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  1. #1

    Another Someday We'll Be Together Legendary Tale

    Copied and pasted the following from an old thread that does not need to be revisited. But I'm interested in your thoughts about something. First, here's a bit of the convo that took place regarding the tale of Johnny Bristol coaching Diana through "Someday" (Reese's original is not in bold, I did that for emphasis):

    Quote Originally Posted by milven View Post
    Diana in this alternate version is not good at all. How real is the story of Johnny coaching her or boosting her on? I hear him on this version too and it didn't work.
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    I never heard anyone dispute Johnny's story that he went into another booth and sort of pushed Diana along as she was getting tired. But his "boosts" on this alternate version are the very same ones that are on the hit single so maybe he didn't have to do it that much. Or at least any of his alternate versions have yet to surface.

    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    It is true about Johnny Bristol. He, Mary Wilson ,his daughter Karla and even Diana Ross herself all confirmed that. He says "sing it pretty", "do you mean it honey", "say it baby, say it", "oh yes now baby", "sing it" . I highly doubt those were left on a track that was originally recorded for Junior Walker! LOL! When he went into studio with Diane, he coached and prodded her through the song, something most good background singers do in Gospel and R&B. They push the lead singer, encourage them, make them "feel it".
    My question is this: is it possible that the story is true and we hear Johnny prodding her along on the alternate Diana vocal (which I've always assumed was the vocal recorded before the hit version), and then once she had it, there was a decision when the song was being mixed to mix in Johnny's original coaching from the first version? This would account for why Johnny's vocals are the exact same way in both versions. Thoughts?

  2. #2
    given that this story seems to be sort of universal, i'm assuming that the core of it is valid. as with probably every supremes story, there's probably a little blurring and revisionist history.

    my theory is:

    during 69 or so, she was recording a LOT of different material and styles. heck - there's probably tons that was erased or really only demo and therefore we've haven't/won't hear. Berry was thoroughly dedicated to having her emerge from the Supremes as a mega star and so they wanted to look at every possible approach. no stone left unturned, so to speak.

    Berry certainly encouraged experimentation from his producers so long as it produced a quality final product - stomping on boards, shaking chains, the accordion in Reflections, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if, prior to moving to an acetate, they explored all sorts of different styles and sounds, majority of when never emerged from the recording studio.

    anyway, Someday is a very different sound for the group. unlike anything they'd recorded before. her delivery is so restrained. she's using her lower register almost exclusively. So if Johnny felt she wasn't quite hitting it, then perhaps he did go into the booth and sing along. between the released version and the version on L&F, it's pretty clear the released on is much more warm, a bit more animated without going over the top. so maybe there was a take or two before L&F that was even less compelling.

  3. #3
    This is another story that seems to have been exaggerated a bit, even from some of the key players. Johnny's vocals are on the track. There are 5 Diana vocals with the identical adlibs from Johnny. If it's true that he did record with her, it's likely that he did it on the first take which we speculate is the one on Lost & Found. From studio chatter, she's upbeat and cooperative. You hear her coaching herself to sing with "sleepy eyes". That direction seems to have carried over to her TV performances of the song. The final take is the hit version that we all know. It's a bit annoying hearing people say things like "If you listen you can hear Johnny coaching her..." Keeping his voice on the record is creative choice and a good one for this song. (Stevie's, Blowin' In The Wind is another effective example). Like EVERY song Miss Ross recorded in the 60s it is one take all the way through, not pieced together from various performances. The only exception is Love Is Here And Now You're Gone where HDH chose her spoken passages from another take. (You can hear the deleted spoken parts on the HDH expanded). In the early 70s most producers like Ashford and Simpson used one vocal take all the way through as well. There are a few exceptions. Contrary to what some might have said, she's excellent and efficient in the studio which is why most of her producers have praised her. I promise I'm not trying to start a debate, just saying that having the opportunity to hear multiple studio takes and some of the patter between her and the producers gives one a new appreciation of her abilities.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by George Solomon View Post
    This is another story that seems to have been exaggerated a bit, even from some of the key players. Johnny's vocals are on the track. There are 5 Diana vocals with the identical adlibs from Johnny. If it's true that he did record with her, it's likely that he did it on the first take which we speculate is the one on Lost & Found. From studio chatter, she's upbeat and cooperative. You hear her coaching herself to sing with "sleepy eyes". That direction seems to have carried over to her TV performances of the song. The final take is the hit version that we all know. It's a bit annoying hearing people say things like "If you listen you can hear Johnny coaching her..." Keeping his voice on the record is creative choice and a good one for this song. (Stevie's, Blowin' In The Wind is another effective example). Like EVERY song Miss Ross recorded in the 60s it is one take all the way through, not pieced together from various performances. The only exception is Love Is Here And Now You're Gone where HDH chose her spoken passages from another take. (You can hear the deleted spoken parts on the HDH expanded). In the early 70s most producers like Ashford and Simpson used one vocal take all the way through as well. There are a few exceptions. Contrary to what some might have said, she's excellent and efficient in the studio which is why most of her producers have praised her. I promise I'm not trying to start a debate, just saying that having the opportunity to hear multiple studio takes and some of the patter between her and the producers gives one a new appreciation of her abilities.
    Awesome info!

