Flo and Mary Not On Reflections per Eddie Holland

[RanRan79]

also your absence here has been noticed and missed. I know some of the discussed, unfortunately, get heated. do hope that you'll stay around - love your posts

I've also noticed and missed your presence. The posts and posters can get truly ridiculous, even disgusting. But this is still a valuable forum for my love of Motown, The Supremes and Diana Ross. I hope you will continue to check in. I really appreciate your thoughtful posts.

I appreciate your kindness guys. My self imposed break was just that...a break. It wasn't meant to be permanent. That would've made too many folks in the forum happy and I figured to come back just in time for Christmas to spoil their fun.

[RanRan79]

I dont post much on here but do read the occasional thread. The threads can get too hefty for me sometimes lol. I think it's not right by saying we have to take this as a fact and the doubters have to get over it. Everyone has their own opinion and views, please respect that. These songs were recorded more than 50 years ago and I'm sure Eddie, Mary, the Andantes and the rest can't remember every single session at the studio. That's only human after all. Mary wrote in her book that this was the last single Flo appears on, now Eddie says neither of them were on the single. Are there any other biographies, books with contradicting memories of these sessions?

Saying "get over it" wasn't meant to disrespect anyone's right to an opinion. What troubles me is when the truth is apparent to all but a few folks who sometimes prefer to live in an ignorant bliss than accept the reality. The truth is that most songs recorded and/or released while Flo was a member of the group contain the voices of the three most famous Supremes, even as their vocals were augmented every now and then with one or more members of the Andantes. The truth is also that every now and then the only Supreme on a track is the lead vocalist, which of course was overwhelmingly Diana. Some fans refuse to accept this fact and I do think they should get over it.

I do agree, however, that because many of these recollected revelations take place decades after the fact, that sometimes the participants may get it wrong. I do trust the word of the guys who do the expandeds as they cull their information straight from the tapes and notes as opposed to relying on memory.

[RanRan79]

They also said that Florence Ballard is on that record, although I have never heard her voice on it. The discrepancy could come from age.

I wonder if perhaps Mary's voice is so prominent as a compromise for the debate that occurred regarding who was best for lead singer on the track.

[RanRan79]

If the stories over the years are correct, Eddie only worked with Diana while Lamont worked with Mary and Flo and since Diana usually records her leads separately I’m not surprised Eddie said that. Whether it’s true or no that’s a different story.

That's an interesting and excellent point. If this is the way it worked, Eddie wouldn't be the most reliable memory of who is singing backup.

[RanRan79]

Oh boy, in this case silence is not golden. With all due respect to Mr Holland's memory, Mary is on "Reflections."

And there it is. Thank you George. It's good to know all the Supremes weren't replaced in the background for this gem of a song, though it sucks that Flo isn't on it.

[RanRan79]

DONT LEAVE ME RANRAN, I CANT DO THIS PLACE WITHOUT YOOOOOOUuuuuuuu!!!!!!!!

I'm still here Tom. Ready to cause some trouble?

[marv2]

I wonder if perhaps Mary's voice is so prominent as a compromise for the debate that occurred regarding who was best for lead singer on the track.

I am almost certain of that.

[thanxal]

I appreciate your kindness guys. My self imposed break was just that...a break. It wasn't meant to be permanent. That would've made too many folks in the forum happy and I figured to come back just in time for Christmas to spoil their fun.

Just admit that you took the break to sing background with the Andantes. C'mon, stop playing with our emotions.

[RanRan79]

Just admit that you took the break to sing background with the Andantes. C'mon, stop playing with our emotions.

I sure did. Me and the Andantes will be the featured backing vocalists on Diana's upcoming album release, having overdubbed our vocals over Mary's doubletracked backing vocals. There's one cut that will be on the album that if you listen very closely you can hear Mary singing, someone mention RTL, and then Diana scream for Mary to be escorted out of the studio. That someone was me. All a part of my master plan to get my girls the Andantes to take their rightful place beside me and behind Diana, where everyone who has ever sung a note deserves to be.

[floyjoy678]

I sure did. Me and the Andantes will be the featured backing vocalists on Diana's upcoming album release, having overdubbed our vocals over Mary's doubletracked backing vocals. There's one cut that will be on the album that if you listen very closely you can hear Mary singing, someone mention RTL, and then Diana scream for Mary to be escorted out of the studio. That someone was me. All a part of my master plan to get my girls the Andantes to take their rightful place beside me and behind Diana, where everyone who has ever sung a note deserves to be.

RanRan, me and two of the Andantes went into the studio the day after and overdubbed our vocals over yours.

