside from what she did with Marvin. Their chemistry was off the charts. I hate to think of a world where What's Going On and Diana & Marvin is not a reality, so I won't. But can you imagine what Let's Get It On or I Want You might have been like as Marvin and Tammi duets? Good grief, it would've been too much! Steaming hot!
    The general hypothesis seems to be Tammi would have continued the duets with Marvin, and/or continued with a certain amount of solo work. I think she was capable of achieving so much more.
    I do wonder what Motown might have done if “All I Do” had been released as a single and been a huge thumping hit. The song certainly has that potential with Tammi’s vocal being excitingly vibrant. Would Motown have done what other female singers at the company have complained about and continue to focus all their attention on Ross, or would they have really got behind her. They were both striking looking women with bubbly personalities and nasal toned voices.
    Diana of course is brilliant and more then deserving of her success, but was there room at Motown for another female singer who might, if only nearly matched that popularity?.

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    I do like Diana Ross' solo "You're All I Need to Get By". Nick Ashford seems to be the perfect duet partner for Diana Ross. He and Valerie explored the many ranges of Diana Ross' voice.
    Nick was to Diana as Marvin was to Tammi, musical heaven.
    Tammi definitely has a beautiful solo voice too. She would have had a great solo career.Sadly, her illness came.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Excellent point about Martha. I find her 60s performances mostly boring. Sometimes her facial expressions are...well, expressionless. Audio wise she sounds like a star, but the visual...nah. But your point about Martha and rock reminds me of that performance from the 70s, I think Don Kirshna[[?). She was very good. She looks like a star, very 70s hip. And she does come across very at home in this sort of rock/r&b/slight country mix. [[Which is exactly how I would describe her first solo album.) So you have a point about her. I'll have to retract my earlier comment about her star quality.
    i agree that her face was mostly expressionless during her performances. at least on TV. maybe she was focusing on the cameras and all. not sure. i never saw her live on stage so don't know how she did there.

    is the 70s performance you mentioned the one where she does a couple songs from her MCA album live in front of a band and she's wearing long braids? this is better than some performances, some moments she lights up. but not magical. one of her background singers is far more alive lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I do wonder what Motown might have done if “All I Do” had been released as a single and been a huge thumping hit. The song certainly has that potential with Tammi’s vocal being excitingly vibrant. Would Motown have done what other female singers at the company have complained about and continue to focus all their attention on Ross, or would they have really got behind her.
    Nope. Motown- Berry- had tunnel vision. He never could see the forest for the trees. He put all his eggs in the Ross basket and hoped they would hatch. He wasn't interested in focusing that kind of attention on anyone else. He was sleeping with Chris Clark, and even she didn't get the Ross push. In Berry's defense [[believe it or not), Motown, even as it was ruling the charts, was still a small, independent company. This wasn't Capitol or Columbia, where there might be a competent team assigned to a particular artist. Various artists at the company might have had one person with clout in their corner, but one person wasn't going to cut it. In truth, not even Berry Gordy alone could turn the Supremes into THE SUPREMES, and by extension Diana Ross. There were a whole slew of people behind them. There were so many diamonds in the rough at Motown that there was just no possible way that all who deserved it would be able to get the attention. Berry focused on the Supremes, and to a lesser extent, the Tempts, the Tops, Gladys and the Pips, Marvin, Stevie, and to an even lesser extent, Martha and the Vandellas. I think he may have thought he had his hands full. At this point we're lucky Tammi was paired up with Marvin. Her singles never went anywhere and one has to wonder how much longer she would've remained at the label. It never seemed like they ever made her a priority unless she was with Marvin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i agree that her face was mostly expressionless during her performances. at least on TV. maybe she was focusing on the cameras and all. not sure. i never saw her live on stage so don't know how she did there.

    is the 70s performance you mentioned the one where she does a couple songs from her MCA album live in front of a band and she's wearing long braids? this is better than some performances, some moments she lights up. but not magical. one of her background singers is far more alive lol
    Yeah, along with a Motown medley. Her demeanor fit what she was doing, IMO. I might compare her to a Linda Ronstandt and the way those types of ladies were presenting themselves at the time. For the style of music Martha was doing, she played the part. I don't think the audiences wanted her to be overly animated. They didn't seem to expect that from those other types. But in the 60s Martha wasn't doing that type of music. She just seemed to lack all of the charisma the Supremes, the Marvelettes, Brenda Holloway, Tammi Terrell, and Gladys Knight had at the same time.

