My phone calls with Tony Turner

[midnightman]

The Miss Thing is real good fiction IMO. Flo wouldnt have used Miss Thing. Tony added that to his book. Miss Thing wasnt really used until the eraly 1970s.

Lol good point.

Also TT was wrong about People going to DR after their Copa residency since there is footage of Flo still leading on it by 66.

[sup_fan]

Lol good point.

Also TT was wrong about People going to DR after their Copa residency since there is footage of Flo still leading on it by 66.

and mary also writes about this. and the story also got incorporated into other motown books. This was a pretty damning story about diana and berry and, according to more recent accounts, it seems completely false. was is something Tony and Mary sort of concocted in their minds while trying to pull together content for Dreamgirl?

[luke]

And wasn’t there some kind of Story about Cindy parading around in her underwear and having various appetizers from a table!!lolol

[PeaceNHarmony]

and mary also writes about this. and the story also got incorporated into other motown books. This was a pretty damning story about diana and berry and, according to more recent accounts, it seems completely false. was is something Tony and Mary sort of concocted in their minds while trying to pull together content for Dreamgirl?

'... sort of concocted'? Hmmm. At the time of its publication there was no public interest whatsoever in Wilson's hypnotizing story [[I repeat: story) and it was only the tie-in to superstar Diana Ross and the hit musical Dreamgirls that stirred any interest. Alternative facts needed to be created. Many [[such as what you quote) have been proven grossly misinterpreted, if not indeed false.

[reese]

and mary also writes about this. and the story also got incorporated into other motown books. This was a pretty damning story about diana and berry and, according to more recent accounts, it seems completely false. was is something Tony and Mary sort of concocted in their minds while trying to pull together content for Dreamgirl?

The first book I recall reading the PEOPLE being taken away from Flo and given to Diana story was in Nelson George's book WHERE DID OUR LOVE GO, which came out before Mary's book. I haven't read it in a while but I think he placed the event happening during a rehearsal at the Twenty Grand. Where he got the info from I have no idea.

[blackguy69]

It was published in 1985 a year before Dreamgirl.

The first book I recall reading the PEOPLE being taken away from Flo and given to Diana story was in Nelson George's book WHERE DID OUR LOVE GO, which came out before Mary's book. I haven't read it in a while but I think he placed the event happening during a rehearsal at the Twenty Grand. Where he got the info from I have no idea.

[midnightman]

and mary also writes about this. and the story also got incorporated into other motown books. This was a pretty damning story about diana and berry and, according to more recent accounts, it seems completely false. was is something Tony and Mary sort of concocted in their minds while trying to pull together content for Dreamgirl?

Might've been. I think I saw some people a few years back comment that when they saw the Supremes onstage, Florence was still singing lead on People in 1965 as well. Flo's cousin did say that Flo asked Diana to sing "People" one night cause she was too sick to do it.

I do recall Nelson George mentioning it in the first biography that went into depth on the Supremes [["Where Did Our Love Go: The Rise and Fall of the Motown Sound"). So I doubt Mary & TT concocted it but I imagine Tony got a LITTLE creative with it lol

I'm sure Flo was upset either way though because apparently the song was taken from Flo at SOME point! Flo was still with the Supremes through 1967 so I imagine this occurred in late '66 after their Asian tour.

And that "People" went to DR fully afterwards but there's no timeline as to when that occurred. I would imagine this did happen at the Copa but not on their first residency in July 1965.

[reese]

Might've been. I think I saw some people a few years back comment that when they saw the Supremes onstage, Florence was still singing lead on People in 1965 as well. Flo's cousin did say that Flo asked Diana to sing "People" one night cause she was too sick to do it.

And that "People" went to DR fully afterwards but there's no timeline as to when that occurred. I would imagine this did happen at the Copa but not on their first residency in July 1965.

Gil Askey said that Flo complained that she was too hoarse to sing PEOPLE and Diana suggested they replace it with the Symphony Medley. After that, he said he didn't recall the song being put back into the show. I don't think Diana had a full PEOPLE lead until she sang it on the FUNNY GIRL album.

[midnightman]

Gil Askey said that Flo complained that she was too hoarse to sing PEOPLE and Diana suggested they replace it with the Symphony Medley. After that, he said he didn't recall the song being put back into the show. I don't think Diana had a full PEOPLE lead until she sang it on the FUNNY GIRL album.

OH!!! So they just took the song down altogether. Wow... now THAT makes better sense than Diana given the song while Flo was still in the group.

Jesus, that's what I get for having some faith in this story...

[BobbyC]

"GIRL!! Consider your WAISTLINE!!!" LOL

[sup_fan]

OH!!! So they just took the song down altogether. Wow... now THAT makes better sense than Diana given the song while Flo was still in the group.

Jesus, that's what I get for having some faith in this story...

so we heard People on the Sept 66 Roostertail live set on Symphony EE but did not hear it in the Copa May 67 live set on HDH EE. obviously it's also not on the live set they performed at the Hollywood Bowl in April. that could be either because Flo wasn't there or it was already out of the lineup.

So somewhere within those 8 months, the song was dropped. and odds are it was dropped by the time the shit really hit the fan in early spring 67 when Flo missed those performances in New Orleans and all. just my guess

[sup_fan]

"GIRL!! Consider your WAISTLINE!!!" LOL

that heifer!

