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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Yet Luther worked with Aretha Franklin, Dionne Warwick, Mariah Carey, Janet Jackson, Whitney Houston, Richard Marx, etc,etc. Diana Ross is just stupid and has zero talent as a producer. She should have taken Tyler Perry up on his movie offer, no one else wants her!
    You are very angry again i see.
    Luther did work with Diana on "it's hard for me to say" and also did some arranging and backing vocals on Silk Electric. I think he just produced the one song on Whitney too.He also just worked on one song with Mariah and Janet Jackson . Did he do more work with Richard Marx than he did with Diana? And who are the etc,etc?Not sure i have heard of them. What genre are they and on what songs did Luther work with them?
    I hope that anger and bitterness in your soul that threatens to eat you up subsides soon.
    I hope you find the inner peace and happiness that has thus far eluded you . Hope springs eternal.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    it certainly would have been preferred to the Eaten Alive mess. much of that album i find to be un-listenable.
    As you yourself have pointed out sup, it's kind of interesting to read fans different takes on certain albums. For me Silk Electric is the antithesis of everything she should not have done whereas Eaten Alive is a fairly decent attempt at creating a good album. Not great by any means, but most certainly respectable.

  3. #103
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    If 'Swept Away' and 'Eaten Alive' had been Diana's first two albums for RCA she would have had a much better run of success after leaving Motown. Though not perfect, they were at least albums not just a bunch of songs thrown together like a cheap K-Tel compilation.

    Better still if the Eaten Alive song was cut altogether and another Gibb song [[eg Islands in The Stream - originally written with Diana in mind I think) had replaced it. The album could have been renamed 'Experience'

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levi Stubbs Tears View Post
    If 'Swept Away' and 'Eaten Alive' had been Diana's first two albums for RCA she would have had a much better run of success after leaving Motown. Though not perfect, they were at least albums not just a bunch of songs thrown together like a cheap K-Tel compilation.

    Better still if the Eaten Alive song was cut altogether and another Gibb song [[eg Islands in The Stream - originally written with Diana in mind I think) had replaced it. The album could have been renamed 'Experience'
    She made so many terrible career choices in the 80's. Imagine turning down Islands in the stream and then accepting a way inferior song like Eaten alive just 3 years or so later.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    As you yourself have pointed out sup, it's kind of interesting to read fans different takes on certain albums. For me Silk Electric is the antithesis of everything she should not have done whereas Eaten Alive is a fairly decent attempt at creating a good album. Not great by any means, but most certainly respectable.
    Agree with you on both points Ollie. Eaten alive is a decent album aside from the ghastly title track

  6. #106
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    I adore Miss Ross, but yes some very foolish choices, Islands In The Stream being the second biggest, the biggest being turning down the script for The Bodyguard in the 70's which was slated for her and Ryan O Neil back in the day and then the script just gathered dust for a few decades till Whitney came along.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia View Post
    I adore Miss Ross, but yes some very foolish choices, Islands In The Stream being the second biggest, the biggest being turning down the script for The Bodyguard in the 70's which was slated for her and Ryan O Neil back in the day and then the script just gathered dust for a few decades till Whitney came along.
    Yes, Diana certainly had some turn-downs that we fans may regret. Gotta let bygones be bygones, though, and celebrate what is rather than what isn't or never was!

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    As you yourself have pointed out sup, it's kind of interesting to read fans different takes on certain albums. For me Silk Electric is the antithesis of everything she should not have done whereas Eaten Alive is a fairly decent attempt at creating a good album. Not great by any means, but most certainly respectable.
    hehe - i know. the differences are so intriguing among the fans

    Now let me explain my problems with Eaten:

    1. the production of Diana's vocals - so muffled and buried
    2. the grating, clashing sound of Diana's nasal tones and the Gibbs nasal background vocals

    as for the songs, i do actually like the material. had those two issues been resolved it would have been an excellent album. but as is, i find it nearly unlistenable

