Why was 1965 so quiet for the Vandellas and Marvelettes?

[daviddesper]

This has probably been discussed on here before but if so I don't remember it. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't these two groups receive a lot less attention in 1965 than they did either before or after?

Dancing in the Street and Nowhere to Run were big in 1964, right? But nothing else until My Baby Loves Me, which was early 1966 I believe. Then of course there was a resurgence of sorts with I'm Ready for Love, Jimmy Mack, Honey Chile, etc.

Same for the Marvelettes, wasn't it? If they had any significant 1965 release I don't know what it was. [[Yes I realize that Don't Mess With Bill sort of straddled 1965 and 1966 but I consider it a 1966 song.) They were of course hot from 1962-64 and like Martha and her girls, they had some moderate success in 1967 and 1968.

Neither group had a studio album released in 1965 although as far as I know, the Supremes, Temps and Tops were all on fire that year. So am I imagining things or did these fine ladies get put on the back burner for an entire year? If so, why?

[marv2]

That's easy. The Supremes had 5 albums and 6 singles released in 1965 alone. Add to that the releases by Marvin Gaye, The Temptations and the Four Tops and you have your answer. Motown was still a small company in 1965 and could barely keep up with volume of the product by its very top artists.

[kenneth]

And I think too that the focus of Mr. Gordy‘s attention was of course on the Supremes and if they shared shelf space with product from other girls groups, the Supremes wouldn’t get as much attention. I certainly don’t think that was an accident. They kept the Vandellas and the Marvelettes in the singles market but didn’t release an album on either one of them for at least two years.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

A lack of material really. With HDH now mainly focused on a bunch of steady releases for the Supremes & The Four Tops, there wasn't much left over for groups like the Vandellas or Marvelettes.

At the start of 1964, neither the Tops or Supremes were important to the star writing team.

[Motown Eddie]

Dancing in the Street and Nowhere to Run were big in 1964, right? But nothing else until My Baby Loves Me, which was early 1966 I believe.

Excuse me but Martha & The Vandellas' "Nowhere To Run" came out in Feb. 1965 and was a 'Top Ten' hit for the group [[and they had the studio LP Dance Party in 1965 as well). But as others have posted, Motown placed it's focus on The Supremes, The Temptations & Four Tops as they emerged the the company's 'front line' acts during this time.

[Motown Eddie]

Also, Martha & The Vandellas followed "Nowhere To Run" with the double sided hit "You've Been In Love Too Long"/"Love [[Makes Me Do Foolish Things)" in July 65. Both sides made the Billboard R&B Top 30 [[and #36/#70 on the Pop charts). While we'll never know how much higher these songs would've charted if they were released separately, it does show that Martha & Co. were holding their own in 1965.

[daviddesper]

Motown Eddie:

Thanks for correcting me on those dates. Most of my post was from memory. But as I suspected, the previous posters pretty much confirmed what I was thinking but did not want to come right out and say.....that it was all about the Supremes during that time period as far as female artists were concerned.

[motony]

as previous mentioned 1965 WAS a big year for Martha & the Vandellas, Marvelettes had "I'll Keep Holding On" . Both of these groups were in heavy demand for LIVE engagements during 1965.

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

I'm glad others have put this issue in perspective by noting how it wasn't just the Supremes getting preferential treatment. That was the simplistic argument that was on autoplay for the longest time. Marv beat me to the punch in commenting on the Four Tops and Temptations as well as the smallness of Motown at the time. Motown had been trying to get that big breakthrough artist, especially once Mary Wells left.

All of a sudden, Brenda Holloway had her hit Every Little Bit Hurts, The Tops and Tempts broke through as well. We don't even need to go into the surprise wall-busting acceptance of the Supremes by the public; and the fervor for Where Did Our Love Go surprised EVERYONE. At the time the song was released, it was Brenda Holloway who was getting the promotion and the only reason Dick Clark took the Supremes for his road show.

Really, it was many things going on around that time and the sheer economics of where your limited resources were going to go. If you had only x amount of promotional dollars, would you ignore the groups that are suddenly hot and spend it equally amongst all the artists, risking missing out on the momentum of the artists that were kiling it on the charts?

And don't answer that question like a fan.

[Motown Eddie]

Really, it was many things going on around that time and the sheer economics of where your limited resources were going to go. If you had only x amount of promotional dollars, would you ignore the groups that are suddenly hot and spend it equally amongst all the artists, risking missing out on the momentum of the artists that were kiling it on the charts?

