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    Diana Ross' Payout from Motown

    I find it hard to believe that when Diana Ross left Motown, she was given just given a token $100,000.
    That amounts to a weekend gig in Las Vegas, not including meals for the band. Did she get any Motown Stock Options?

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    this amount was based on her final payout from her accounts. it wasn't simply a "token $110K"

    whatever costs diana incurred for studio time, promotion, tours, management fees, etc had to be deducted from her earnings. so that wildly extravagant show she did for The Boss tour had to be paid for: the huge orchestra, dancers, stage hands, choreographer, director, tv crews, etc.

    Also her contracts list out what her royalty rates would be along with her %'s for touring and appearances.

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    Not sure of the exact amount she received. But Diana herself said in a 1992 LEAR'S article that once she took over responsibility for her career, she actually had to go to a bank and borrow in order to pay her taxes. She continued by saying she looked at the situation as "You may not have much money. But you have your name and that's a starting point."

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    I hate to say it but DR was right to leave Motown from a financial standpoint.

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    it's always been an super interesting discussion - should she have left or not?

    financially - absolutely
    artistically - perhaps not the best move

    In the various biographies written, it seems like money and career control were the primary decisions. That and i think she just wanted to get AWAY from Berry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    it's always been an super interesting discussion - should she have left or not?

    financially - absolutely
    artistically - perhaps not the best move

    In the various biographies written, it seems like money and career control were the primary decisions. That and i think she just wanted to get AWAY from Berry.
    Well with the exception of Stevie Wonder, they all left, most just did it a decade earlier.

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    Leaving and taking control was critically important to financial and mental well being. You couldn't really get a much bigger career.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    it's always been an super interesting discussion - should she have left or not?

    financially - absolutely
    artistically - perhaps not the best move

    In the various biographies written, it seems like money and career control were the primary decisions. That and i think she just wanted to get AWAY from Berry.
    Berry Gordy and Motown controlled her finances. When she decided to leave, they took back her home, the yellow rolls royce, jewelry, fur coats and other items. She was told that it all belonged to the company and was only loaned to her!

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    The financial decision was the correct one and it enabled Diana to set herself up for the rest of her life.

    The artistic direction wasn't so correct - she really needed a strong production team in charge of her first release for RCA. She was probably in the best position of her solo career after her best-selling album of all time and two further solo hits. She should have built on this, but it went downhill quickly due to poor artistic choices over the next few years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Levi Stubbs Tears View Post
    The financial decision was the correct one and it enabled Diana to set herself up for the rest of her life.

    The artistic direction wasn't so correct - she really needed a strong production team in charge of her first release for RCA. She was probably in the best position of her solo career after her best-selling album of all time and two further solo hits. She should have built on this, but it went downhill quickly due to poor artistic choices over the next few years.
    yeah i agree. I enjoy the first two albums but agree that they pale with what SHOULD have happened. when berry launched her solo career in 70, so much care was put into the first lp. it's stunning. After The Boss and diana, then It's My Turn and Endless Love, she should have released a masterpiece. but alas...

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    yeah i agree. I enjoy the first two albums but agree that they pale with what SHOULD have happened. when berry launched her solo career in 70, so much care was put into the first lp. it's stunning. After The Boss and diana, then It's My Turn and Endless Love, she should have released a masterpiece. but alas...
    I think her rca albums gradually improved in quality, but none of them even approached classic status. Sadly that concerned us far more than it ever concerned her, and that in itself was quite sad.

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    Diana left Motown cause BG controlled many of the artists' bank accounts. She did try to renegotiate with Motown but BG kept claiming it was impossible so she left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I think her rca albums gradually improved in quality, but none of them even approached classic status. Sadly that concerned us far more than it ever concerned her, and that in itself was quite sad.
    Welll ... during those years I think Diana was more concerned with her family than her albums, and to that I say 'Brava, diva'!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TNSUN View Post
    I find it hard to believe that when Diana Ross left Motown, she was given just given a token $100,000.
    That amounts to a weekend gig in Las Vegas, not including meals for the band. Did she get any Motown Stock Options?
    That was the amount Mary got in 1971 when she demanded to be in full charge of her finances. Diana got a little more than double that when she demanded the same ten years later. It's one of the main reasons she left Motown