[TYK1986]

Saying "get over it" wasn't meant to disrespect anyone's right to an opinion. What troubles me is when the truth is apparent to all but a few folks who sometimes prefer to live in an ignorant bliss than accept the reality. The truth is that most songs recorded and/or released while Flo was a member of the group contain the voices of the three most famous Supremes, even as their vocals were augmented every now and then with one or more members of the Andantes. The truth is also that every now and then the only Supreme on a track is the lead vocalist, which of course was overwhelmingly Diana. Some fans refuse to accept this fact and I do think they should get over it.

I do agree, however, that because many of these recollected revelations take place decades after the fact, that sometimes the participants may get it wrong. I do trust the word of the guys who do the expandeds as they cull their information straight from the tapes and notes as opposed to relying on memory.

Don't worry about it. I know what you mean. I would even agree with you on the "get over it" when it comes to discussing some other songs [[am not going to say which ones to avoid conflict lol). I always wear headphones when listening to music. I seem to enjoy it more that way. For me it also helps to hear certain elements I otherwise wouldn't hear. I never really heard Mary on Reflections till I listened to it through headphones.

[daviddh]

Don't worry about it. I know what you mean. I would even agree with you on the "get over it" when it comes to discussing some other songs [[am not going to say which ones to avoid conflict lol). I always wear headphones when listening to music. I seem to enjoy it more that way. For me it also helps to hear certain elements I otherwise wouldn't hear. I never really heard Mary on Reflections till I listened to it through headphones.

I totally agree, I listen thru my headphones as well and the sounds are more clear to me. I agree ,while listening thru the headphones you can hear Mary on the track.

we did not live these ladies lives, and they were controlled by men. it is my opinion they loved each other and still probably do but the business seperated them ….. these were young ladies back then and are also human beings and are no different than anyone else. many other groups have had issues....just last year Fleetwood mac fired an original member and it didn't get nearly the pr that the supremes seem to get. hmmmm.
ok George we need Reflections expanded... like now...….its almost Christmas and most of us here have been good......

[BayouMotownMan]

He was trippin'. You hear Mary Wilson on "Reflections". So not to waste too much of your time on this...AGAIN, go to 2:11 and listen. You'll hear Mary Wilson's low voice echoing the lyrics sung by Diana Ross. Now get back to watching the Impeachment hearings :

ROFL you don't hear Mary at 2:11. But you do hear her at the end of the song. Mary and another singer are on this track.

Mary and Flo also recorder In and Out Of Love. But by the time it was issued Flo was out, Cindy was in so Gordy ordered their backing vocals wiped off and the Andantes are on there. From then on the Andantes are on most of the Diana Ross & The Supremes recordings.

[Circa 1824]

ok ..….its almost Christmas and most of us here have been good......

Speak for yourself .... lol

[daviddh]

I thought that The Happening... Reflections and In and Out Of Love were recorded on the same sessions.???

[blackguy69]

Overdubbed not wiped out.

ROFL you don't hear Mary at 2:11. But you do hear her at the end of the song. Mary and another singer are on this track.

Mary and Flo also recorder In and Out Of Love. But by the time it was issued Flo was out, Cindy was in so Gordy ordered their backing vocals wiped off and the Andantes are on there. From then on the Andantes are on most of the Diana Ross & The Supremes recordings.

[jobeterob]

Love it how fans listen for Mary’s voice at 2:11 or 2:41 and the Andantes at the beginning of SITNOL

And other than the fans, no one cares or knows the difference

[thanxal]

I sure did. Me and the Andantes will be the featured backing vocalists on Diana's upcoming album release, having overdubbed our vocals over Mary's doubletracked backing vocals. There's one cut that will be on the album that if you listen very closely you can hear Mary singing, someone mention RTL, and then Diana scream for Mary to be escorted out of the studio. That someone was me. All a part of my master plan to get my girls the Andantes to take their rightful place beside me and behind Diana, where everyone who has ever sung a note deserves to be.

Sleepin' your way to the top. I see how you are.

[blackguy69]

Apparently you do since you made a point to mention it.

Love it how fans listen for Mary’s voice at 2:11 or 2:41 and the Andantes at the beginning of SITNOL

And other than the fans, no one cares or knows the difference

[midnightman]

Love it how fans listen for Mary’s voice at 2:11 or 2:41 and the Andantes at the beginning of SITNOL

And other than the fans, no one cares or knows the difference

Strange comment, Rob lol

Mary and Flo and the Andantes are on "Stop!" with Diana lol

Let's dead that claim, please!

[RanRan79]

Sleepin' your way to the top. I see how you are.

What can I say? I might be a better "sleeper" than singer.

[blackguy69]

I know this is coming late but for the naysayers: