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  1. #51
    Diana had some interesting things to say about her musical career in billboard in 1993 for her anniversary she said she didn't like later Supremes hits like lovechild she also said she was told she couldn't include a live recording of her and marvin gaye on stage in 1983 for the forever box set by Motown because it wasn't up to standard but she really wanted to put it it was fascinating interview

  2. #52
    Strange since love child has been in her show for almost twenty years.
    I thought it was living in shame she didn't like but seems like an interesting article to read

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    Diana had some interesting things to say about her musical career in billboard in 1993 for her anniversary she said she didn't like later Supremes hits like lovechild she also said she was told she couldn't include a live recording of her and marvin gaye on stage in 1983 for the forever box set by Motown because it wasn't up to standard but she really wanted to put it it was fascinating interview
    Perhaps that’s the reason why ‘Secret’s Of A Sparrow’ was so scant on musical info. Her feelings on such like had all pretty much been revealed in that interview.
    I didn’t know she hated “Love Child” and most probably “SDWBT”. From this revelation and from what Bluebrock has revealed, there appears to be rather a large proportion of her own recordings she doesn't much care for.
    Love Child, all singles and probably albums released 68-69
    Everything Is Everything
    Last Time I Saw Him
    Baby It’s Me
    Ross 78
    Why Do Fools
    Silk Electric
    ross 83
    Workin’ Overtime.
    I Love You.
    And that’s just the ones we know of. I wonder if this is one of reasons she is reluctant to discuss her music in much depth?.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    Strange since love child has been in her show for almost twenty years.
    I thought it was living in shame she didn't like but seems like an interesting article to read
    I think your correct david and I got love child mixed up with shame I will try and dig out the article out I have it somewhere

  5. #55
    From memory she is asked what she thinks of later singles love child and I'm livin in shame tackling social issues and she replies that she prefers the earlier hits and doesn't like the later release's something along those lines anyway

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Perhaps that’s the reason why ‘Secret’s Of A Sparrow’ was so scant on musical info. Her feelings on such like had all pretty much been revealed in that interview.
    I didn’t know she hated “Love Child” and most probably “SDWBT”. From this revelation and from what Bluebrock has revealed, there appears to be rather a large proportion of her own recordings she doesn't much care for.
    Love Child, all singles and probably albums released 68-69
    Everything Is Everything
    Last Time I Saw Him
    Baby It’s Me
    Ross 78
    Why Do Fools
    Silk Electric
    ross 83
    Workin’ Overtime.
    I Love You.
    And that’s just the ones we know of. I wonder if this is one of reasons she is reluctant to discuss her music in much depth?.
    There's her revealing comment in boy george's autobiography .....when fan marilyn asks her about them she replies.."there just songs.."

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    From memory she is asked what she thinks of later singles love child and I'm livin in shame tackling social issues and she replies that she prefers the earlier hits and doesn't like the later release's something along those lines anyway
    In her book, Diana wrote that she enjoyed songs like LOVE CHILD and I'm LIVIN' IN SHAME but for her, they weren't as wonderful as the older HDH songs that were written especially for them, like BABY LOVE, COME SEE ABOUT ME, and STOP!