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Berry Gordy and Motown controlled her finances. When she decided to leave, they took back her home, the yellow rolls royce, jewelry, fur coats and other items. She was told that it all belonged to the company and was only loaned to her!
    I hope she had her accountant perform an audit since I was under the impression that those sort of assets were debited from the artists account? At some point, I would hope that the company would make things right as they did with Martha. Martha used to meet with her lawyer/advisor in cafe at work and sit way in the back. Aside from HDH and Flo, was Martha one of the first artists to demand an accounting of earnings? Just seems odd that Motown would take it upon themselves to treat the artists that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    Welll ... during those years I think Diana was more concerned with her family than her albums, and to that I say 'Brava, diva'!
    She was always way more concerned about her family as opposed to her career. That is only right of course. She never really wanted to leave Motown but when Gene Simmons showed her how much money he was earning and what the potential was for her own earnings she decided she had no choice in the matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    Welll ... during those years I think Diana was more concerned with her family than her albums, and to that I say 'Brava, diva'!
    I don't understand why loving and taking time out to be with your family is synonymous with releasing subpar music. Other recording artists with young children seem to have avoided this fate.
    The reality is Diana is no producer and that point in time had no real understanding of what her fans wanted from her.

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    It was probably the best move of her career and her longevity. It has been a long time but some of the things that still register was Mr. Gordy telling Diana he could not match the offers that she was getting. Anything that she recorded was charged to her account whether it was released or not. The talk at the time was that Diana would never leave Motown and that it was just a bluff. Diana left, Mr. Gordy sold Motown, Diana came back after being wiser about here her money. I think Diana would have survived some way but to stay with Motown , I think she would have eventually faded from the music business just like she did with the movie business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan View Post
    That was the amount Mary got in 1971 when she demanded to be in full charge of her finances. Diana got a little more than double that when she demanded the same ten years later. It's one of the main reasons she left Motown
    I wonder how much Smokey Robinson got paid when he left Motown in the 80s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I don't understand why loving and taking time out to be with your family is synonymous with releasing subpar music. Other recording artists with young children seem to have avoided this fate.
    The reality is Diana is no producer and that point in time had no real understanding of what her fans wanted from her.
    My guess is that Diana enlisted herself as producer to gain a greater share of royalties. I also guess that perhaps other recording artists raising children, caring for ageing parents, being closely involved with siblings, etc are able to do so and release 'better' albums that you think Diana did, but that opens an entire can of false-comparison worms! I could, but won't, list many [[many!) recording and movie stars of Diana's vintage who may have released better-regarded music or movies and have a passel of non-productive, hot-mess offspring and bitter exes, and leave it at that. Even super-stars have a limited amount of time and focus. For me, Diana has done just fine with both her career output and legendary family-matriarch status and I think any younger artist could not do better than to model their life/career balance on that of Diana Ross.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I don't understand why loving and taking time out to be with your family is synonymous with releasing subpar music. Other recording artists with young children seem to have avoided this fate.
    The reality is Diana is no producer and that point in time had no real understanding of what her fans wanted from her.
    I think what PeaceNHarmony meant was that she made music a very poor 2nd in her list of priorities at this time Ollie.
    I totally agree she was no producer but she did enjoy the freedom of doing what she wanted, even if her loyal fans were less than impressed with the results.
    If i am to be brutally honest she didn't really care that much whether her fans approved of her musical output . Her main priority was to provide financial stability for her girls. She succeeded in making herself large amounts of money whilst trying to be a hands on mother.
    Sadly what her long suffering fans wanted was not a priority for her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SatansBlues View Post
    I wonder how much Smokey Robinson got paid when he left Motown in the 80s.
    Smokey left in 1991, I believe, to sign with SBK. Motown was no longer the same entity that he and Diana had originally recorded for. Plus I don't think Motown [[and/or Berry) was in control of Smokey's finances to the same extent that they were with Diana. Also, Smokey should have had substantial income from both his record and songwriting royalties.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    My guess is that Diana enlisted herself as producer to gain a greater share of royalties. I also guess that perhaps other recording artists raising children, caring for ageing parents, being closely involved with siblings, etc are able to do so and release 'better' albums that you think Diana did, but that opens an entire can of false-comparison worms! I could, but won't, list many [[many!) recording and movie stars of Diana's vintage who may have released better-regarded music or movies and have a passel of non-productive, hot-mess offspring and bitter exes, and leave it at that. Even super-stars have a limited amount of time and focus. For me, Diana has done just fine with both her career output and legendary family-matriarch status and I think any younger artist could not do better than to model their life/career balance on that of Diana Ross.
    Pack the kids off to Aunty Betty or even better boarding school and concentrate on the music i say.....
    But seriously... Of course Diana has done financially rather well and agree is a fine template for young and upcoming artists. The point i was making was why does being a busy, family oriented person automatically mean you can't put a little more effort into recording a good album. This is your musical legacy after all.
    No matter how you dress it up those first two RCA albums will never be considered jewels in Diana's crown. Sure she made lots of money........but yea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Pack the kids off to Aunty Betty or even better boarding school and concentrate on the music i say.....
    But seriously... Of course Diana has done financially rather well and agree is a fine template for young and upcoming artists. The point i was making was why does being a busy, family oriented person automatically mean you can't put a little more effort into recording a good album. This is your musical legacy after all.
    No matter how you dress it up those first two RCA albums will never be considered jewels in Diana's crown. Sure she made lots of money........but yea.
    i hear your point. I think the old phrase "you can't have it all" comes to mind. she wasn't just a recording artist, she was running her entire entertainment organization. Recording, tour management, production company, licensing, etc. Plus other business interests, raising three young children. There are only 24 hours in a day. The hours it takes to:

    review submitted tracks from writers, studio time, recording the backing tracks with musicians, recording it again cuz the first version wasn't so hot, recording it AGAIN cuz it was accidentally erased. producing the vocals. mixing. remixing. preparing the lineup for the lp, exploring mixes of songs for single edit versus album edit. photo shoots. designing the lp cover [[front and back), reworking the lp art. working with marketing agency for trade posters, rehearsing tracks for the next recording, rehearsing songs for the live shows, scheduling tv appearances, rehearsing for the tv show, taping. rehearsing for the video shoot, taping the video shoot, promotional interviews, appearances at local events like an art opening, premier of a movie, etc,

    and that's surely just a fraction of what was going on with her professional responsibilities. sure she had employees and assistants but we know she's not one to totally delegate responsibilities lol

    So at a certain point, something is going to be short changed. She rightly refused to sacrifice family. Therefore studio time perfecting music, time spent collaborating with producers might have been

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Pack the kids off to Aunty Betty or even better boarding school and concentrate on the music i say.....
    But seriously... Of course Diana has done financially rather well and agree is a fine template for young and upcoming artists. The point i was making was why does being a busy, family oriented person automatically mean you can't put a little more effort into recording a good album. This is your musical legacy after all.
    No matter how you dress it up those first two RCA albums will never be considered jewels in Diana's crown. Sure she made lots of money........but yea.
    Well, you value entertainment over family! So be it. We each have our our own values and priorities, I guess. Be well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I think what PeaceNHarmony meant was that she made music a very poor 2nd in her list of priorities at this time Ollie.
    I totally agree she was no producer but she did enjoy the freedom of doing what she wanted, even if her loyal fans were less than impressed with the results.
    If i am to be brutally honest she didn't really care that much whether her fans approved of her musical output . Her main priority was to provide financial stability for her girls. She succeeded in making herself large amounts of money whilst trying to be a hands on mother.
    Sadly what her long suffering fans wanted was not a priority for her.
    I'll 'ditto' what I just replied to Ollie, and am proud to be among the fans who never even once 'suffered' by something so unimportant as an lp that was not precisely to my individual liking! Miss Ross, you did great good, you did, and our world is better for your presence.
    Last edited by PeaceNHarmony; 11-07-2019 at 12:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    I'll 'ditto' what I just replied to Ollie, and am proud to be among the fans who never even once 'suffered' by something so unimportant as an lp that was not precisely to my individual liking! Miss Ross, you did great good, you did, and our world is better for your presence.
    To say i suffered might be classed as a slight exaggeration. I was most certainly a smidgen disappointed if my memory serves me right. Ah well, such is life. Onwards and upwards i say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i hear your point. I think the old phrase "you can't have it all" comes to mind. she wasn't just a recording artist, she was running her entire entertainment organization. Recording, tour management, production company, licensing, etc. Plus other business interests, raising three young children. There are only 24 hours in a day. The hours it takes to:

    review submitted tracks from writers, studio time, recording the backing tracks with musicians, recording it again cuz the first version wasn't so hot, recording it AGAIN cuz it was accidentally erased. producing the vocals. mixing. remixing. preparing the lineup for the lp, exploring mixes of songs for single edit versus album edit. photo shoots. designing the lp cover [[front and back), reworking the lp art. working with marketing agency for trade posters, rehearsing tracks for the next recording, rehearsing songs for the live shows, scheduling tv appearances, rehearsing for the tv show, taping. rehearsing for the video shoot, taping the video shoot, promotional interviews, appearances at local events like an art opening, premier of a movie, etc,

    and that's surely just a fraction of what was going on with her professional responsibilities. sure she had employees and assistants but we know she's not one to totally delegate responsibilities lol

    So at a certain point, something is going to be short changed. She rightly refused to sacrifice family. Therefore studio time perfecting music, time spent collaborating with producers might have been
    A really good post sup. I can see it all from that perspective as well. Whatever mistakes Diana made at the time, no one could ever claim she sat back and let it all happen.

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    I think the real issue fans have is that her POTENTIAL for amazing music really wasn't met while at RCA. for a typical artist, her sales and chart performance would be a wonderful thing. But this is MISS DIANA ROSS lol. and given that her motown career had finally sorted turned around, in terms of lp quality, the hope was that would continue.

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    Well Diana never disappointed me. Her RCA years were very exciting for me. The huge arena tours, new posters, beautiful tour programs at every new tour. A new album every year. The Central Park concert. I miss these times of her career. She was at the height of her fame. And I loved the music!

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    Ms. Ross never disappointed me either. Both the "The Force Behind the Power" and "Take Me Higher" albums were both beyond my expectations. In the 1980's,I used to tell my friends in NYC that I was not going out to the clubs, and that I would be home playing my Diana Ross and Supremes Albums. I told them that I would be dreaming about a Supremes Reunion in the year 2000! Well, in 2000, I was there opening night in Phila. The seats were expensive, yet the night was also my treat to my friends.To hear, Diana Ross sing "Reach Out, I"ll be There" was thrilling. The opening filmed montage was history! Luther Van Dross being there was the icing on the cake!🎁

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    The point i was making was why does being a busy, family oriented person automatically mean you can't put a little more effort into recording a good album.
    Because it's a bunch of boloney. Career women, then as now, find a way to juggle career and motherhood. It's difficult, but not impossible. Diana's priority was her family, and that's one of the reasons why I love this woman I have never met. So many showbiz folks put career ahead of family and then when the kids grow up, the tell alls come out, or the entertainer finds him/herself in a place where they suddenly realize that the money and fame ultimately were not worth the price of the sacrifice of the relationship with their children. Blessedly Diana will not be counted among that type. But the demands of family are never a reason for subpar work and only in a forum full of fanatics would such a thought be popular with anyone. Her RCA period showcased a mostly lazy artistic approach to recording. That the same woman who recorded beautiful renditions of Rodgers and Hart classics in the 60s and well received tracks of Billie Holiday numbers in the 70s could then turn around and record abysmal covers like "Rescue Me" and "Mr. Lee", had to boggle the minds of every non member of the Church of Diana during the RCA years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i hear your point. I think the old phrase "you can't have it all" comes to mind. she wasn't just a recording artist, she was running her entire entertainment organization. Recording, tour management, production company, licensing, etc. Plus other business interests, raising three young children. There are only 24 hours in a day. The hours it takes to:

    review submitted tracks from writers, studio time, recording the backing tracks with musicians, recording it again cuz the first version wasn't so hot, recording it AGAIN cuz it was accidentally erased. producing the vocals. mixing. remixing. preparing the lineup for the lp, exploring mixes of songs for single edit versus album edit. photo shoots. designing the lp cover [[front and back), reworking the lp art. working with marketing agency for trade posters, rehearsing tracks for the next recording, rehearsing songs for the live shows, scheduling tv appearances, rehearsing for the tv show, taping. rehearsing for the video shoot, taping the video shoot, promotional interviews, appearances at local events like an art opening, premier of a movie, etc,

    and that's surely just a fraction of what was going on with her professional responsibilities. sure she had employees and assistants but we know she's not one to totally delegate responsibilities lol

