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    Mary Wilson - "You're What's Missing In My Life " 1976

    This is the version with Mary doing the complete lead to "You're What's Missing In My Life" from 1976:


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    I like the split vocal version better....WBLS played it...I think they slowed the pitch down slightly. [[They also played Celi Bee's "Macho...A Real Real One" at a very slowed down and more enjoyable speed) I used to slow the speed on Driving Wheel and Let Yourself Go here at home myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gman View Post
    I like the split vocal version better....WBLS played it...I think they slowed the pitch down slightly. [[They also played Celi Bee's "Macho...A Real Real One" at a very slowed down and more enjoyable speed) I used to slow the speed on Driving Wheel and Let Yourself Go here at home myself.
    The lead on the released version was like a seamless switch between Mary and Scherrie. I loved it. I also enjoy hearing this version.

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    this song has just never really done much for me. regardless of the version. Just haven't ever really gotten into it. i prefer the more up tempo numbers on HE

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    this song has just never really done much for me. regardless of the version. Just haven't ever really gotten into it. i prefer the more up tempo numbers on HE
    It's okay, but nothing more. I think it could have sounded better with a full Scherrie lead vocal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    this song has just never really done much for me. regardless of the version. Just haven't ever really gotten into it. i prefer the more up tempo numbers on HE
    This should have been the second single off of "High Energy" but Motown wasn't too smart at that time..........

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    see i disagree. and not really because i don't find the song that compelling. had Walking not been there, i think Missing would have been a strong contender for a moderate hit. but Walking was just SO exciting and SO powerful. to follow up with Missing would just seem too whimpy. It doesn't have the energy that Walking does. it's too low-key and mellow.

    IMO the sound and style that was discovered with Walking is almost like what HDH discovered with Where Did Our Love Go. the MSS grouping now had a sound to work around. it was hard-driving, high-flying, "you go girl!" sound.

    Imagine if they'd released Whisper You Love Me after Where did our love go

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    It's okay, but nothing more. I think it could have sounded better with a full Scherrie lead vocal.
    The full Scherrie lead vocal is also on THE FINAL SESSIONS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    It's okay, but nothing more. I think it could have sounded better with a full Scherrie lead vocal.
    i like Mary's lead for the most part. But the dual lead idea just doesn't seem to fit as well in a trio as it does in a larger group, like the Temps. To me it's just too odd that 1 woman is basically not doing much. At this point you might as well give her a few lines too.

    IMO there was not an appropriate follow up to Walking on the HE album

    the various mary ballads - no way
    Only you - ok but not exciting enough
    HE - a great song but sonically it's WAY different. and a total departure from Walking. too different to follow up
    Keep me moving - this is sort of a poor man's Walking. it's probably the next most exciting disco track but not special enough.
    Missing - nice and middle of the road.

    although the overall quality of the HE album is very strong, it's an album set. i think they were right in moving onto the even stronger MS&S album and should have led with LYG

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    see i disagree. and not really because i don't find the song that compelling. had Walking not been there, i think Missing would have been a strong contender for a moderate hit. but Walking was just SO exciting and SO powerful. to follow up with Missing would just seem too whimpy. It doesn't have the energy that Walking does. it's too low-key and mellow.

    IMO the sound and style that was discovered with Walking is almost like what HDH discovered with Where Did Our Love Go. the MSS grouping now had a sound to work around. it was hard-driving, high-flying, "you go girl!" sound.

    Imagine if they'd released Whisper You Love Me after Where did our love go
    To me, "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do the Walking" should have been massive. I was a teenager then and when I first heard it on the radio, I went right out and bought the album. That powerful intro and the way the song just kept booming all the way through fit very well with what was happening with music at the time.

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    marv you are so right! Walking should have been massive. great disco dance beat, incredible vocal work by the girls. and there's actually lyrics and a story line versus many other dance songs which sacrifice concept for sound, figuring a good beat and hot track is all you need

    my hypothesis is that because Love Hangover was released on the EXACT same day as Walking, it never stood a chance. motown was scared to death that Hangover might be lost for Diana due to 5thD version and so probably EVERYTHING else released right at that time was dumped and all promotional activity shifted to LH. I don't necessarily mean this as a sinister plot. it's just the basic issue of making the strongest bet. the Sups and other smaller artists were not guaranteed successes. if you have $1M in promotional budget to spend and there's the risk of a mega hit with your very top artist, from a business decision it's fairly clear as to what to do.

    Had Walking not been obstructed with LH, i think it would have easily gone Top 20 even with the typical paltry motown promotion behind it.