    When she did LOVE CHILD and SHAME, she said they were about someone else's life. So when she did them, she likened it to doing a movie.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    Strange since love child has been in her show for almost twenty years.
    I thought it was living in shame she didn't like but seems like an interesting article to read
    I have no recollection of her disliking Love Child. She certainly did not mention that to me. She did especially like the early Supremes songs, but i find it highly unlikely she would include Love Child in recent sets if she disliked the song in any way.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    There's her revealing comment in boy george's autobiography .....when fan marilyn asks her about them she replies.."there just songs.."
    Her music has had such an impact on people’s lives that it’s hard to understand her indifference. She has mentioned she likes to hear how certain songs have helped people during difficult times in their lives, but that appears to be about it.
    I think it’s performing live that is of most interest to her. roar of the greasepaint, smell of the crowd.
    As a music buff i find it a little frustrating, but nothing that stops me being any less of a fan.
    Last edited by Ollie9; 03-01-2021 at 08:19 AM.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Her music has had such an impact on people’s lives that it’s hard to understand her indifference. She has mentioned she likes to hear how certain songs have helped people during difficult times in their lives, but that appears to be about it.
    I think it’s performing live that is of most interest to her. roar of the greasepaint, smell of the crowd.
    As a music buff i find it a little frustrating, but nothing that stops me being any less of a fan.
    I cannot put into words how frustrating i found her own indifference to her music.
    It was even more frustrating to hear her recall her indifferent albums far better than the stronger one's. She could talk you through Everything is Everything, Last time i saw him and Diana and Marvin, but if you mention Diana Ross70, 76 or Surrender and you would be met with a wall of silence. It actually upset me initially, but i quickly got over it and i have laughed about it for the past 30 years.
    This is the main reason why we will never ever get her to publicly discuss any individual albums in any detail.

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I cannot put into words how frustrating i found her own indifference to her music.
    It was even more frustrating to hear her recall her indifferent albums far better than the stronger one's. She could talk you through Everything is Everything, Last time i saw him and Diana and Marvin, but if you mention Diana Ross70, 76 or Surrender and you would be met with a wall of silence. It actually upset me initially, but i quickly got over it and i have laughed about it for the past 30 years.
    This is the main reason why we will never ever get her to publicly discuss any individual albums in any detail.
    i'm guessing here but i wonder if the reason she remembers the poor albums is because she had little to no involvement with ANY of the albums. she wasn't determining track listing, deciding on cover art or anything along those lines. just was just constantly recording and performing and motown pulled together whatever they wanted.

    because Everything, Last Time and the duet album were such disappointments, perhaps they really stick out in her mind because of that fact. and while she still wasn't involved in these [[relative) duds, because they were such let downs, there was more attention from her regarding them

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i'm guessing here but i wonder if the reason she remembers the poor albums is because she had little to no involvement with ANY of the albums. she wasn't determining track listing, deciding on cover art or anything along those lines. just was just constantly recording and performing and motown pulled together whatever they wanted.

    because Everything, Last Time and the duet album were such disappointments, perhaps they really stick out in her mind because of that fact. and while she still wasn't involved in these [[relative) duds, because they were such let downs, there was more attention from her regarding them
    Good point, sup_fan!

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by lucky2012 View Post
    Good point, sup_fan!
    Totally agree. I think my old friend Sup Fan has hit the nail on the head with this one.
    Now why the hell did i not think of that?
    There is hope for you yet Sup fan. Lol.....

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Totally agree. I think my old friend Sup Fan has hit the nail on the head with this one.
    Now why the hell did i not think of that?
    There is hope for you yet Sup fan. Lol.....
    lolol Blue i am who i am today due to your tutelage. us younger fans absorbing the knowledge and insights from the elderly fans. oops i mean elder fan lolol

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    lolol Blue i am who i am today due to your tutelage. us younger fans absorbing the knowledge and insights from the elderly fans. oops i mean elder fan lolol
    A cheeky response but a damn funny one too!

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    A cheeky response but a damn funny one too!
    lolol ya know i love ya Blue

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    lolol ya know i love ya Blue
    Coming right back at you!

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I cannot put into words how frustrating i found her own indifference to her music.
    It was even more frustrating to hear her recall her indifferent albums far better than the stronger one's. She could talk you through Everything is Everything, Last time i saw him and Diana and Marvin, but if you mention Diana Ross70, 76 or Surrender and you would be met with a wall of silence. It actually upset me initially, but i quickly got over it and i have laughed about it for the past 30 years.
    This is the main reason why we will never ever get her to publicly discuss any individual albums in any detail.
    It's wonderful to hear these memories bluebrock I was shocked when she mixed up a duet with the temptation's with marvin gaye on american idol

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    It's wonderful to hear these memories bluebrock I was shocked when she mixed up a duet with the temptation's with marvin gaye on american idol
    I don't recall that particular incident, but it does not surprise me in the slightest.

