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  1. #1

    Revisiting the “Return to love tour” 20 years later

    Very interesting. Read what Lynda Lawrence now has to say.

    https://michaelpcoleman.wordpress.co...0-years-later/

  2. #2
    Well that certainly put the boots to it all

  3. #3
    It was certainly interesting to read how Lynda feels but unfortunately I do not agree with anything she said about the tour or Mary. She herself sounds like the still bitter/jealous one and she herself needs to develop some respect for the lady, Ms Mary Wilson, who brought her into The Supremes in the first place. Here I thought she had patched things up with Mary when they were pictured together after one of her Vegas shows last year, but it sounds like Lynda went there with an agenda/business proposition. And just because they were getting a full house every night doesn't mean that the tour was pulling in the numbers that it needed. Like a lot of shows I've attended, it's likely for some of the dates that they were selling tons of cheaply discounted tickets at the door, hours before the show, in order to fill it up as best they could. Hence, why the promoters would have asked Diana to sign on for five years, as it would probably have been the only foreseeable way for them to cover their financial losses, over the long-term. So it's ironic that Lynda is accusing Mary of not understanding the business side, as her comments make it seem like she doesn't understand it herself.

    I loved the tour though and it was my first time seeing Ms. Ross. I was 11 years old. It will always hold a special place in my heart.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by vgalindo View Post
    Very interesting. Read what Lynda Lawrence now has to say.

    https://michaelpcoleman.wordpress.co...0-years-later/
    Mary Wilson is a jackass. I have zero respect for Wilson, and according to the article, I am not alone.
    Last edited by Circa 1824; 05-29-2020 at 10:20 PM.

  5. #5
    Lynda Laurence needs to go home. She's drunk!

    "Return to Love" has played to half-empty halls since its launch last month, with a mere 3,000 fans turning up for a concert in Columbus, Ohio, and a fraction of the seats filled at Atlanta's Philips Arena.

    The arena in Columbus holds approx. 19,000. They didn't even come close to selling out their Detroit Metro gig at Auburn Hills. It was more than half empty. So either she's trying hard to convince herself that the tour was successful, or she is just a horrible liar.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...-7b3b6c763442/

    It's "Time to Move On"! LOL!!!
    Last edited by marv2; 05-29-2020 at 07:43 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by carlo View Post
    It was certainly interesting to read how Lynda feels but unfortunately I do not agree with anything she said about the tour or Mary. She herself sounds like the still bitter/jealous one and she herself needs to develop some respect for the lady, Ms Mary Wilson, who brought her into The Supremes in the first place. Here I thought she had patched things up with Mary when they were pictured together after one of her Vegas shows last year, but it sounds like Lynda went there with an agenda/business proposition. And just because they were getting a full house every night doesn't mean that the tour was pulling in the numbers that it needed. Like a lot of shows I've attended, it's likely for some of the dates that they were selling tons of cheaply discounted tickets at the door, hours before the show, in order to fill it up as best they could. Hence, why the promoters would have asked Diana to sign on for five years, as it would probably have been the only foreseeable way for them to cover their financial losses, over the long-term. So it's ironic that Lynda is accusing Mary of not understanding the business side, as her comments make it seem like she doesn't understand it herself.

    I loved the tour though and it was my first time seeing Ms. Ross. I was 11 years old. It will always hold a special place in my heart.

    You dont have to agree Carlo but its her perspective and she was there. Theres 10 sides to every story. From what ive heard Miss Lynda is a very smart businesswoman. This thread can only go south so thats me outta here. Take care.

    Fondly,

    Roberta

  7. #7
    Another can of worms again so before it goes any further, Circa and Marv cut the crap out now.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Roberta75 View Post
    You dont have to agree Carlo but its her perspective and she was there. Theres 10 sides to every story. From what ive heard Miss Lynda is a very smart businesswoman.
    Yep, she was there, as an employee. I doubt Diana would approve of her former employee dishing the dirt on Mary Wilson and the business of the tour. I mean, why would the promoters cancel any tour, if it was turning a profit? They cancelled it because it wasn't. The lady sounds delusional. You may say she is a smart business woman, but I say she is an opportunist who managed to make a career out of a short lived legacy in the Supremes, that she initially pulled the plug on herself, because she was too egotistical to work with Mary (and still is). Then she went on to crawl back to The Supremes by joining the FLOS, where she wrongfully and deceptively used The Supremes' name, until Mary dragged her behind to court. Then she went on to re-record The Supremes' original hits that she had nothing to do with and released the recordings under The Supremes' name and even used images of the original Supremes to market these recordings. Sounds like she is the one who has been relying on The Supremes' name all of these years, 'without the goods to back it up'.

