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  1. #1

    The Supremes - I Don't Want to Lose You

    From the High Energy album, "I Don't Want to Lose You". I have read several times that Susaye Greene was only dubbed into 2 songs, "High Energy" and "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do the Walking". I can clearly hear her on this one as well:


  2. #2
    yeah in the LYG booklet, it lists out recording dates and she's on much more than just the 2 songs. or at least much more recording was still going on after she joined.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    yeah in the LYG booklet, it lists out recording dates and she's on much more than just the 2 songs. or at least much more recording was still going on after she joined.
    Her voice is very unique. I do not know how someone came to the conclusion that she was only on two songs from that album.

  4. #4
    I always thought she may be on the track too, but since it was never seen 'in print" I just assumed it was Scherrie doing a falsetto thing. Till the Boat, Teardrops, Only You & You Keep Me Movin' On are def. Cindy. Susaye's voice IS very unique...but MSC def. had a cleaner and more pleasant seamless tone in the harmony.

  5. #5
    in the studio i think MSS might have slightly outshined MSC. both were excellent though. very strong 3-part harmony

    MSC probably had a slightly better blend, as C (who was typically singing the middle note/2nd soprano part) and M blend perfectly together and then Scherrrie just sat right on top with a vibrant 1st soprano

    with MSS, often Scherrie shifted to 2nd and Susaye was 1st. the tone of the group definitely changed as Susaye and Scherrie are both more powerful singers than either M or C. I think S and S actually blended rather well together. their tones seem to merge. and of course M blends well with just about everyone. But the overall sound was very powerful and appealing on record. It's just that live it didn't work as well.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    in the studio i think MSS might have slightly outshined MSC. both were excellent though. very strong 3-part harmony

    MSC probably had a slightly better blend, as C (who was typically singing the middle note/2nd soprano part) and M blend perfectly together and then Scherrrie just sat right on top with a vibrant 1st soprano

    with MSS, often Scherrie shifted to 2nd and Susaye was 1st. the tone of the group definitely changed as Susaye and Scherrie are both more powerful singers than either M or C. I think S and S actually blended rather well together. their tones seem to merge. and of course M blends well with just about everyone. But the overall sound was very powerful and appealing on record. It's just that live it didn't work as well.
    With Mary, Scherrie, and Susaye you had three lead singers. Still, they were talented enough to blend well in harmony or duet ("We Should Be Closer Together").

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Her voice is very unique. I do not know how someone came to the conclusion that she was only on two songs from that album.
    Maybe Susaye will chime in? MSS was such a super group. But we do know that NO non-Supreme voices were used.

  8. #8
    Mary, Scherrie and Susaye sounded beautiful together on their studio recordings, a great blend. I loved all their work on the last album, but their live performances were a problem. The background was always too loud, especially when Susaye did the top harmony. They were always belting it out, and way too much vibrato when all that was needed was softness and clean harmonies

    IMO, the best Supremes harmonies in the 70's were sung by Jean, Mary and Lynda. The volume was perfectly balanced, seamless tone (clear as water), slow/even vibrato. Their "In Japan!" album is a great example.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by detmotownguy View Post
    Maybe Susaye will chime in? MSS was such a super group. But we do know that NO non-Supreme voices were used.
    Those three could have made it as a group clear up through the nineties in my opinion.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Weslley Francisco View Post
    Mary, Scherrie and Susaye sounded beautiful together on their studio recordings, a great blend. I loved all their work on the last album, but their live performances were a problem. The background was always too loud, especially when Susaye did the top harmony. They were always belting it out, and way too much vibrato when all that was needed was softness and clean harmonies<br>
    <br>
    IMO, the best Supremes harmonies in the 70's were sung by Jean, Mary and Lynda. The volume was perfectly balanced, seamless tone (clear as water), slow/even vibrato. Their "In Japan!" album is a great example.
    <br>
    I agree. JML were potentially wonderful. My favorite line up after the original trio. I lost interest when Jean and Lynda left.
    Last edited by Bluebrock; 12-15-2019 at 03:42 AM. Reason: Not finished the post

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    From the High Energy album, "I Don't Want to Lose You". I have read several times that Susaye Greene was only dubbed into 2 songs, "High Energy" and "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do the Walking". I can clearly hear her on this one as well:

    best vocal line up MSC
    sorry but I’ve always found Susaye’s vocals tooo shrill and high

  12. #12
    You have to admit, Susaye added some spice to the Supremes sound. I remember being blown away when I first dripped the needle on "High Energy". That high, 5 octave voice made me think that there was some serious Supremes business going on here! LOL! Say what you want about Pedro Ferrer, but it was pretty clear that they were not messing around. They were very serious about keeping the Supremes fresh.