    Had there not been the angst within the group between Mary/Pedro and Scherrie/Cindy/Susaye, motown would probably have put more behind it. Like if Mary had accepted Berry's offer to manage the group again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    marv you are so right! Walking should have been massive. great disco dance beat, incredible vocal work by the girls. and there's actually lyrics and a story line versus many other dance songs which sacrifice concept for sound, figuring a good beat and hot track is all you need

    my hypothesis is that because Love Hangover was released on the EXACT same day as Walking, it never stood a chance. motown was scared to death that Hangover might be lost for Diana due to 5thD version and so probably EVERYTHING else released right at that time was dumped and all promotional activity shifted to LH. I don't necessarily mean this as a sinister plot. it's just the basic issue of making the strongest bet. the Sups and other smaller artists were not guaranteed successes. if you have $1M in promotional budget to spend and there's the risk of a mega hit with your very top artist, from a business decision it's fairly clear as to what to do.

    Had Walking not been obstructed with LH, i think it would have easily gone Top 20 even with the typical paltry motown promotion behind it.

    Had there not been the angst within the group between Mary/Pedro and Scherrie/Cindy/Susaye, motown would probably have put more behind it. Like if Mary had accepted Berry's offer to manage the group again.
    Scherrie Payne has said that she was at a radio station in Virginia for an interview when someone from Motown called the station and told them to pull "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do the Walking" by the Supremes and start playing "Love Hangover" by Diana Ross

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Scherrie Payne has said that she was at a radio station in Virginia for an interview when someone from Motown called the station and told them to pull "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do the Walking" by the Supremes and start playing "Love Hangover" by Diana Ross
    yeah i've heard that too. i still don't think it was motown being nasty or "we gotta kill that god damn supremes once and for all!!" I think it was the promo men calling and saying "look we need ever spin of LH possible. so if you're struggling to fit all of the motown songs into your programming, then play LH and skip the rest."

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    in looking at other releases by top groups at this time, you have:

    Marvin Gaye I Want You 4/1/75

    The Temps had just released Wings Of Love on 3/10/76. it's only single was Up the Creek. not sure of it's release date but the album wasn't a success for the group and i think was their last work with Bowen

    J5 weren't recording much of anything now as they were trying to break free from motown.

    Commodores had a decent hit with Sweet Love from the Movin' On album

    Miracles had just hit the top of the charts with Love Machine in March 76 and a huge hit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Solomon View Post
    The full Scherrie lead vocal is also on THE FINAL SESSIONS.
    I shall have to give it a listen. I bought the boxset when it first came out, but i don't think i have played it since.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i like Mary's lead for the most part. But the dual lead idea just doesn't seem to fit as well in a trio as it does in a larger group, like the Temps. To me it's just too odd that 1 woman is basically not doing much. At this point you might as well give her a few lines too.

    IMO there was not an appropriate follow up to Walking on the HE album

    the various mary ballads - no way
    Only you - ok but not exciting enough
    HE - a great song but sonically it's WAY different. and a total departure from Walking. too different to follow up
    Keep me moving - this is sort of a poor man's Walking. it's probably the next most exciting disco track but not special enough.
    Missing - nice and middle of the road.

    although the overall quality of the HE album is very strong, it's an album set. i think they were right in moving onto the even stronger MS&S album and should have led with LYG
    I had pretty much lost interest by this time. I loved Scherrie and Susaye, but there were way too many Mary leads for my liking.
    For me The Supremes were no longer Supreme

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    in looking at other releases by top groups at this time, you have:

    Marvin Gaye I Want You 4/1/75

    The Temps had just released Wings Of Love on 3/10/76. it's only single was Up the Creek. not sure of it's release date but the album wasn't a success for the group and i think was their last work with Bowen

    J5 weren't recording much of anything now as they were trying to break free from motown.

    Commodores had a decent hit with Sweet Love from the Movin' On album

    Miracles had just hit the top of the charts with Love Machine in March 76 and a huge hit.
    I Want You is 1976. I bought it the day it hit the stores.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I had pretty much lost interest by this time. I loved Scherrie and Susaye, but there were way too many Mary leads for my liking.
    For me The Supremes were no longer Supreme
    i see what you're saying. i think there are absolutely moments though that had the potential to be a new supremes. Sort of 2 waves

    WAVE 1
    the Ivey and Woodford material on Sup 75 - this is some of the strongest material during the Scherrie years. rightfully, she handles the majority of the leads. But this is excellent mid 70s pop:

    Can't stop a girl
    give out [[scherrie lead version - the others are interesting but pale)
    color my world
    sha la bandit [[this is a bit silly for my taste but decent)
    You turn me around - this is a solid Mary lead

    it's a shame they didn't do more. It's All Been Said is another strong one. Can We Love Again is pretty good. Seed of Love. That's now 8 songs that could have been released as a pop oriented album.

    the majority of their early disco work is ok, at best. He's My Man needed Scherrie on lead. Where Do I Go is ok but generic.

