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    Question Songs written by Florence Ballard?

    Hi.. first post here.

    recently i read the book by Peter Benjaminson 'The Lost Supreme' and on page 88 there's a section about Flo writing some material for the Supremes and Berry Gordy rejecting her material - saying [[paraphrasing) "Hm, that ain't nothing"

    have any songs panned by Florence ever surfaced, even lyrics or pages with scribbled lyrics?
    Last edited by supreme; 04-06-2020 at 02:59 PM. Reason: grammar error

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    Quote Originally Posted by supreme View Post
    Hi.. first post here.

    recently i read the book by Peter Benjaminson 'The Lost Supreme' and on page 88 there's a section about Flo writing some material for the Supremes and Berry Gordy rejecting her material - saying [[paraphrasing) "Hm, that ain't nothing"

    have any songs panned by Florence ever surfaced, even lyrics or pages with scribbled lyrics?
    Hi Supreme, and welcome! Do you have the stapled-booklet version of the book or a later [[fuller) copy? I remember reading that as well but I don't know if Florence was able to have any of her songwriting transcribed; it will be interesting to see if any of the other members have more information on this.

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    hi and welcome! glad you've joined the forum.

    I've never really heard of any of the girls doing much song writing during their Sup days. while of course it's certainly possible, i think Peter is the only source that mentions it. could be a case of misaligned facts or memories of events fading or distorting through the years. not saying it isn't true but typically i've found that if you read all of the various versions and stories out there and then merge them together, you tend to get an accurate view of things.

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    In reading that page Peter stated that flo quoted the fact that she and berry didn't click and it should be obvious why that was so. In fact I dont know of any female artist beside gladys Horton playboy or brenda Holloway bah bah bah and myb spinning wheel or wrote songs nor if berry would allow for such look how marvin and stevie had t fight t get their song out in 71.

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    In James Haskins' Diana bio I'M GONNA MAKE YOU LOVE ME, he wrote that the girls tried writing their own songs but weren't good at it. I haven't read that book in years but I don't remember him giving a source for that info. Plus there were other inaccuracies [[like A BIT OF LIVERPOOL being recorded live at a Detroit club), so I have no idea whether or not this is true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    Hi Supreme, and welcome! Do you have the stapled-booklet version of the book or a later [[fuller) copy? I remember reading that as well but I don't know if Florence was able to have any of her songwriting transcribed; it will be interesting to see if any of the other members have more information on this.
    I was reading the amazon digital version - it was around 330 pages, so i would assume it was the larger version.

    thank you for the welcome too

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    Mr. Gordy also discouraged the Temptations from writing songs for the group. He was almost violently opposed to artists holding publishing rights to songs too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Mr. Gordy also discouraged the Temptations from writing songs for the group. He was almost violently opposed to artists holding publishing rights to songs too.
    It seemed that Gordy always wanted a writing credit or some kind of obsessive control over what an artist was putting out.

    It is great we have all this excellent music, but it would have been interesting to see what the Supremes or the Temptations had come up with as an independent unit.

    i don't see why Gordy couldn't compromise and allow The Supremes or etc to include a self written song on every album?

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    Quote Originally Posted by supreme View Post
    It seemed that Gordy always wanted a writing credit or some kind of obsessive control over what an artist was putting out.

    It is great we have all this excellent music, but it would have been interesting to see what the Supremes or the Temptations had come up with as an independent unit.

    i don't see why Gordy couldn't compromise and allow The Supremes or etc to include a self written song on every album?
    Who knows?! It certainly would not have harmed any of the groups for Gordy to have done so. My guess? Something along the lines of megalomania?

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    Quote Originally Posted by supreme View Post
    It seemed that Gordy always wanted a writing credit or some kind of obsessive control over what an artist was putting out.

    It is great we have all this excellent music, but it would have been interesting to see what the Supremes or the Temptations had come up with as an independent unit.

    i don't see why Gordy couldn't compromise and allow The Supremes or etc to include a self written song on every album?
    That practice continued all the way through to the end of the Supremes when Susaye Greene wanted to write for the group, she was denied.

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    Quote Originally Posted by supreme View Post
    Hi.. first post here.

    recently i read the book by Peter Benjaminson 'The Lost Supreme' and on page 88 there's a section about Flo writing some material for the Supremes and Berry Gordy rejecting her material - saying [[paraphrasing) "Hm, that ain't nothing"

    have any songs panned by Florence ever surfaced, even lyrics or pages with scribbled lyrics?
    Not that I'm aware of. I believe in the book she is quoted as saying that Diana and Mary thought the song was pretty good but Gordy thumbs it down. One could make the argument that he was in a better position to critique such a thing. On the other hand, it's not like all his compositions were soul shaking masterpieces. "Buttered Popcorn" anyone?

    Would've been nice if Flo had kept a copy of her song. It would've been interesting to know what she wrote about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    In James Haskins' Diana bio I'M GONNA MAKE YOU LOVE ME, he wrote that the girls tried writing their own songs but weren't good at it. I haven't read that book in years but I don't remember him giving a source for that info. Plus there were other inaccuracies [[like A BIT OF LIVERPOOL being recorded live at a Detroit club), so I have no idea whether or not this is true.
    Wow, I read that book eons ago. Forgot all about it.