  13. #13
    Agree...Jean ...Lynda n Mary were a good team.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Weslley Francisco View Post
    Mary, Scherrie and Susaye sounded beautiful together on their studio recordings, a great blend. I loved all their work on the last album, but their live performances were a problem. The background was always too loud, especially when Susaye did the top harmony. They were always belting it out, and way too much vibrato when all that was needed was softness and clean harmonies

    IMO, the best Supremes harmonies in the 70's were sung by Jean, Mary and Lynda. The volume was perfectly balanced, seamless tone (clear as water), slow/even vibrato. Their "In Japan!" album is a great example.
    interesting POV. love discussing our different opinions. see i think MJL struggled live. and the vocals on Japan are NOT my fav. Lynda's and Jean's tones conflict for me too much on that album. both of course are wonderful singers but IMO the M and C combo was the best for the 70s backing vocals. those two women just had a perfect blend which provided an ideal "pillow" for unique lead singers to showcase on - Diana, Jean, Scherrie.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    You have to admit, Susaye added some spice to the Supremes sound. I remember being blown away when I first dripped the needle on "High Energy". That high, 5 octave voice made me think that there was some serious Supremes business going on here! LOL! Say what you want about Pedro Ferrer, but it was pretty clear that they were not messing around. They were very serious about keeping the Supremes fresh.
    agreed! i know there are lots of opinions about the timing of the personnel change, conflicts with Pedro, etc. But just looking at the talent of MSS, it's an incredible lineup. And Susaye brought such an amazing new tone, style and sound. You're right that her sky-high vocals were so unique and different. She also had some beautiful similarities to Minnie Ripperton. I don't think she was properly utilized during her Sup years. of course it was a short period and who knows what might have come out on the next lp or two.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    agreed! i know there are lots of opinions about the timing of the personnel change, conflicts with Pedro, etc. But just looking at the talent of MSS, it's an incredible lineup. And Susaye brought such an amazing new tone, style and sound. You're right that her sky-high vocals were so unique and different. She also had some beautiful similarities to Minnie Ripperton. I don't think she was properly utilized during her Sup years. of course it was a short period and who knows what might have come out on the next lp or two.
    Internal conflict was also a factor in the rapid demise of MSS. Twas ever thus.

  17. #17
    That's a cute version, I prefer Phyllis Hyman's cover though.



    Susaye's addition on the Supremes' version was not necessary.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Internal conflict was also a factor in the rapid demise of MSS. Twas ever thus.
    agreed. the irony of the group, talent-wise, being pretty much at the peak and yet totally incapable of being a working unit. of course, we know the reason why

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    agreed. the irony of the group, talent-wise, being pretty much at the peak and yet totally incapable of being a working unit. of course, we know the reason why
    Yes we do! The same person who caused conflict in every line up of the Supremes.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    That's a cute version, I prefer Phyllis Hyman's cover though.



    Susaye's addition on the Supremes' version was not necessary.
    I agree. Phyliss did a lovely version, but of course this deeply troubled lady had the voice of an angel. The anguish and heartbreak in her voice was so moving. It may even surpass the Spinners version.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by detmotownguy View Post
    Maybe Susaye will chime in? MSS was such a super group. But we do know that NO non-Supreme voices were used.
    No, this is all, pure Supremes on this one.......hehehehehehe!

  22. #22
    it be so interesting to know what the Hollands would have done with the Sups next. you def get the feeling that Susaye was an add-in for the HE sessions. it definitely works - her vocal parts to Walking are great and of course her lead on HE.

    with MS&S you get a sense that they're starting to explore what the 3 unique voices can you. You have Scherrie delivering mega-power on the heavy dance tracks, mary's sultry ballads and Susaye's unique voice on Come Into My Life and then the haunting dueting on We Should Be Closer.

    it's a shame we never got to hear S or S doing a full ballad. would have been lovely

  23. #23
    [QUOTE=sup_fan;554757]it be so interesting to know what the Hollands would have done with the Sups next. you def get the feeling that Susaye was an add-in for the HE sessions. it definitely works - her vocal parts to Walking are great and of course her lead on HE.

    with MS&S you get a sense that they're starting to explore what the 3 unique voices can you. You have Scherrie delivering mega-power on the heavy dance tracks, mary's sultry ballads and Susaye's unique voice on Come Into My Life and then the haunting dueting on We Should Be Closer.