And don't answer that question like a fan.

If I ran a small independent record company, I would've done the same thing that Motown did and place most of the promotional muscle on the artists that were topping the charts.

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

If I ran a small independent record company, I would've done the same thing that Motown did and place most of the promotional muscle on the artists that were topping the charts.

I'll admit, for years, I thought like a fan. I thought, why didn't Motown do this, why didn't they do that? Why didn't they push more of their groups? But age really is an incredible thing. You live and you learn. The more I live, the more I realize I've been looking at Motown through a pair of binoculars but through the wrong end. I've known Motown as this HUGE, successful company that turned everything they touched into instant gold.

Years of reading things here and there showed me that Motown was still a small independent company. Even in '65, they were only beginning to gain a bit of traction as far as becoming a household name, or a "brand" as everyone says now. There was an interview with Tony Martin, I think, where he was on The Tonight Show talking up with being signed with Motown. I guess Johnny thought it was funny- what's a Motown? So Motown didn't have the sheer clout they would amass even just a year or two later. Motown had money, but they didn't have it like Atlantic or RCA or one of those majors.

So, now I see why Motown signed people like Tommy Good, The Headliners, Little Lisa, The Monitors, The Elgins, Brenda- Motown was striking out in all directions trying to find the artist[[s) who would break out huge to a mainstream artist. One song, a fluke, changed ALL of Motown's plans in a huge hurry. So now that I'm older and know that you better put your dollars where they'll earn the most, I totally get the Motown Trajectory Story.

[daviddesper]

Interesting how we can all perceive things differently. Back in the day, as a teenager discovering his musical tastes, I thought Motown was HUGE. That each and every artist was a major star and that they must have the biggest company out there. Yes I would see Atlantic and Capitol and the rest of them on labels, but to me back then Motown was IT.

Then I drifted away from the label probably starting in the mid 70s. I didn't fully process it at the time but I guess the move to LA broke up the family that I had come to know and love and as musical directions changed, the label as a whole just did not appeal to me.

But the CD re-issue era as i call it has brought back soooooooooo many memories and if anything has convinced me that I was right in the first place....that Motown WAS indeed the biggest and baddest of them all. These different anthologies that have come out have left me at times just mesmerized by the thoughts of how much time these people spent in the studio, all the incredible writers they had, and the sheer volume of material they put out astounds me. For example, the idea that artists such as The Velvelettes, The Elgins, and Brenda Holloway just to name a few, recorded enough material to fill a double CD set, despite the fact that they would be forgotten names to most of today's listeners, is just astounding.

I actually got to visit the Motown studio about 10 years ago and you would think that would have convinced me that yes indeed, this was a small operation compared to others of the day. But if anything being there impressed me even more in terms of how hard they must have worked and how dedicated the entire Motown family must have been to their craft.

So I guess I am saying that I have come full circle from my wide-eyed teenage years and once again think of Motown as being the biggest and best of them all, even if I did drift away there for about 20 years.

[midnightman]

Nowhere to Run was released in 1965 lol

It's actually simple why: Marvin Gaye, the Temptations, the Four Tops and the Supremes [[and to a lesser but still substantial degree, the Miracles) were the best-sellers [[and symbols) of the label so that left Martha and the Vandellas, the Marvelettes and even "Little" Stevie Wonder [[up until the end of '65 when he released "Uptight") out.

The Marvelettes made a comeback with "Don't Mess With Bill" at the end of the year though. The Marvelettes were struggling in 65 too. Georgeanna Tillman left that year to deal with her sickle cell anemia [[she would die less than 15 years later from it).

Then Wanda got married to Bobby Rogers and was starting to lose her way via alcoholism and pills. It took Smokey Robinson to bring them back.

But both the Marvelettes and MR&TV's held on for as long as they can [[the Marvelettes until 1968 and MR&TV's until 1970). Besides from the Velvelettes, who never really got off the ground unfortunately, how many labels you know managed to have THREE superstar girl groups at ONE TIME? Don't worry, I'll wait lol

[tmd]

Your questions was discussed in the terrific Come And Get These Memories by the Holland Brothers.

We focused on the Vandellas up to 64 but when the Supremes hit and the Four Tops came on board we did not have anything for the Vandellas, and the Hollands were disappointed because they were just as good as the Supremes.