  20. #70
    On memory she said ruffin was gaye I sat there stunned

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    On memory she said ruffin was gaye I sat there stunned
    At least she didn’t think it was Julio Iglesias lol.

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    On memory she said ruffin was gaye I sat there stunned
    Oh no! I am so glad i did not witness that debacle.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    At least she didn’t think it was Julio Iglesias lol.
    Every cloud Ollie. Every cloud.......

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I don't recall that particular incident, but it does not surprise me in the slightest.
    One of the IDOL contestants, Phil Stacy, sang I'M GONNA MAKE YOU LOVE ME. During a taped interview after his rehearsal, Diana said it was a song she did with Marvin Gaye and it brought back a lot of memories.

    Now I wouldn't want to correct The Boss either. But considering the interview was taped, it is telling that no one on the show bothered to look it up. They could have easily edited that comment out.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    One of the IDOL contestants, Phil Stacy, sang I'M GONNA MAKE YOU LOVE ME. During a taped interview after his rehearsal, Diana said it was a song she did with Marvin Gaye and it brought back a lot of memories.

    Now I wouldn't want to correct The Boss either. But considering the interview was taped, it is telling that no one on the show bothered to look it up. They could have easily edited that comment out.
    I wonder what those "fond memories" were! She either had a very vivid imagination or maybe she was going through a tough time.
    There is no excusing such comments, but as you rightly point out production staff could have surely done some research and edited out the unfortunate comments.
    That situation would never have occurred on my watch. Not sure who was taking care of her at that particular time but he/she was certainly not doing their job to an acceptable standard.

  26. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    I'm still getting over the $30 top ticket price. LOL. Those really were the days.

    I will say that 70 minutes does seem rather short for a Diana concert, at least back then. Nowadays this is about the norm. But I remember her performing for two hours when I saw her in 1983 at a $17.50 top ticket price.

    I suspect the reviewer wasn't aware of what was happening in Diana's life at the time of the Radio City engagement. Her mother was dying from cancer and Diana was doing her show every night, flying back to Detroit to spend the day with her mom before flying back to NYC for the next night's show. This activity probably accounted for the show's shortened running time.

    I saw Diana in concert a few weeks later and had no complaints at all. I don't think the news of her mother's death had yet been released.

    The set list was [[from my best memory):

    IT'S MY TURN
    AIN'T NO MOUNTAIN HIGH ENOUGH
    TOUCH ME IN THE MORNING
    LET'S GO UP
    YOU CAN'T HURRY LOVE
    REACH OUT AND TOUCH
    MISSING YOU
    MIRROR, MIRROR

    Intermission

    I'M COMING OUT
    UPSIDE DOWN
    MUSCLES
    HOME
    50s MEDLEY: RESCUE ME/SO CLOSE/WHY DO FOOLS FALL IN LOVE
    [[*Interesting note: only the last song was really from the 50s)
    SUPREMES MEDLEY: REFLECTIONS/BABY LOVE/STOP!/ITCHING IN MY HEART
    REMEMBER ME
    SWEPT AWAY

    Costume change

    ENDLESS LOVE
    FOREVER YOUNG

    Costume change

    SWEPT AWAY [[reprise)
    Iím completely sympathetic to the horror Miss Ross was going through at the time, however, itís still no excuse for that short of a show Ė especially when youíre breaking records at radio city music Hall. Either do the show or donít do the show, but donít short change the people that came to see you do your best. I wasnít there, but everyone I know who was there was not happy.