    So at a certain point, something is going to be short changed. She rightly refused to sacrifice family. Therefore studio time perfecting music, time spent collaborating with producers might have been
    All excellent points Sup. However, none of that excuses the poor work. It might explain some of it, but it doesn't excuse it. Diana was not a stupid woman, so at some point it had to occur to her that she was in over her head musically, and yet she continued to record subpar album after subpar album. Perhaps her unwillingness to delegate screwed her over. She was the head of her own "empire" attempting to do it all, rather than oversee people who were better equipped than she to handle certain responsibilities. Of course this is all hindsight musings and I still believe that despite some folks attempting to assign sadness to this woman because she doesn't do a million interviews or pal around with people in the industry, she is a very happy lady because of the family she raised. But when it comes to Diana's musical legacy, most people cut it off after she leaves Motown, and to me that's not Motown's doing, it's Diana's. So much classic music she could've given us from that period but...

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    I think the real issue fans have is that her POTENTIAL for amazing music really wasn't met while at RCA. for a typical artist, her sales and chart performance would be a wonderful thing. But this is MISS DIANA ROSS lol. and given that her motown career had finally sorted turned around, in terms of lp quality, the hope was that would continue.
    Ding, ding, ding!! Absolutely agree. And even at RCA there were IMO some great moments every now and then, such as "Mirror", "Swept Away" and "Missing You". "Muscles", for the time, also. Even "Chain Reaction", even though it didn't catch on here. So many unexplained duds in between single releases, and then non of the albums even came close to the classic quality of most of the fantastic albums she released on Motown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vgalindo View Post
    Well Diana never disappointed me. Her RCA years were very exciting for me. The huge arena tours, new posters, beautiful tour programs at every new tour. A new album every year. The Central Park concert. I miss these times of her career. She was at the height of her fame. And I loved the music!
    but there were little things along the way. it's stuff you notice more in retrospect than while it was happening

    we've pretty well dissected her first two albums. so not going to bother adding anything there

    But look at the haphazard go-to-market with Ross 83, which was released in June 83. Pieces of Ice is lead single, then Up Front and Let's Go Up. the Central Park show[[s) are in July. she's on Tonight Show in August but only does Let's Go Up. neither Pieces or Up Front get much national tv promotion

    And with swept away, the only used the picture from the album cover in all of her promotional material. never once did they pull in another image or two in order to make a varied campaign.

    it's just a series of lack of attention to details which ends up coming across as a lack of interest

    and if she didn't really care or respect the music, how can fans be expected to do so?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    All excellent points Sup. However, none of that excuses the poor work. It might explain some of it, but it doesn't excuse it. Diana was not a stupid woman, so at some point it had to occur to her that she was in over her head musically, and yet she continued to record subpar album after subpar album. Perhaps her unwillingness to delegate screwed her over. She was the head of her own "empire" attempting to do it all, rather than oversee people who were better equipped than she to handle certain responsibilities. Of course this is all hindsight musings and I still believe that despite some folks attempting to assign sadness to this woman because she doesn't do a million interviews or pal around with people in the industry, she is a very happy lady because of the family she raised. But when it comes to Diana's musical legacy, most people cut it off after she leaves Motown, and to me that's not Motown's doing, it's Diana's. So much classic music she could've given us from that period but...
    i agree. for a woman that had been, historically, so focused on perfection it's incredible that she was willing to let things slip so much in the 80s. She was contracted with RCA to deliver 1 lp a year. that's not a massive undertaking. with her easy access to Manhattan from her estate in Connecticut, she could have focused on all recording being done there.

    the problem is she seemed so focused on "control" that she never really appreciated that as "the boss" of course she was in control but by delegating you do have to relinquish some.