  9. #9
    ...and then she goes on to talk about Diana's relationship with Mary and Cindy, and Mary and Flo. Lynda wasn't there. Who made her the spokesperson?

  10. #10
    This writer can’t spell either “Lynda” or “Laurence” correctly. The only person who was ever called a Supreme that I never liked or trusted was Lynda. I’m sorry, but Lynda can’t speak to what Mary and Flo and Diana had between them or what Cindy and Diana had between them. She’s a sh*t-stirrer-upper. Ms. Payne is much classier.

  11. #11
    This is something that didn't need revisited. The interview with Miss Laurence was something I personally found to be aggravating. I don't know how close she is with Miss Ross but she makes it seem as if she was let in on all of Miss Ross' personal feelings about Flo, Mary and Cindy as well as how her children felt about Mary. I know there was tension between Laurence and Wilson, but like Carlo, thought that perhaps since she was no longer in the FLOs and saw Mary in Vegas that things were more cordial. I found it distasteful. Miss Payne's remarks were fine, complimentary on both. We certainly did not need this topic written on again. I found the article to be distasteful. We all know that there will be no reunion. I will always think of Lynda as a former Supreme-one who replaced Cindy for 18 months and who was in RTL. Her role in the group is, perhaps, not what she would like it to be but I still will only think of her limited contributions to the group. Best of luck and thanks to Diana, Mary, Scherrie and Susaye for still being out there and performing so well. Those are what I celebrate now, not the moments from 20 years ago that caused even more fractures in the fandom.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by cornybside View Post
    ...and then she goes on to talk about Diana's relationship with Mary and Cindy, and Mary and Flo. Lynda wasn't there. Who made her the spokesperson?
    Lynda has every right to speak. She had been in that world long before RTL, and has undoubtedly heard volumes about everyone from countless numbers of people. I hope she writes a book and tells everything. Cindy chose never to have written a book about her historic entry into The Supremes and the drama during her long tenure. Diana wrote 300 pages about absolutely nothing. Come on Lynda, it’s your turn. Spill them beans.

    BTW, the greatest writers of history were never there. Please don’t suggest books on historical figures can never be written unless the author was front and center. The greatest historical books are often written hundreds of years after the fact.
    Last edited by Circa 1824; 05-30-2020 at 10:04 AM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Circa 1824 View Post
    Lynda has every right to speak. She had been in that world long before RTL, and has undoubtedly heard volumes about everyone from countless numbers of people. I hope she writes a book and tells everything. Cindy was indeed foolish to have passed on RTL, and never to have written a book about her historic entry into The Supremes. Diana wrote 300 pages about absolutely nothing. Come on Lynda, it’s your turn. Spill them beans.

    BTW, the greatest writers of history were never there. So, are you suggesting books on historical figures can never be written unless the author was front and center? Are you kidding????
    Yes, you must be correct. Just like Tony Turner's book. Per your theory, his book is 100% undoubtedly and entirely correct and accurate ...written by someone who wasn't always there at 'the scene of the crime', so to speak. You should go into publishing, and maybe consider financing Lynda's book yourself. Sounds like you have a hit on your hands. I'm sure people will run to buy it. Maybe Oprah could even do a sit down with her, much like she did when Lynda was on the show in 2000. Oh wait, she was in the audience because no one knew who she was. Ok well I'm sure she will still write a best seller and becomes one of the next 'greatest writers of history', to share the most important tales that were relayed to her, second-hand by Diana Ross or Mary Wilson, about how Florence threw a hair brush across the room, directly at Diana. Never been revealed nor told by ANY Supreme. You can include that on the back of the book jacket. People will eat that up.

  14. #14
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    Everyone has a story to tell, and a right to tell it. Some of the best books are fiction!

  15. #15
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    Lynda was correct saying the tour’s failure was NOT about Mary. It failed because of Lynda and Sherrie.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Circa 1824 View Post
    Mary Wilson is a jackass. I have zero respect for Wilson, and according to the article, I am not alone.
    Oh please. That article is nothing but a bunch of bullshit from some glassy Diana Ross fan that hasn't blinked or had a bowl movement since the Johnson Administration ..... the ANDREW Johnson administration.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by cornybside View Post
    Yes, you must be correct. Just like Tony Turner's book. Per your theory, his book is 100% undoubtedly and entirely correct and accurate ...written by someone who wasn't always there at 'the scene of the crime', so to speak. You should go into publishing, and maybe consider financing Lynda's book yourself. Sounds like you have a hit on your hands. I'm sure people will run to buy it. Maybe Oprah could even do a sit down with her, much like she did when Lynda was on the show in 2000. Oh wait, she was in the audience because no one knew who she was. Ok well I'm sure she will still write a best seller and becomes one of the next 'greatest writers of history', to share the most important tales that were relayed to her, second-hand by Diana Ross or Mary Wilson, about how Florence threw a hair brush across the room, directly at Diana. Never been revealed nor told by ANY Supreme. You can include that on the back of the book jacket. People will eat that up.
    Tony Turner? That queen is so full of shit. That was some damn good shade you just threw!!!