  27. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
    I’m completely sympathetic to the horror Miss Ross was going through at the time, however, it’s still no excuse for that short of a show – especially when you’re breaking records at radio city music Hall. Either do the show or don’t do the show, but don’t short change the people that came to see you do your best. I wasn’t there, but everyone I know who was there was not happy.
    It's difficult to cancel shows at short notice.
    I can well understand why some fans would feel shortchanged, but i do believe most would have understood had they known what was going on in her personal life. Sadly they did not know.

  28. #78
    Wasnít she performing 2 shows a night on some of those dates?

  29. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    It's difficult to cancel shows at short notice.
    I can well understand why some fans would feel shortchanged, but i do believe most would have understood had they known what was going on in her personal life. Sadly they did not know.
    Ďyouíre right - many fans would have understood, but I think the majority would still feel shortchanged. Another 15-20 minutes would have made all the difference - including A frank talk about her mom and flying back and forth would have made a warm moment no one would ever forget. Diana Ross Pouring her heart out to us sold out radio city music HallÖÖ I get chills just thinking about it.

  30. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
    ‘you’re right - many fans would have understood, but I think the majority would still feel shortchanged. Another 15-20 minutes would have made all the difference - including A frank talk about her mom and flying back and forth would have made a warm moment no one would ever forget. Diana Ross Pouring her heart out to us sold out radio city music Hall…… I get chills just thinking about it.
    As we all know only too well Ms Ross is not someone prone to sharing her personal issues in public.
    Piers Morgan has been trying to secure her as a guest on his UK Life Stories tv programme for many years to no avail. She would never agree to airing her linen dirty or otherwise in public.

  31. #81
    I’m sure she did what she thought was best at the time. Perhaps she does harbour some regrets about not cancelling the concerts and spending more time with her mother, who knows.
    Personally I would have cancelled. I seem to recall her cancelling shows when one of her dogs died after ingesting rat poison a stagehand had left out.

  32. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I’m sure she did what she thought was best at the time. Perhaps she does harbour some regrets about not cancelling the concerts and spending more time with her mother, who knows.
    Personally I would have cancelled. I seem to recall her cancelling shows when one of her dogs died after ingesting rat poison a stagehand had left out.
    In her book, Diana did say that in retrospect she wished she had just cancelled the Radio City engagement. But keeping her word is very important and she has rarely cancelled an engagement once committed.

    The incident re her dogs dying after ingesting rat poison happened at the Latin Casino in New Jersey in 1969. It happened on the evening of the first performance. Unfortunately that engagement was to last two weeks and was completely sold out. The cancellation led to a lawsuit that was settled years later.

  33. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    In her book, Diana did say that in retrospect she wished she had just cancelled the Radio City engagement. But keeping her word is very important and she has rarely cancelled an engagement once committed.

    The incident re her dogs dying after ingesting rat poison happened at the Latin Casino in New Jersey in 1969. It happened on the evening of the first performance. Unfortunately that engagement was to last two weeks and was completely sold out. The cancellation led to a lawsuit that was settled years later.
    I wasn't aware of that particular situation. It seems a little extreme to cancel for the loss of a dog however sad that may be.
    She was only young at the time, but i am surprised Berry allowed her to cancel.

  34. #84
    She should've cancelled and spent that precious time with her mother. On the other hand she may have felt that in such a trying time, spending some time in her second home- the stage- may have been what she needed to keep her sanity. I can understand fans griping because of the short show without knowing the reasons why, but find it cringy to criticize it after finding out why the show was short. 70 minutes has to be better than zero minutes. Any fan should've been grateful to get anything out of her during such a horrible time in her life.

  35. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I wasn't aware of that particular situation. It seems a little extreme to cancel for the loss of a dog however sad that may be.
    She was only young at the time, but i am surprised Berry allowed her to cancel.
    it was June of 69. they barely completed a third of the engagement. Booked June 2 - 15, cancelled on June 6.

    i've always wondered if there was more to the cancellation than was made public. and i'm totally speculating here. the group had been touring constantly, they'd had a wildly successful fall and EOR 69 with Love Child, the temps duets, TCB. Diana was starting to do her solo gigs, such as Like Hep which aired in April. No Matter What Sign had just bombed and so her full solo career was still on hold.