[midnightman]

so we heard People on the Sept 66 Roostertail live set on Symphony EE but did not hear it in the Copa May 67 live set on HDH EE. obviously it's also not on the live set they performed at the Hollywood Bowl in April. that could be either because Flo wasn't there or it was already out of the lineup.

So somewhere within those 8 months, the song was dropped. and odds are it was dropped by the time the shit really hit the fan in early spring 67 when Flo missed those performances in New Orleans and all. just my guess

I'm gonna guess that after the song was dropped, that's when Florence finally lost it so yeah late 66/early 67, the writing was on the wall.

[sup_fan]

in the liner notes to Symphony EE, Andy mentions that this Roostertail show was one of the last set lists prior to reducing the early hits into the medley. now i don't mean that they necessarily made that change the next day. I'm just saying the show structure as of late Sept 66 was the last major show design to keep all of the hits as full songs. By the time YKMHO and LIHANYG topped the charts is when they would have probably made the shift to the medley of early hits. seems like they always wanted 4 or 5 of the hits in full format and with You Can't Hurry Love, you now have 7 #1 songs to deal with plus My World was still a popular live song [[have heard Diana really has always loved this one too).

always curious that Where Did Our Love Go seems to have been dropped for quite a while and that was THE first hit. interesting

with YKMHO, LIHANYG, YCHL and Happening all chart toppers, you only need 1 or so of the "old" songs to fill the set list. Plus the medley which includes BL, Stop and Come see plus the fav MWIEWY. they didn't seem to want to do Where and after the Flo debacle Back in My arms was an obvious one to cut.

[sup_fan]

as for People, if they were doing the big revamp of the show around the start of 67 to include both YKMHO and Love is here, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that People was dropped around that time. Flo was getting more and more unhappy and less and less reliable. Even if it was still lingering around, they probably had a quick backup to slide in. And after a while, why bother? if she's unreliable for performing it and since everything was being built up around Diana, why hassle?

[TheMotownManiac]

Flo and Mary did People in February 67 at the Keil Opera House in St Louis. I remember being so impressed with Mary. I was disappointed that WDOLG, BIMAA, Itching, and NBH were out. Highlight for me was Mary’s People, Love Is Here and YKMHO. Diana tore it up on those two. I never cared for queen of the house, I think it must’ve been more effective in night clubs in more intimate settings.

[BobbyC]

Hi Motown Maniac. Whenever the topic of People comes up it always amazes me that no one ever mentions that Mary shared lead on that song, at least sometimes. I've heard the audio and if you ask me, and no one did, Mary totally owned that song. Even Mary herself never mentions this from what I've read and heard. I wonder why M wasn't allowed to sing the whole song? She sounded great.

[sup_fan]

I think a full Mary lead on people would have been quite nice. there have been a few bootlegs of Flo's live version and then the [[IMO) ghastly studio version for the aborted There's A Place lp. given Mary's strong capabilities on ballads, i'd have thought this would have been an obvious fit for her.

Frankly i think Flo's leads have been nice on this song but nothing sensational. nothing that would have made me sit in the audience thinking, hmmm she's miscast as simply a background singer.

IMO Flo needed something that had more action and excitement. Imagine a live version of Ain't That Good News! good lord it would have turned into a revival!! Flo had such wonderful comic timing too. a faster paced song with some fun lyrics would have worked well. Like the Millie/Rose/Mame medley and Flo taking on the Mame roll. Always through that medley would have been much better served with each girl singing a roll.

[midnightman]

Flo and Mary singing it in Japan, 66

[midnightman]

I think a full Mary lead on people would have been quite nice. there have been a few bootlegs of Flo's live version and then the [[IMO) ghastly studio version for the aborted There's A Place lp. given Mary's strong capabilities on ballads, i'd have thought this would have been an obvious fit for her.

Frankly i think Flo's leads have been nice on this song but nothing sensational. nothing that would have made me sit in the audience thinking, hmmm she's miscast as simply a background singer.

IMO Flo needed something that had more action and excitement. Imagine a live version of Ain't That Good News! good lord it would have turned into a revival!! Flo had such wonderful comic timing too. a faster paced song with some fun lyrics would have worked well. Like the Millie/Rose/Mame medley and Flo taking on the Mame roll. Always through that medley would have been much better served with each girl singing a roll.

They misused Flo IMHO. She proved she could be a great comic foil onstage during the standards and she could deliver in uptempo pop-soul [[Ain't That Good News). If the Supremes were really as group oriented, Motown could've truly helped Flo.

[NativeNuYorker]

I remain curious as to why there are no photos of TT and Flo in his book at all.

[sup_fan]

They misused Flo IMHO. She proved she could be a great comic foil onstage during the standards and she could deliver in uptempo pop-soul [[Ain't That Good News). If the Supremes were really as group oriented, Motown could've truly helped Flo.

completely agree. they clearly had no interest in her as a vocalist outside of a backup singer

I know i've made some comments before about some of the roughness of her recordings. Frankly many of the leads we have of Flo are not what i consider huge, massive, missed opportunities. Although some might be her voice or talent, i do agree that much of it is practice. if not given the opportunity to experiment, test and learn, how does one grow? had they been willing to develop the talents of both M and F, i think both could have emerged as interesting and engaging singers. more so than they did or at least sooner than they did