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    I knew “Missing you” was a top ten record but didn’t realize it is in the top 50 of Billboards biggest songs of 1985. Ranked higher than “Material Girl” by Madonna, Better be good to me” by Tina Turner and “Raspberry beret” by Prince and some other really big hits. She really needs to add this song back to her concert lineup. It was always one of the highlights of her shows for me. And is a favorite of many people I know

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill...ingles_of_1985

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Because it's a bunch of boloney. Career women, then as now, find a way to juggle career and motherhood. It's difficult, but not impossible. Diana's priority was her family, and that's one of the reasons why I love this woman I have never met. So many showbiz folks put career ahead of family and then when the kids grow up, the tell alls come out, or the entertainer finds him/herself in a place where they suddenly realize that the money and fame ultimately were not worth the price of the sacrifice of the relationship with their children. Blessedly Diana will not be counted among that type. But the demands of family are never a reason for subpar work and only in a forum full of fanatics would such a thought be popular with anyone. Her RCA period showcased a mostly lazy artistic approach to recording. That the same woman who recorded beautiful renditions of Rodgers and Hart classics in the 60s and well received tracks of Billie Holiday numbers in the 70s could then turn around and record abysmal covers like "Rescue Me" and "Mr. Lee", had to boggle the minds of every non member of the Church of Diana during the RCA years.
    Indeed. Her daughters were in a boarding school in Switzerland [[or wherever). It's not like she was picking them up from soccer practice three days a week. It's astonishing that anyone -- including the drama queen[[s) of SD -- could think that the lack of creativity and subpar quality of the RCA catalog was due to Ross's devotion to her family.

    Now, her hauling her 75th birthday trunk show from Oklahoma to Louisiana and assorted, as well as the upcoming UK dates, IS a sign of her devotion to her family. By the time she takes her final bow, Ross will ensure that no descendant of Fred and Ernestine Ross is left without. Good for her.
    Last edited by Guy; 11-07-2019 at 07:52 PM.

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    Diana took some chances and they were not always in favor of what the fans wanted but the key is she survived. She refused to be a victim again and if it was it was going to be her own doing. She recovered and is still standing and still a big draw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captainjames View Post
    Diana took some chances and they were not always in favor of what the fans wanted but the key is she survived. She refused to be a victim again and if it was it was going to be her own doing. She recovered and is still standing and still a big draw.
    Agree. I love her for this reason. She is the ultimate survivor -- though I am still indifferent to her insistence on closing shows with 'I Will Survive.'

    She sustained herself in a hostile music industry despite her gender, race, changing trends and the vagaries of age. Here and elsewhere there are those who belittle the extent [[or existence) of her talent, and her appeal, because she doesn't sing like this one or that one. Or because she is not a songwriter. Yet she thrives, quite spectacularly.

    It is to her enduring credit that despite three decades of poor-to-mediocre recordings -- and an unchanging setlist that mercifully ignores those recordings -- we still clamor to see her, to talk about her, and ultimately, to celebrate her.

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    She left Motown at exactly the right time....she would not have gotten the offer she did if she waited, and released a stiff after having the biggest solo LP / 4 top 10 singles in a year...Historically, up to this point her singles hits were spotty...she either went to #1 [[4 times) or missed the top 10 completely her entire solo career.....She was contemplating leaving once her contract ended. Gene Simmons just gave her the confidence to persue it...
    Smokey, of course, left with a ton more $$$ padding....he was the vice president for years, and had vast composer and producer credit income...I don't think offsetting expenses was a issue for him at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captainjames View Post
    Diana took some chances and they were not always in favor of what the fans wanted but the key is she survived. She refused to be a victim again and if it was it was going to be her own doing. She recovered and is still standing and still a big draw.
    All of that very true. However, it doesn't negate the issue at hand: Diana's music at RCA was largely a bust with audiences, especially the albums. When women she started out with were moving quality [[now classic) product, Diana was doing something else. I can't remember what the song is [[not "Eaten Alive") that she performed on the AMAs when she hosted in 87 but I've only watched the performance once and I cringed the entire time. I was thinking there she is in front of an audience of folks like Dionne Warwick, Gladys Knight and who knows else, and she's doing this? It was painful. I imagine her peers were shaking their heads and thinking "My how the mighty has fallen".