    Maybe this was a time of just total, utter exhaustion. Group morale was dropping to a new low. maybe Berry realized that she was at a breaking point again.

    again, this is just speculation.

  36. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    She should've cancelled and spent that precious time with her mother. On the other hand she may have felt that in such a trying time, spending some time in her second home- the stage- may have been what she needed to keep her sanity. I can understand fans griping because of the short show without knowing the reasons why, but find it cringy to criticize it after finding out why the show was short. 70 minutes has to be better than zero minutes. Any fan should've been grateful to get anything out of her during such a horrible time in her life.
    agreed. i think if she had cancelled, refunded the tickets and made a simple public statement about it, the public would have easily supported her.

    this is sort of one of those instances where even just a simple and small display of humbleness could have done wonders for her public persona. I realize it's wildly inappropriate to suggest using her lovely mothers terrible illness and death as a publicity ploy. just saying that it isn't necessary to forever keep up this wall of invincibility. people appreciate Diana's strength and work ethics. but they find her a "cold bitch" which is not really true. simply acknowledging she's human with normal emotions [[especially around such a touching situation) would not tarnish her overall image of strength

  37. #87
    The crazy thing is that Florence was booked at the Latin Casino about nine or so months prior to DRATS and she also cancelled her gig. I don't remember a reason being given, but assume that so late in her pregnancy that probably had a lot to do with it. Anyway, I imagine after two failed "Supremes" engagements that the group's name had to be mud at the LC. Does anyone know if the group or it's singers as solos were ever booked there again?

  38. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    The crazy thing is that Florence was booked at the Latin Casino about nine or so months prior to DRATS and she also cancelled her gig. I don't remember a reason being given, but assume that so late in her pregnancy that probably had a lot to do with it. Anyway, I imagine after two failed "Supremes" engagements that the group's name had to be mud at the LC. Does anyone know if the group or it's singers as solos were ever booked there again?
    really?!?! i'd not heard that Flo was booked there. can someone confirm this?

    the Latin Casino was a VERY big deal. maybe not quite Copa or the Flamingo. but i would think this was WAY out of Flo's league at the time

  39. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    The crazy thing is that Florence was booked at the Latin Casino about nine or so months prior to DRATS and she also cancelled her gig. I don't remember a reason being given, but assume that so late in her pregnancy that probably had a lot to do with it. Anyway, I imagine after two failed "Supremes" engagements that the group's name had to be mud at the LC. Does anyone know if the group or it's singers as solos were ever booked there again?
    Was Flo really booked at the Latin Casino? That seems a rather prestigious gig for someone with no solo hits, especially a 1500 seat venue. I know she did a gig at the Wonder Garden in Atlantic City that didn't go well.

    I read that Diana never appeared at the venue again but I don't know about the 70s Supremes. Although considering a lawsuit resulted from the 1969 cancellation, I suspect there were no more Supremes engagements either.
    Last edited by reese; 03-03-2021 at 12:07 PM.

  40. #90
    I thought it was in Flo's biography, but just checked and don't see it. However, that information came from Al Abrams whom I recall was talking about how frustrating it was to be in the Flo Ballard solo camp. She got the booking at the LC through the talent agency she was signed with. It was, obviously, considered a lucrative and high profile gig. At the very last minute Flo cancelled the gig. Abrams didn't give a reason for the cancellation, but expressed his frustration at the fact that Flo had at her feet what could have been a career elevator but failed to take advantage of it. I recall the time frame as being September 1968. This would have been a month to weeks before she gave birth prematurely.