    Now i do acknowledge that Silk Electric is not a homerun. Some people have said that, other than Muscles, it's all rejected, leftover tracks from WDFFIL. That she simply dug those out and slapped them onto an album in order to have more product. I don't know if that's true or not as i don't have the production timelines and dates. IMO Diana was at the top of her game in the early 80s. huge hit records with motown, she successfully moved to RCA and got a fuckload of money. For years she'd simply done what she was told - she sang what was placed in front of her. Now she was in charge. I see SE as her saying "hey - i've never sung reggae or hard rock. let's try it! why not" let's make the album with each track being a totally different genre and test/play/experiment.

    I do find that the vocal production is not great - muffled here too and too much echo at times. and Diana does seem to just coast through the material. but i appreciate her experimentation. she'd spent 20+ years doing what others told her to do so i can understand her saying "let me just play around and try things"

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    hehe - i know. the differences are so intriguing among the fans

    Now let me explain my problems with Eaten:

    1. the production of Diana's vocals - so muffled and buried
    2. the grating, clashing sound of Diana's nasal tones and the Gibbs nasal background vocals

    as for the songs, i do actually like the material. had those two issues been resolved it would have been an excellent album. but as is, i find it nearly unlistenable

    Now i do acknowledge that Silk Electric is not a homerun. Some people have said that, other than Muscles, it's all rejected, leftover tracks from WDFFIL. That she simply dug those out and slapped them onto an album in order to have more product. I don't know if that's true or not as i don't have the production timelines and dates. IMO Diana was at the top of her game in the early 80s. huge hit records with motown, she successfully moved to RCA and got a fuckload of money. For years she'd simply done what she was told - she sang what was placed in front of her. Now she was in charge. I see SE as her saying "hey - i've never sung reggae or hard rock. let's try it! why not" let's make the album with each track being a totally different genre and test/play/experiment.

    I do find that the vocal production is not great - muffled here too and too much echo at times. and Diana does seem to just coast through the material. but i appreciate her experimentation. she'd spent 20+ years doing what others told her to do so i can understand her saying "let me just play around and try things"
    I actually liked SILK ELECTRIC when I first bought it. It wasn't one of my faves, but songs like FOOL FOR YOUR LOVE, ANYWHERE YOU RUN TO, and I AM ME were pleasing to me. Hell, I even thought she was clever to get a writing and publishing credit with TURN ME OVER. It was only as the years went on that I became less enamored of it.

    Re EATEN ALIVE, I was turned off by the title track from the moment I bought the single. It sounded like a third-rate SWEPT AWAY, just a bunch of noise. I even disliked the single's picture sleeve. I give her points for the video, though.

    When I bought the album, I didn't think it was bad. I thought OH TEACHER, EXPERIENCE, and especially CHAIN REACTION were great. But the rest of it never grabbed me. I barely remember what most of the songs on Side 2 sound like. To this day, I only play it if I'm having a Diana-fest.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    hehe - i know. the differences are so intriguing among the fans

    Now let me explain my problems with Eaten:

    1. the production of Diana's vocals - so muffled and buried
    2. the grating, clashing sound of Diana's nasal tones and the Gibbs nasal background vocals

    as for the songs, i do actually like the material. had those two issues been resolved it would have been an excellent album. but as is, i find it nearly unlistenable

    Now i do acknowledge that Silk Electric is not a homerun. Some people have said that, other than Muscles, it's all rejected, leftover tracks from WDFFIL. That she simply dug those out and slapped them onto an album in order to have more product. I don't know if that's true or not as i don't have the production timelines and dates. IMO Diana was at the top of her game in the early 80s. huge hit records with motown, she successfully moved to RCA and got a fuckload of money. For years she'd simply done what she was told - she sang what was placed in front of her. Now she was in charge. I see SE as her saying "hey - i've never sung reggae or hard rock. let's try it! why not" let's make the album with each track being a totally different genre and test/play/experiment.