    WAVE 2
    I'm gonna let my heart and a few of the HE tracks [[title track, only you, keep me moving) are strong. And Missing is solid enough.

    then pretty much the entire MS&S album.


    These two waves of studio music shows IMO the potential that the group had. But poor management, Mary's efforts to launch her solo career, total lack of vision and strategy for their live stage work doomed things

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i see what you're saying. i think there are absolutely moments though that had the potential to be a new supremes. Sort of 2 waves

    WAVE 1
    the Ivey and Woodford material on Sup 75 - this is some of the strongest material during the Scherrie years. rightfully, she handles the majority of the leads. But this is excellent mid 70s pop:

    Can't stop a girl
    give out [[scherrie lead version - the others are interesting but pale)
    color my world
    sha la bandit [[this is a bit silly for my taste but decent)
    You turn me around - this is a solid Mary lead

    it's a shame they didn't do more. It's All Been Said is another strong one. Can We Love Again is pretty good. Seed of Love. That's now 8 songs that could have been released as a pop oriented album.

    the majority of their early disco work is ok, at best. He's My Man needed Scherrie on lead. Where Do I Go is ok but generic.

    WAVE 2
    I'm gonna let my heart and a few of the HE tracks [[title track, only you, keep me moving) are strong. And Missing is solid enough.

    then pretty much the entire MS&S album.


    These two waves of studio music shows IMO the potential that the group had. But poor management, Mary's efforts to launch her solo career, total lack of vision and strategy for their live stage work doomed things
    I've come to learn that "Where Is It I Belong" is still pretty popular with folks outside of "Supremes World" LOL! I've read the comments about the recording on Youtube and they were all pretty positive. It was perfect for Adult Contemporary radio or did we call it MOR radio in the 79s?

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    I like both versions but prefer Scherries version by an inch.
    I would have considered it as a possible single.
    On the 75 lp...Mary's leads were lifeless but she sparkled on Can We Love Again. How was that left off

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    Mary's full lead version here is very good. I don't know if I have ever heard Scherrie's full lead on the song, but I am sure it is good as well. I guess that's why they merged the two. I saw them perform it on a local show in Detroit and I thought it was excellent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    I've come to learn that "Where Is It I Belong" is still pretty popular with folks outside of "Supremes World" LOL! I've read the comments about the recording on Youtube and they were all pretty positive. It was perfect for Adult Contemporary radio or did we call it MOR radio in the 79s?
    oh i hate that song lolol. one of the worst ever recorded by the Sups. the lead melody is pretty enough but the lyrics are just stupid. And the backgrounds just sort of chirp the chorus over and over. Hard to believe they picked this track over other Mary leads that were unearthed for the LYG box set

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    agreed - CWLA is about the best Mary track from the Sup 75 songs. and a nice change of pace from the typical ballad she always did. This style of pop song for her is a much better fit than something like He's My Man or This Is Why. both of those songs needed Scherrie's pipes.

    i do wish with CWLA that they worked just a little more on the lyrics for the chorus. add another line in there to break up the monotony a little

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    oh i hate that song lolol. one of the worst ever recorded by the Sups. the lead melody is pretty enough but the lyrics are just stupid. And the backgrounds just sort of chirp the chorus over and over. Hard to believe they picked this track over other Mary leads that were unearthed for the LYG box set
    Totally agree. One of their very worst for sure. Mary sounds bored and bland. The lyrics are banal and the song just drones on and on. How on earth this piece of garbage got through quality control is one of the great mysteries of the world. It should never have been recorded let alone released. One of the most painful songs it has ever been my misfortune to endure.

