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  1. #1
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    ‘In And Out Of Love’: Florence Ballard’s Final Supremes Session

    November 11, 2019By Paul Sexton

    The group performed their new Holland-Dozier-Holland song on ‘The Ed Sullivan Show,’ but it peaked at No. 9 in the US.

    If the Supremes were confronted with the unfamiliar experience of not topping the Billboard Hot 100 when ‘Reflections’ stopped in runner-up spot, there was an even greater shock in store. That single, the first to give Diana Ross “above the title” billing, had followed four singles in a row by the group that topped both the pop and R&B lists.

    On 11 November 1967, Diana and the Supremes hit the Hot 100 at a confident No. 65 with their latest Holland-Dozier-Holland creation, ‘In And Out Of Love.’ Written with the working title ‘Summer Good, Summer Bad’, its vocal session in June was a poignant farewell for Florence Ballard, at what became her last track date. Soon afterwards, she was summarily removed from the group and replaced by Cindy Birdsong. To add further insult, her vocals on the recording, and Mary Wilson’s, were then overdubbed for those of the Andantes.

    Backed by another HDH song, their version of the Isley Brothers‘ ‘I Guess I’ll Always Love You,’ the Motown single had a huge promotional leg-up when the Supremes were booked to perform it on the 19 November edition of The Ed Sullivan Show. Now featuring Birdsong, they also sang ‘Greensleeves’ and ‘Thou Swell’ and were joined on the broadcast by labelmates the Temptations, who did ‘Hello Young Lovers’ and ‘Don’t Look Back’ and joined the Supremes for a medley of each other’s hits. The show additionally featured a clip from the brand new movie Dr. Dolittle, with Rex Harrison singing ‘Talk To The Animals.’

    Billboard described ‘In And Out Of Love’ as “a highly rhythmic side, much in the vein of ‘You Can’t Hurry Love,’ that has all the ingredients for high chart honours. As usual, the group’s inimitable bounce and drive are hard to match and just as hard to resist.” Rival trade magazine Record World declared confidently that the 45 would be “No. 1 in three and a half weeks.” But those high chart honours were not to be quite as high as expected.

    In the Supremes’ customary style, the single made fast progress up the pop chart, taking only five weeks to reach No. 9. But there it peaked — and there was worse news on the R&B countdown, where it topped out at No. 16, hampered, undoubtedly, by its less overtly soulful groove. In Brian and Eddie Holland’s 2019 autobiography Come And Get These Memories, Eddie wrote of his increasing awareness of an unconscious decline in HDH’s achievements, and those at Motown as a whole. Their other commitments, and specifically his A&R duties at the company, weren’t helping.

    “It was a nice song, and we liked it a lot,” he said. “I knew we were still writing great songs…but the product we were doing on the Supremes — and you have to understand, the Supremes were key — was fading. We were always looking to go to No. 1, and we loved the records, but the public didn’t.” The relatively restrained reaction to the group’s new work was in marked contrast to affection for their achievements to date: a Greatest Hits set of their best-loved songs spent the whole of November 1967 at No. 1 in America.



    https://www.udiscovermusic.com/stori...-of-love-song/



    Last edited by milven; 11-11-2019 at 10:50 PM.

  2. #2
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    How anyone thought this song was going all the way boggles my mind. I love the song. It would've made an excellent album track or even b side that might have gotten some airplay. But the ride the group and HDH had been on since "Hurry Love" seemed to increase in speed and then the brakes were applied with "In and Out". This song didn't stand a chance IMO.

    I didn't realize that Flo's photo would be on the cover of the single for this. Interesting.

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    I'm not convinced that Florence is actually on this recording.

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    This has got to be in my top [[5) list of least favorite songs by the girls. The first time I heard it I thought it had a country and western sound to it.

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    This one's kind of under the radar , had almost forgotten about it !


    It's pleasant , iow good, just seems to lack a certain dynamic but maybe that's what they were going for : something softer, lulling . Definitely LA sounding rather than Motown , missing a good funky bass line and the drumming , to me sounds almost amateurish , repetitive shuffling and too constant throughout with predicable drum rolls in all the exact places, almost distracting once you notice it.
    Diana sounds good , she delivers the carefree mood of the song , as do The "Supremes" with their parts.
    Brian and Eddie's conclusion that it's a "nice song" is about right , imo.


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    Quote Originally Posted by captainjames View Post
    This has got to be in my top [[5) list of least favorite songs by the girls. The first time I heard it I thought it had a country and western sound to it.
    I can hear a twinge of C&W, but I hear more of the California influence. I can't wait to hear the unreleased Funk Bros version. I wonder if my ears will hear a bigger hit or will I hold the opinion that the right version got the release.

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    apparently the background vocals for In and Out and Going All The Way [[To True True Love) were done on the same day in June 67. The later is on the Never Before Released Master. For whatever reason though the Andantes were added to In and Out but not Going. perhaps they already felt it was the stronger song and wanted to finish it up to get ready for release

    I believe M and F are on In and Out but are pretty much buried in the mix under the Andantes. I don't believe M and F's vocals were wiped

  8. #8
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    i agree that In and Out [[and frankly even Going All The Way) is not the strongest output by the Supremes. They're very "California/LA/Sunshine Pop" in sound similar to songs like being done by Beach Boys, The Association, Mamas and Papas, 5th Dimension. John Philips [[of the M&P) and Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys really exemplify this sound with John being more pop and Brian being more experimental

    At the time, these groups were very influential. It's actually a bit of a re-emergence of an American sound in pop music aside from Motown. something that genuinely rivaled some of the British Invasion.

