The Supremes - Mary, Scherrie & Susaye Live @ The Roostertail Detroit!

[detmotownguy]

She was the one who wrote 2 successful books.

[marv2]

She was the one who wrote 2 successful books.

She's the one that has done a number of stage plays and musicals. She keeps hers and the Supremes legacy alive more than anyone I can think of. Kick those legs up pretty high on "Dancing With the Stars" too! LOL! Mary's career has been so long and so varied that it could days to discuss the highlights here.

Someone just emailed me to say that Mary Wilson is putting together a all Girls Group telethon to benefit victims of COVID-19, etc.

[detmotownguy]

[QUOTE=sup_fan;574091]

i'm not read nearly as much about the history of Destiny's Child [[and i know some people on here hate them and B) but what you're describing is similar to what Randy points out in his B bio. Matthew Knowles DID have the foresight to allow each member some ability to develop their own skills and feel valued, while still never taking the eye off of B. after the earlier messes, one it was B, Kelly and Michelle, the group didn't really have the internal strife like the Supremes.

I completely agree that Berry was beyond tunnel-vision when it came to Diana. What's interesting is the the company understood the value of differentiation becuase they had zillions of sub-labels. the Motown label was the primary "home" label but they created others so that they could ensure sales and airplay coverage. if everything was Motown then there's be less. but they made Soul specifically to go into a harder r&b sound. plus all the others.

Berry was particular about the people he worked heavily with. he's credited Diana because she had the same unerring drive as he did. it seems that if people didn't have that matched level, he quickly grew disinterested. Also if they had any problems along the way, he seems to wipe his hands of them. I'm making the guess here but i think that's partially why he bailed on Martha. once she got into drugs and had her own struggles, he wasn't going to invest in her. Wanda never had a prayer either.

But they very well could [[and should) have groomed various female stars in different ways.

I understand a small co. being disinterested in employees associated with drugs. Berry did not possess the leadership skills to look beyond his one star.

[marv2]

[QUOTE=detmotownguy;574166]

I understand a small co. being disinterested in employees associated with drugs. Berry did not possess the leadership skills to look beyond his one star.

Barney Ales said he did drugs with Berry Gordy at one time. They did "pills". Anyone that made a public declaration about not associating with those that used drugs or don't do drugs are lying most of the time. Especially in the music business.

[gman]

They were NOT Fleetwood Mac....its rare 3 individual talents can have major success within the same group, and continue on for years nurturing both solo careers and group activity...

Plus, they were understandably unnerved by the oldies show where they were the star attraction, in NYC in the summer of '76, and got booed off stage at Madison Square Garden...in front of a VERY large audience....there were most likely more people at that ONE show than there were in attendance at a months worth of Vegas headlining. it was a very high profile gig. Even with DR, the group never performed at MSG....it may have been a great opportunity for grand exposure, but a very bad move to take a show built on disco-fied current releases to a oldies gig and think you can save the day with a train wreck/tornado paced hits medley.....God only knows how many ticket buyers didn't follow the group and due to lack of a top ten record for years didn't realize the group had continued recording and performing, and thought they disbanded....and the radio spot for the show aired every 30 minutes for weeks, with wild canned applause after the announcement of each individual act over the sound of one of [[or in some cases "the") each acts major hit... meanwhile playing BABY LOVE when mentioning excitedly "THE SUPREMES!" perhaps the greasers assumed Diana Ross took this gig on as a one off special appearance to perform in a major market with the Supremes? It may have been a lot wiser to use STONED LOVE as the radio spot…

[marv2]

They were NOT Fleetwood Mac....its rare 3 individual talents can have major success within the same group, and continue on for years nurturing both solo careers and group activity...