    I agree Sup Fan. If they could have hung on for another album with the Holland Brothers to regroup internally so to speak. There was so much talent w/MSS. I have always wondered if there were any cuts or discussions for a 3rd album. Sounds funny saying album these days.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    it be so interesting to know what the Hollands would have done with the Sups next. you def get the feeling that Susaye was an add-in for the HE sessions. it definitely works - her vocal parts to Walking are great and of course her lead on HE.

    with MS&S you get a sense that they're starting to explore what the 3 unique voices can you. You have Scherrie delivering mega-power on the heavy dance tracks, mary's sultry ballads and Susaye's unique voice on Come Into My Life and then the haunting dueting on We Should Be Closer.

    it's a shame we never got to hear S or S doing a full ballad. would have been lovely
    Motown was just stupid at that time. The Emotions ended up scoring with the type of songs The Supremes were doing. The perfect example was "Don't Ask My Neighbors" that came out in 1977 a year after The Supremes magnificent, "We Should Be Closer Together". The same style of music with the Supremes song being better. Motown They should have listened to the fans and the DJ's and not Suzanne DePasse!
    Last edited by marv2; 12-16-2019 at 08:14 PM.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I agree. Phyliss did a lovely version, but of course this deeply troubled lady had the voice of an angel. The anguish and heartbreak in her voice was so moving. It may even surpass the Spinners version.
    Yeah I actually can't stand to hear the Spinners' version lol

    She gave the song what it needed. Like I said, the Supremes' version was cute but definitely should've been sung by Scherrie. No Susaye lol (I don't mind Mary's voice in this though)

    Phyllis was such a musical genius.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Yeah I actually can't stand to hear the Spinners' version lol

    She gave the song what it needed. Like I said, the Supremes' version was cute but definitely should've been sung by Scherrie. No Susaye lol (I don't mind Mary's voice in this though)

    Phyllis was such a musical genius.

    No. Only Mary Wilson could have sung that song that nice. She is the Supreme Queen of ballads! LOL!

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Yeah I actually can't stand to hear the Spinners' version lol

    She gave the song what it needed. Like I said, the Supremes' version was cute but definitely should've been sung by Scherrie. No Susaye lol (I don't mind Mary's voice in this though)

    Phyllis was such a musical genius.
    Yes she was. It is such a tragedy that she was unable to find true happiness. She gave us so much and left us with a wonderful legacy of recordings.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    No. Only Mary Wilson could have sung that song that nice. She is the Supreme Queen of ballads! LOL!
    i do like Mary's version, although my fav ballad of hers on HE is Don't Let My Teardrops.

    And i don't argue that mary was strong on the ballads in the MSS era. but both S and S were very versatile and talented singers. to limit them ONLY to the dance tracks wasn't right. Mary certainly did (for better or worse) her share of dance leads. if nothing else it would be interesting to hear the different interpretations.

    Scherrie we know would have been sensational on a ballad like this. and i'm super intrigued with what Susaye would have done. there's a stunning version of her My Funny Valentine floating around on youtube. amazing! you might need to redo the arrangment of I Don't Want To Love You to better accommodate her style and approach. but damn!!

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Motown was just stupid at that time. The Emotions ended up scoring with the type of songs The Supremes were doing. The perfect example was "Don't Ask My Neighbors" that came out in 1977 a year after The Supremes magnificent, "We Should Be Closer Together". The same style of music with the Supremes song being better. Motown They should have listened to the fans and the DJ's and not Suzanne DePasse!
    there are so many "what if's" with the MSS era. the talent was absolutely there in the studio and the Hollands seemed to be really onto something. then *poof* it was over

    it wasn't solely a motown problem. yes the company did plenty of stupid moves but so did mary. the first being having Pedro manage the group and the second was using the group as a platform to launch her solo career. had motown been managing the group and mary actively working to maintain/lead the group rather then busting out, things might have been different

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    there are so many "what if's" with the MSS era. the talent was absolutely there in the studio and the Hollands seemed to be really onto something. then *poof* it was over

    it wasn't solely a motown problem. yes the company did plenty of stupid moves but so did mary. the first being having Pedro manage the group and the second was using the group as a platform to launch her solo career. had motown been managing the group and mary actively working to maintain/lead the group rather then busting out, things might have been different
    Mary and Pedro were more interested in launching her solo career at this point in time. Scherrie and Susaye were underused when in all honesty they had vocal versatility Mary could only dream of. I wish they had been given more of a chance on the ballads just as Mary had been given several chances on the uptempo material where she sounded uncomfortable and unconvincing . Little wonder Scherrie and Susaye became so disillusioned. They deserved better and so did we.