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    for the early years at RCA, it seems that her whole focus was "oh yes i can!"

    yes i can be a producer, yes i can sing 10,000 different musical styles from hard rock and roll to reggae to pop, yes i can handle all aspects of my career.

    after being controlled for so long, the first couple years simply seem to be her experimenting for the sake of experimenting

    then we approach the mid 80s and she's now 40 years old. she might have been panicked a bit by the arrival of the new female pop stars and so she desperately attempts to be trendy with her music

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    All of that very true. However, it doesn't negate the issue at hand: Diana's music at RCA was largely a bust with audiences, especially the albums. When women she started out with were moving quality [[now classic) product, Diana was doing something else. I can't remember what the song is [[not "Eaten Alive") that she performed on the AMAs when she hosted in 87 but I've only watched the performance once and I cringed the entire time. I was thinking there she is in front of an audience of folks like Dionne Warwick, Gladys Knight and who knows else, and she's doing this? It was painful. I imagine her peers were shaking their heads and thinking "My how the mighty has fallen".
    TOUCH BY TOUCH from the Swept Away album.

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    she also did Eaten Alive on the AMA's. at least with this version you can hear the lyrics, as non-sensicle as they are

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    TOUCH BY TOUCH from the Swept Away album.
    I thought “Touch by Touch” was perfect for the opening of the AMA. She looked so beautiful and the song was a good choice with all the dancers and props.

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    Diana definitely wanted control. She had seen her peers get control and she wanted to assert herself more. I think even she would admit nowadays that she bit off more than she could chew.

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    Some interesting thoughts there on her move from Motown.

    I think it was surely chiefly monetary.

    It has been suggested that Motown was deliberately underquoting sales levels in order to avoid paying royalties to artists.

    J. Randy Taraborrelli claimed that Diana was furious and thought she was being lied to when she received her Royalty cheque for It's My Turn for sales somewhere below 450k - the record had reached 9 in the Billboard Top 100 and was 21 weeks in the chart.

    Apparently this was a major bone of contention between Diana and Berry.

    However it could be that the record didn't sell as well as thought.

    Generally Diana's bigger hits all charted higher in Cash Box and Record World [[Reach Out And Touch, Remember Me and Last Time I Saw Him all going To 10) yet It's My Turn peaked at #18 on CB and #20 on RW.

    There were also suggestions that Berry Gordy Jnr. had "bought" the placing on BB in an effort to persuade Diana that her future remained bright with Motown.

    Who knows!

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    Quote Originally Posted by florence View Post
    Some interesting thoughts there on her move from Motown.

    I think it was surely chiefly monetary.

    It has been suggested that Motown was deliberately underquoting sales levels in order to avoid paying royalties to artists.

    J. Randy Taraborrelli claimed that Diana was furious and thought she was being lied to when she received her Royalty cheque for It's My Turn for sales somewhere below 450k - the record had reached 9 in the Billboard Top 100 and was 21 weeks in the chart.

    Apparently this was a major bone of contention between Diana and Berry.

    However it could be that the record didn't sell as well as thought.

    Generally Diana's bigger hits all charted higher in Cash Box and Record World [[Reach Out And Touch, Remember Me and Last Time I Saw Him all going To 10) yet It's My Turn peaked at #18 on CB and #20 on RW.

    There were also suggestions that Berry Gordy Jnr. had "bought" the placing on BB in an effort to persuade Diana that her future remained bright with Motown.

    Who knows!
    I wished I could tell you what one of his lawyers from back in the 60s said one day in NYC while I was waiting for meeting, but I can't LOL!

    Anyway, It has been said that the Supremes would only receive something between $6-7,000 each for a million selling single back in the 60s. That's peanuts. They also had a royalty rate of 3 cents per single which was split between the 3 of them .
    Last edited by marv2; 11-08-2019 at 10:08 PM.

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    Did any artist walk away from Motown feeling set for life?
    Lionel Richie seems to want to have nothing to do with the association.....

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