Plus, they were understandably unnerved by the oldies show where they were the star attraction, in NYC in the summer of '76, and got booed off stage at Madison Square Garden...in front of a VERY large audience....there were most likely more people at that ONE show than there were in attendance at a months worth of Vegas headlining. it was a very high profile gig. Even with DR, the group never performed at MSG....it may have been a great opportunity for grand exposure, but a very bad move to take a show built on disco-fied current releases to a oldies gig and think you can save the day with a train wreck/tornado paced hits medley.....God only knows how many ticket buyers didn't follow the group and due to lack of a top ten record for years didn't realize the group had continued recording and performing, and thought they disbanded....and the radio spot for the show aired every 30 minutes for weeks, with wild canned applause after the announcement of each individual act over the sound of one of [[or in some cases "the") each acts major hit... meanwhile playing BABY LOVE when mentioning excitedly "THE SUPREMES!" perhaps the greasers assumed Diana Ross took this gig on as a one off special appearance to perform in a major market with the Supremes? It may have been a lot wiser to use STONED LOVE as the radio spot…

The MSG gig you are referring to was Richard Nader's Rock and Roll Oldies Show. It occurred in March 1977. We pleaded with them not to do it as the Supremes were still a current act with current music on the market. They needed the money. Half of the biker and biker chick crowd [[mostly from Jersey) booed and walked out during their part of the show. Those that remained cheered the Supremes very loudly. Still it was a poor choice of appearances for the group.

[marv2]

They were NOT Fleetwood Mac....its rare 3 individual talents can have major success within the same group, and continue on for years nurturing both solo careers and group activity...

Plus, they were understandably unnerved by the oldies show where they were the star attraction, in NYC in the summer of '76, and got booed off stage at Madison Square Garden...in front of a VERY large audience....there were most likely more people at that ONE show than there were in attendance at a months worth of Vegas headlining. it was a very high profile gig. Even with DR, the group never performed at MSG....it may have been a great opportunity for grand exposure, but a very bad move to take a show built on disco-fied current releases to a oldies gig and think you can save the day with a train wreck/tornado paced hits medley.....God only knows how many ticket buyers didn't follow the group and due to lack of a top ten record for years didn't realize the group had continued recording and performing, and thought they disbanded....and the radio spot for the show aired every 30 minutes for weeks, with wild canned applause after the announcement of each individual act over the sound of one of [[or in some cases "the") each acts major hit... meanwhile playing BABY LOVE when mentioning excitedly "THE SUPREMES!" perhaps the greasers assumed Diana Ross took this gig on as a one off special appearance to perform in a major market with the Supremes? It may have been a lot wiser to use STONED LOVE as the radio spot…

It really is long ago history now just like when Diana Ross was booed off of the stage at the Air Jamaica Music Festival in 2008. Some people just want to see and hear the oldies which is why Ross' audience would routinely walk out after the Supremes hits medley at Jones Beach to avoid the traffic. LOL!

[REDHOT]

The Supremes Mary Wilson Cindy Birdsong and Susaye Greene were INCREDIBLE.The Best.

[monicarivers]

Would it be so difficult for marv2/luke/detmotowmguy or DETROITLIVES313 to address the fact that he was kicked out of a Diana Ross concert in Denver and has held a grudge against her ever since or that Mary Wilson wants nothing to do with him? I’m not sure what the delay is. And for others in this forum to think he’s some great archivist by reposting.every.single.Eric Iversen upload is so lame. Mary thinks this man is a loony toon - maybe it’s time to start ignoring his posts in this “sub forum”. If I knew someone This creepy was online acting like my personal assistant and cheerleader, I’d contact the moderator or the police!

[sup_fan]

Would it be so difficult for marv2/luke/detmotowmguy or DETROITLIVES313 to address the fact that he was kicked out of a Diana Ross concert in Denver and has held a grudge against her ever since or that Mary Wilson wants nothing to do with him? I’m not sure what the delay is. And for others in this forum to think he’s some great archivist by reposting.every.single.Eric Iversen upload is so lame. Mary thinks this man is a loony toon - maybe it’s time to start ignoring his posts in this “sub forum”. If I knew someone This creepy was online acting like my personal assistant and cheerleader, I’d contact the moderator or the police!

i've blocked marv on here and frankly, its been wonderful. no hassle or nonsense. yes there were times he would post an interest story or pic but not enough to offset the endless bile and hatred. makes things much more pleasant here

[monicarivers]

i've blocked marv on here and frankly, its been wonderful. no hassle or nonsense. yes there were times he would post an interest story or pic but not enough to offset the endless bile and hatred. makes things much more pleasant here

I finally bit the bullet and did the same, as well as for his other screen names [[luke, detmotownguy). Expecting a change of behavior, any remorse, or owning up to things just ain’t gonna happen. We know how Mary feels and I guess that’s some level of acknowledgement of how far he’s taken things beyond our little online gatherings!