  31. #31
    it seems they simply re-purposed much of their existing orchestral charts for Susaye when she joined. rather than exploring new songs to showcase her abilities. Jean did both People and He Ain't Heavy. and of course the Marilyn number in the Genie segment. They did HE during the Europe tour in spring 76. Wonder what improvements they could have done to the show to better spotlight her?

    only other song she sang lead live (that i know of) was Knocks Me Off My Feet

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    there are so many "what if's" with the MSS era. the talent was absolutely there in the studio and the Hollands seemed to be really onto something. then *poof* it was over

    it wasn't solely a motown problem. yes the company did plenty of stupid moves but so did mary. the first being having Pedro manage the group and the second was using the group as a platform to launch her solo career. had motown been managing the group and mary actively working to maintain/lead the group rather then busting out, things might have been different
    Uh, uh, no you are wrong. It was Motown that created "problems", not Mary Wilson and Pedro Ferrer. I was around and more than just passively involved back then. We didn't have the internet then, but I remember the weekly updates we got on what was going on. People that don't really know like to say it was Pedro, it was Mary, it was the changing members, etc, etc. when I know and remember that none of that was the case.

    If it weren't for Mary and Pedro, the Supremes would have ceased to exist after Jean Terrell left.

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i do like Mary's version, although my fav ballad of hers on HE is Don't Let My Teardrops.

    And i don't argue that mary was strong on the ballads in the MSS era. but both S and S were very versatile and talented singers. to limit them ONLY to the dance tracks wasn't right. Mary certainly did (for better or worse) her share of dance leads. if nothing else it would be interesting to hear the different interpretations.

    Scherrie we know would have been sensational on a ballad like this. and i'm super intrigued with what Susaye would have done. there's a stunning version of her My Funny Valentine floating around on youtube. amazing! you might need to redo the arrangment of I Don't Want To Love You to better accommodate her style and approach. but damn!!
    I only like the ballads when they are sung by Mary Wilson.

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Yeah I actually can't stand to hear the Spinners' version lol

    She gave the song what it needed. Like I said, the Supremes' version was cute but definitely should've been sung by Scherrie. No Susaye lol (I don't mind Mary's voice in this though)

    Phyllis was such a musical genius.
    Phyllis was a vocal beast. I really don't care for the song "I Don't Want to Lose You" by anyone, but if I have to sit through it, it would be Phyllis' version.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i do like Mary's version, although my fav ballad of hers on HE is Don't Let My Teardrops.

    And i don't argue that mary was strong on the ballads in the MSS era. but both S and S were very versatile and talented singers. to limit them ONLY to the dance tracks wasn't right. Mary certainly did (for better or worse) her share of dance leads. if nothing else it would be interesting to hear the different interpretations.

    Scherrie we know would have been sensational on a ballad like this. and i'm super intrigued with what Susaye would have done. there's a stunning version of her My Funny Valentine floating around on youtube. amazing! you might need to redo the arrangment of I Don't Want To Love You to better accommodate her style and approach. but damn!!
    Oh yeah, "Teardrops" is a gorgeous recording. Mary does something with it that even the great Dionne Warwick couldn't do with it. It really should've been a single, maybe punched up a bit.

    I will say that listening to Scherrie sing ballads in their live shows, she often was very vocally animated, which is exactly why she would've been a great addition to Broadway, but I'm not sure her voice lent itself all that well to pop ballads the way that Mary's did. Even in Glass House I think Scherrie was primarily lead on uptempo numbers, although she does a brilliant rendition of "A House Is Not A Home".

    Obviously Susaye was well suited to ballads. But I don't care for her voice, so...