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    ^lolol i agree. The "capricorn and a love was born" line is the most insipid thing uttered on wax by a Supreme. even more stupid than cooking jam with a raggedy old scarf lol. Or Jean singing about being the stopper in life's tub when heading down the drain. and there's even that shocking and disturbing line in Chained To Yesterday where Jean sings about considering suicide!

    but this is still the worst thing lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    ^lolol i agree. The "capricorn and a love was born" line is the most insipid thing uttered on wax by a Supreme. even more stupid than cooking jam with a raggedy old scarf lol. Or Jean singing about being the stopper in life's tub when heading down the drain. and there's even that shocking and disturbing line in Chained To Yesterday where Jean sings about considering suicide!

    but this is still the worst thing lol
    Ha ha. A truly awful song.

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    was this produced by the Hollands? dumbfounding that they couldn't have come up with a better song.

    and you're right - there's a huge list of better songs left in the can during this time. even something as silly as Mr Boogie would be preferred

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    ^lolol i agree. The "capricorn and a love was born" line is the most insipid thing uttered on wax by a Supreme. even more stupid than cooking jam with a raggedy old scarf lol. Or Jean singing about being the stopper in life's tub when heading down the drain. and there's even that shocking and disturbing line in Chained To Yesterday where Jean sings about considering suicide!

    but this is still the worst thing lol
    I don't think so. Back in the seventies when striking up a conversation with a young lady you wanted to date, "what's your sign?", as in Zodiac sign always came up early in the conversation. The overall sound and Mary's delivery of the song was excellent. It had a mature adult theme to it, which is what a lot of people liked.

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    Listen to how great the backgrounds sound here on "You're What's Missing In My Life". The Supremes were just too tough to beat! LOL!

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    well just a matter of taste then. Sure i get it that they were trying to be a bit more contemporary with the subject of their songs. Early morning love, Where is it i belong. But still, i don't find this track nearly as lovely as You Turn Me Around. Mary's vocals there are lovely.

    so marv - if you were putting together the song list for the lp, would you pick Where Is It I Belong or Can We Love Again?

    IMO they should have gone with the later. during this time, mary was doing about 50% of the leads and working to establish more presence in the group. on the LP mary already had a lovely ballad [[Turn me) and some high-energy dance numbers. CWLA would have been a nice mid-tempo and showed more range. plus i just like the song better

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    I prefer the Scherrie led version of "Missing", but the duet version is great too. It's one of the gems IMO from that time of the group's existence. Mary does a nice job with it on her own but I miss Scherrie. Mary's ballads were among the highlights of the Supremes during the Scherrie years, even more so, I feel, than many of Scherrie's numbers. However, "Where Is It I Belong" is a horrible song. Maybe it isn't horrible, but instead just a song I hate. "I Don't Want to Lose You" is another one. Yikes. Other than that, Mary's ballads are great. Of her uptempo turns, "Early Morning Love" is a fantastic vocal from her. I'm always surprised that she keeps up so well with that track. But uptempo wasn't Mary's forte. "This Is Why I Believe" should've cost Mary her job. That may be the all time worst pairing of a Supreme and a song in the history of the group. She was not the right one.

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    ^I actually [[somewhat) prefer This Is Why to Early Morning Love. neither are sensational but i think i just like the general song of This better.

    but this also demonstrates how mary was using the group to launch her solo career. she's doing leads which, frankly, just about anyone involved would have realized really weren't suited to her. but they also couldn't do an entire album of ballads. Plus she needed to start showing versatility.

    and maybe "launch" is a bit strong of a word. perhaps "post supremes career" would be better. She had little to no public name recognition in 73 when J and L left. and really had not alternatives lined up for employment either. Some have said in the fan rumormill that she appealed to Berry to give the Sups a second chance and not simply can the group. That he sort of begrudgingly went along with it, feeling a bit of sympathy for her. not sure if that's true or not. But anyway, she reformed the group but also had the sense to know that this might not last forever. and if it fell apart again, she needed to be more prepared to do her own thing than she was in 73.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    ^I actually [[somewhat) prefer This Is Why to Early Morning Love. neither are sensational but i think i just like the general song of This better.

    but this also demonstrates how mary was using the group to launch her solo career. she's doing leads which, frankly, just about anyone involved would have realized really weren't suited to her. but they also couldn't do an entire album of ballads. Plus she needed to start showing versatility.

    and maybe "launch" is a bit strong of a word. perhaps "post supremes career" would be better. She had little to no public name recognition in 73 when J and L left. and really had not alternatives lined up for employment either. Some have said in the fan rumormill that she appealed to Berry to give the Sups a second chance and not simply can the group. That he sort of begrudgingly went along with it, feeling a bit of sympathy for her. not sure if that's true or not. But anyway, she reformed the group but also had the sense to know that this might not last forever. and if it fell apart again, she needed to be more prepared to do her own thing than she was in 73.
    I have always hated This is why i believe in you. Dreadful song. Mary is well out of her comfort zone, but i don't think even Scherrie could have saved that hot mess. Early morning love is okay but it was much more suitable to Scherrie's voice. That album could have been really good had they used Scherrie more and Mary less. Very frustrating for Scherrie and for fans of the Supremes.

