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  1. #51
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    Here's Holly Maxwell:

  2. #52
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    Here's an unfinished and unissued demo by producer/songwriter Wilfrid "Flash" McKinley, who worked for Bob Catron's Bombay Records, as well as for Chess:

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by robb_k View Post
    Attachment 17630
    here one from major lance:
    good one robb,this little gem is rarely mentioned and although it didn't hit big it is still a very cool song from the early days in major's career.

  4. #54
    Great choices, Robb!

  5. #55
    Robb, thanks for taking this thread over and setting things right about the Chicago Sound. I'm in Chi-Town and agree with you 1000%. Oh, and thanks for those great links. I'm having a ball with them.

  6. #56
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    I love Barbara Green's voice so much, I just had to post a 2nd:

  7. #57
    Actually true on Dick Jacobs...my oversight and a brief brain drainage...
    That aside and as you know...Jackie's most identifiable hit today, Higher and Higher used Detroit musicians summoned to Chicago as they tried to get the DETROIT SOUND out of a Chicago production...When Motown left Detroit...so did the "Detroit Sound" as the Los Angeles product (even earlier Motown tracks cut in L.A. have a different feel and sound from the work product created in Studio A) as the musicians were as responsible for creating the "Detroit Sound" as was any other factor ...I do stand by my remarks as outside of perhaps Chicago, what is being referred to here as the "Chicago Sound", is hardly recognized as a single entity of similarities in the same vein as the "Miami Sound" with it's heavy Latin influence, the Memphis Sound with it's harsh "southern edge", the Philly Sound, New York-New Jersey street corner doo wop...even the Dick Griffey-Don Cornelius Sound of L.A. (which L.A. Motown sounded more like than even similarities between L.A. Motown and Detroit Motown) and has, in my opinion, more recognizable musical similarities between the various groups... and in the general public, Chicago "soul" artists are often misidentified as "Motown" as the general public refers to those songs and artists...I fail to see the type of commonly recognized patterns that the harmonies (Andantes, Originals) tracks (Funk Brothers), and production that Motown as a recognizable trademark and was emulated at virtually all the smaller studios in Detroit during the 60's... With a Detroit Motown project you immediately recognized the three guitars and those razor sharp backbeats, Jamerson's syncopated bass, The familiar drum patterns, prominent baritone sax, background harmonies...and even the Fairchild limiter played a significant role in the development of the "Motown Sound"...There was not as much new experimentation going on as there was everyone trying to emulate Motown... Other than recognizing the fact that several popular artists emerged from Chicago, I still fail to see a consistent musical thread that ties them together, other than the fact that many of the artists fit into the same overall genre...Motown is it's own genre...Stax-Atlantic artists even have a recognizable sub-genre sound...Nothing similar in Chicago...While I enjoy many of the artists and material...just not hearing the common auditory theme...
    Last edited by StuBass1; 06-15-2020 at 02:15 PM.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by StuBass1 View Post
    Actually true on Dick Jacobs...my oversight... That aside and as you know...Jackie's most identifiable hit today, Higher and Higher used Detroit musicians summoned to Chicago...I do stand by my remarks as outside of perhaps Chicago, what is being referred to here as the Chicago sound, is hardly recognized in the same vein as the "Miami Sound" with it's heavy Latin influence, the Memphis Sound with it's harsh "southern edge", the Philly Sound, New York-New Jersey street corner doo wop...even the Dick Griffey-Don Cornelius Sound of L.A. has, in my opinion, more recognizable musical similarities between the various groups... and in the general public, Chicago "soul" artists are often misidentified as "Motown" as the general public refers to those songs and artists...I fail to see the type of commonly recognized patterns that the harmonies (Andantes, Originals) tracks (Funk Brothers), and production that Motown as a recognizable trademark and was emulated at virtually all the smaller studios in Detroit during the 60's... There was not as much new experimentation going on as there was everyone trying to emulate Motown... Other than recognizing the fact that several popular artists emerged from Chicago, I still fail to see a consistent musical thread that ties them together, other than the fact that many of the artists fit into the same overall genre...Motown is it's own genre...Stax-Atlantic even has a recognizable sub-genre...Nothing similar in Chicago...
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    I disagree. I can listen to a song and 99% of the time, I can tell whether or not it was recorded in Chicago, or written by Chicago songwriters, or arranged by a Chicago arranger, as opposed to being Soul from New York, or L.A. or New Orleans, or Philadelphia, or Detroit, or Memphis - ALL of which had distinctive sounds to me. Maybe it's recognising the playing of the specific session players, and those in their city who were influenced by the best of them, or recognising the songwriting of the most prolific writers, and the styles of those lesser writers who were influenced by the best, and some is hearing the familiar acoustics of the most-used studios, like Universal, Ter-Mar, Columbia, in Chicago, same as "The Snakepit", Golden World, Correc-Tone, United Sound, in Detroit, and Bell Sound and the others in New York, and the most used in L.A.? All those elements add up to making a distinct sound for those several specific cities, whereas they didn't for Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Columbus, Washington, Baltimore, Buffalo, St. Louis, Kansas City, because there just wasn't enough recording done in those (many of the artists there went to relatively nearby larger cities to record). And Nashville, for some reason, didn't develop its own, distinctive Soul sound, despite having a fair amount recorded there (or, at least I haven't been able to discern one or hear of one existing). Texas had a mildly distinctive sound. And the general "West" , Denver, Seattle, Minnesota, Phoenix had a mildly similar and slightly distinctive "more poppish" Soul sound.

