The Supremes to ME

[jim aka jtigre99]

Everyone has their own opinion, as this forum clearly shows. This is just my opinion on what I hear and see about each individual Supreme visually and vocally. It is MY opinion and I LOVE THEM ALL!
DIANA ROSS- Diana clearly had the most pliable voice that could effortlessly go from one genre to the next with ease. She had a unique voice that was quite distinctive. Visually, she was exotic looking and very glamorous. Her voice was not the strongest or most full bodied when needed, it could be thin, reedy and nasal.Her voice was unique and distinctive, as was her look but she lacked a full bodied power that would be better suited for some stronger songs.
FLORENCE BALLARD-Florence had a strong and powerful voice. Her voice was not very unique but she certainly sang with gusto and power. Florence was visually more earthy, even when dressed glamorously she projected an aura of accessability and a down home girl next door look. She was endearingly awkward in choreography and would flash a smile or a look to the camera.Florence lacked a pliability and while she was a very talented vocalist,she lacked the ability to make you feel what she was singing as deeply as you could with her vocals. Much has been said about Florence being the best vocalist of the originals and technically she may have been but she seemed to lack the power to bring you in to feel what she was singing.
MARY WILSON-Mary had a voice that was also distinctive.Singing alto, her voice carried the perfect notes to harmonize between the other two singers. Mary is arguably the most visually beautiful and stunning Supreme. She excelled in choreography, always projecting a sheer love of entertaining. Mary lacked power in her 60's vocals and she was less pliable than Diana but more pliable than Florence. Her vocals are distinctive in that when you heard her, it stood out. Mary slowly gained confidence and her vocals in the 70's bear out what she was capable of, which was great. Had she had that confidence in the 60's, her vocal progressions would have been astounding within the group rather than after leaving the Supremes.
CINDY BIRDSONG-Cindy does not have a strong voice like her predecessor, but she offered a more comfortable glamour. Visually, she made a perfect background blend with Mary. Her vocals are not very strong or pliable but there is more ability in her vocals to make you feel what she singing. Cindy projected glamour, beauty,joy and unity in her performances. While Cindy is now particularly powerful or distinctive, her vocals bring you in to care about what she is singing. As the 70's progressed, we heard and saw Cindy become more distinctive in her vocals.
JEAN TERRELL-Jean had the unenviable task of replacing Diana Ross. She certainly was a much better singer than Diana but she was not as unique and she clearly lacked the charisma that Diana excuded onstage and the group seemed more of a group. Her vocals could be ingratiating or grating. She had a sound that was between Diana and Dionne Warwick, but it was a sound that was recognizable. When Jean sang some songs they were an introspective, jazz influenced ,thoughtful vocal but they didn't always draw you in to feel.Visually, she was a handsome woman but she never had that charisma that made you want to focus primarily on her. Mary and Cindy provided far more charisma in the background, Jean used her voice to command attention. She provided some of the best vocals of any Supremes incarnation.
LYNDA LAURENCE-Lynda had a very short tenure as a Supreme. Visually, she looked like Cindy[[who looked like Florence) and she had a powerful but not distinctive voice. She looked very good in glamorous gowns but also gave off a distinct mid 70's visual look which the group needed to stay contemporary. She was a good singer and provided a very nice look.
SCHERRIE PAYNE-Scherrie is perhaps the most underrated of the Supremes lead singers. Scherrie has a powerful voice, much like Florence had and a similar timbre to Mary, as well as being quite beautiful she easily was quite glamorous and visually stunning. This sound would have been similar to what the group would have sounded had Florence been the lead, although Scherrie had better control of her voice and the lyrics. She had charisma but blended more into the group than Diana could and her voice was not as distinctive as Diana or Jean nor as nuanced as Jean or Mary. Still, she provided powerhouse vocals, glamorous beauty and an obvious group mentality that made her stand out during her tenure.
SUSAYE GREENE-Susaye replaced Cindy and she was visually quite different in look from Cindy/Lynda/Florence. Her vocals are quite distinctive with her multi octave range,her ad libs to Heart Do The walking helped make this wonderful song stand out even more. Technically, she was one of the most outstanding singers in the group. Visually, having her and Scherrie together in the group made it look like Mary, who was the shortest of the originals, look too tall and shifted your eye to Mary on every song because of that. Susaye would have been an amazing solo star, her vocals and songwriting are wonderful[[much like Scherrie). On record, the last grouping cannot be touched for sheer talent and technical ability but onscreen the glamour of wearing 60's gowns while they all seemed to vie for the lead[[3 singers seeming to sing lead all at once). The last grouping was one of my very favorites for what they recorded and Susaye's vocals stood out as something that would have helped the group continue going forward.
Like I stated, I love all of the Supremes. These are just my opinions as to what I heard and viewed at the time and in retrospect. The fact that Diana, Mary, Scherrie and Susaye are all out there still providing entertainment and all of them still looking and sounding so great still is a testament to all of their talents. I am proud to be a Supremes fan.