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    there are so many "what if's" with the MSS era. the talent was absolutely there in the studio and the Hollands seemed to be really onto something. then *poof* it was over

    it wasn't solely a motown problem. yes the company did plenty of stupid moves but so did mary. the first being having Pedro manage the group and the second was using the group as a platform to launch her solo career. had motown been managing the group and mary actively working to maintain/lead the group rather then busting out, things might have been different
    Mary's dumb move was certainly allowing Pedro to take over the group. This is something I would imagine 1965 Mary Wilson doing, not 1975 Mary Wilson, a seasoned veteran in the game. But I've never bought the idea that Mary used the group to launch a solo career. She was not the majority lead singer on the albums or in the shows. You can't launch a solo career from the background for half or more album cuts and show repertoire. I think she did what most group members do at a certain point and that's grow up and move on. Remember, she had been a Supreme (Primette) since she was 14 years old. At some point you expect adults to figure out a way to the next "rung" of the ladder in their career as opposed to staying in the same place forever. Some folks can do it, especially when you have a true soulful connection with one's groupmates, as the Tops seemed to do, but Mary was in a group with two younger ladies who probably got her nerves (and vice versa). There's only so much a person can take.

    And then of course there's the Otis Williamses of the music world, who can regroup time and time again without even considering a solo turn. But I put Otis in the same group as Cindy Birdsong: they can obviously sing, but they aren't necessarily lead singers by any stretch of the imagination. Otis Williams definitely aint no Mary Wilson.

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Oh yeah, "Teardrops" is a gorgeous recording. Mary does something with it that even the great Dionne Warwick couldn't do with it. It really should've been a single, maybe punched up a bit.

    I will say that listening to Scherrie sing ballads in their live shows, she often was very vocally animated, which is exactly why she would've been a great addition to Broadway, but I'm not sure her voice lent itself all that well to pop ballads the way that Mary's did. Even in Glass House I think Scherrie was primarily lead on uptempo numbers, although she does a brilliant rendition of "A House Is Not A Home".

    Obviously Susaye was well suited to ballads. But I don't care for her voice, so...
    i thought she was excellent on her version of the slow My World. but she also REALLY ventured into a jazzy/blues approach to it. worked wonderfully but definitely not a pop approach.

    But given her Sup 75 songs with Ivey and Woodford, i think she could have done excellent pop ballads. her vocals on You Can't Stop A Girl In Love, Color My World Blue, Give Out, Bandit and It's All Been Said (which i know isn't Ivey/Woodford) shows a very definite pop style with just a touch of jazz to make it unique and interesting. While I think Mary's version of You Turn Me Around is quite nice, it would still be interesting to hear Scherrie's take on it.

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Mary's dumb move was certainly allowing Pedro to take over the group. This is something I would imagine 1965 Mary Wilson doing, not 1975 Mary Wilson, a seasoned veteran in the game. But I've never bought the idea that Mary used the group to launch a solo career. She was not the majority lead singer on the albums or in the shows. You can't launch a solo career from the background for half or more album cuts and show repertoire. I think she did what most group members do at a certain point and that's grow up and move on. Remember, she had been a Supreme (Primette) since she was 14 years old. At some point you expect adults to figure out a way to the next "rung" of the ladder in their career as opposed to staying in the same place forever. Some folks can do it, especially when you have a true soulful connection with one's groupmates, as the Tops seemed to do, but Mary was in a group with two younger ladies who probably got her nerves (and vice versa). There's only so much a person can take.

    And then of course there's the Otis Williamses of the music world, who can regroup time and time again without even considering a solo turn. But I put Otis in the same group as Cindy Birdsong: they can obviously sing, but they aren't necessarily lead singers by any stretch of the imagination. Otis Williams definitely aint no Mary Wilson.
    see i disagree - i do definitely think she was attempting to launch her solo career. She was doing 50% of the leads AND then all of the "leading" in their interviews and performances. she was attempting to position herself as the focal points and spokesperson for the group.

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Mary's dumb move was certainly allowing Pedro to take over the group. This is something I would imagine 1965 Mary Wilson doing, not 1975 Mary Wilson, a seasoned veteran in the game. But I've never bought the idea that Mary used the group to launch a solo career. She was not the majority lead singer on the albums or in the shows. You can't launch a solo career from the background for half or more album cuts and show repertoire. I think she did what most group members do at a certain point and that's grow up and move on. Remember, she had been a Supreme (Primette) since she was 14 years old. At some point you expect adults to figure out a way to the next "rung" of the ladder in their career as opposed to staying in the same place forever. Some folks can do it, especially when you have a true soulful connection with one's groupmates, as the Tops seemed to do, but Mary was in a group with two younger ladies who probably got her nerves (and vice versa). There's only so much a person can take.