  18. #18
    Oh god not this shit again.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    Well that certainly put the boots to it all
    Yeah you need boots to read that pile of shit.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by vgalindo View Post
    Very interesting. Read what Lynda Lawrence now has to say.

    https://michaelpcoleman.wordpress.co...0-years-later/
    what a load of bs from the supreme with the briefest tenure.
    Lynda - Mary has made a good living out of the supremes , is more known, had more success and opportunities than you. Still waiting for your mega hit to come along ? Remind me how many hits you had with the Supremes?

    Mary and Cindy were the ones the fans wanted with Diana ... barely anyone knows who you are... plus you were way cheaper than Mary and Cindy.... and shrill in voice

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by mwmr View Post
    what a load of bs from the supreme with the briefest tenure.
    Lynda - Mary has made a good living out of the supremes , is more known, had more success and opportunities than you. Still waiting for your mega hit to come along ? Remind me how many hits you had with the Supremes?

    Mary and Cindy were the ones the fans wanted with Diana ... barely anyone knows who you are... plus you were way cheaper than Mary and Cindy.... and shrill in voice
    I don't believe for one minute that Lynda made those remarks. She was recently at one of Mary's show in Las Vegas and praised Mary. This "writer" is just some dumb shit talking out of his ass.

  22. #22
    this thread was , cursed from the start, I am sure.

    that is a lot to say (if accurate) from a replacement Supreme who had the shortest tenure, and least successful recordings participated in...and just where did Lynda get all her business savvy?....being a negotiator for the FLO's? That pales in comparison with the importance of any former Supreme being involved in ONE Diana Ross tour.

    Mary is the reason I am a Supremes fan...I loved JMC, and MSC are my favorite 70's live grouping...Mary just always was my favorite...but she handled the invitation unwisely, and that blew the chance for a DRATS reunion...sorry to say, fact is any reunion without Diana Ross is simply another FLO'S unit performance

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by cornybside View Post
    Yep, she was there, as an employee. I doubt Diana would approve of her former employee dishing the dirt on Mary Wilson and the business of the tour. I mean, why would the promoters cancel any tour, if it was turning a profit? They cancelled it because it wasn't. The lady sounds delusional. You may say she is a smart business woman, but I say she is an opportunist who managed to make a career out of a short lived legacy in the Supremes, that she initially pulled the plug on herself, because she was too egotistical to work with Mary (and still is). Then she went on to crawl back to The Supremes by joining the FLOS, where she wrongfully and deceptively used The Supremes' name, until Mary dragged her behind to court. Then she went on to re-record The Supremes' original hits that she had nothing to do with and released the recordings under The Supremes' name and even used images of the original Supremes to market these recordings. Sounds like she is the one who has been relying on The Supremes' name all of these years, 'without the goods to back it up'.
    I believe Lynda obtained the name or trademark overseas for their use. Kinda sneaky if that is true. Maybe someone here can verify the rumor.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by mwmr View Post
    what a load of bs from the supreme with the briefest tenure.
    Lynda - Mary has made a good living out of the supremes , is more known, had more success and opportunities than you. Still waiting for your mega hit to come along ? Remind me how many hits you had with the Supremes?


    Mary and Cindy were the ones the fans wanted with Diana ... barely anyone knows who you are... plus you were way cheaper than Mary and Cindy.... and shrill in voice
    I saw the Flos with Lynda at one of Ian Levine's deal in Detroit. Whew talk abt loud and shrill. We all left as they were over the top in their esp. Lynda loudness. As a side note, Jean did a nice job on Ladder. We could still hear them 3 blocks away as we walked to our cars.