    I do find that the vocal production is not great - muffled here too and too much echo at times. and Diana does seem to just coast through the material. but i appreciate her experimentation. she'd spent 20+ years doing what others told her to do so i can understand her saying "let me just play around and try things"
    If Silk Electric is the product of Diana's experimental yearnings , i can only lament the fact that she did not spend a further seven years being told what to do.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Re EATEN ALIVE, I was turned off by the title track from the moment I bought the single. It sounded like a third-rate SWEPT AWAY, just a bunch of noise. I even disliked the single's picture sleeve. I give her points for the video, though.
    The video with Ross as a savage jungle cannibal/tigress? I was just a teenager but I knew it was very, very wrong for her to be depicted in that manner. I was embarrassed for her.

    I didn't buy the EA album but I did get the 12" single way back when. To my enduring shame, it is on my current iPod gym playlist. It is completely undanceable but hearing her and MJ trade squeals and nonsensical exhortations on the extended version is great for cardio.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    She made so many terrible career choices in the 80's. Imagine turning down Islands in the stream and then accepting a way inferior song like Eaten alive just 3 years or so later.
    i believe she also turned down It's Raining Men hehe

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    Yes, Diana certainly had some turn-downs that we fans may regret. Gotta let bygones be bygones, though, and celebrate what is rather than what isn't or never was!
    oh but speculating what MIGHT HAVE BEEN is so much fun!!!

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    If Silk Electric is the product of Diana's experimental yearnings , i can only lament the fact that she did not spend a further seven years being told what to do.
    lololol i'm not saying that the output of her experimental yearnings was high quality. but i do at least give her some token acknowledgement for wanting to and being willing to experiment

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i believe she also turned down It's Raining Men hehe
    That was meant to be a duet with Streisand. There were rumours that Donna Summer was also invited to contribute, but Diana told me that was not the case.

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    Was it true that 'Enough is Enough' was originally supposed to be a Barb/Diana duet or was it always supposed to be Donna Summer? I should know this, but haven't had enough coffee yet lol

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    i never heard Raining was supposed to be a duet, as in Enough is Enough. I thought the writer was trying to get Diana, Cher, Bette and others to sing it and none would take it. The Weather Girls finally did and shared the leads

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i never heard Raining was supposed to be a duet, as in Enough is Enough. I thought the writer was trying to get Diana, Cher, Bette and others to sing it and none would take it. The Weather Girls finally did and shared the leads
    That’s the story that I had always heard.

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    ^ Considering both songs were written by Paul Jabara, I could see Paul wanting to make IRM a duet with two superstar divas lol

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levi Stubbs Tears View Post
    Was it true that 'Enough is Enough' was originally supposed to be a Barb/Diana duet or was it always supposed to be Donna Summer? I should know this, but haven't had enough coffee yet lol
    I am not 100% sure, but i am fairly sure it was always meant to be a Babs/Donna duet.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy View Post
    The video with Ross as a savage jungle cannibal/tigress? I was just a teenager but I knew it was very, very wrong for her to be depicted in that manner. I was embarrassed for her.
    .

    Why were you embarrassed for her Guy??. I think the video great fun and is one of her best.. Just a shame it was wasted on promoting such a daft song.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    .

    Why were you embarrassed for her Guy??. I think the video great fun and is one of her best.. Just a shame it was wasted on promoting such a daft song.
    The video was fun. The song sucked, but i do think that a good remix could have made all the difference. There is a decent song struggling to get out. Up to now it has proven to be an uphill struggle.