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by George Solomon View Post
    This is another story that seems to have been exaggerated a bit, even from some of the key players. Johnny's vocals are on the track. There are 5 Diana vocals with the identical adlibs from Johnny. If it's true that he did record with her, it's likely that he did it on the first take which we speculate is the one on Lost & Found. From studio chatter, she's upbeat and cooperative. You hear her coaching herself to sing with "sleepy eyes". That direction seems to have carried over to her TV performances of the song. The final take is the hit version that we all know. It's a bit annoying hearing people say things like "If you listen you can hear Johnny coaching her..." Keeping his voice on the record is creative choice and a good one for this song. (Stevie's, Blowin' In The Wind is another effective example). Like EVERY song Miss Ross recorded in the 60s it is one take all the way through, not pieced together from various performances. The only exception is Love Is Here And Now You're Gone where HDH chose her spoken passages from another take. (You can hear the deleted spoken parts on the HDH expanded). In the early 70s most producers like Ashford and Simpson used one vocal take all the way through as well. There are a few exceptions. Contrary to what some might have said, she's excellent and efficient in the studio which is why most of her producers have praised her. I promise I'm not trying to start a debate, just saying that having the opportunity to hear multiple studio takes and some of the patter between her and the producers gives one a new appreciation of her abilities.
    Thank you, George!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by George Solomon View Post
    This is another story that seems to have been exaggerated a bit, even from some of the key players. Johnny's vocals are on the track. There are 5 Diana vocals with the identical adlibs from Johnny. If it's true that he did record with her, it's likely that he did it on the first take which we speculate is the one on Lost & Found. From studio chatter, she's upbeat and cooperative. You hear her coaching herself to sing with "sleepy eyes". That direction seems to have carried over to her TV performances of the song. The final take is the hit version that we all know. It's a bit annoying hearing people say things like "If you listen you can hear Johnny coaching her..." Keeping his voice on the record is creative choice and a good one for this song. (Stevie's, Blowin' In The Wind is another effective example). Like EVERY song Miss Ross recorded in the 60s it is one take all the way through, not pieced together from various performances. The only exception is Love Is Here And Now You're Gone where HDH chose her spoken passages from another take. (You can hear the deleted spoken parts on the HDH expanded). In the early 70s most producers like Ashford and Simpson used one vocal take all the way through as well. There are a few exceptions. Contrary to what some might have said, she's excellent and efficient in the studio which is why most of her producers have praised her. I promise I'm not trying to start a debate, just saying that having the opportunity to hear multiple studio takes and some of the patter between her and the producers gives one a new appreciation of her abilities.

    The voice of reason. Thanks George.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by George Solomon View Post
    . Like EVERY song Miss Ross recorded in the 60s it is one take all the way through, not pieced together from various performances. .
    Knowing this ups the pleasure one gets from listening to these song performances .

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by George Solomon View Post
    This is another story that seems to have been exaggerated a bit, even from some of the key players. Johnny's vocals are on the track. There are 5 Diana vocals with the identical adlibs from Johnny. If it's true that he did record with her, it's likely that he did it on the first take which we speculate is the one on Lost & Found. From studio chatter, she's upbeat and cooperative. You hear her coaching herself to sing with "sleepy eyes". That direction seems to have carried over to her TV performances of the song. The final take is the hit version that we all know. It's a bit annoying hearing people say things like "If you listen you can hear Johnny coaching her..." Keeping his voice on the record is creative choice and a good one for this song. (Stevie's, Blowin' In The Wind is another effective example). Like EVERY song Miss Ross recorded in the 60s it is one take all the way through, not pieced together from various performances. The only exception is Love Is Here And Now You're Gone where HDH chose her spoken passages from another take. (You can hear the deleted spoken parts on the HDH expanded). In the early 70s most producers like Ashford and Simpson used one vocal take all the way through as well. There are a few exceptions. Contrary to what some might have said, she's excellent and efficient in the studio which is why most of her producers have praised her. I promise I'm not trying to start a debate, just saying that having the opportunity to hear multiple studio takes and some of the patter between her and the producers gives one a new appreciation of her abilities.
    yes thank you George!!! always love reading your posts!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Copied and pasted the following from an old thread that does not need to be revisited. But I'm interested in your thoughts about something. First, here's a bit of the convo that took place regarding the tale of Johnny Bristol coaching Diana through "Someday" (Reese's original is not in bold, I did that for emphasis):








    My question is this: is it possible that the story is true and we hear Johnny prodding her along on the alternate Diana vocal (which I've always assumed was the vocal recorded before the hit version), and then once she had it, there was a decision when the song was being mixed to mix in Johnny's original coaching from the first version? This would account for why Johnny's vocals are the exact same way in both versions. Thoughts?
    I think they either kept Johnny's original vocals on the track or had him re-record them once they decided that his vocals were good for the song. He seemed to be able to easily replicate them as he did in a live version he sang with Mary Wilson on a PBS music special in 2003.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by George Solomon View Post
    This is another story that seems to have been exaggerated a bit, even from some of the key players. Johnny's vocals are on the track. There are 5 Diana vocals with the identical adlibs from Johnny. If it's true that he did record with her, it's likely that he did it on the first take which we speculate is the one on Lost & Found. From studio chatter, she's upbeat and cooperative. You hear her coaching herself to sing with "sleepy eyes". That direction seems to have carried over to her TV performances of the song. The final take is the hit version that we all know. It's a bit annoying hearing people say things like "If you listen you can hear Johnny coaching her..." Keeping his voice on the record is creative choice and a good one for this song. (Stevie's, Blowin' In The Wind is another effective example). Like EVERY song Miss Ross recorded in the 60s it is one take all the way through, not pieced together from various performances. The only exception is Love Is Here And Now You're Gone where HDH chose her spoken passages from another take. (You can hear the deleted spoken parts on the HDH expanded). In the early 70s most producers like Ashford and Simpson used one vocal take all the way through as well. There are a few exceptions. Contrary to what some might have said, she's excellent and efficient in the studio which is why most of her producers have praised her. I promise I'm not trying to start a debate, just saying that having the opportunity to hear multiple studio takes and some of the patter between her and the producers gives one a new appreciation of her abilities.
    Thank you, George, for this information.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by George Solomon View Post
    This is another story that seems to have been exaggerated a bit, even from some of the key players. Johnny's vocals are on the track. There are 5 Diana vocals with the identical adlibs from Johnny. If it's true that he did record with her, it's likely that he did it on the first take which we speculate is the one on Lost & Found. From studio chatter, she's upbeat and cooperative. You hear her coaching herself to sing with "sleepy eyes". That direction seems to have carried over to her TV performances of the song. The final take is the hit version that we all know. It's a bit annoying hearing people say things like "If you listen you can hear Johnny coaching her..." Keeping his voice on the record is creative choice and a good one for this song. (Stevie's, Blowin' In The Wind is another effective example). Like EVERY song Miss Ross recorded in the 60s it is one take all the way through, not pieced together from various performances. The only exception is Love Is Here And Now You're Gone where HDH chose her spoken passages from another take. (You can hear the deleted spoken parts on the HDH expanded). In the early 70s most producers like Ashford and Simpson used one vocal take all the way through as well. There are a few exceptions. Contrary to what some might have said, she's excellent and efficient in the studio which is why most of her producers have praised her. I promise I'm not trying to start a debate, just saying that having the opportunity to hear multiple studio takes and some of the patter between her and the producers gives one a new appreciation of her abilities.
    George thanks for chiming in! So would you say my theory of Johnny's "coaxing" from the very first version was added to- or mixed in, whatever you studio wiz's lingo is- into the subsequent versions, which is why they all sound the same?

    At least we now have something to look forward to for Cream Of the Crop expanded: additional versions of "Someday", with studio chatter we hope!

  12. #12
    regardless of what went into the final released version, who sang background, etc. it is a masterful and milestone historic performance....wistful, pensive....it was a massive seller, not only Diana's farewell, but it is also the final USA #1 song of the turbulent 60's...it is my fav DR era/ any era Supremes release single....Up The Ladder replaced it in my #1 spot for about 30 years...I played UTL almost every single day during that period...I can say it has now firmly settled in my #2 spot....

  13. #13
    So whats the "story" behind Johnny being on "These things Will Keep Me Loving You"...was he "coaxing" Diana then aswell.

  14. #14
    Johnny Bristol sang Someday We'll Be Together as a duet with Liz Lands for Ian Levine's Motorcity project. I believe it was released as a 12" single.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by mowsville View Post
    So whats the "story" behind Johnny being on "These things Will Keep Me Loving You"...was he "coaxing" Diana then aswell.
    In all probability, they were just trying to replicate the "Someday" formula from the similar arrangement down to Johnny's ad libs, IMHO.