  25. #25
    I’m a little surprised this surfaced now

    It was a great time to be a Supreme or one of their fans and I recall reading that all their bookings were damaged by RTL

    This helps to ensure there won’t ever be even a one song singing reunion

    No wonder Diana never discusses other Supremes

  26. #26
    Again, another attempt to bash Mary Wilson. Look, I think in the world of the Supremes, there was Mary's truth, Diana's truth, the other Supremes' truths and then the real truth in the middle. I actually do think the promoters flub that tour up. I watched a few performances of Diana, Scherrie and Lynda and it could've worked. But because this is still a man's world, they try to force the Supremes to do it their way. Diana said no. And that was it. The number one reason why the Supremes don't get the respect they get besides being black was they're women. The most successful all-female vocal group of all time and over 50 and they get told "you don't know how to run a show?" Child bye!

    But we have to stop blaming Mary. Obviously they all had issues with each other. Remember, the ORIGINAL Supremes were put together. None of them were really "girlfriends" anyway. Mary obviously does understand the business as well as Diana but they do things very different and they'll never agree to anything. Can we just accept that it should be buried. No reason to talk about it again 20 years later!

    Besides that though, those three did look MAHVELOUS together.
    Last edited by midnightman; 05-30-2020 at 06:48 PM.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by REYnoldo Chavez View Post
    I don't believe for one minute that Lynda made those remarks. She was recently at one of Mary's show in Las Vegas and praised Mary. This "writer" is just some dumb shit talking out of his ass.
    Let's hope so!

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by cornybside View Post
    Yes, you must be correct. Just like Tony Turner's book. Per your theory, his book is 100% undoubtedly and entirely correct and accurate ...written by someone who wasn't always there at 'the scene of the crime', so to speak. You should go into publishing, and maybe consider financing Lynda's book yourself. Sounds like you have a hit on your hands. I'm sure people will run to buy it. Maybe Oprah could even do a sit down with her, much like she did when Lynda was on the show in 2000. Oh wait, she was in the audience because no one knew who she was. Ok well I'm sure she will still write a best seller and becomes one of the next 'greatest writers of history', to share the most important tales that were relayed to her, second-hand by Diana Ross or Mary Wilson, about how Florence threw a hair brush across the room, directly at Diana. Never been revealed nor told by ANY Supreme. You can include that on the back of the book jacket. People will eat that up.
    Tony Turner exaggerated everything lol
    Was he around the Supremes? Sometimes.
    But his reads are more entertaining than informative.
    He had Flo more animated than she was! LOL
    He made her into a damn CARTOON! Child please.

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Tony Turner exaggerated everything lol
    Was he around the Supremes? Sometimes.
    But his reads are more entertaining than informative.
    He had Flo more animated than she was! LOL
    He made her into a damn CARTOON! Child please.
    And La Turner was in this forum under a fake screen name talking about how Tony had married a "Spanish Count" and traveled the world and had a 29' inch waistline.

  30. #30
    What I will always remember is the condescending and proprietary way Wilson attempted to delegitimize Scherrie and Lynda by repeating "I brought them into the group" -- as if they didn't exist until she made them Supremes. She wanted it to fail and she wanted to hurt Ross.

    Wilson and Ross share the blame but not equally. Wilson is definitely more at fault.

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Can we just accept that it should be buried. No reason to talk about it again 20 years later!
    Totally agree. I truly think that Diana and Mary have both moved on from this, ages ago. Perhaps we should all follow their lead and take the high road...myself included.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlo View Post
    Totally agree. I truly think that Diana and Mary have both moved on from this, ages ago. Perhaps we should all follow their lead and take the high road...myself included.
    Okay, Karen

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Circa 1824 View Post
    Okay, Karen
    It's actually spelled Kaaren, sweetie. Ms Ragland to you. However, it's Carlo. Next time I'm sure you'll remember to get the spelling right on the Starbucks cup, or else I will go full-out 'Kaaren mode' and will ask to speak to your manager.

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by carlo View Post
    It's actually spelled Kaaren, sweetie. Ms Ragland to you. However, it's Carlo. Next time I'm sure you'll remember to get the spelling right on the Starbucks cup, or else I will go full-out 'Kaaren mode' and will ask to speak to your manager.
    OMG Carlo! You just totally made my day. Damn, I haven't laughed so hard since . . . it seems like forever. Thank You! Three snaps and serious thumbs up! You go boy.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by sophisticated_soul View Post
    OMG Carlo! You just totally made my day. Damn, I haven't laughed so hard since . . . it seems like forever. Thank You! Three snaps and serious thumbs up! You go boy.
    Sophisticated Soul, aw so glad to hear that Hope you're doing well!

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by carlo View Post
    Sophisticated Soul, aw so glad to hear that Hope you're doing well!
    All things considered, not bad. Hangin' in there. Hope all is well with you and yours.

  37. #37
    This is a poorly written article, it sounds as if a middle school student who was gossiping on the corner had written it. I also don't believe Lynda would even comment in that manner, she's been in show business much too long. I wouldn't believe the comments in this article any further than I could throw them.