[RanRan79]

Great post Jim! I mostly agree with it. Especially your use of "pliable" to describe Diana's voice. Excellent description of it and a lot of the reason why she was so successful, IMO. Diana's instrument is pretty thin as you point out, and I feel her biggest weakness is the noticeable thinness when a song or a point in a song calls for something bigger or fuller. But her interpretation skills are among the best in the business. It allows for her unique voice to move so easily between showtunes and r&b and pop. Her lower range is underrated and was often under utilized. Her ability to interpret is what I think the most endearing quality of Diana's voice. She often makes me believe that she's living whatever it is she is singing.

Now when it comes to Flo and Mary, my opinion is opposite yours. I think Flo's voice was more flexible than Mary's. Mary could sing the hell out of a ballad. Her voice on "Sunset" is gorgeous IMO. But on the uptempo stuff her voice usually doesn't cut it for me. On the flip, while I think Flo's strongest lane was probably uptempo, I think she was still operating in a comfort zone with ballads. Sadly for the two of them, I feel they weren't always paired with the right material.

Mary's voice worked perfect for "Baby Don't Go". Early on she had a "girl in love" quality to her voice that was perfect for a song like that or "The Tears". I think her voice would've been very easy for young girl record buyers to believe in. A bit of maturity gave her voice this sultry quality that she uses very well on "Our Day Will Come", and would've even been perfect for the lead on "A Breath Taking Guy". And if one thought Mary was incapable of belting every now and then, just take a listen to "Sunset". On the other hand, she sounds like a fish out of water on "Come and Get These Memories" and "Can't Take My Eyes Off You" [[studio version). Surprisingly she does a pretty good job on "Davy Crockett". I really enjoy her on that one. There was a warmth to Mary's voice that is so soothing and relaxing. She probably would've shined on the lead of the more jazzier standards the group did. After Diana left the group, Mary seemed to just get better and better. While I dislike the general idea of Mary singing uptempo dance songs, I think one of her very best vocal performances is "Early Morning Love". She has a command of her voice at that point that is almost surprising. But even in that era, it was the ballads that really show off why there's something about Mary.

Florence's voice is tied with Diana's and Jean's voices as my favorite Supreme voices. I fell in love with it the first time I heard "Buttered Popcorn". Flo possessed this gospel instrument with a bluesy edge that is really right up my alley. She had the type of voice that, when working it just right, one would get that "stank face" expression because you listen to her and know that this girl can just flat out sing. She rocked "Popcorn" and "Good News", the latter I feel is superior to Sam's original. And her lead on "Long Gone Lover" shows off her upper range nicely. While I do find her pleasant enough on "Save Me A Star" and "Heavenly Father", I'm underwhelmed. IMO those two songs would be a great fit for Mary, while "Come And Get These Memories" would've been a great fit for Florence. While a Supreme, sadly we didn't get to experience much of Flo's lead singing on a ballad. "People" was obviously sung ad nauseam, and while I really do enjoy the Roostertail fall of '66 version and the version on the Orient footage and the studio version, I feel like the song is too slow and straight forward for Flo, who apparently liked to ad lib. This was not an ad lib song where she could really put her Flo stamp on it. Of course this is just my opinion. As I said before, the song with Flo was apparently a crowd pleaser which is why it stayed in the act for at least two years, so someone felt differently than I do about it. To me, Flo killed her verse on "Makes No Difference Now". I wish she had done the whole song. That was a ballad she could have sunk her teeth into. Something soulful and with some substance. When it came to the standards, had Motown given Flo something like some of the stuff Etta James recorded, I think she would've shined there also. Sadly her ABC sessions are the last of Flo's singing that we have and there is so much that mars it. Some of the songs are tailored to a Diana type voice, while some of the other ones were probably better suited to a time when Flo was in fine vocal shape. Yet even then there are some really nice ballad moments like "Walk On By", "Going Out of My Head" and "My Heart", and uptempo cuts like "Like You Babe", "Love Aint Love" and "Forever Faithful".

Had Flo and Mary been afforded the attention Diana received, I think the Supremes would have been an even better group, if you can imagine that.