[TheMotownManiac]

It really is long ago history now just like when Diana Ross was booed off of the stage at the Air Jamaica Music Festival in 2008. Some people just want to see and hear the oldies which is why Ross' audience would routinely walk out after the Supremes hits medley at Jones Beach to avoid the traffic. LOL!

”MARV’S NOSE TO MOUTH - MARV’S NOSE TO MOUTH: I’m growing at a very fast rate - quick! Swallow some truth serum at once!”

Diana was NOT booed off the stage in Jamaica and you know the real story so why lie or mislead anyone? The crowd in the back booed because the jumbo screens weren’t on - their unhappiness had ZERO to do with her performance.

I saw DR at Jones Beach 3 times and never saw anyone leave after the Suoremes medley. Of course, I have many friends who attended all of her Jones Beach shows and no one ever mentioned such a thing. I will, HOWEVER, enquirer to be certain. How odd for you to suggest this happened at Jones Beach - why on earth would the Audience choose that venue to behave that way? What year[[s) specifically do you claim this occurred?

‘it’s odd that in NY of all places, where she broke the box office record at the legend dairy palace theater in 1976, I’m broke the box office record at radio city music Hall in 1984 less than a year after performing for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people for free in Central Park, and the only Show that RTL sold out until they began to offer seats with no site lines whatsoever and sold thousands of those.

how odd that just 25 miles from serial mammoth success for decades that Miss Ross would endure this aberrant behavior. I do not think this is true.

[sup_fan]

ok - back to MSS

after dinner last night was lounging in the pool and put the MS&S album on. damn is it good

and interestingly enough, in many posts over the years here we've talked about how the girls didn't really do a sufficient job of promoting the lp. sure they did their singles but then their tv and stage shows didn't bother with the material. but in listening to the album's 8 shows, they did at least 4 live. which isn't too bad

Driving Wheel & let yourself go were done on several tv shows and in their live shows
You are heart of me - always lip synced but on Udo Live, merv griffin and soul train
come into my life - soul train lip synced

did either of the last two make it into their stage shows? i've not heard them. did any other tracks from the lp get performed?

[sup_fan]

and figured i'd continue this topic by looking at the material from the other two Scherrie albums

The Supremes
He's my man - stage shows and on soul train, dinah, sammy davis show, tonight show
where is it i belong - dinah, soul train
this is why i believe - american bandstand, soul train, stage shows
early morning love - soul train, live stage shows, sammy davis show

oddly enough their second single [[where do i go from here) seems to be largely ignored. And none of the excellent Ivey woodford songs like Color My World

High Energy
I'm gonna let my heart - stage shows and quite a few tv show - Mike douglas, soul train, bandstand, merv griffin
High energy - stage shows
You're what's missing - stage shows, soul train, bandstand
don't let my teardrops bother you - mike douglas


so basically they were doing about half of their Scherrie albums live in some way or form. although several songs were done on tv, not sure they were ever added to the show

[reese]

and figured i'd continue this topic by looking at the material from the other two Scherrie albums

The Supremes
He's my man - stage shows and on soul train, dinah, sammy davis show, tonight show
where is it i belong - dinah, soul train
this is why i believe - american bandstand, soul train, stage shows
early morning love - soul train, live stage shows, sammy davis show

oddly enough their second single [[where do i go from here) seems to be largely ignored. And none of the excellent Ivey woodford songs like Color My World

High Energy
I'm gonna let my heart - stage shows and quite a few tv show - Mike douglas, soul train, bandstand, merv griffin
High energy - stage shows
You're what's missing - stage shows, soul train, bandstand
don't let my teardrops bother you - mike douglas


so basically they were doing about half of their Scherrie albums live in some way or form. although several songs were done on tv, not sure they were ever added to the show

They also did I'M GONNA LET MY HEART DO THE WALKING and YOU'RE WHAT'S MISSING IN MY LIFE on Dinah Shore. They were wearing the FUNNY GIRL costumes from TCB.

DON'T LET MY TEARDROPS BOTHER YOU was also done on an Easter Seals Telethon wearing the SOMEWHERE gown from TCB.