  38. #38
    [QUOTE=marv2;578203]Lynda Laurence needs to go home. She's drunk!

    "Return to Love" has played to half-empty halls since its launch last month, with a mere 3,000 fans turning up for a concert in Columbus, Ohio, and a fraction of the seats filled at Atlanta's Philips Arena.

    The arena in Columbus holds approx. 19,000. They didn't even come close to selling out their Detroit Metro gig at Auburn Hills. It was more than half empty. So either she's trying hard to convince herself that the tour was successful, or she is just a horrible liar.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...-7b3b6c763442/

    It's "Time to Move On"! LOL!!![/
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Lynda Laurence needs to go home. She's drunk!

    "Return to Love" has played to half-empty halls since its launch last month, with a mere 3,000 fans turning up for a concert in Columbus, Ohio, and a fraction of the seats filled at Atlanta's Philips Arena.

    The arena in Columbus holds approx. 19,000. They didn't even come close to selling out their Detroit Metro gig at Auburn Hills. It was more than half empty. So either she's trying hard to convince herself that the tour was successful, or she is just a horrible liar.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...-7b3b6c763442/

    It's "Time to Move On"! LOL!!!
    Mary’s lies contributed to the negativity surrounding the tour. Lying about her offers, lying about Diana’s salary, lying to Cindy about the progress of negotiations, lying to the public calling Sherrie and Lynda “fake Supremes.”
    Mary also lied throughout her Phil Donahue interview including saying that she had just spoken to Diana a couple months ago at the beginning of the interview. Later in the interview, she said she hadn’t spoken to Diana since she asked her to be interviewed for the book, which, would have to of been a long Time before that because the book had been printed More than just a couple of months ago. Mary also lied on the show when she said she was going to help close children financially if the book sells a huge amount… And she never gave them a dime, don’t believe me? Ask one of them. Mary also lied in several interviews recently where she claims to have invented the term, “no hit Supremes.”
    I could put up another several dozen provable lies Mary has told, but I think I’ve made my point. Just because Mary says it doesn’t make it true. If you would like another dozen or two lies backed up with proof, please let me know and give me 45 minutes lead time.

    however, the fact that Mary is very casual with the truth and seems to always have been, all of the blame can not be dumped at her feet. Far from it. I think it was rude and insensitive of Diana to be in contact with Cindy about the reunion tour for months before she ever spoke to Mary. And I think if I were Mary, I would be annoyed that I heard about the tour not from Diana, or even Cindy, But from a total stranger who happens to be a promoter and a longtime colleague of diana’s. I don’t blame mary at all for being butt sore about that And, with her back up now, she may have been a little more persnickety than she would’ve been had Diana contacted her first in a more friendly manner. I read that Diana called her last because she dreaded ever speaking to her again, however if this is true, and I believe that it could be, why is she planning on doing this tour at all? Was she really planning to resurrect Diana Ross and the Supremes the way they were before were no one was speaking? Of course Diana and Cindy would be speaking as they had grown close over the years. And, Diana could’ve called mary herself and told her to stop lying to the press about how much money she was being paid because it wasn’t true and it was making it very difficult for her to want to be associated with her. Perhaps Mary would’ve shut the fuck up with her money lies which may have saved the tour.

    The truth of the matter is that Jones beach and Washington DC were canceled in the afternoon of the Jones beach date. 90 minutes And a heavy contract talk with diana ross’ lawyers later, SFX change their mind and uncanceled the shows. Sherry told me how happy everyone was when their beepers went off to tell them to get back to the bus as soon as possible because the show was going to happen after all. Once they got on the bus and we’re ready to leave for Jones beach, they got the word that the Senate had already been struck and there’s no way that they could get it back up again in time for the show. An hour later, diana ross put out a press release stating that the tour has been canceled by its promoters. The promoters, however, tinnitus and said only these two shows were going to be canceled and the rest of the shows would play. For the next 3 1/2 weeks SFX continued to say that the tour was not canceled, and diana ross said it was. SFX tried to play hardball with her, realized they were playing with fire when they cancel the show in Jones beach that clearly was against their pay or play contract agreement. That put them in breach of contract and a couple months after that made a huge settlement with diana ross and saw that the talent was paid in full. I knew her saxophone player at the time and he told me that it took six or eight weeks, but the band got paid in full for the entire concert schedule.