    Unfortunately I can't put the musical technicality specifics into words. But I think there are many, many others, including Bob Pruter, and many others we all know that hear these same features in combination in these songs, and would agree with me that there IS a distinctive "Chicago Sound of Soul Music".

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by robb_k View Post
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    I love Barbara Green's voice so much, I just had to post a 2nd:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKgUqXXyuP8
    That's a good one . R Parker being Ray Parker I presume?

    Similar in flavor to :


  10. #60
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    Here's The Vontastics:

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    That's a good one . R Parker being Ray Parker I presume?

    Similar in flavor to :

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    Yes, and there's a good reason for that. Ollie McLaughlin, despite being a Michigander, and operating mainly out of Detroit, often sent his artists to Chicago to record. "Hello Stranger" was recorded at Universal Studio in Chicago, and arranged by prolific Chicago arranger, Riley Hampton, and the super group harmony background was provided by Chicago's best, The Dells. The Barbara Green cuts also had The Dells on background vocals.

    "R. Parker" is Chicago producer/arranger/songwriter, Richard Parker, who, like Andre Williams, Bridges/Knight & Eaton, and others, bounced between Chicago and Detroit (his having worked for Ed Wingate's Golden World/Ric Tic Records).

    I contend that "Hello Stranger" sounds more like a "Chicago record" than a Detroit one. But, it's than hybrid area between Chicago and Detroit that contains Mary Wells' cha cha beat mis-tempo songs, and many of Jackie Wilson's cuts made in Chicago, and Jo Armstead's Giant and partnerships with Ric Williams' Zodiac and Aquarius productions, and Mike Hanks and Mike Terry's productions for Chicago labels, and Fontella Bass' "Rescue Me" and its clones, that often sound half way between the sounds of those 2 cities.
    Last edited by robb_k; 06-15-2020 at 02:31 PM.

  12. #62
    Thanks for the info about the two Barbara records especially these details of HELLO STRANGER.
    I wish there were some way to continuous play these links one after the other on my phone, I'd just let them play!!

    This is a good one too
    Quote Originally Posted by robb_k View Post
    Attachment 17639
    Here's Joyce Kennedy:
    Is that a bass sax that 's heard throughout ?
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 06-15-2020 at 03:27 PM.