  16. #16
    George's story sounds awesome. The story I usually kept hearing, and I think I saw it in some DR bios, that Diana had trouble with the song and Johnny just kept encouraging her. What we do know is that DR was never satisfied with a vocal take and would try it again and again until she did something that was very satisfactory to her. Always the perfectionist, that Miss Ross.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by sansradio View Post
    In all probability, they were just trying to replicate the "Someday" formula from the similar arrangement down to Johnny's ad libs, IMHO.
    That's what I figured also. Just checked DFTMC and the song was recorded and re-recorded in January and February 1970. I think "Someday" was still #1 during the first recording, or at least still in the top 10, so it's not a stretch to imagine that there was some thought about replicating the sound of such a huge record.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by George Solomon View Post
    This is another story that seems to have been exaggerated a bit, even from some of the key players. Johnny's vocals are on the track. There are 5 Diana vocals with the identical adlibs from Johnny. If it's true that he did record with her, it's likely that he did it on the first take which we speculate is the one on Lost & Found. From studio chatter, she's upbeat and cooperative. You hear her coaching herself to sing with "sleepy eyes". That direction seems to have carried over to her TV performances of the song. The final take is the hit version that we all know. It's a bit annoying hearing people say things like "If you listen you can hear Johnny coaching her..." Keeping his voice on the record is creative choice and a good one for this song. (Stevie's, Blowin' In The Wind is another effective example). Like EVERY song Miss Ross recorded in the 60s it is one take all the way through, not pieced together from various performances. The only exception is Love Is Here And Now You're Gone where HDH chose her spoken passages from another take. (You can hear the deleted spoken parts on the HDH expanded). In the early 70s most producers like Ashford and Simpson used one vocal take all the way through as well. There are a few exceptions. Contrary to what some might have said, she's excellent and efficient in the studio which is why most of her producers have praised her. I promise I'm not trying to start a debate, just saying that having the opportunity to hear multiple studio takes and some of the patter between her and the producers gives one a new appreciation of her abilities.
    'Contrary to what some might have said, she's excellent and efficient in the studio which is why most of her producers have praised her'. Thanks as always, George. Got that, polluters? You know who you are. George was there; you weren't.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    'Contrary to what some might have said, she's excellent and efficient in the studio which is why most of her producers have praised her'. Thanks as always, George. Got that, polluters? You know who you are. George was there; you weren't.
    Why are you always so defensive and aggressive?. You even perceive announcements that Diana’s concerts are to to cancelled as an attack.
    I think it fair to say most producers have enjoyed the experience of working with Diana.
    Perhaps Gary Katz and Barry Gibb are best viewed as polluters.......to some.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Why are you always so defensive and aggressive?. You even perceive announcements that Diana’s concerts are to to cancelled as an attack.
    I think it fair to say most producers have enjoyed the experience of working with Diana.
    Perhaps Gary Katz and Barry Gibb are best viewed as polluters.......to some.
    The paranoia is strong with this one. He's like Marv, except his Supreme is Diana instead of Mary. It's as if he's hoping someone derails the thread with anti Diana sentiments, which is really odd considering he's a big Ross fan. I don't get it. It's sad, especially considering how when not having a Paranoid Rossphrenic episode his posts are quite witty and enjoyable.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    The paranoia is strong with this one. He's like Marv, except his Supreme is Diana instead of Mary. It's as if he's hoping someone derails the thread with anti Diana sentiments, which is really odd considering he's a big Ross fan. I don't get it. It's sad, especially considering how when not having a Paranoid Rossphrenic episode his posts are quite witty and enjoyable.
    This gossiping about other forum members , if its to be done at all, would be better served in the private messaging arena.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by mowsville View Post
    So whats the "story" behind Johnny being on "These things Will Keep Me Loving You"...was he "coaxing" Diana then aswell.
    it occured to me, knowing that a producer who had a hit with an act got to have first dibs on the next single, that this was done so These Things might possibly be the follow-up to Someday. I'm glad they went with Reach Out and Touch.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Why are you always so defensive and aggressive?. You even perceive announcements that Diana’s concerts are to to cancelled as an attack.
    I think it fair to say most producers have enjoyed the experience of working with Diana.
    Perhaps Gary Katz and Barry Gibb are best viewed as polluters.......to some.
    Barry Gibb enjoyed working with Diana and even sent demos to her 2 or 3 years ago. He is keen to work with her again. He has personally told me that. It is Maurice Gibb who clashed with her, but that is something i am not willing to talk about publicly - yet.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by thommg View Post