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    the strongest songs from the Sup 75 sessions are definitely the Ivey/Woodford productions.

    and some of the stronger content was left, for some reason, in the vault

    Can We Start Again
    I Can Never Recover
    Bend a little

    even Dance Fever is stronger than some of the released tracks

    not sure what i think about Mr Boogie lol. verdict is still out

    But Early Morning Love not one of my favs. I know i've certainly made it clear about my thoughts on He's My Man lol. Where Do I Go is ok but not special. Recover is stronger IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    the strongest songs from the Sup 75 sessions are definitely the Ivey/Woodford productions.

    and some of the stronger content was left, for some reason, in the vault

    Can We Start Again
    I Can Never Recover
    Bend a little

    even Dance Fever is stronger than some of the released tracks

    not sure what i think about Mr Boogie lol. verdict is still out

    But Early Morning Love not one of my favs. I know i've certainly made it clear about my thoughts on He's My Man lol. Where Do I Go is ok but not special. Recover is stronger IMO.
    I have to agree with most of what you say, but i do think that He's my man could have been a comebaçk hit had Scherrie been given the full lead. A more forceful lead could have generated more radio play and sales. It was never going to hit big with Mary's bland and sedate delivery. Scherrie would have killed it. Where do i go needed a remix. Scherrie sounded great, but more excitement was needed in the production stakes.

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    ^ agree with all of your points.

    I still think I Can Never Recover was the strongest song to come out of this era. but you're right, Scherrie should have had the primary lead on HMM. especially to start it off with. something with fire. I like the idea of M and C getting a few lines or parts within the song. that would have added some interest and fun

    WDIGFH needed more fire. it's too generic. especially in the background vocals. the intro is pretty strong. the lead is too.

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    I liked the way "He's My Man" was recorded and released. Mary sounds great, as does Cindy and Scherrie.

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    This was the first time I heard the song. This aired around April in 1976. This was Susaye's television debut with the group. Coincidentally, they were on Soul Train later that same day:


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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    ^I actually [[somewhat) prefer This Is Why to Early Morning Love. neither are sensational but i think i just like the general song of This better.

    but this also demonstrates how mary was using the group to launch her solo career. she's doing leads which, frankly, just about anyone involved would have realized really weren't suited to her. but they also couldn't do an entire album of ballads. Plus she needed to start showing versatility.

    and maybe "launch" is a bit strong of a word. perhaps "post supremes career" would be better. She had little to no public name recognition in 73 when J and L left. and really had not alternatives lined up for employment either. Some have said in the fan rumormill that she appealed to Berry to give the Sups a second chance and not simply can the group. That he sort of begrudgingly went along with it, feeling a bit of sympathy for her. not sure if that's true or not. But anyway, she reformed the group but also had the sense to know that this might not last forever. and if it fell apart again, she needed to be more prepared to do her own thing than she was in 73.
    You may be giving everyone involved too much credit, considering that when Mary did strike out on her own she was given a debut album almost full of songs anyone involved should've known weren't suited to her abilities.

    I think Mary wrote in her second book about how she had to fight to get the post Jean Supremes a contract. Motown was definitely okay with letting Mary go her, um, merry way at that point. I'd have to pull Supreme Faith out and re-read that section to re-familiarize myself with the ins and out from Mary's recollection. I'm not sure if Mary appealed to Gordy directly, but if so, and regardless of whoever greenlit the new new Supremes, I suspect that it had less to do with any loyalty or desire for Mary and more to do with Scherrie's addition and the belief that she may be worth a chance. Add Cindy in the mix and Motown may have seen new life possibilities for the group, even if the label still wasn't falling over itself to give them a major push.

    I realize I'm coming across as a broken record here, but once again I have to point out that it was a big mistake of Mary's not to take Jean and Lynda to another record label, whether they be under the name Supremes or something else. IMO they were the most dynamic of the 70s groupings and could've competed with any other female group out at the time. Very hip, very current look and sound had they been allowed more room to stretch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    ^ agree with all of your points.