    And then of course there's the Otis Williamses of the music world, who can regroup time and time again without even considering a solo turn. But I put Otis in the same group as Cindy Birdsong: they can obviously sing, but they aren't necessarily lead singers by any stretch of the imagination. Otis Williams definitely aint no Mary Wilson.
    we need to remember that Mary was in an abusive relationship with Pedro, in A lot of abusive relationships there’s a degree of coercive control which may have been the case here.

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i thought she was excellent on her version of the slow My World. but she also REALLY ventured into a jazzy/blues approach to it. worked wonderfully but definitely not a pop approach.

    But given her Sup 75 songs with Ivey and Woodford, i think she could have done excellent pop ballads. her vocals on You Can't Stop A Girl In Love, Color My World Blue, Give Out, Bandit and It's All Been Said (which i know isn't Ivey/Woodford) shows a very definite pop style with just a touch of jazz to make it unique and interesting. While I think Mary's version of You Turn Me Around is quite nice, it would still be interesting to hear Scherrie's take on it.
    Of the ballads, I think only "I Don't Want To Lose You" might have needed Scherrie. I'm not sure who could've saved "Til The Boat"...I love the intro to the song but the rest is so boring. Yet I think the song fit Mary better than it would have Scherrie. As I type this and ponder the issue some more, I think the ballad differences for Mary vs Scherrie is that Scherrie would've probably rocked a power ballad. I could hear Scherrie doing something like Aretha's "Break It To Me Gently", Cheryl Barnes "Easy To Be Hard", or Dee Dee Sharp's cover of "I'm Not In Love". Mary, great ballad singer that she was (and is), she couldn't handle those tunes. But the stuff Mary led like "Turn Me Around" or "Heart Of Me", those songs don't fit Scherrie IMO, they fit Mary. I might could hear Scherrie doing "Can We Love Again", and probably "Teardrops". But the ballads the group was doing at this point largely fit Mary. Scherrie needed ballads that hit you like a ton of bricks.

  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    see i disagree - i do definitely think she was attempting to launch her solo career. She was doing 50% of the leads AND then all of the "leading" in their interviews and performances. she was attempting to position herself as the focal points and spokesperson for the group.
    On the first Scherrie album, of the 10 tracks, Mary has the sole lead on three tracks, Scherrie sole lead on five. On HE, of the 8 tracks, Mary has the sole lead on three, Scherrie three, Susaye one. On MSS, Mary has the lead on two cuts. Isn't it possible that there was now no one in the group preventing Mary's vision of the Supremes being a multi lead group, and thus Mary was getting more leads than ever? From my POV, this is how the Supremes albums should've been structured from the very beginning, regardless of who sang the leads on the singles. It just took the group too many years to catch up. They were a true group at this point.

    And of course Mary would lead the interviews and be the spokesperson for the group. The Supremes belonged to Mary. She was there from day one. Neither Scherrie nor Susaye, not even Cindy, deserved to be the spokesperson of the group over Mary. Add to that Mary probably understood that no woman would ever have the loyalty she has to the Supremes, apart from when Flo and Diana were in the group and equally as invested. After Jean and Lynda departed at the same time, Mary had to put some provisions in place in the event that this happened again. After all, there was no longer a Motown invested in stepping in and helping right things. Of course in the end the group just ran it's course. I really don't think the Supremes had another album in them, not unless someone with power in the industry got behind them, and even then the person would need the ability to rein these three lead singers in because sitting through a performance where three people are competing to sing lead at the same time on the same song (even when only one of them is actually singing lead) wasn't going to put butts in the seats of any high paying gigs.

  42. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by mwmr View Post
    we need to remember that Mary was in an abusive relationship with Pedro, in A lot of abusive relationships there’s a degree of coercive control which may have been the case here.
    Yes, excellent point. It may have been beyond Mary's control.