  41. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    it was June of 69. they barely completed a third of the engagement. Booked June 2 - 15, cancelled on June 6.

    i've always wondered if there was more to the cancellation than was made public. and i'm totally speculating here. the group had been touring constantly, they'd had a wildly successful fall and EOR 69 with Love Child, the temps duets, TCB. Diana was starting to do her solo gigs, such as Like Hep which aired in April. No Matter What Sign had just bombed and so her full solo career was still on hold.

    Maybe this was a time of just total, utter exhaustion. Group morale was dropping to a new low. maybe Berry realized that she was at a breaking point again.

    again, this is just speculation.
    I think you may be on to something here.
    It was almost 20 years before i worked with her but the Ms Ross i worked with would not cancel a string of shows due to the death of a pet. She quite simply would not have done that.
    Looking at the dates you provided i strongly suspect the shows were cancelled for an altogether different reason.
    End of discussion.

  42. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I thought it was in Flo's biography, but just checked and don't see it. However, that information came from Al Abrams whom I recall was talking about how frustrating it was to be in the Flo Ballard solo camp. She got the booking at the LC through the talent agency she was signed with. It was, obviously, considered a lucrative and high profile gig. At the very last minute Flo cancelled the gig. Abrams didn't give a reason for the cancellation, but expressed his frustration at the fact that Flo had at her feet what could have been a career elevator but failed to take advantage of it. I recall the time frame as being September 1968. This would have been a month to weeks before she gave birth prematurely.
    wow - very interesting. i'd not heard this story. but had heard that Flo and Tommy were difficult to work with. what those "difficulties" were i don't know

    Flo had been a star but was certainly starting over. the label would, naturally, be experimenting with different producers, styles and sounds. she would need to hone her craft as a solo star on stage and develop her abilities and confidence as a single entity. how to run an entire show and carry all of the material, how to engage throughout the whole show as the sole point of reference and interact with the audience

    if people had been trying to help her re-establish herself and then were undermined like this story suggests, that's a very damaging situation

  43. #93
    I imagine Tommy's difficulties stemmed from his inexperience. What made him think he could go from limo driver and lackey to managing a singing career will always be one of the million dollar questions. What made Flo go along with it probably lies in the ingredients of a great song, many great songs, where a woman stands by her man...even when he's driving them off the road.

    In Stephanie Campbell's interview with George Kerr, he said that he and Flo butted heads in the studio because she would sometimes refuse to be directed. I'll never forget one of his quotes of her was "I'm Flo Ballard and I know what I'm talking about". He also said she'd come to the studio smelling of alcohol, leading to the conclusion that she wasn't always sober, which makes sense if she's making overly grandiose statements like "I'm Flo Ballard and...". On the other hand, Robert Bateman had no problem with Flo, so some of it may have been personality conflicts.

    Yeah, Flo was starting over, almost from scratch. The frustrating thing- in post examination of it all- is the "what ifs" if certain factors had not been present. I still say that being pregnant and attempting a solo career was almost a sure sign that this wasn't going to work. Can you imagine the morning sickness and cravings and weight gain and strain of voice while trying to make a go of it? Yikes! What if she had waited until 1969 to make a go? What if she had told Tommy "hell no" to managing her? What if she had gone to another record label? I could go on and on. But clearly her development as a solo artist hinged on what she could do that first year and there was just too much going on for it to really work. I just hate that after ABC and all of that, that she got tied up in her legal battles and didn't focus on continuing the career somewhere else. She could've fought the lawyer and Motown and continued singing at the same time. But as was evidenced toward the end of her time with the Supremes, when Flo got locked in on her anger, she didn't always see the forest for the trees. I kind of know the feeling myself.

  44. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I imagine Tommy's difficulties stemmed from his inexperience. What made him think he could go from limo driver and lackey to managing a singing career will always be one of the million dollar questions. What made Flo go along with it probably lies in the ingredients of a great song, many great songs, where a woman stands by her man...even when he's driving them off the road.