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    ^i wouldn't say embarrassed but i do find many of her videos weird lol

    how many "official" 80s videos did she do? that Visions of DR only had a couple on it.

    here's what i've found:

    My Old Piano
    Why Do Fools
    Muscles
    Pieces of ice
    Swept Away
    Missing You
    All of you
    eaten alive

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    The video was fun. The song sucked, but i do think that a good remix could have made all the difference. There is a decent song struggling to get out. Up to now it has proven to be an uphill struggle.
    I have a few theories on how to improve:

    1. remix so diana's voice is prominent throughout entire track
    2. cut the Bee Gee vocals and replace with female BG singers
    3. perhaps recut as a duet with Diana and Michael

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    ^i wouldn't say embarrassed but i do find many of her videos weird lol

    how many "official" 80s videos did she do? that Visions of DR only had a couple on it.

    here's what i've found:

    My Old Piano
    Why Do Fools
    Muscles
    Pieces of ice
    Swept Away
    Missing You
    All of you
    eaten alive
    There was a video for “Experience”, and also a video for “Forever Young” which was a live performance used for the Jerry Lewis telethon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    ^i wouldn't say embarrassed but i do find many of her videos weird lol

    how many "official" 80s videos did she do? that Visions of DR only had a couple on it.

    here's what i've found:

    My Old Piano
    Why Do Fools
    Muscles
    Pieces of ice
    Swept Away
    Missing You
    All of you
    eaten alive
    There were also videos for WORK THAT BODY, CHAIN REACTION, DIRTY LOOKS, and MR. LEE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    There were also videos for WORK THAT BODY, CHAIN REACTION, DIRTY LOOKS, and MR. LEE.
    Who could forget the video for Chain Reaction - stunning and great fun switching from the past to the present?

    It was the airing of the video on Top Of The Pops in the UK which sent the record from just being a hit into mega-status.

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    There were also the back-to-Motown 80s videos of WORKIN' OVERTIME, THIS HOUSE, and PARADISE.

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    There were also the back-to-Motown 80s videos of WORKIN' OVERTIME, THIS HOUSE, and PARADISE.
    The only 80’s video missing to my knowledge is Mirror, Mirror...

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyB View Post
    The only 80’s video missing to my knowledge is Mirror, Mirror...
    There was a video of Mirror, Mirror. I remember the tv program America's Top 40 with Casey Kasum highlighted it when it was in the top 10. If I remember it correctly, he mentioned the fact that Marvin Gaye and Smokey Robinson also had hits in the top 10 at the same time!

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    ^i wouldn't say embarrassed but i do find many of her videos weird lol

    how many "official" 80s videos did she do? that Visions of DR only had a couple on it.

    here's what i've found:

    My Old Piano
    Why Do Fools
    Muscles
    Pieces of ice
    Swept Away
    Missing You
    All of you
    eaten alive
    You have forgotten chain reaction, experience and erm.. workin' overtime.

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    It's a real shame the main singles from 'The Boss' and 'diana' didn't have videos - they would have boosted the songs even higher at least in markets outside the US.

    I remember when Upside Down hit #1 in Australia, 'Countdown' [[our 'Top of the Pops') had to make their own video. It was a bit like some of the home-made things you see on YT clips these days - floating album covers and publicity shots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Levi Stubbs Tears View Post
    It's a real shame the main singles from 'The Boss' and 'diana' didn't have videos - they would have boosted the songs even higher at least in markets outside the US.

    I remember when Upside Down hit #1 in Australia, 'Countdown' [[our 'Top of the Pops') had to make their own video. It was a bit like some of the home-made things you see on YT clips these days - floating album covers and publicity shots.
    It's a massive shame there was no video for "I'm Coming Out". It's such an iconic song that a fun promo might have helped push it to that top spot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    It's a massive shame there was no video for "I'm Coming Out". It's such an iconic song that a fun promo might have helped push it to that top spot.
    It is a pity she had not gone down the video route a few years earlier the way Queen and Abba did. It could have resulted in some much bigger hits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    It is a pity she had not gone down the video route a few years earlier the way Queen and Abba did. It could have resulted in some much bigger hits.
    I'm not sure that videos would have helped those songs, there would not have been an outlet to have them shown. In the early days of MTV they rarely played videos by black artists, they rarely even played Michael Jackson's videos. In the early days of music videos you would have to catch black artists videos on BET [[Black Entertainment Television). The president of CBS records threatened to pull all CBS music videos from MTV because they were refusing to play Michael Jackson's Billy Jean video even though it was the #1 song on the charts in 1983!
    Last edited by SatansBlues; 11-16-2019 at 11:47 AM.