  43. #43
    I think in many ways the Supremes did end with Jean leaving.
    The 75 album was good but needed tweeking. They left off a few gems..imo.
    HE
    I like the Russ mixs better.more pop..soul.....with A dance feel but the released version was a bit to ... disco.
    The last album...good but I would have dropped Driving Wheel.
    The live shows were a mess...over top singing...rushed medleys....to many Broadway tunes....but a lot of talent

  44. #44
    For me, the end of "The Supremes" came in stages:

    First, Jean, Mary and Cindy appeared in unintentionally cheap-looking white dresses (short in the front, with a tail hanging down in the back) when I saw them in concert in Autumn 1971 and seemed to lack the elegance and polish the group had demonstrated previously. On this occasion, Jean was disciplined and did have stage presence, but it was less compelling than Diana's; Mary's energy and smile still seemed genuine. The studio albums began well, but each was less rewarding than the one before, and much of the material on the Four Tops-duets albums was second-rate. So I lost some interest in the group as time went on.

    Second, there was the photo of Lynda on the Smokey-produced album; in the pre-Internet era, I had no notion that Cindy was gone, and I wondered what was going on.

    Third, there was the departure of Jean and the addition of Scherrie; the rotating door concept was fine for The Rockettes, where substitutions did not affect the overall appearance or performance level, but the comings and goings were not acceptable in a group that I'd come to think of as individuals over the prior dozen years or so.

    Fourth, there was a disastrous appearance on the Merv Griffin(?) show where the women wore hideous, mismatched green dresses and sang, I think, The Boy From Westchester County and/or some other silly song, and the group seemed less than special. At this time, also, Mary and the others began engaging in frantic dancing, trying to distract us from the dismal quality of the songs they were performing and/or trying to persuade us that the music and the group were still exciting.

    Fifth and finally, except for the songs featuring Mary, the last two albums seemed to come from a completely anonymous group, and I did not particularly like t Scherrie or (especially) Susaye; their voices seemed to grate, and the material itself was nothing like the Motown Sound. It could have come from any group, from any studio, and there was nothing appealing or memorable about any of it. Too, the women looked pathetic, whether they wore incredibly ugly new costumes or altered costumes from the glory days as they tried to pretend that they were the group that had all the hits.

  45. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by benross View Post
    For me, the end of "The Supremes" came in stages:

    First, Jean, Mary and Cindy appeared in unintentionally cheap-looking white dresses (short in the front, with a tail hanging down in the back) when I saw them in concert in Autumn 1971 and seemed to lack the elegance and polish the group had demonstrated previously. On this occasion, Jean was disciplined and did have stage presence, but it was less compelling than Diana's; Mary's energy and smile still seemed genuine. The studio albums began well, but each was less rewarding than the one before, and much of the material on the Four Tops-duets albums was second-rate. So I lost some interest in the group as time went on.

    Second, there was the photo of Lynda on the Smokey-produced album; in the pre-Internet era, I had no notion that Cindy was gone, and I wondered what was going on.

    Third, there was the departure of Jean and the addition of Scherrie; the rotating door concept was fine for The Rockettes, where substitutions did not affect the overall appearance or performance level, but the comings and goings were not acceptable in a group that I'd come to think of as individuals over the prior dozen years or so.

    Fourth, there was a disastrous appearance on the Merv Griffin(?) show where the women wore hideous, mismatched green dresses and sang, I think, The Boy From Westchester County and/or some other silly song, and the group seemed less than special. At this time, also, Mary and the others began engaging in frantic dancing, trying to distract us from the dismal quality of the songs they were performing and/or trying to persuade us that the music and the group were still exciting.

    Fifth and finally, except for the songs featuring Mary, the last two albums seemed to come from a completely anonymous group, and I did not particularly like t Scherrie or (especially) Susaye; their voices seemed to grate, and the material itself was nothing like the Motown Sound. It could have come from any group, from any studio, and there was nothing appealing or memorable about any of it. Too, the women looked pathetic, whether they wore incredibly ugly new costumes or altered costumes from the glory days as they tried to pretend that they were the group that had all the hits.
    I agree with everything you say with the exception of the quality of Scherrie and Susaye's voice which i thought were both versatile and distinguished. The final line up consisted of three individuals rather than a united trio. They looked at odds with each other, and the obvious tensions between the three of them was there for all to see. It was a very sad end to the greatest female trio of all time.

  46. #46
    Cindy's return solidified the line up....she was extremely recognizable as a Supreme from the vast DRATS exposure. She had many fans in the camp. I came along after Flo left, so for me Cindy and Mary were the Supremes. They had the best vocal blend.