    I still think I Can Never Recover was the strongest song to come out of this era. but you're right, Scherrie should have had the primary lead on HMM. especially to start it off with. something with fire. I like the idea of M and C getting a few lines or parts within the song. that would have added some interest and fun

    WDIGFH needed more fire. it's too generic. especially in the background vocals. the intro is pretty strong. the lead is too.
    I'm starting to agree with your thoughts on "He's My Man". I don't think Mary takes anything away from the song, but I definitely think Scherrie doing the main lead might have given it a bit of umph that it didn't have as released.

    "Recover" really is a great tune. The more I listen to it the more I'm thinking that it was a potential hit. The track, the storyline, Scherrie's lead, the background vocals...even Mary kills the bit they give her on the break. Definitely a missed opportunity.

    I love "Where Do I Go" but I'm not sure there was much more that could've gone into the song that would've made it a hit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    You may be giving everyone involved too much credit, considering that when Mary did strike out on her own she was given a debut album almost full of songs anyone involved should've known weren't suited to her abilities.

    I think Mary wrote in her second book about how she had to fight to get the post Jean Supremes a contract. Motown was definitely okay with letting Mary go her, um, merry way at that point. I'd have to pull Supreme Faith out and re-read that section to re-familiarize myself with the ins and out from Mary's recollection. I'm not sure if Mary appealed to Gordy directly, but if so, and regardless of whoever greenlit the new new Supremes, I suspect that it had less to do with any loyalty or desire for Mary and more to do with Scherrie's addition and the belief that she may be worth a chance. Add Cindy in the mix and Motown may have seen new life possibilities for the group, even if the label still wasn't falling over itself to give them a major push.

    I realize I'm coming across as a broken record here, but once again I have to point out that it was a big mistake of Mary's not to take Jean and Lynda to another record label, whether they be under the name Supremes or something else. IMO they were the most dynamic of the 70s groupings and could've competed with any other female group out at the time. Very hip, very current look and sound had they been allowed more room to stretch.
    Mary getting the Supremes a new contract did not have anything to do with Scherrie. She had been with the group for well over a year before Motown renewed or signed new contracts with the Supremes. Berry was not involved. At that point it was Ewart Abner who was President of Motown Records. He had the nerve to threaten Mary. That's right, told her they could get any three other singers and call them the Supremes. He must have been crazy. He also didn't know who he was dealing with. Eventually, Mary got them signed and they recorded the 1975 album. I don't know why you guys have not learned yet not to underestimate Mary Wilson. Think about it.........LOL!

    I do not care if you do not like her or how she sings or whatever. She is one tough cookie. She doesn't crumble.
    Last edited by marv2; 12-20-2019 at 11:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    You may be giving everyone involved too much credit, considering that when Mary did strike out on her own she was given a debut album almost full of songs anyone involved should've known weren't suited to her abilities.

    I think Mary wrote in her second book about how she had to fight to get the post Jean Supremes a contract. Motown was definitely okay with letting Mary go her, um, merry way at that point. I'd have to pull Supreme Faith out and re-read that section to re-familiarize myself with the ins and out from Mary's recollection. I'm not sure if Mary appealed to Gordy directly, but if so, and regardless of whoever greenlit the new new Supremes, I suspect that it had less to do with any loyalty or desire for Mary and more to do with Scherrie's addition and the belief that she may be worth a chance. Add Cindy in the mix and Motown may have seen new life possibilities for the group, even if the label still wasn't falling over itself to give them a major push.

    I realize I'm coming across as a broken record here, but once again I have to point out that it was a big mistake of Mary's not to take Jean and Lynda to another record label, whether they be under the name Supremes or something else. IMO they were the most dynamic of the 70s groupings and could've competed with any other female group out at the time. Very hip, very current look and sound had they been allowed more room to stretch.
    Mary didn't need Jean and Lynda, but she did need the name "The Supremes". She had invested too much time and energy into building that brand up into a World famous name. She didn't have to be the lead singer, but they would not have been the group as we knew them without her. The Supremes didn't make any Earth-shattering records with Jean and Lynda in the group with Mary, although "Bad Weather" could have been promoted to hit status by Motown. The Supremes also sounded great with Scherrie and Cindy, along with Mary and could have had some Pop hits with the right promotion and backing from the label. To go somewhere and start from scratch coming from the level Mary was at or had been with "The Supremes" just did not make a lot of sense from a business standpoint.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Mary getting the Supremes a new contract did not have anything to do with Scherrie. She had been with the group for well over a year before Motown renewed or signed new contracts with the Supremes. Berry was not involved. At that point it was Ewart Abner who was President of Motown Records. He had the nerve to threaten Mary. That's right, told her they could get any three other singers and call them the Supremes. He must have been crazy. He also didn't know who he was dealing with. Eventually, Mary got them signed and they recorded the 1975 album. I don't why you guys have not learned yet not to underestimate Mary Wilson. Think about it.........LOL!