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    Carolyn Crawford and the Velvelettes had the goods!....I think if Mary Wells remained, she would have been promoted more in the RnB field, while BG concentrated on Pop with DR.....Martha Reeves 60's records wouldn't have sounded as good with anyone else, same with the Marvelettes and the Supremes, Tops and Tempts...I think the pairing of producers/ performers was masterful and best as chosen and released by the company till around '68 when HDH departed and left a huge void.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gman View Post
    Carolyn Crawford and the Velvelettes had the goods!....I think if Mary Wells remained, she would have been promoted more in the RnB field, while BG concentrated on Pop with DR.....Martha Reeves 60's records wouldn't have sounded as good with anyone else, same with the Marvelettes and the Supremes, Tops and Tempts...I think the pairing of producers/ performers was masterful and best as chosen and released by the company till around '68 when HDH departed and left a huge void.
    I think both Carolyn and the the Velvelettes are wonderful, but still ascertain that Tammi was the only other female at Motown who ticked all the boxes in possessing literally all the qualities that separates a superstar from the pack. Quite simply she stood out.
    I’m not talking good singers here, but someone with crossover appeal and the ability to evolve into an all round entertainer that would appeal to the masses.
    As I’ve mentioned before, one only has to listen to her performing at the Roostertail to hear evidence of this. Her bubbly and girlish persona is very Diana like with a voice not totally dissimilar. She also appears very comfortable performing any genre of music, from Motown to show tunes.

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    I can't imagine someone as sassy and brassy as Tammi being a Supreme or a group member in general. Marvin was an exception.

    What sucks is that I've heard all of Tammi's stuff solo and with Marvin and she was probably one of the most soulful singers I ever heard. Motown definitely could've tried to flesh her out as a funk/soul singer but I think the move to Los Angeles from Detroit would've put a damper on that progress...

    Sadly I couldn't see a healthy Tammi prospering as a soloist but she may have wanted to quit the business at some point if she had found that doctor. It's amazing she managed to become successful all while battling her illness. Her story is truly fascinating.
    Last edited by midnightman; 07-19-2020 at 04:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post

    Sadly I couldn't see a healthy Tammi prospering as a soloist but she may have wanted to quit the business at some point if she had found that doctor. It's amazing she managed to become successful all while battling her illness. Her story is truly fascinating.
    I so disagree. She was so very young when she died that she had not even fully matured as a vocalist. In a scenario where she is given full company backing, she could easily have carved out an enduring career. I see a 1968 television special to solidify her name with the general public. Special guest stars being Marvin Gaye and the Tempts. I could also see her doing something with Smokey.
    She could be a bit of a wild child, but I prefer to think of her as a free spirit. I feel sure she would have calmed down as she got older. Everyone who knew her seems to agree that performing was her main inspiration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gman View Post
    Carolyn Crawford and the Velvelettes had the goods!....I think if Mary Wells remained, she would have been promoted more in the RnB field, while BG concentrated on Pop with DR.....Martha Reeves 60's records wouldn't have sounded as good with anyone else, same with the Marvelettes and the Supremes, Tops and Tempts...I think the pairing of producers/ performers was masterful and best as chosen and released by the company till around '68 when HDH departed and left a huge void.
    I've never seen a Carolyn Crawford performance, so I can't speak to her star potential. Vocally she has an appealing voice. The Velvelettes recorded some great cuts at Motown, but personally I've always found Cal's voice mostly devoid of any personality, and thus can't imagine that it had the ability to reach star status.

    Apparently Gordy's intensions was for Mary Wells to get the pop push, so had she stayed I don't think he would have suddenly switched the plan. Mary was already a proven crossover artist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I think both Carolyn and the the Velvelettes are wonderful, but still ascertain that Tammi was the only other female at Motown who ticked all the boxes in possessing literally all the qualities that separates a superstar from the pack. Quite simply she stood out.
    I’m not talking good singers here, but someone with crossover appeal and the ability to evolve into an all round entertainer that would appeal to the masses.
    As I’ve mentioned before, one only has to listen to her performing at the Roostertail to hear evidence of this. Her bubbly and girlish persona is very Diana like with a voice not totally dissimilar. She also appears very comfortable performing any genre of music, from Motown to show tunes.
    I don't think anyone is arguing against Tammi. We just haven't limited the potential of some of the other ladies who tick those boxes in our opinions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    I can't imagine someone as sassy and brassy as Tammi being a Supreme or a group member in general. Marvin was an exception.

    What sucks is that I've heard all of Tammi's stuff solo and with Marvin and she was probably one of the most soulful singers I ever heard. Motown definitely could've tried to flesh her out as a funk/soul singer but I think the move to Los Angeles from Detroit would've put a damper on that progress...

    Sadly I couldn't see a healthy Tammi prospering as a soloist but she may have wanted to quit the business at some point if she had found that doctor. It's amazing she managed to become successful all while battling her illness. Her story is truly fascinating.
    I think Tammi would've continued with singing. But of course there's always the chance that disillusionment sets in when the career doesn't work out the way one wants it to. It happened to a number of the other Motown ladies. But I don't think there's any evidence that suggests outright that this would have happened to Tammi. She appears to have loved what she did.

    I agree about her being soulful. That lady could flat out sing. So much emotion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I don't think anyone is arguing against Tammi. We just haven't limited the potential of some of the other ladies who tick those boxes in our opinions.
    Thats more then fair enough. As you have mentioned, we all find magic in different places making the world a far more interesting place.

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