  36. #136
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    In the UK there was Top Of The Pops. A prime time music countdown of the charts where colour was never an issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SatansBlues View Post
    I'm not sure that videos would have helped those songs, there would not have been an outlet to have them shown. In the early days of MTV they rarely played videos by black artists, they rarely even played Michael Jackson's videos. In the early days of music videos you would have to catch black artists videos on BET [[Black Entertainment Television). The president of CBS records threatened to pull all CBS music videos from MTV because they were refusing to play Michael Jackson's Billy Jean video even though it was the #1 song on the charts in 1983!
    We didn't have that problem here in the UK.
    I recall reading how amazed Otis Redding was that he could be a guest on music shows and talk shows here in the UK, yet he felt there were barriers in the States that prevented him from feeling as relaxed as he did when in the UK. Colour should never have been an issue. It should have been all about talent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    In the UK there was Top Of The Pops. A prime time music countdown of the charts where colour was never an issue.
    Correct Ollie. Diana's videos would have gone down a storm on TOTP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    We didn't have that problem here in the UK.
    I recall reading how amazed Otis Redding was that he could be a guest on music shows and talk shows here in the UK, yet he felt there were barriers in the States that prevented him from feeling as relaxed as he did when in the UK. Colour should never have been an issue. It should have been all about talent.
    Agreed, but color issues are in our soil here in the US and has been that way since the beginning. We currently have white nationalists in the top echelons of our government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SatansBlues View Post
    Agreed, but color issues are in our soil here in the US and has been that way since the beginning. We currently have white nationalists in the top echelons of our government.
    What a terrible state of affairs

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    I wished I could tell you what one of his lawyers from back in the 60s said one day in NYC while I was waiting for meeting, but I can't LOL!

    Anyway, It has been said that the Supremes would only receive something between $6-7,000 each for a million selling single back in the 60s. That's peanuts. They also had a royalty rate of 3 cents per single which was split between the 3 of them .
    And i bet they got screwed even more after they became the DRATS. Didn't BG claim they would get pd "double" bc he was booking two acts lol!

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    Quote Originally Posted by detmotownguy View Post
    And i bet they got screwed even more after they became the DRATS. Didn't BG claim they would get pd "double" bc he was booking two acts lol!
    If you are a thinking person and not just a fanatic that believes any and everything these people told the public, you would know that didn't even make sense! He concocted that story as a reason just as he made up that story about why he wanted Diana Ross to be the lead singer of the Supremes. People didn't think much about it,but are now questioning all these things decades later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    If you are a thinking person and not just a fanatic that believes any and everything these people told the public, you would know that didn't even make sense! He concocted that story as a reason just as he made up that story about why he wanted Diana Ross to be the lead singer of the Supremes. People didn't think much about it,but are now questioning all these things decades later.
    He was the boss. And if that’s what he wanted. He had every right. Miracles also became Smokey Robinson and the Miracles. And people can question all they want why he made Diana Ross the lead singer. All these decades later. History proves he made the right choice. Her voice leads 12 #1 records. How can any logical person say that was a mistake? Lol.

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    Originally Posted by marv2
    I wished I could tell you what one of his lawyers from back in the 60s said one day in NYC while I was waiting for meeting, but I can't LOL!