  13. #63
    ...... it therefore reminds me of this:



    (but I'm not expecting any linkages to the two in this case!)

  14. #64
    Chicago black music went through a number of phases as it evolved. Robb- k has given a masterclass in the phase of Chicago featuring for example the sounds of Veejay, Constellation, and ABC Paramount. I can't add anything to his superb summation of that period.

    Curtis Mayfield and Eddie Thomas's Curtom label had a massive impact and promoted talent such as The Impressions, Natural Four, Leroy Hutson, Linda Clifford, The Staples Singers and of course Curtis himself. So Curtom definitely contributed a great deal to giving Chicago prominence as a major force in black music.

    However, when I think of the definitive Chicago Sound, I always think of Carl Davis and his work, initially with Okeh, then Brunswick in Chicago, along with Dakar, Bashie and Chi-Sound. Tyrone Davis and Walter Jackson were Carl's favourite artists and he was immensely and justifiably proud of their work. As important to him in creating what he termed The Chicago Sound were the arrangers, producers and musicians. Tom Washington, Willie Henderson, Johnny Pate, Riley Hampton, Sonny Sanders and James Mack were especially important in the realisation of Carl Davis's vision of what constituted the Chicago Sound.

    Carl himself stated in his autobiography, 'The Man Behind The Music', "As a result of the collaboration between the three of us (myself, Johnny Pate and Curtis Mayfield), we created a very hip sound. That unique blend of the horns and rhythm section, Curtis Mayfield's writing, my producing, and Johnny's arrangements, became known as what was later called the "Chicago Sound". Johnny was able to put down the kind of arrangements that no one else was doing. That's what made us better. That's what made the Chicago Sound'.

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEW-UK View Post
    Chicago black music went through a number of phases as it evolved. Robb- k has given a masterclass in the phase of Chicago featuring for example the sounds of Veejay, Constellation, and ABC Paramount. I can't add anything to his superb summation of that period.

    Curtis Mayfield and Eddie Thomas's Curtom label had a massive impact and promoted talent such as The Impressions, Natural Four, Leroy Hutson, Linda Clifford, The Staples Singers and of course Curtis himself. So Curtom definitely contributed a great deal to giving Chicago prominence as a major force in black music.

    However, when I think of the definitive Chicago Sound, I always think of Carl Davis and his work, initially with Okeh, then Brunswick in Chicago, along with Dakar, Bashie and Chi-Sound. Tyrone Davis and Walter Jackson were Carl's favourite artists and he was immensely and justifiably proud of their work. As important to him in creating what he termed The Chicago Sound were the arrangers, producers and musicians. Tom Washington, Willie Henderson, Johnny Pate, Riley Hampton, Sonny Sanders and James Mack were especially important in the realisation of Carl Davis's vision of what constituted the Chicago Sound.

    Carl himself stated in his autobiography, 'The Man Behind The Music', "As a result of the collaboration between the three of us (myself, Johnny Pate and Curtis Mayfield), we created a very hip sound. That unique blend of the horns and rhythm section, Curtis Mayfield's writing, my producing, and Johnny's arrangements, became known as what was later called the "Chicago Sound". Johnny was able to put down the kind of arrangements that no one else was doing. That's what made us better. That's what made the Chicago Sound'.
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    Thanks for adding this, Mike. I am now in the process of adding some slightly later Chicago Sounds, several from Carl Davis, and some Chess sounds from Billy Davis' crew, including Flash McKinley and Carl Smith, and a few from the late '60s and beginning of the '70s.