[midnightman]

Yup. MSS were three lead singers who acted as though they were now having a hard time playing their positions. Mary had sung backup in the Supremes forever. That had been her main role for more than a decade. Scherrie did her time with Glass House for a few years, and Susaye put in time in Wonderlove and the Raylettes, if I'm not mistaken. So none of them were strangers to navigating the background. All of a sudden there seemed to be this free for all onstage. Even when someone was singing lead, the backup started to sound like they were in lead position right along with it. Cindy would not have competed for a lead, and when she was with Mary and Scherrie the group was very well balanced, visually and vocally. Remove Cindy and replace with Susaye and now there's a brand new dynamic. None of the ladies are really in control since Pedro was basically running the show. Had someone with the know how to take a step back, assess and critique had handled the Supremes, MSS could have undergone a restructure that might have made them a concert draw again. As is they come across as vocally talented but also somebody's drunk aunties deciding to get together and pretend to be the Supremes at the family reunion. Not a good look.

It was just like what Marvin Gaye once described working with Diana: they were like kids fighting over the same cookie. If you're used to being a background singer and you join a female supergroup with the chance to branch out, it can be difficult especially when the one who was one of the original members and waited years to prove herself now wants to do leads too. Three headstrong women who all want to sing lead, it was gonna clash. This lineup only lasted a year for a reason!

[midnightman]

ok - back to MSS

after dinner last night was lounging in the pool and put the MS&S album on. damn is it good

and interestingly enough, in many posts over the years here we've talked about how the girls didn't really do a sufficient job of promoting the lp. sure they did their singles but then their tv and stage shows didn't bother with the material. but in listening to the album's 8 shows, they did at least 4 live. which isn't too bad

Driving Wheel & let yourself go were done on several tv shows and in their live shows
You are heart of me - always lip synced but on Udo Live, merv griffin and soul train
come into my life - soul train lip synced

did either of the last two make it into their stage shows? i've not heard them. did any other tracks from the lp get performed?

I blame Ewart Abner honestly. He could've definitely put some more muscle behind the Supremes especially with the "I'm Gonna Let My Heart" song. Disappointing to have a comeback single on your hands and it only peaks at number 40?!

[gman]

They also did I'M GONNA LET MY HEART DO THE WALKING and YOU'RE WHAT'S MISSING IN MY LIFE on Dinah Shore. They were wearing the FUNNY GIRL costumes from TCB.

DON'T LET MY TEARDROPS BOTHER YOU was also done on an Easter Seals Telethon wearing the SOMEWHERE gown from TCB.

I saw that Easter Seals performance...that performance is never mentioned...it was a Sunday afternoon if I am not mistaken, and I wasn't aware Cindy had left yet.

They also did Wonderama which I think may have been a NYC regional early Sunday morning kids show and not national….MSS....did lip-sync performances of You're My Driving Wheel, Let Yourself Go, You Are The Heart of Me and Come Into My Life. I recall the Red/Grey/White vertical stripe gowns for that one.

[RanRan79]

but look at to FLOs. Scherrie has been working with them since 89 or so. But she also does her own side projects. which is wonderful. had the Supremes stayed together, there's no reason they couldn't have also done some individual activities.

had another thought about the group's struggles in the 70s

Diana really transformed not only her sound and image but public perception too. At first she was, frankly, just like DRATS but by herself on stage. But then she took on a Hollywood personality. then she was a mother. Then a mature "woman of the 80s"

obviously i'm making some pretty broad sweeps here but i think you get the picture

frankly the supremes and also mary, never really progressed beyond simply being smiling girls in sequins. Again, very broad here. but hopefully you get the gist of what i'm saying. It's more than simply the sound of the music they're releasing - which they did evolve through a variety of different styles. and it's more than simply being gorgeous and glamorous.

Sure, Mary could've continued with the Supremes if she wanted to. Apparently she didn't want to, and IMO that's okay. Let's be real, keeping a group together is more than "okay girls, let's go sing". There's a lot of work involved, including the managing of egos, which apparently wasn't Mary's strong suit. I personally think her talent was big enough to step out on her own, unlike my views about, say, Otis Williams, whom I view as a Cindy Birdsong type. But even Cindy gave the group the finger and did her own thing at one point. Sometimes folks just want to move on and I would never begrudge Mary or any other Supreme that right. Why stay in something that makes you unhappy?