    I wish that diana had handled things better, I wish that Mary would’ve handled things better, but the show was fantastic and the audience went crazy for it.

    there were dozens of articles at the time in every city that sad the promoters insist the show will go on While diana ross maintains that the entire tour has been canceled. If you’re going to discuss something, stop acting like Donald Trump and tell the truth and all sides of the truth. Columbus had concert seating for 13,600, not a 19,000 as you claim. Still selling 3000 seats is terrible however, it’s more seats than mary wilson sold all of last year so everything is relative. You also have a tendency to leave out the fact that Madison Square Garden was sold out and that Chicago Toronto Montreal Detroit Philadelphia and Atlanta Dallas and Houston were all profitable shows. Only Columbus was not profitable of the shows that were played. And you are lying when you say Chicago and Detroit were less than half full. Just like you were lying back in the day when you said Madison Square Garden wasn’t sold out, that the promoters papered the venue. You said that for several weeks until a number of people who were there asked you why you were making up such a bold face lie. Then Billboard printed the gross of 1.4 million And you finally stopped telling that lie. Marv, you can make your points without lying - RTL had very disappointing ticket sales and that is the truth, but they were not as bad as you are suggesting, and those concerts were not canceled by the promoter and there are dozens of music articles to support that statement. Not only did diana ross and the performers I’ll get paid in full for the unplayed shows, But SFX issued a statement saying how wonderful it is to work with diana ross and what a true professional she is and how they look forward to working with her again soon… Which they did As soon as she returned to the stage.

    I completely understand why a lot of people refused to see the show without Mary and Cindy in it, however, a lot of people that went to it thinking they weren’t gonna like it because Mary and Cindy weren’t in it, loved it to pieces. I never heard of one person saying they didn’t love the show. And of the shows I saw, the applause and the response was deafening.

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
    Not only did diana ross and the performers I’ll get paid in full for the unplayed shows, But SFX issued a statement saying how wonderful it is to work with diana ross and what a true professional she is and how they look forward to working with her again soon… Which they did As soon as she returned to the stage.
    Do you have a link or copy of this statement that was made by SFX? Just curious, as this is news to me. Furthermore, I've always been under the impression that Diana has been self-financing her tours since 2002 and has not worked with any promoters, with the exception of AEG for her Vegas shows? What shows were SFX involved in? When she returned to the stage, that was in 2002/2003, and those were much smaller shows, some of which ended up being cancelled for health reasons.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlo View Post
    It's actually spelled Kaaren, sweetie. Ms Ragland to you. However, it's Carlo. Next time I'm sure you'll remember to get the spelling right on the Starbucks cup, or else I will go full-out 'Kaaren mode' and will ask to speak to your manager.
    It is NOT spelled Kaaren !!! And you have no business calling me sweetie. Keep your distance!

  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
    If you’re going to discuss something, stop acting like Donald Trump and tell the truth and all sides of the truth. Columbus had concert seating for 13,600, not a 19,000 as you claim. Still selling 3000 seats is terrible however, it’s more seats than mary wilson sold all of last year so everything is relative. You also have a tendency to leave out the fact that Madison Square Garden was sold out and that Chicago Toronto Montreal Detroit Philadelphia and Atlanta Dallas and Houston were all profitable shows. Only Columbus was not profitable of the shows that were played. And you are lying when you say Chicago and Detroit were less than half full. Just like you were lying back in the day when you said Madison Square Garden wasn’t sold out, that the promoters papered the venue. You said that for several weeks until a number of people who were there asked you why you were making up such a bold face lie. Then Billboard printed the gross of 1.4 million And you finally stopped telling that lie. Marv, you can make your points without lying - RTL had very disappointing ticket sales and that is the truth, but they were not as bad as you are suggesting, and those concerts were not canceled by the promoter and there are dozens of music articles to support that statement.
    Could you share with us the dozens of music articles that you are referencing, that support that these shows were not cancelled by the promoter? I like looking at facts to support claims. I've heard differently from others. For example, someone I know attended the Houston show and confirmed that the attendance was poor, so much so, that he was allowed to sit significantly closer to the stage compared to his originally purchased seat. This is why I like to look at substantiated facts with support from articles, as otherwise, all of these conflicting reports become a he-said, she-said, hearsay mess.

    Marv isn't wrong and I don't think he was lying about the 3,000 seats out of 19,000 seats being sold at the Columbus date, as this article from the LA Times states that very fact. Maybe they got the seating capacity of the venue wrong:

    "And some nights the audience was closer in number to 10 than 10,000. In Columbus, Ohio, for example, only 3,000 of 19,000 seats were sold, while a Tampa, Fla., show filled only 5,000 of 20,000 seats. In the past week, shows in Long Island, N.Y., Washington and Pittsburgh were canceled without specific explanation from the lead promoter, SFX Entertainment, which prompted the Ross statement."

