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  1. #1

    Phil Spector's Influence On Motown

    Philles/Motown Gary's Part J of his series about Phil Spector features a Three Volume collection of selected non-Spector records that sound to be strikingly under his influence.

    Among the 74 songs that were chosen are a few from Motown and for fun I thought I'd single them out here in a thread of their own.

    First up: from Volume One -"Phil's Spectre (1): A Wall Of Soundalikes" (ACE CDCHD 978)-

    The Supremes RUN RUN RUN :

    2) THE SUPREMES:
    "Run, Run, Run"
    (Brian Holland - Lamont Dozier - Eddie Holland)
    Producer: H-D-H
    Label: Motown (1964)
    https://youtu.be/ml30nOkXipQ



    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 11-28-2019 at 02:04 AM.

  2. #2
    I always liked Run Run Run....it is a bit busy in the background....but I don't I'D it with Spector at all...not enough "clang" Spector seemed to like a lot of high pitch instruments doing percussion things upfront

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    Philles/Motown Gary's Part J of his series about Phil Spector features a Three Volume collection of selected non-Spector records that sound to be strikingly under his influence.

    Among the 74 songs that were chosen are a few from Motown and for fun I thought I'd single them out here in a thread of their own.

    First up: from Volume One -"Phil's Spectre (1): A Wall Of Soundalikes" (ACE CDCHD 978)-

    The Supremes RUN RUN RUN :






    Any thoughts?
    I say that H-D-H were thinking of The Crystals' classic "Da Doo Run Run" when they wrote "Run Run Run" for The Supremes. Although it doesn't have the density of a Phil Spector production, it's easy to see the influence he had on this song.

  4. #4
    This was before they finally found that winning formula with the Supremes...

    Phil Spector was just as influenced by Motown though. He recalled being amazed hearing Marvin's Stubborn Kind of Fellow on the radio in 1962/1963 and had to stop his car from avoiding a crash at the time.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    This was before they finally found that winning formula with the Supremes...

    Phil Spector was just as influenced by Motown though. He recalled being amazed hearing Marvin's Stubborn Kind of Fellow on the radio in 1962/1963 and had to stop his car from avoiding a crash at the time.
    No it wasn't. They had got a Top 25 Hit with the Supremes before "Run, Run, Run" with 1963's "When The Lovelight Starts Shining Through His Eyes". They were also scoring hits with Martha & The Vandellas before this record.
    I don't believe Motown or Phil Spector influenced one another. Their respective sounds were still too new and being developed simultaneously.
    Last edited by marv2; 11-28-2019 at 05:53 PM.

  6. #6
    I always think of David Rose's The Stripper when I hear Run, Run, Run. The two songs sound nothing alike, but Run, Run, Run has the sound of a hurried strip show. Go Figure.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by nabob View Post
    I always think of David Rose's The Stripper when I hear Run, Run, Run. The two songs sound nothing alike, but Run, Run, Run has the sound of a hurried strip show. Go Figure.
    The Temptations' '(Loneliness Made Me Realize) It's You That I Need" reminds me of a slightly slowed down sounding "Run, Run, Run". From the intro to David's first lyrics of that song. Compare his opening on it to Diane's opening on "Run, Run, Run".

  8. #8
    Run Run Run sounds more to me like HDH in their embryonic period still developing and searching for that patented HDH sound...not quite there, but well on the way... It was also a case of Bari Sax overload (either Beans Bowles or more likely Mike Terry) that in their future work cut back on for more tasteful baritone sax fills instead of stepping all over the entire song... I don't see a lot of Spector there, although I have no doubt songwriters and producers listened to a lot of radio back then and certain elements were bound to filter through, knowingly or through a sort of musical osmosis...

  9. #9
    H-D-H did do a reasonable attempt at replicating the Phil Spector sound at the end of '63 with The Darnells "Too Hurt To Cry". In reality "The Darnells" were The Marvelettes with a change of name and label, so the thinking behind this release is mysterious to say the least!

    Roger


  10. #10
    Now THAT (Too Hurt To Cry) does sound more along the lines of a Crystals/Blossoms Spector song... I don't recall hearing that song before..'

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by StuBass1 View Post
    Run Run Run sounds more to me like HDH in their embryonic period still developing and searching for that patented HDH sound...not quite there, but well on the way... It was also a case of Bari Sax overload (either Beans Bowles or more likely Mike Terry) that in their future work cut back on for more tasteful baritone sax fills instead of stepping all over the entire song... I don't see a lot of Spector there, although I have no doubt songwriters and producers listened to a lot of radio back then and certain elements were bound to filter through, knowingly or through a sort of musical osmosis...
    The sax seems overused to the point of distraction :



    almost like a kazoo!

    it would certainly make sense when trying to find a successful sound for an undeveloped female vocal group that HDH would explore what was working for other girl groups and see what might be worth adopting in terms of song themes , vocal arrangements, and music styles and gimmicks.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    The sax seems overused to the point of distraction :



    almost like a kazoo!

    it would certainly make sense when trying to find a successful sound for an undeveloped female vocal group that HDH would explore what was working for other girl groups and see what might be worth adopting in terms of song themes , vocal arrangements, and music styles and gimmicks.
    The Kazoo was used on "Love Is Like An Itching In My Heart".

  13. #13
    Run, Run, Run - which I have always quite liked - does sound somewhat 'wall of sound'-ish compared to 'Lovelight' which sounds pure Motown.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by roger View Post
    H-D-H did do a reasonable attempt at replicating the Phil Spector sound at the end of '63 with The Darnells "Too Hurt To Cry". In reality "The Darnells" were The Marvelettes with a change of name and label, so the thinking behind this release is mysterious to say the least!

    Roger

    StuBass1:

    Now THAT (Too Hurt To Cry) does sound more along the lines of a Crystals/Blossoms Spector song... I don't recall hearing that song before..'

    Nice observation guys! And the perfect lead-in to the next Motown single to be found on Volume One -"Phil's Spectre (1): A Wall Of Soundalikes" (ACE CDCHD 978)-

    which indeed happens to be:


    5) THE DARNELLS:
    "To Hurt To Cry (Too Much In Love To Say Goodbye)"
    (Brian Holland - Lamont Dozier - Eddie Holland)
    Producer: H-D-H
    Label: Gordy (1963)
    https://youtu.be/zg7G8tM4U9g

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by StuBass1 View Post
    Run Run Run sounds more to me like HDH in their embryonic period still developing and searching for that patented HDH sound...not quite there, but well on the way... It was also a case of Bari Sax overload (either Beans Bowles or more likely Mike Terry) that in their future work cut back on for more tasteful baritone sax fills instead of stepping all over the entire song... I don't see a lot of Spector there, although I have no doubt songwriters and producers listened to a lot of radio back then and certain elements were bound to filter through, knowingly or through a sort of musical osmosis...
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    That's GOT to be Mike Terry. By the way, I don't think "Run, Run, Run" was influenced at all by Phil Spector.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    Nice observation guys! And the perfect lead-in to the next Motown single to be found on Volume One -"Phil's Spectre (1): A Wall Of Soundalikes" (ACE CDCHD 978)-

    which indeed happens to be:
    Name:  av-5.jpg
Views: 61
Size:  21.1 KB
    The Darnells' "Too Hurt To Cry, and Too Much In Love To Say Goodbye". This was HDH just trying to prove to the Spector worshipers that they could produce songs just like Phil, any time they'd want to. They just didn't want to. They had their OWN idea of what was good.

  17. #17
    ^ And in this house, Motown > Wall of Sound, though Be My Baby, River Deep, Mountain High and You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' are the greatest songs ever produced.

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