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    I found some info about songs that Florence or the group wrote and i found that a track called Tears Of Sorrow was penned by Florence and Diana - it is mentioned in Diana Rosses memoir too. a guy called Rich Morrison - the pseudonym of a Richard Morris that worked as a songwriter at Motown [[?)

    weird he helped them write a song before they joined Motown...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tears_of_Sorrow
    Last edited by supreme; 04-10-2020 at 08:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by supreme View Post
    I found some info about songs that Florence or the group wrote and i found that a track called Tears Of Sorrow was penned by Florence and Diana - it is mentioned in Diana Rosses memoir too. a guy called Rich Morrison - the pseudonym of a Richard Morris that worked as a songwriter at Motown [[?)

    weird he helped them write a song before they joined Motown...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tears_of_Sorrow
    According to Mary, the Primettes met Richard through their guitarist Marv Tarplin and he encouraged them to come to Motown, even running their audition with the company. When Berry didn't sign them, Richard asked if he could still work with them on the side and he ended up taking them to Lupine.

    As you said, Diana mentioned that the girls wrote TEARS OF SORROW, which was their release on Lupine. Unfortunately, if they did write it, the copyright only credits Richard Morris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    According to Mary, the Primettes met Richard through their guitarist Marv Tarplin and he encouraged them to come to Motown, even running their audition with the company. When Berry didn't sign them, Richard asked if he could still work with them on the side and he ended up taking them to Lupine.

    As you said, Diana mentioned that the girls wrote TEARS OF SORROW, which was their release on Lupine. Unfortunately, if they did write it, the copyright only credits Richard Morris.
    Not sure if this was the first time it was corrected, but if I'm not mistaken in the liner notes of the Lost and Found set, the credit has been corrected to include the ladies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Not sure if this was the first time it was corrected, but if I'm not mistaken in the liner notes of the Lost and Found set, the credit has been corrected to include the ladies.
    Maybe for later pressings [[perhaps the vinyl?) but my copy of L&F credits Morris.

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    I think we can all be 99.9% sure the girls wrote it as there's no reason for anyone to lie about it and it was stated by Diana Ross in her memoir [[she even claims to fondly remember the words)

    Tears Of Sorrow is a really nice little song - it is a germ of something that would've grown into something great had the girls continued writing songs as a group or partnership.

    Also...

    that Florence Ballard album that was put out on 2002 has a few songs on it that have no publishing credits and unknown songwriters... could it be possible Florence penned those?

    the ones with no publishing credit or writer are;

    - Like You Babe
    - Stay In Love
    - My Heart

    my hypothesis for Flo writing those three tracks is the fact nobody else used the lyrics and melody after the album was shelved. It would make sense that the songwriters sold the songs and lyrics onto a different act to record - those three specific uncredited songs were not recorded by anybody else and lack a publisher.
    Last edited by supreme; 04-11-2020 at 03:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by supreme View Post
    that Florence Ballard album that was put out on 2002 has a few songs on it that have no publishing credits and unknown songwriters... could it be possible Florence penned those?

    the ones with no publishing credit or writer are;

    - Like You Babe
    - Stay In Love
    - My Heart

    my hypothesis for Flo writing those three tracks is the fact nobody else used the lyrics and melody after the album was shelved. It would make sense that the songwriters sold the songs and lyrics onto a different act to record - those three specific uncredited songs were not recorded by anybody else and lack a publisher.
    LIKE YOU BABE does have writer/publisher credits:

    Written by Thomas/Harold/Thyandic. Published by Gaucho.

    That same cd also lists HEAVENLY FATHER as having an unknown writer/publisher. But on a recent Aretha release, Atlantic credited the song to Edna McGriff.
    Last edited by reese; 04-11-2020 at 04:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Maybe for later pressings [[perhaps the vinyl?) but my copy of L&F credits Morris.
    I have the cd set and thought I had seen the credit corrected there. I also think I saw it credited that way on the DFTMC site, but checking again it only lists Morris. I'm almost positive I saw it on DFTMC. I wonder what happened?

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    "My Heart" was also covered by Linda Jones and the credited writer is Eddie Jones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    LIKE YOU BABE does have writer/publisher credits:

    Written by Thomas/Harold/Thyandic. Published by Gaucho.

    That same cd also lists HEAVENLY FATHER as having an unknown writer/publisher. But on a recent Aretha release, Atlantic credited the song to Edna McGriff.
    AH. i was using discogs as my source of information. thank you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I have the cd set and thought I had seen the credit corrected there. I also think I saw it credited that way on the DFTMC site, but checking again it only lists Morris. I'm almost positive I saw it on DFTMC. I wonder what happened?
    I have no idea. The only place I ever read that it was a Primettes composition was in Diana's book. It's a bit surprising that Mary didn't mention the same in her book. She wrote quite a few pages about their time with Morris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by supreme View Post

    Also...

    that Florence Ballard album that was put out on 2002 has a few songs on it that have no publishing credits and unknown songwriters... could it be possible Florence penned those?

    the ones with no publishing credit or writer are;

    - Like You Babe
    - Stay In Love
    - My Heart

    my hypothesis for Flo writing those three tracks is the fact nobody else used the lyrics and melody after the album was shelved. It would make sense that the songwriters sold the songs and lyrics onto a different act to record - those three specific uncredited songs were not recorded by anybody else and lack a publisher.
    Ahh....the birth of a new rumor that will eventually be repeated as fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by khansperac View Post
    Ahh....the birth of a new rumor that will eventually be repeated as fact.
    I don't think so, unless people choose to avoid reading the responses to what i said.

    I only theorised because the CD release had no credits for those three songs - members here have solved the credits that were missing which now nullifies my theory lol

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