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...281-story.html

  42. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Circa 1824 View Post
    It is NOT spelled Kaaren !!! And you have no business calling me sweetie. Keep your distance!
    Well maybe you have no business demeaning someone by calling them "Karen". Keep things respectful.

  43. #43
    The Palace of Auburn Hills can actually hold approx 24,000 seats. BTW it is now demolished. Saw many great act there back in the day. Interestingly, nobody talks about the "fact" that Gordy talked to the promoters to no avail. He told Ross to go ahead if she really wants this, but warned her about not having Mary and Cindy. In retrospect, they should have booked the FOX Theater (Detroit) for two nights.



    June 14, 2000 Philadelphia United States First Union Spectrum 9,000 / 13,000 N/A
    June 16, 2000 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Mellon Arena N/A
    June 19, 2000 Auburn Hills, Michigan The Palace of Auburn Hills 10,000 / 16,000
    June 20, 2000 Columbus, Ohio Value City Arena 3,000 / 13,000
    June 22, 2000 Atlanta Philips Arena N/A
    June 24, 2000 Tampa, Florida Ice Palace 5,000 / 15,000
    June 25, 2000 Sunrise, Florida National Car Rental Center 6,500 / 15,207
    Last edited by detmotownguy; 05-31-2020 at 12:00 PM.

  44. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by gman View Post
    this thread was , cursed from the start, I am sure.

    that is a lot to say (if accurate) from a replacement Supreme who had the shortest tenure, and least successful recordings participated in...and just where did Lynda get all her business savvy?....being a negotiator for the FLO's? That pales in comparison with the importance of any former Supreme being involved in ONE Diana Ross tour.

    Mary is the reason I am a Supremes fan...I loved JMC, and MSC are my favorite 70's live grouping...Mary just always was my favorite...but she handled the invitation unwisely, and that blew the chance for a DRATS reunion...sorry to say, fact is any reunion without Diana Ross is simply another FLO'S unit performance
    Not causing a fight, I just find this deal/project interesting from a business perspective because this deal is flawed from the beginning to end. ..... but it was hardly an invitation but a half a***d attempt when it is said, "all she had to do was show up"! It was a disrespectful effort without any pre-discussion for the planning stage. Plus I have heard Ross say this wasn't a reunion tour anyway, but then she said she wanted all the Supremes involved. What was the exact objective to be acheived? A real DRATS reunion or not. I still think that Gordy should have been the consultant from the beginning since he obviously had the experience.

  45. #45
    Well said detmotownguy, and thank you for providing those numbers for the shows.

  46. #46
    I find some of the information and facts that are being brought out in this thread and in the initial blog post to be interesting. Some of these details I've never seen before today and it's refreshing from the usual old and tired views being shared. In following up my earlier question to MotownManiac about asking for articles to support some of the information that was mentioned in their post, I came across the following article originally published in the New York Times, which does show that perhaps the promoters were indeed willing to still go ahead with the tour, but other complications got in the way that caused the plug to be pulled entirely:

    "The Supremes May Be Ending National Tour

    By Neil Strauss

    July 11, 2000

    See the article in its original context from
    July 11, 2000, Section A, Page 18Buy Reprints

    A reunion of Diana Ross with members of her former group, the Supremes, was canceled yesterday, according to a statement released by Ms. Ross.

    A spokesman for SFX, the concert promoter, disputed Ms. Ross's statement, saying the company had not yet decided to cancel the reunion. He said that dates in Wantagh, N.Y., Washington and Pittsburgh had been canceled but the rest of the tour, which is scheduled to end in Las Vegas on Aug. 5, would continue.

    The reason for the talk of cancellation, according to executives in the concert business, was poor ticket sales in many cities. Premium seats for the show were priced as high as $250 and, with the exception of Ms. Ross, the reunited group did not include members from the Motown group's heyday in the 1960's. Although the group's concert at Madison Square Garden on July 6 was sold out, in most other cities concert halls have been only half full. Even with poor ticket sales, it is rare for such a highly promoted tour to be canceled midway through its run."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2000/07/11/u...onal-tour.html

  47. #47
    [QUOTE=Guy;578307]What I will always remember is the condescending and proprietary way Wilson attempted to delegitimize Scherrie and Lynda by repeating "I brought them into the group" -- as if they didn't exist until she made them Supremes. She wanted it to fail and she wanted to hurt Ross.

    But that’s a TRUE fact . Mary DID bring them both into the group. Without Mary bringing them in they would never had been Supremes so would never have been on this tour with Diana.
    Yes they existed before but not as Supremes.
    of course Mary wanted it to fail.. she was a founding member . If I’d have been in Mary’s shoes I’d have wanted it to fail.

  48. #48
    I’m really learning a lot things I never knew about the tour. Fascinating stuff.
    Regardless of Mary and Cindy’s non participation, had the tickets not been priced quite so high, would those venues had been filled and the tour gone on to huge success. They could have ditched the dancers and additional background vocalists for a start.
    Ticket price aside, the tour would most certainly have gone down a storm in Europe. It really should have kicked off in the UK or the Netherlands. The USA should probably have been last port of call.

  49. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by cornybside View Post
    I find some of the information and facts that are being brought out in this thread and in the initial blog post to be interesting. Some of these details I've never seen before today and it's refreshing from the usual old and tired views being shared. In following up my earlier question to MotownManiac about asking for articles to support some of the information that was mentioned in their post, I came across the following article originally published in the New York Times, which does show that perhaps the promoters were indeed willing to still go ahead with the tour, but other complications got in the way that caused the plug to be pulled entirely:

    "The Supremes May Be Ending National Tour

    By Neil Strauss

    July 11, 2000

    See the article in its original context from
    July 11, 2000, Section A, Page 18Buy Reprints

    A reunion of Diana Ross with members of her former group, the Supremes, was canceled yesterday, according to a statement released by Ms. Ross.

    A spokesman for SFX, the concert promoter, disputed Ms. Ross's statement, saying the company had not yet decided to cancel the reunion. He said that dates in Wantagh, N.Y., Washington and Pittsburgh had been canceled but the rest of the tour, which is scheduled to end in Las Vegas on Aug. 5, would continue.

    The reason for the talk of cancellation, according to executives in the concert business, was poor ticket sales in many cities. Premium seats for the show were priced as high as $250 and, with the exception of Ms. Ross, the reunited group did not include members from the Motown group's heyday in the 1960's. Although the group's concert at Madison Square Garden on July 6 was sold out, in most other cities concert halls have been only half full. Even with poor ticket sales, it is rare for such a highly promoted tour to be canceled midway through its run."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2000/07/11/u...onal-tour.html
    Hello: The article states my point - negativity coming in and high ticket prices and an audience that was confused. Plus, it was essentially a Diana Ross show, because she didn't interact with the other women.''
    In retrospect, the press would have gone crazy looking for an explanation of why it didn’t happen if Mary said nothing and went about her Concert schedule. Then after all the rumors developed and Ross offered some sort excuse why the tour was cancelled, Mary could have slammed them with the truth of how she was approached and treated ie. timeline of the communications and the assumption that she would just say yes wo having a say re her role. I will say it again, those 3 women and Berry should have sat down and worked this deal out. In the end, lack of communication blew it. But then again all Mary had to do was show up LOL!

  50. #50
    Not wanting to respond to this for the umpteenth time, I had to. What a bunch of complete crap. Lynda Laurence and Scherrie Payne both should have known better than to participate in something as monumental as this tour or what could have been. What hypocrites. They have both been tarnished permanently in my mind but I do hold a good place for Scherrie. I think they were caught up "in a moment", and as Lynda said about Mary, she herself did not understand the business of "show" business. Berry Gordy, at least from what I read, told Diana not to do it without Mary and Cindy. He was correct. Diana, thinking out of her ass again as she had many times throughout her career, CHOSE to do it anyway. If all were alive, why not bring back The Beatles without Ringo and George and bring in Jimmy Nicol and Stuart Sutcliffe? Once the negotiations faltered, I knew it would be a total disaster. Don't blame Mary. She stood up for herself. Lynda is as delusional as a Trump aide and probably besties with Omarosa. For a woman so hell bent on shading Mary, and a very short term member who attempted to make a career out of "having been" a member of The Supremes for 5 minutes, she should really go home along with this subject. There is and always will be camps for different members as foolish as it is. This is another pot calling the kettle black. No, I never liked Laurence. Scherrie should have just pursued her own solo career, her play writing and so forth. Instead they all used The Supremes name to try to further themselves which in itself is disgusting but especially Miss Lynda Laurence whose only claim to fame is a back up singer. An opportunist out to make a $$$ at anyone's expense. To bring this up 20 years later is just as pathetic as it began back then. It backfired big time and it was Ross' own doing. Not Mary Wilson's. Some of you really need to get a grip, let alone some semblance of a life instead of living in some fantasy land about The Supremes. Good gawd!!! Attn: Ralph, Get rid of this crap including mine.

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