    Scherrie was the best replacement for Jean....Talented and gorgeous, she upped the energy and the sparkle...and, she was a DETROIT native.

    The group did not need a 3rd lead singer...MSC had a beautiful blend, nothing sounded forced or restrained... with Mary developing her skills, and being a featured vocalist within the group and Scherrie as a main lead, coupled with giving Cindy solo lines was all we needed.

    Both Lynda and Susaye were fine vocalists...but Lynda had too much power and Susaye had a tendency to display too much range within a group setting....particularly live. Both short term Supreme ladies that are better as soloists than group performers.

  47. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    On the first Scherrie album, of the 10 tracks, Mary has the sole lead on three tracks, Scherrie sole lead on five. On HE, of the 8 tracks, Mary has the sole lead on three, Scherrie three, Susaye one. On MSS, Mary has the lead on two cuts. Isn't it possible that there was now no one in the group preventing Mary's vision of the Supremes being a multi lead group, and thus Mary was getting more leads than ever? From my POV, this is how the Supremes albums should've been structured from the very beginning, regardless of who sang the leads on the singles. It just took the group too many years to catch up. They were a true group at this point.

    And of course Mary would lead the interviews and be the spokesperson for the group. The Supremes belonged to Mary. She was there from day one. Neither Scherrie nor Susaye, not even Cindy, deserved to be the spokesperson of the group over Mary. Add to that Mary probably understood that no woman would ever have the loyalty she has to the Supremes, apart from when Flo and Diana were in the group and equally as invested. After Jean and Lynda departed at the same time, Mary had to put some provisions in place in the event that this happened again. After all, there was no longer a Motown invested in stepping in and helping right things. Of course in the end the group just ran it's course. I really don't think the Supremes had another album in them, not unless someone with power in the industry got behind them, and even then the person would need the ability to rein these three lead singers in because sitting through a performance where three people are competing to sing lead at the same time on the same song (even when only one of them is actually singing lead) wasn't going to put butts in the seats of any high paying gigs.
    In addition, I think most of the shelved cuts have Scherrie on lead also.

  48. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by gman View Post
    Cindy's return solidified the line up....she was extremely recognizable as a Supreme from the vast DRATS exposure. She had many fans in the camp. I came along after Flo left, so for me Cindy and Mary were the Supremes. They had the best vocal blend.

    Scherrie was the best replacement for Jean....Talented and gorgeous, she upped the energy and the sparkle...and, she was a DETROIT native.

    The group did not need a 3rd lead singer...MSC had a beautiful blend, nothing sounded forced or restrained... with Mary developing her skills, and being a featured vocalist within the group and Scherrie as a main lead, coupled with giving Cindy solo lines was all we needed.

    Both Lynda and Susaye were fine vocalists...but Lynda had too much power and Susaye had a tendency to display too much range within a group setting....particularly live. Both short term Supreme ladies that are better as soloists than group performers.
    I disagree about Lynda, but I'm with you on Susaye. It's actually a shame that Susaye didn't leave the Supremes with a successful solo career, aside from her writing. But a soloist was probably better suited to her talents than a group. I can't remember who, if anyone, Mary may have said was up for the spot when Cindy left again. I think she said one of the Honey Cone and Merry Clayton auditioned to be Supremes at some point, but I can't recall if it was for Susaye's spot or not.

  49. #49
    Thelma Houston was up for Cindy’s spot. Shelly Clark was up for Jean’s spot and Merry Clayton auditioned to be one of Mary’s background singers.
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I disagree about Lynda, but I'm with you on Susaye. It's actually a shame that Susaye didn't leave the Supremes with a successful solo career, aside from her writing. But a soloist was probably better suited to her talents than a group. I can't remember who, if anyone, Mary may have said was up for the spot when Cindy left again. I think she said one of the Honey Cone and Merry Clayton auditioned to be Supremes at some point, but I can't recall if it was for Susaye's spot or not.

  50. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I disagree about Lynda, but I'm with you on Susaye. It's actually a shame that Susaye didn't leave the Supremes with a successful solo career, aside from her writing. But a soloist was probably better suited to her talents than a group. I can't remember who, if anyone, Mary may have said was up for the spot when Cindy left again. I think she said one of the Honey Cone and Merry Clayton auditioned to be Supremes at some point, but I can't recall if it was for Susaye's spot or not.
    Stevie Wonder recommended Susaye to Pedro Ferrer.

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