    I do not care if you do not like her or how she sings or whatever. She is one tough cookie. She doesn't crumble.
    No Scherrie, no new Supremes contract. But I do agree, Mary isn't one to crumble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Mary didn't need Jean and Lynda, but she did need the name "The Supremes". She had invested too much time and energy into building that brand up into a World famous name. She didn't have to be the lead singer, but they would not have been the group as we knew them without her. The Supremes didn't make any Earth-shattering records with Jean and Lynda in the group with Mary, although "Bad Weather" could have been promoted to hit status by Motown. The Supremes also sounded great with Scherrie and Cindy, along with Mary and could have had some Pop hits with the right promotion and backing from the label. To go somewhere and start from scratch coming from the level Mary was at or had been with "The Supremes" just did not make a lot of sense from a business standpoint.
    Uh, Mary obviously needed Jean and Lynda because she couldn't do it on her own. She writes in her second book how during the sessions for Supremes 75 that she realized she was not ready to be the sole lead singer, so she sure as hell wasn't ready to make a go at a solo career when Jean and Lynda left. The name Supremes had value to it, but most of that value now is in the fact that Mary has to bill herself with it in order for most places to even book her because the only hits she's had were all as a member of the Supremes. My hypothesis is that Mary, Jean and Lynda could've gone to any number of powerful record labels and gotten a major record deal, worked with top notch producers, and had a whole team of people behind them that would've propelled them into a new and improved singing group, like how the Bluebelles became Labelle. New name, new label, eventual success. But success for Mary, Jean and Lynda would've probably come sooner rather than later because Jean already had a voice that was recognizable to the public. And at another label under another name, the three ladies could've stepped out of the shadow of Supremes past and been able to become a funkier, more 70s type of group, like the Emotions or the Pointer Sisters.

    Had the new grouping gone to another label and hit big, both singles and albums, some of which would surely feature Mary on lead, when it was time for Mary to step out on her own, she could do so without billing herself as Mary Wilson of/and the Supremes. She could just be Mary Wilson, now cutting her own successful albums and hit singles. Mary staying at Motown worked out so that she could hold onto the name Supremes which is to her advantage now. I'm talking about a scenario where Mary wouldn't need the name Supremes at all, which you better believe is what she wishes more than having to identify herself with a group she hasn't been with in 40 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    No Scherrie, no new Supremes contract. But I do agree, Mary isn't one to crumble.
    You can believe what you want, but Motown was not interested in Scherrie Payne. Berry Gordy, years later pretended that he didn't even know Jean had left the group. I don't believe him. After Mary left, he killed the group. Motown could have pulled out all the stops then to promote "Partners" featuring Scherrie Payne and Susaye Greene, but they didn't. When Mary started in on Motown in 1974 about a new Supremes contract, they were not talking about Scherrie Payne or Cindy Birdsong. By that point, Mary Wilson Inc [[or whatever she was calling her corporation.....), was "The Supremes" and any two vocalist she had with her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Uh, Mary obviously needed Jean and Lynda because she couldn't do it on her own. She writes in her second book how during the sessions for Supremes 75 that she realized she was not ready to be the sole lead singer, so she sure as hell wasn't ready to make a go at a solo career when Jean and Lynda left. The name Supremes had value to it, but most of that value now is in the fact that Mary has to bill herself with it in order for most places to even book her because the only hits she's had were all as a member of the Supremes. My hypothesis is that Mary, Jean and Lynda could've gone to any number of powerful record labels and gotten a major record deal, worked with top notch producers, and had a whole team of people behind them that would've propelled them into a new and improved singing group, like how the Bluebelles became Labelle. New name, new label, eventual success. But success for Mary, Jean and Lynda would've probably come sooner rather than later because Jean already had a voice that was recognizable to the public. And at another label under another name, the three ladies could've stepped out of the shadow of Supremes past and been able to become a funkier, more 70s type of group, like the Emotions or the Pointer Sisters.