I agree about Diana's transformation. That earliest solo period was basically a Supremes-less DRATS experience, before transforming into a solid solo with Lady Sings The Blues and TMITM, and then exploding around "Love Hangover" as a bonafide superstar. The 80s definitely brought on another change. Of course eventually the criticism would become that she too would fail to reinvent herself when the time came.

But when it comes to the Supremes, I think they in many ways stepped their game up in the early 70s. There was now no longer a star attraction inside the star attraction. It was a new thing. New look. New sound. New vibe. Sometimes. That they were still doing MOR, even during the Scherrie years, that was just a bad move. All of that should've been eschewed when Ross left and Terrell stepped in. It was the 70s, time for a total revamp. I love the photo sessions of the 70s girls in a hip new wardrobe, or even the updated glam stuff, relevant to the times. Bad move recycling DRATS gowns. I think some of this stuff was a turnoff to the general public. When someone says "new" Supremes, that's what they expect to get. They didn't have to do anything as radical as Labelle, but they could've definitely used a lot more change than what eventually occurred. Jean brought a whole new dimension of possibilities. And with the 70s having some of the best-IMO-slow jams of all time, Mary's voice would've been a perfect fit for something slow and sexy. But Jean was being forced to sing "You're Nobody" and Mary "Can't Take My Eyes Off You" for the 12th year in a row.

[[Interesting note, I suspect that the reason the Three Degrees didn't fare as well in the States, despite being phenomenal vocalists and performers and having some killer cuts, is because they too could be very Vegasy and "old fashioned" at times, although personally I find their act to be a million times better than what the 70s Supremes were ever doing.)

I don't think the 70s Supremes were ever just smiling girls in sequins. I definitely think they came across as mature, sophisticated women. As for Mary, Mary did reinvent herself in the 80s as a Tina Turner like rocker. And then in the 90s she took on a more relevant vibe to the times. Unfortunately, Mary the rocker didn't work to anyone's taste, and by the time the 90s rolled around, the business was so far and away from legends of Mary's age, that she really didn't have much of a chance to garner any public spotlight for anybody to case about her transformation.

[RanRan79]

To view Mary as someone who has never evolved beyond standing in the footlights looking pretty in sequins isi extremely unfair. She may not be as high profile as Diana, but she has worked very in trying to make the world a better place as well as being a consummate performer, author, actress and humanitarian.

I think Sup is referring to her as a performer, not as a human being. That's how I took his post anyway.

[RanRan79]

i've blocked marv on here and frankly, its been wonderful. no hassle or nonsense. yes there were times he would post an interest story or pic but not enough to offset the endless bile and hatred. makes things much more pleasant here

I had Marv on block for a year or two at one time so I get it. He does the most and gets ridiculous. But at least 99 percent of his bile is directed at a woman who- I assume- does not post in this forum. He is not a bigger problem than the handful of screen names who apparently stalk him in this forum. That person you responded to has 255 posts. I guarantee you 200 of those contain the name Marv. That's more weird than anything Marv has ever done in the forum since I've been a member.

[RanRan79]

It was just like what Marvin Gaye once described working with Diana: they were like kids fighting over the same cookie. If you're used to being a background singer and you join a female supergroup with the chance to branch out, it can be difficult especially when the one who was one of the original members and waited years to prove herself now wants to do leads too. Three headstrong women who all want to sing lead, it was gonna clash. This lineup only lasted a year for a reason!

Exactly. MSS were a train wreck in the making. I'm not sure people really understand how valuable a Cindy Birdsong is. Interestingly, when Flo was in the group, Mary was the Cindy. She was the glue. She was the one that kept a balance between Flo and Diana, not just vocally, but personality wise. Flo and Diana both had egos. Mary obviously had one too [[I believe it's a prerequisite for becoming an entertainer, there's a certain amount of ego involved.), but it was understated and she was willing to do whatever just to keep the ship upright. Once Flo was gone and Cindy entered the picture, Mary suddenly moved into the Flo spot, while Cindy became the member that helped to strike a balance. Cindy continued in this role with Jean. When she was replaced with Lynda, I think the balance was noticeably off in every way. That's not to say that I back off my opinion that JML were a super group waiting to happen, but the fact that it fairly quickly imploded should have come as no surprise. Enter Cindy. She glues Mary and Scherrie very well. Exit Cindy, enter Susaye, and just like JML there's no longer a glue, a balancer. It's a free for all...all the way to the bargain basement of groups. Cindy definitely doesn't get the credit she deserves for her contributions to this group.

[monicarivers]

I had Marv on block for a year or two at one time so I get it. He does the most and gets ridiculous. But at least 99 percent of his bile is directed at a woman who- I assume- does not post in this forum. He is not a bigger problem than the handful of screen names who apparently stalk him in this forum. That person you responded to has 255 posts. I guarantee you 200 of those contain the name Marv. That's more weird than anything Marv has ever done in the forum since I've been a member.

Marv has been kicked out of a Diana Ross concert and Mary thinks he is a creepy stalker. He’s also wished bodily harm and death on Diana Ross. Way weirder than me calling him out on his sh*t. Spare us the high horse and put him back on block honey.

[monicarivers]

Additionally, marv2 also goes by “luke” and “detmotownguy”.

[florence]

Why does the Moderator allow people to operate multiple accounts?

[blackguy69]

No way to prove it’s the same person but the same can be said of others on this board

Why does the Moderator allow people to operate multiple accounts?

[sup_fan]

I think Sup is referring to her as a performer, not as a human being. That's how I took his post anyway.

thanks Ran

now i'm only going off of a handful of interviews that are still available today. but on many of the tv talk shows, well into the 70s Mary is still chatting about going shopping, giggling, tossing off canned PR responses. Not that she had to divulge her darkest secrets. but it seems that they were portraying themselves as very plastic at times.

[sup_fan]

I saw that Easter Seals performance...that performance is never mentioned...it was a Sunday afternoon if I am not mistaken, and I wasn't aware Cindy had left yet.

They also did Wonderama which I think may have been a NYC regional early Sunday morning kids show and not national….MSS....did lip-sync performances of You're My Driving Wheel, Let Yourself Go, You Are The Heart of Me and Come Into My Life. I recall the Red/Grey/White vertical stripe gowns for that one.

very cool!! especially the wonderama segment! sure wish one of you NYers had taped it lol

i've seen at least some pics [[maybe a clip - can't remember) of MSS in the velvet lowcut gowns [[from the Sammy show) and i think they're doing Walking and Missing. i believe it was a local Detroit show. so probably summer 76 when they were in town for the Roostertail

[monicarivers]

No way to prove it’s the same person but the same can be said of others on this board

IP addresses are a dead giveaway. I suspect people create multiple accounts so they can have “conversations” that move their preferred thread/topics to the top of the forum to deter from others.

[sup_fan]

IP addresses are a dead giveaway. I suspect people create multiple accounts so they can have “conversations” that move their preferred thread/topics to the top of the forum to deter from others.

exactly - i'm happy that there's a broad range of topics just with the Sup category. But as people have pointed out, seeing 15 threads to 15 early 90s video interviews with Mary on the same topic, gets a bit redundant

people don't scroll so if a topic is pushed below the fold of the page, it's sort of lost forever. sometimes they pop back up but usually that's the end of that discussion. sort of the same problem general Motown fans were having with all of the Sup and DR content.

personally i most enjoy discussing the historic professional elements of the girls. some of their personal info is intriguing but it's not like i consider any of them friends. and since they're all human and subject to all the good/bad that all people go through, i try to put out posts or threads on decisions and activities they were making in regards to their music

[monicarivers]

exactly - i'm happy that there's a broad range of topics just with the Sup category. But as people have pointed out, seeing 15 threads to 15 early 90s video interviews with Mary on the same topic, gets a bit redundant

people don't scroll so if a topic is pushed below the fold of the page, it's sort of lost forever. sometimes they pop back up but usually that's the end of that discussion. sort of the same problem general Motown fans were having with all of the Sup and DR content.

personally i most enjoy discussing the historic professional elements of the girls. some of their personal info is intriguing but it's not like i consider any of them friends. and since they're all human and subject to all the good/bad that all people go through, i try to put out posts or threads on decisions and activities they were making in regards to their music

I made a suggestion that we create a thread devoted to all of the content Eric Iversen is putting out on his YouTube channel - there is some really good stuff being uploaded, especially regarding the 70s Supremes. I agree with you though. I don’t really like having to sign in and see half a dozen threads focused on very random Mary-isms [[a toothpaste commercial where she does a voice over and how memorable it was to the three screennames of Eve...hard pass).