    LMAO. The most Mr Gordys lawyer EVER said to you was "why would I tell you anything about my client Mr Gordy. Now move outta my way." LOLOLOLOL Hehehehehehehehehehe

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    Quote Originally Posted by vgalindo View Post
    He was the boss. And if that’s what he wanted. He had every right. Miracles also became Smokey Robinson and the Miracles. And people can question all they want why he made Diana Ross the lead singer. All these decades later. History proves he made the right choice. Her voice leads 12 #1 records. How can any logical person say that was a mistake? Lol.
    The clue is in your use of the word 'logical'! #laughingstock thought the same thing until Diana's security guards took is cheap-assed camera. HE HE HE!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    ^i wouldn't say embarrassed but i do find many of her videos weird lol

    how many "official" 80s videos did she do? that Visions of DR only had a couple on it.

    here's what i've found:

    My Old Piano
    Why Do Fools
    Muscles
    Pieces of ice
    Swept Away
    Missing You
    All of you
    eaten alive
    Mirror Mirror
    Work That Body
    Chain Reaction [[I remembered that one because that was actually the first video, besides Missing You, that first hipped me to Diana as a child)
    Dirty Looks
    Mr. Lee
    Experience
    Workin' Overtime
    Paradise
    This House

    So that's a total of 17 videos in the '80s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vgalindo View Post
    He was the boss. And if that’s what he wanted. He had every right. Miracles also became Smokey Robinson and the Miracles. And people can question all they want why he made Diana Ross the lead singer. All these decades later. History proves he made the right choice. Her voice leads 12 #1 records. How can any logical person say that was a mistake? Lol.
    Exactly. I don't know why folks keep going back and forth with this.

    If there was one thing Berry Gordy was good at, it was strategy. He knew that having someone else besides the very soulful and raw Flo take over the lead position would work as long as he could find the material. Flo was vocally like Etta James [[who herself wasn't a crossover act despite her influence on white artists later on) while Mary Wilson's vocals were considered too jazzy for pop. Diana had the perfect voice for what was happening on the air but also had the voice that would bring in a different sound people weren't used to.

    Obviously the general public agreed with BG's sentiments. 12 number one hits and then 6 solo number ones when she left? Berry decided Diana should be the leader, not Diana herself [[not that Diana minded lmao).

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    Hi midnightman; thank you for your most recent post. It was very balanced, unlike some of the posters on this forum who swear that neither Flo nor Mary can sing. For what Berry wanted, Diana was the perfect candidate for the job. She had the most "pop" voice. What people get mad about, especially in Detroit is: ok, we know that Diana is the lead singer. But on some album cuts, give Flo and Mary some leads. It would not have hurt the group in the long run.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stingbeelee View Post
    Hi midnightman; thank you for your most recent post. It was very balanced, unlike some of the posters on this forum who swear that neither Flo nor Mary can sing. For what Berry wanted, Diana was the perfect candidate for the job. She had the most "pop" voice. What people get mad about, especially in Detroit is: ok, we know that Diana is the lead singer. But on some album cuts, give Flo and Mary some leads. It would not have hurt the group in the long run.
    Exactly. Folks weren't hating on Diana singing the hits, but Mary & Florence definitely deserved more vocal leads. Berry treated the group as a vehicle for Diana Ross rather than a self contained vocal group and as we saw, all three had the talents to take things up to eleven. Imagine if all three were given equal vocal times during the hit years! Are you kidding?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i never heard Raining was supposed to be a duet, as in Enough is Enough. I thought the writer was trying to get Diana, Cher, Bette and others to sing it and none would take it. The Weather Girls finally did and shared the leads
    Interesting that Classic Pop Magazine just put out an article about 'hits that got away' - here's what they say about It's Raining Men:

    First offered to Donna Summer, the singer who was by now a Born Again Christian, turned it down claiming its lyrics were “blasphemous”. She then sent songwriter Paul Jabara a Bible the following day to show him the error of his ways. Diana Ross, and Barbra Streisand all rejected the song, too, only for The Weather Girls to finally pick up the track for inclusion on their 1983 album,Success.


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