    it occured to me, knowing that a producer who had a hit with an act got to have first dibs on the next single, that this was done so These Things might possibly be the follow-up to Someday. I'm glad they went with Reach Out and Touch.
    These Things... would've done worse than Reach Out and Touch. Diana demanded the song to be released over Berry's objections. I think he wanted These Things out but Diana was no fool. It may not have taken off as Motown would've hoped but it did become her first anthem. It always reminded me of What the World Needs Now, which DRATS covered before.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Barry Gibb enjoyed working with Diana and even sent demos to her 2 or 3 years ago. He is keen to work with her again. He has personally told me that. It is Maurice Gibb who clashed with her, but that is something i am not willing to talk about publicly - yet.
    I read that he was annoyed when Diana interrupted recording by flying off to attend the oscars or somewhere. It really does not matter
    The point I was making was that this thread had been been an informative and friendly one up until the post about polluters. This happens time and time again with the result being the thread descends into a verbal bun fight. It’s all very tiresome.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I read that he was annoyed when Diana interrupted recording by flying off to attend the oscars or somewhere. It really does not matter
    The point I was making was that this thread had been been an informative and friendly one up until the post about polluters. This happens time and time again with the result being the thread descends into a verbal bun fight. It’s all very tiresome.
    Yes he was annoyed when she decided to go to an awards show on the spur of the moment, and he was also annoyed with Dionne when she claimed to be too sick to come into the recording studio when in reality she was perfectly well enough to attend a party in New York, and he was also annoyed with Kenny Rogers when he skipped a session to attend a baseball game. The point i am making is these things happen all the time in showbusiness. It may not be right. It may not be professional, but it happens all the time. The stories i could tell you about Anita Baker, Mariah Carey and Jennifer Holliday would make your hair curl.
    Barry is a big admirer of Diana and visa versa.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Yes he was annoyed when she decided to go to an awards show on the spur of the moment, and he was also annoyed with Dionne when she claimed to be too sick to come into the recording studio when in reality she was perfectly well enough to attend a party in New York, and he was also annoyed with Kenny Rogers when he skipped a session to attend a baseball game. The point i am making is these things happen all the time in showbusiness. It may not be right. It may not be professional, but it happens all the time. The stories i could tell you about Anita Baker, Mariah Carey and Jennifer Holliday would make your hair curl.
    Barry is a big admirer of Diana and visa versa.
    I wish I had enough hair to curl, Mr. B!! It's such a shame that several posters here waste so much of their lives trying so desperately to defame one person, isn't it? In terms of recording sessions of 'yore there are two persons to whom we should listen and in whom I trust: George and our Ralph. Both of whom drop in (not often enough, for my taste!) to set these people to rights. I've heard second- and third-hand hair curlin' stories of recording sessions in the NYC area (which I live 5 miles away from, and worked in for 30+ years) by virtually each and every person who ever made a record in an NYC recording studio (I've known engineers and maintenance persons) and interestingly the only negative story I heard (completely unbidden, mind you) about Diana had something to do with someone sweeping a broom in the studio while she was singing.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    The paranoia is strong with this one. He's like Marv, except his Supreme is Diana instead of Mary. It's as if he's hoping someone derails the thread with anti Diana sentiments, which is really odd considering he's a big Ross fan.
    It’s a huge shame as like many who visit the forum, even if i’m not contributing to a particular thread it’s really interesting to read the back story’s regarding the recording of those Motown classics, fans opinions of the music and about Motown history in general. I feel sure that constant negativity by only a few is the reason more fans choose not to share their experiences. Again, it’s just a huge shame.

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    The point i am making is these things happen all the time in showbusiness. It may not be right. It may not be professional, but it happens all the time. The stories i could tell you about Anita Baker, Mariah Carey and Jennifer Holliday would make your hair curl.
    Barry is a big admirer of Diana and visa versa.
    The point i was making was this thread had been an informative and friendly one up until the post about polluters. This happens time and time again where threads are derailed and it’s always the same people. Fact.
    Last edited by Ollie9; 03-20-2020 at 10:48 AM.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    that is something i am not willing to talk about publicly - yet.
    I want your book. AND I want it NOW! lol

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Levi Stubbs Tears View Post
    I want your book. AND I want it NOW! lol
    Not even touched it for 18 months my friend. I thought i was through with all of this until i got the call from Streisand last year and then Diana this year. Also there have been numerous personal issues that have occupied my time. It will happen in some form or other, but it seems like the story is not yet finished.
    Thank you for the support and stay safe in these uncertain times.

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