    In Stephanie Campbell's interview with George Kerr, he said that he and Flo butted heads in the studio because she would sometimes refuse to be directed. I'll never forget one of his quotes of her was "I'm Flo Ballard and I know what I'm talking about". He also said she'd come to the studio smelling of alcohol, leading to the conclusion that she wasn't always sober, which makes sense if she's making overly grandiose statements like "I'm Flo Ballard and...". On the other hand, Robert Bateman had no problem with Flo, so some of it may have been personality conflicts.

    Yeah, Flo was starting over, almost from scratch. The frustrating thing- in post examination of it all- is the "what ifs" if certain factors had not been present. I still say that being pregnant and attempting a solo career was almost a sure sign that this wasn't going to work. Can you imagine the morning sickness and cravings and weight gain and strain of voice while trying to make a go of it? Yikes! What if she had waited until 1969 to make a go? What if she had told Tommy "hell no" to managing her? What if she had gone to another record label? I could go on and on. But clearly her development as a solo artist hinged on what she could do that first year and there was just too much going on for it to really work. I just hate that after ABC and all of that, that she got tied up in her legal battles and didn't focus on continuing the career somewhere else. She could've fought the lawyer and Motown and continued singing at the same time. But as was evidenced toward the end of her time with the Supremes, when Flo got locked in on her anger, she didn't always see the forest for the trees. I kind of know the feeling myself.
    interesting. i hadn't heard specifics but had heard the general comment that Flo and Tommy were a bit too high on themselves.

    i wonder if Flo's view of Tommy was similar to Mary's view of Pedro. when you feel totally alone and nearly abandoned by whatever system/group/people had been supporting you, when you find someone that you think is "on your side" or is capable of protecting you, then you might quickly elevate that person's capabilities.

  45. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    interesting. i hadn't heard specifics but had heard the general comment that Flo and Tommy were a bit too high on themselves.

    i wonder if Flo's view of Tommy was similar to Mary's view of Pedro. when you feel totally alone and nearly abandoned by whatever system/group/people had been supporting you, when you find someone that you think is "on your side" or is capable of protecting you, then you might quickly elevate that person's capabilities.
    Possibly, but I think it was really just the age old tale of woman in love blinded by man's faults. That was a recurring theme in the music industry, at least back in that time. Diana was lucky in the fact that the man she fell for who controlled her career actually knew what he was doing and was as hell bent on success for her as he was for himself. Flo and Mary were unfortunate enough to fall for men who put themselves above their wives. And of course both men were batterers, although I don't know if Tommy was as volatile as Pedro. Saying "no" to a violent man can come with consequences. The ladies may have felt it was better to go along than to not.

  46. #96
    Like many things about flos post Supremes career the details of the domestic violence she endured are murky it's alluded to in several biographies but short on specific details... for flo and Mary sadly domestic violence was very much accepted in that time period... Mary is more forthcoming about her abuse from pedro in supreme faith his rages where usually triggered by paranoia of Mary's relationships with other men

  47. #97
    yeah i'm not sure about the domestic violence against flo. other than tony's books, are there any other sources? and frankly any trustworthy sources? it certainly could have happened - i wasn't there. but didn't want to assume Tony was accurate

  48. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    yeah i'm not sure about the domestic violence against flo. other than tony's books, are there any other sources? and frankly any trustworthy sources? it certainly could have happened - i wasn't there. but didn't want to assume Tony was accurate
    Maxine Ballard's book mentioned Tommy's violence towards Flo. It was also referred to in the AUTOPSY episode dedicated to Flo.

  49. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Maxine Ballard's book mentioned Tommy's violence towards Flo. It was also referred to in the AUTOPSY episode dedicated to Flo.
    I think it's mentioned in benjamin's book as well

  50. #100
    Behind the feisty personality Flo presented to the world, she was a sensitive and vulnerable adult.

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