  16. #66
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    Stu, your point is well taken, at least related to The Artistics, who, from the beginning had a Detroit tinge to their material and instrumentation, even singing songs by Sonny Sanders, Barrett Strong, and Staunton and Walker. Even when Carl Davis took them over to Brunswick, they still sang mainly fast songs with a similar beat to that of Motown, and other similar features. But, their big hit had a pure Chicago Sound:

  17. #67
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    Here's Shirley Wahls, who was mainly a Gospel singer:

  18. #68
    Carl again:

    ”We decided collectively to try to do something different than other labels, using prominent trombones and trumpets to make the Chicago Sound distinguishable so you could recognise it. Motown had their own sound. Stax had their own sound. Los Angeles, New York and Philadelphia all had their own sounds. We purposed not to be like any of them, so we assembled a house band for any Okeh productions, who captured and mastered our distinctive sound. My usual trombonists were Morris Ellis and John Avant, and the trumpeters were Maury Watson and Paul Serrano. I primarily used John Young and Floyd Morris, jazz trained piano players. We always hired Louis Satterfield on bass, and either Al Duncan or Maurice White on drums. Phil Upchurch, Gerald Sims and Kermit Chandler were amping my frequent guitar players and Bobby Christian was my main percussionist. He could play vibes, castanets, even some guitar. One of my signature arrangements was that I always like my records to end on the title of the song. In most cases, the vamp is pretty much the chorus anyway, so we would end the songs there and then fade it out.”.

    So Carl clearly set out to create a definitive, distinguishable Chicago Sound, and in his opinion succeeded in doing so. He had a formula for the construction of compositions, a house band, and a posse of arrangers who collectively created The Chicago Sound.
    When he created the Bashie label, it’s tag line boldly stated on each record was “The Sound Of Chicago “. Likewise his other label was concisely named “CHI-SOUND”.

    Bruce Swedien, the renowned Grammy award winning audio engineer and producer actually built a studio for Carl Davis in 1970 on South Michigan Avenue, Chicago. “I worked daily with Carl Davis. I got to record artists such as Jackie Wilson, Otis Leavill, Major Lance and Billy Butler. Our recorded sound was full of the uptown sophistication that epitomised Chicago’s 60’s soul. Every day at Brunswick Studios, I recorded the Chicago soul sound - black American music of its era, at its absolute peak”

    So in conclusion, whilst there were different types of Chicago soul along the way, I would submit that the productions overseen by Carl Davis, using the house band and family of arrangers he hired, the format of the compositions, the studios, the engineering talent, and the artists he coached and mentored, created the definitive and distinctive Chicago Sound, unique to Chicago and readily identifiable.
    Last edited by MIKEW-UK; 06-15-2020 at 07:52 PM.

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEW-UK View Post
    Carl again:

    ”We decided collectively to try to do something different than other labels, using prominent trombones and trumpets to make the Chicago Sound distinguishable so you could recognise it. Motown had their own sound. Stax had their own sound. Los Angeles, New York and Philadelphia all had their own sounds. We purposed not to be like any of them, so we assembled a house band for any Okeh productions, who captured and mastered our distinctive sound. My usual trombonists were Morris Ellis and John Avant, and the trumpeters were Maury Watson and Paul Serrano. I primarily used John Young and Floyd Morris, jazz trained piano players. We always hired Louis Satterfield on bass, and either Al Duncan or Maurice White on drums. Phil Upchurch, Gerald Sims and Kermit Chandler were amping my frequent guitar players and Bobby Christian was my main percussionist. He could play vibes, castanets, even some guitar. One of my signature arrangements was that I always like my records to end on the title of the song. In most cases, the vamp is pretty much the chorus anyway, so we would end the songs there and then fade it out.”.

    So Carl clearly set out to create a definitive, distinguishable Chicago Sound, and in his opinion succeeded in doing so. He had a formula for the construction of compositions, a house band, and a posse of arrangers who collectively created The Chicago Sound.
    When he created the Bashie label, it’s tag line boldly stated on each record was “The Sound Of Chicago “. Likewise his other label was concisely named “CHI-SOUND”.