    Had the new grouping gone to another label and hit big, both singles and albums, some of which would surely feature Mary on lead, when it was time for Mary to step out on her own, she could do so without billing herself as Mary Wilson of/and the Supremes. She could just be Mary Wilson, now cutting her own successful albums and hit singles. Mary staying at Motown worked out so that she could hold onto the name Supremes which is to her advantage now. I'm talking about a scenario where Mary wouldn't need the name Supremes at all, which you better believe is what she wishes more than having to identify herself with a group she hasn't been with in 40 years.
    You may think Mary needed Jean and Lynda, but she didn't. You saw how she went right ahead and regrouped the Supremes without them. I can promise you she had no "tossin' and turnin' " sleepless nights over it either. In that regard, she was very much like Berry Gordy. Now, had Motown threw some support behind her and the group, they could have continued nicely well into the 80s and beyond. When Motown got the idea to re-group the Supremes in 1982, they were not talking about bringing Jean and Lynda back. They could have gone directly to Scherrie, but they didn't. They went to Mary Wilson and when they could not come to an agreement with her, the whole thing was dropped.

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    Oh, and another thing. The ONLY reason the Supremes were "allowed" to continue after Diane left was out of loyalty to Mary Wilson, along with the fact that there was money still to be made from "Supremes" records.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    You may think Mary needed Jean and Lynda, but she didn't. You saw how she went right ahead and regrouped the Supremes without them. I can promise you she had no "tossin' and turnin' " sleepless nights over it either. In that regard, she was very much like Berry Gordy. Now, had Motown threw some support behind her and the group, they could have continued nicely well into the 80s and beyond. When Motown got the idea to re-group the Supremes in 1982, they were not talking about bringing Jean and Lynda back. They could have gone directly to Scherrie, but they didn't. They went to Mary Wilson and when they could not come to an agreement with her, the whole thing was dropped.
    I think I get what you're saying, but you and I are talking about two different things. If your point is that Mary didn't need Jean and Lynda to reform the Supremes, obviously you're right since she went right ahead and picked up the pieces after those two ladies exited and reformed the group with Cindy and Scherrie. But that's not what I'm talking about. I was talking about the lineup of Mary, Jean and Lynda being perfect for success at that period of time and since Motown was not backing them the way that they thought they should've been backed [[the fact that "Bad Weather" was not a hit, even with Stevie's involvement, screams Motown wasn't fully involved), they were the perfect lineup to take to another record label. I fully believe that somewhere else, under someone's care, Mary, Jean and Lynda would've been a successful singing group during the 1970s, assuming that their egos allowed them to remain together for at least a few more years. Mary deciding to remain at Motown barely did the Supremes any favor, and certainly didn't do her solo career any favor either. Mary Wilson is a very talented lady. There's no good reason why we rarely talk about her musical work except in relation to the Supremes.

    And furthermore, while Mary and any two girls may have been able to become Supremes after Jean and Lynda left, in order for Motown to sign Mary she had to have two other girls. If it was all about Mary, Motown would've given her a solo deal when Jean and Lynda left instead of leaving Mary [[and by extension the Supremes) in limbo. She basically had to beg the label to re-sign the group, and I don't think they would have done so if it were not for the potential of Scherrie. Although I do think you have a valid point about "Partners".

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Oh, and another thing. The ONLY reason the Supremes were "allowed" to continue after Diane left was out of loyalty to Mary Wilson, along with the fact that there was money still to be made from "Supremes" records.
    The only reason the Supremes were allowed to continue is because of the money that was still to be made on the name "Supremes". While there is no doubt in my mind that Gordy held affection for Mary, if he thought a Diana-less Supremes could not succeed, he would've disbanded the group and either given Mary a solo contract or sent her and Cindy on their, um, merry way. The truth is that all of the major groups at Motown were allowed to continue after losing lead singers, with the exception of Martha and the Vandellas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    The only reason the Supremes were allowed to continue is because of the money that was still to be made on the name "Supremes". While there is no doubt in my mind that Gordy held affection for Mary, if he thought a Diana-less Supremes could not succeed, he would've disbanded the group and either given Mary a solo contract or sent her and Cindy on their, um, merry way. The truth is that all of the major groups at Motown were allowed to continue after losing lead singers, with the exception of Martha and the Vandellas.
    that's correct. Mary had really no other options in late 73 and there were still bookings for the Supremes to be fulfilled. So S and C joined and the group continued to tour. they were still a solid concert attraction and this helped convince motown to give them another try. I've heard that motown really wanted Scherrie as the lead. sure M and C could be highlighted now and then but i believe the brass wanted S like they had J. M and Pedro insisted she be given a much larger share of the leads plus was the leader on stage during the shows. that helped to start unraveling whatever little support motown was planning for the group

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