    So it's only natural that in 67, HDH would incorporate some of this sound into material for Sups and even the Tops. Try and see what their interpretation of Sunshine could be. So we get the girls doing In and Out, Going, Up Up and Away.

    you also had the emergence of the San Francisco and Psychedelic sounds - hence Reflections, Forever Came Today, Am i asking too much, I can't make it alone, etc.

    The Reflections album could be considered an homage by motown and HDH to the various California sounds and influences. I might be giving them more credit with the idea that they strategically selected the tracks they did for this purpose as to more by chance. And one can argue about how successful they were in their interpretations.

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    Always like this song but I think it was released to keep things going as both Ballard and HDH were now gone from Motown.
    Would love to hear the original as well

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    IN AND OUT OF LOVE remains the only Supremes song I like the faster live version of better than the studio performance. it is the highlight of the Talk of The Town LP for me. Everything else is breakneck pace...except Reflections, which I also like live.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gman View Post
    IN AND OUT OF LOVE remains the only Supremes song I like the faster live version of better than the studio performance. it is the highlight of the Talk of The Town LP for me. Everything else is breakneck pace...except Reflections, which I also like live.
    Me to. She always did a great job with this one.This is the one Supremes song where imo Diana sounds better live then on the recorded version.

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    Totally agree gman. It has really grown on me over the years. Really like their live Sweden performance.

  13. #13
    'In and out of Love' was the first Supremes single that I didn't like [[and still don't) since before 'Lovelight'. Coming after 'Reflections' it was just so dull and very MOR!

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    Quote Originally Posted by copley View Post
    'In and out of Love' was the first Supremes single that I didn't like [[and still don't) since before 'Lovelight'. Coming after 'Reflections' it was just so dull and very MOR!
    If find that song like a long and slow train ride. I just can’t listen to it. To each his own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by copley View Post
    'In and out of Love' was the first Supremes single that I didn't like [[and still don't) since before 'Lovelight'. Coming after 'Reflections' it was just so dull and very MOR!
    agreed - after so many amazing records in 66 and 67, this was just lacking. You Can't Hurry Love, You keep me hanging on, Love is here and Reflections were innovative and really pushed the envelop. this song was just not that. But there really wasn't anything else ready I'm guessing. HDH was in the slow-down phase and so Gordy needed product.

    In addition, with the Flo situation, the girls hadn't been in the studio as much [[it seems). My info is most certainly not complete but after the sessions in June for Going all the way and In and Out, there aren't any more until Sept when they do more Disney stuff and then Oct when they start recording with Cindy [[Heaven must have sent you, Stay in my lonely arms, Then)

    would be so interesting to learn if there are a bunch of unfinished tracks and songs that were started for the girls by HDH during this time. maybe only leads were put together.

    Some people have said that Forever wasn't even completed by HDH but that other producers came in and finished it up. just not receiving label credit

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by gman View Post
    IN AND OUT OF LOVE remains the only Supremes song I like the faster live version of better than the studio performance. it is the highlight of the Talk of The Town LP for me. Everything else is breakneck pace...except Reflections, which I also like live.
    i agree - the Talk of the Town version is about the best one. still not incredible but def better

    I would add to this list of "Live better than studio"

    Everybody's Got The Right
    Your Wonderful Sweet Sweet Love

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    Quote Originally Posted by detmotownguy View Post
    If find that song like a long and slow train ride. I just can’t listen to it. To each his own.
    Ah … but if the scenery is good a long and slow train ride is a great way to spend a few hours

    "In & Out Of Love" peaked at #13 in The UK, slightly higher than "Love Is Here & Now You're Gone" but below "You Can't Hurry Love", "You Keep Me Hanging On", "The Happening" and "Reflections" all of which went Top 10 [[Britain wasn't quite as much into The Motown Sound back then as The USA).

    I'd agree that "In & Out Of Love" has a very MOR/Big-Band-Swing feel but I've always liked it a lot. It's very light and airy and has a feel-good sound. The one from that period that I've always been a bit iffy over was "The Happening", which also had a very MOR/Big-Band-Swing feel as far as I was concerned. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

    Roger

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    I agree about "The Happening". While I would've apparently been wrong about it, I would've vetoed releasing "The Happening" as a single. I just don't hear the appeal outside of the great intro. But then I'm also not a fan of some of the Supremes straight pop songs, and "The Happening" is as pop as most of their singles get.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SatansBlues View Post
    I'm not convinced that Florence is actually on this recording.
    Well according to this article, they overdubbed her and Mary with the andantes. I always thought this song sounded like the andantes anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roger View Post
    Ah … but if the scenery is good a long and slow train ride is a great way to spend a few hours

    "In & Out Of Love" peaked at #13 in The UK, slightly higher than "Love Is Here & Now You're Gone" but below "You Can't Hurry Love", "You Keep Me Hanging On", "The Happening" and "Reflections" all of which went Top 10 [[Britain wasn't quite as much into The Motown Sound back then as The USA).

    I'd agree that "In & Out Of Love" has a very MOR/Big-Band-Swing feel but I've always liked it a lot. It's very light and airy and has a feel-good sound. The one from that period that I've always been a bit iffy over was "The Happening", which also had a very MOR/Big-Band-Swing feel as far as I was concerned. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

    Roger
    Understand what you are saying though....but.............!

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    My ears may be tricking me but I faintly hear Mary and Flo in there. Flo in particular.

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    It's been awhile since I listened to a live version of the song, but isn't this one that Diana always seemed to flub a line on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    It's been awhile since I listened to a live version of the song, but isn't this one that Diana always seemed to flub a line on?
    Yes, it is. I think she switches some lines around. She did it on Ed Sullivan and on the Talk of the Town lp, but she still pulled it off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Yes, it is. I think she switches some lines around. She did it on Ed Sullivan and on the Talk of the Town lp, but she still pulled it off.
    Yeah, I think she switches lines around. Of course she pulled it off. She Diana Ross.

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