With hindsight, Jean may not have been the best replacement for Diana. Admittedly, the group does seem to have lost a lot of it's spark that was present when Diana was there. Now in that regard I'm talking about the totality of the Supremes experience, and the Supremes were not just a vocal group but also a visual group. Jean didn't always fit into the vision part. But vocally, OMG, this lady was a dynamo. She had that Supreme quality of being able to sing pretty much anything. I think Jean possessed most of the same qualities that Diana did vocally, except where Diana's voice was limited a bit in reaching for notes or blasting through a climax, Jean's voice was very capable. Jean could mesmerize by not doing too much. I love her on "If My Friends Could See Me Now" from the Sullivan show. Her voice is immediately captivating. But then she could soar like she does on "This Is the Story". She is absolutely one of the greatest to ever do it, but does not get the recognition she deserves.

All the ladies mentioned above are the reason I'm a Supremes fan. Cindy, Lynda, Scherrie and Susaye are all talented, wonderful women who deserve all the recognition they get- and more- for helping to contribute to the legacy of the Supremes. But they are enhancements to an already perfect meal for me.

[floyjoy678]

Ran I pretty much have the same view as you when it comes down to the original trio. I always think of the possibilities had Flo recieved the same amount of time vocal training as Diana and Mary had. Flo was always my favorite because there was a down to earth quality to her and as jim said, even when she was all glammed up you could still see she was still just good ole Flo. As someone who is down to earth and also suffered from alcoholism in the past, I connect with Flo more so than anyone else in the group and I think that's why she was such a fan favorite: she was relatable. Diana I love because she just takes you into this fantasy realm whether its listening to her or watching her. She was corny but cute and it worked very well for her. As others have said, she could take any song and put some real emotion into it. That's where I think the actress in her was born, through her singing. I also love quirky people and Diana is as quirky as it can get. Mary was definitely the pretty one out of all of them and I think she could have easily done well as a model. I'm not a fan of her voice on it's own but I think she was great when it came to harmonizing, and as Diana once said: Mary's voice was the glue between her voice and Flo's. I will say Mary's "Don't Let My Teardrops Bother You" is definitely in my top favorite songs from the 70s group.

Cindy brought a more glamorous, grown up quality to the group. It really felt like once she came in, the Supremes went from girls to ladies. She was perfect with Mary visually. The two of them were always in sync with the choreography, something that Flo often struggled with [[but in a cute way). I remember an ex partner of mine said "It just seems like Cindy is such a sweetheart who everyone loves" and I think he hit the nail on the head with that comment.

Jean. Hmmm. Jean, Jean, Jean. I love her voice. She is one of the best vocalists ever in my opinion. Visually I just dont think she had any warmth to her. Even when she was smiling, it just seemed like it was forced and she was miserable behind that smile. At least when things were going bad with the original trio, you couldn't tell because they genuinely looked happy to be on stage and performing. She really could have been a superstar with that voice but she just didn't have the personality to go with it.

Lynda I really wish had stayed in the group longer than she did. That was really a missed opportunity with her. She was fiery and feisty. She brought back the strong soprano sound back into the group that was missing since Flo left. She reminded me a lot of Flo with her stage presence. She had a killer smile and always looked like she was having a blast.

Scherrie, another missed opportunity. While she was in the group long enough, she unfortunately came in when Pedro and Mary were trying to make it the Mary Wilson show. She should have sung more leads and been featured more. She had such a strong presence and charisma when performing. One thing that did annoy me with her though is she would tend to over vocalize songs like Stoned Love live to the point where I couldn't even tell what words she was singing. Scherrie, along with Flo, I feel would have done very well on broadway. She also did very well with the glamour.

Susaye should have been a solo act. Her voice and stage presence reminds me of Diana's. I feel like it was a waste of time for her to be in the Supremes because again it was all about Mary by that point. Susaye was too big for a group in terms of her voice and personality. I think she could have been the next Diana Ross had Motown been behind her 100 percent.

[sup_fan]

very interesting assessments. like hearing your thoughts

To me, Cindy was the ideal backing vocalist. her tone just perfectly blends in with each grouping she was with - DMC, JMC, SMC. Frankly i think she worked best in the 70s. not only because she was given a bit more spotlight to work with, but she's a second soprano and J and S were better able to hit the high notes. Diana isn't a 1st soprano either. so during the DMC lineup, you lacked someone that could really hit the high ones.

Flo has probably the most mixed bag of vocals IMO. some are just stellar - like Good News. some are frankly mis-assigned. Like Save Me A Star. Some are poorly produced and as a result she comes across weaker than she should - People, O Holy Night. The later two are produced at such a funeral dirge pace that it's no wonder she struggles with keeping on pitch. Had the instrumental tracks been given just a little more pace and Flo been given a little more room to do her own thing, they could have been excellent

[RanRan79]

Flo was always my favorite because there was a down to earth quality to her and as jim said, even when she was all glammed up you could still see she was still just good ole Flo.

Diana I love because she just takes you into this fantasy realm whether its listening to her or watching her. She was corny but cute and it worked very well for her. As others have said, she could take any song and put some real emotion into it. That's where I think the actress in her was born, through her singing.

Floy, as personalities, yes, Flo was the one I gravitated to. Taking into account all that has been said and written about her- since I'll never have the pleasure of knowing her personally- I feel like she's the Supreme who would've best fit in with me. She could be fun but she also didn't take no shit, and that's definitely me. I also love that she wasn't willing to just roll over and let Gordy- and on a different tip, Diana- treat her any ole way and she just shut up, sing and take it. I also love her fighting spirit. When stuff came at her, whether it's Motown shenanigans, the lawyer stealing her money, Motown owing her money, welfare, depression, alcoholism, she always found a way to fight back. This idea of a Flo Ballard who just crawled away and licked her wounds until her heart stopped working is not the reality. She had a lot of fight left. Only something she couldn't control like a heart issue could take her out.

I also agree about Diana, especially the part about the actress in her being born in her singing. I think that is 1000 percent accurate. What I also love about Ross the person is her go getter attitude. That lady was ambitious at a time when particularly Black women were often discouraged from lofty ambitions. She said screw that, she would be a success no matter what. And here we are still talking about her. The woman is bad.

[jim aka jtigre99]

Very interesting perspectives. I appreciate everyone's opinions, especially the ones who don't mirror mine as everyone has different likes and perspectives. I am just wondering what thoughts are on Jean either staying as Diana Ross' replacement or not. Do you think Motown should have stayed with her and pushed her or do you think that Syreeta was the right or Wright Choice[[Motown could have used that play on her name if they decided to go with her). If they had replaced Jean with Syreeta, do you think Motown would have been more in their corner? Do you think Cindy and Mary would have felt loyalty or would they be disgruntled employees? What do you think would have happened to the recordings done on Jean? Do you think Motown would have sat on them? Do you think they would have just replaced Jean's voice on those songs or look for other material? I really enjoyed reading your thoughts and perspectives.

[sup_fan]

Very interesting perspectives. I appreciate everyone's opinions, especially the ones who don't mirror mine as everyone has different likes and perspectives. I am just wondering what thoughts are on Jean either staying as Diana Ross' replacement or not. Do you think Motown should have stayed with her and pushed her or do you think that Syreeta was the right or Wright Choice[[Motown could have used that play on her name if they decided to go with her). If they had replaced Jean with Syreeta, do you think Motown would have been more in their corner? Do you think Cindy and Mary would have felt loyalty or would they be disgruntled employees? What do you think would have happened to the recordings done on Jean? Do you think Motown would have sat on them? Do you think they would have just replaced Jean's voice on those songs or look for other material? I really enjoyed reading your thoughts and perspectives.

as i've learned more from fans and Expanded Editions and in researching the releases, I'm less convinced that Motown wasn't in their corner in 1970. and please note i'm specifically stating "1970" and not "70s"

The new supremes were everywhere that year - big tours all over the country, lots of tv appearances, magazine articles.

big releases too: 3 lps, 4 singles. And those lps were expensive. One had a tear-away poster and the other 2 were gatefolds with intricate die-cuts in the cover.

6 new gowns added to the wardrobe


so there was a lot going on in that year. I think my interpretation isn't that motown abandoned the group but that the old motown philosophy of inundating the market with tons and tons of material was out dated and worked against the group.

Future marketing dollars and support were [[most likely) based off of forecasted sales. And forecasts are built off of current year. The singles were hot and doing well - Stoned Love's chart run [[although not hitting #1) was as long as any prior single except LD and SWBT.

but the albums really started to stumble. Right On did a solid showing but even it's overall chart run wasn't nearly as long as Diana's solo release. NW was a big disappointment. as were the duets.

Motown wasn't really big on lps at the time other than to serve as a rereleasing of the singles [[plus filler) and to market the acts with clever cover graphics. they certainly weren't often used as artistic statements. and the market was wanting that.