    Bruce Swedien, the renowned Grammy award winning audio engineer and producer actually built a studio for Carl Davis in 1970 on South Michigan Avenue, Chicago. “I worked daily with Carl Davis. I got to record artists such as Jackie Wilson, Otis Leavill, Major Lance and Billy Butler. Our recorded sound was full of the uptown sophistication that epitomised Chicago’s 60’s soul. Every day at Brunswick Studios, I recorded the Chicago soul sound - black American music of its era, at its absolute peak”

    So in conclusion, whilst there were different types of Chicago soul along the way, I would submit that the productions overseen by Carl Davis, using the house band and family of arrangers he hired, the format of the compositions, the studios, the engineering talent, and the artists he coached and mentored, created the definitive and distinctive Chicago Sound, unique to Chicago and readily identifiable.
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    I would add to that what Curtis Mayfield, Jerry Butler, Billy Butler, Major Lance, Otis Leavill were doing - which also had Carl Davis involved, and what Bunky Sheppard, Bernice Williams, Bob Lee, and Ruth Moore were doing with The Dukays, Gene Chandler, The Sheppards, which also had Carl Davis involved, and what Billy Davis was doing at Chess, what Calvin Carter was doing at VJ, and The Leaner Brothers at One-derful/Marvelous/M-Pac/Toddlin' Town. The smaller label-owners/producers including Bob Catron and Bill Ehrman's Cortland/Witch Records, Sebons Foster's Nation/Salem Records, Chuck Colbert's Tip Top/Nike/Mellow Records, USA Records, Mel London's Chief/Profile/Age/Starville/Tamboo Records, Al Benson's Glow Star/Crash/Mica Records, Leo Austell's Renee Records Group, Ran-Dee/Mar-Kie Records, James Shelton's Daran/JWO, and Barry Despenza's labels, and Don Clay and Ric Williams(early-until he started emulating The Detroit Sound) ALL used many of the same studios, arrangers and session musicians, and so, heavily copied or fell into having a similar sound to what Carl Davis was doing.

  20. #70
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    Tyrone (The Wonder Boy):

  21. #71
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    Diane Cunningham:

  22. #72
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    Donald and The Delighters:

  23. #73
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    Jo Armstead - even with Mike Terry arranging, it's a Chicago-style song:

  24. #74
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    Harvey Scales and The 7 Sounds - Milwaukee Group - recorded in Chicago:

  25. #75
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    Jo Ann Garrett:

  26. #76
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    The Dontells:

  27. #77
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    Martha Jean Love:

  28. #78
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    I'll bet you didn't know that the bigoted ultra right winger, Henry Ford sang the first Chicago Soul record when he was young! Here's Young Henry Ford:

  29. #79
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    Here's Otis Brown and The Delights:

  30. #80
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    Here are The Gems - with Minnie Ripperton on lead:

  31. #81
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    Here are The Classic Sullivans:

  32. #82
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    Here are The Creations, with another Vietnam Song:

  33. #83
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    Here are The Trends - The OTHER Tommy Dorsey's group:

  34. #84
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    The Ivorys:

  35. #85
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    The Fascinators- NOT The Detroit group:

  36. #86
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    Reginald Day:

  37. #87
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    The Carltons - who copied The Impressions:

  38. #88
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    Mary Wells was also sent to Carl Davis in Chicago, to revive her career:

  39. #89
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    The Emeralds:

  40. #90
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    The Scott Brothers:

  41. #91
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    Barbara Acklin's first solo record:

  42. #92
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    The Cheers, with little Ben Norfleet on lead:

  43. #93
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    Prince Curtis (AKA Curtis Prince):

  44. #94
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    Fred Hughes:

  45. #95
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    Maurice Jackson - owner of Maurci Records:

  46. #96
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    Newday:

  47. #97
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    Joe Murphy, ex lead of The Five Jets:

  48. #98
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    Denise LaSalle:

  49. #99
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    The Peaches:

  50. #100
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    Bobby Hutton (AKA Harold Hutton):

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