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  1. #51
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    I remember liking Silk originally as I was severely disappointed on WDFFIL. Both albums could be combined into one lp.
    Ross was a better lp but I thought wrong singles .
    Swept away was good minus We r the children.prefer Fight For it.
    Eaten alive was good but....less Bee gees on a few tracks while others I really like.

  2. #52
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    I agree with Marv and Bluebrock that Jackie Ross's original version of "Selfish One" is better than Diana Ross's revival.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    I agree with Marv and Bluebrock that Jackie Ross's original version of "Selfish One" is better than Diana Ross's revival.
    Yes it is. Nothing at all wrong with Diana's version, but she adds nothing new to what is a great original version.

  4. #54
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    I prefer Diana Ross's version. It's dramatic and cinematic and playful and I love Ross's singing on this. The original is good but sounded like a follow-up for Mary Wells.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky2012 View Post
    I prefer Diana Ross's version. It's dramatic and cinematic and playful and I love Ross's singing on this. The original is good but sounded like a follow-up for Mary Wells.
    A lot of singers were adopting that style then, so it probably sounds more similar to Mary Wells now than it did at the time.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    this is reaaalllly good.
    Could it be my favorite RCA years recording by her?? On this day, YES! I've never heard it before , nor the original from 1964 by Jackie Ross , which is also spectacular . I like the handclaps on it and Jackie's vocal closing out of the record.
    But Diana's rendition is spot on , respectful and true to the original. Has a bit of a Rose Royce feel to it. No fake instruments ,only the real stuff, and not a synth in earshot. . At first I thought her voice seemed too high , but I've changed my mind.
    Great song I'm happy to learn of.

    OMG THERES A BLOODY VIDEO, I BLOODY LOVE IT, I LOVE THIS SONG too!!!!!!!!!

  7. #57
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    Diana says you need to go for the hooks and she sure does on this song

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    A lot of singers were adopting that style then, so it probably sounds more similar to Mary Wells now than it did at the time.
    Anecdotally, this song was actually written with Mary Wells in mind. She was struggling at 20th Century Fox and needed a hit. Either she passed on the song or perhaps it never even got to her, but it’s definitely following the “My Guy” formula: using an intro and break from an old tin-pan alley song. In the case of “My Guy” it was a few bars of “Canadian Sunset;” with “Selfish One” it was a few bars of “Tenderly.”

    Because DJs were reluctant to play Mary’s post-Motown tracks, had she actually recorded “Selfish One,” it would probably not have charted, so Jackie Ross was ultimately a better choice.

  9. #59
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    Diana does a great cover of it. I think deep down, Diana, much like Patti LaBelle, loved doing those type of songs [[though Patti seemed to go more into an urban contemporary department around this time). Diana strikes me as someone who, if she had her way, the type of songs she did as a Supreme would remain. It's not surprising she would successfully tackle a hit '60s song as "Selfish One".

    However, RHR&B was probably Diana at one of her worst, in RCA and Motown, overall. Most of the songs seem like she was just doing it to finish the ill-fated contract with RCA. The label never recouped the $20 million they signed Diana to. Artistically, Diana was in a rut, which started after Swept Away was released. I think RCA and Diana clashed on what they wanted her to do. Maybe RCA wanted her to do what Whitney and Janet were doing and she was resistant to do it [[much like Donna Summer was told that doing pop oriented and rock oriented stuff, not to mention her doing spiritual music, was not the answer at Geffen since they signed her on her past disco glory).

    Diana took a while to get her musical groove back and the last three albums she recorded during her second tenure at Motown finally saw an artistically satisfying period for her though obviously she was never to reach commercial acclaim again.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Diana does a great cover of it. I think deep down, Diana, much like Patti LaBelle, loved doing those type of songs [[though Patti seemed to go more into an urban contemporary department around this time). Diana strikes me as someone who, if she had her way, the type of songs she did as a Supreme would remain. It's not surprising she would successfully tackle a hit '60s song as "Selfish One".

    However, RHR&B was probably Diana at one of her worst, in RCA and Motown, overall. Most of the songs seem like she was just doing it to finish the ill-fated contract with RCA. The label never recouped the $20 million they signed Diana to. Artistically, Diana was in a rut, which started after Swept Away was released. I think RCA and Diana clashed on what they wanted her to do. Maybe RCA wanted her to do what Whitney and Janet were doing and she was resistant to do it [[much like Donna Summer was told that doing pop oriented and rock oriented stuff, not to mention her doing spiritual music, was not the answer at Geffen since they signed her on her past disco glory).

    Diana took a while to get her musical groove back and the last three albums she recorded during her second tenure at Motown finally saw an artistically satisfying period for her though obviously she was never to reach commercial acclaim again.
    It's funny. She was complaining that RCA wasn't doing enough for her. Motown was doing too much and RCA, not enough. Well what was it Diane? LOL! RCA assumed, just like Diana Ross that it was her voice and it alone that sold records. Neither ever considered all of that attention to the writing of the songs for her voice and ability, song selection, production,and heavy promotion Motown did to make her records hit. I have to believe Berry Gordy got more than a little satisfaction from Ross' post Motown predicament. LOL!!!!
    Last edited by marv2; 11-09-2019 at 11:09 PM.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    It's funny. She was complaining that RCA wasn't doing enough for her. Motown was doing too much and RCA, not enough. Well what was it Diane? LOL! RCA assumed, just like Diana Ross that it was her voice and it alone that sold records. Neither ever considered all of that attention to the writing of the songs for her voice and ability, song selection, production,and heavy promotion Motown did to make her records hit. I have to believe Berry Gordy got more than a little satisfaction from Ross' post Motown predicament. LOL!!!!
    What’s so funny. Her first album on RCA she hit platinum with 2 top ten hits! Her second album was gold with a top ten hit! Then her 4th RCA album was an international best seller with a #1 UK hit. Her 5th RCA album went gold with another top ten single. Not too shabby IMO. I know Gladys, Dionne, etc were not having this kind of success. And I know your idol Mary Wilson probably would kill to have this type of success. Lol.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    It's funny. She was complaining that RCA wasn't doing enough for her. Motown was doing too much and RCA, not enough. Well what was it Diane? LOL! RCA assumed, just like Diana Ross that it was her voice and it alone that sold records. Neither ever considered all of that attention to the writing of the songs for her voice and ability, song selection, production,and heavy promotion Motown did to make her records hit. I have to believe Berry Gordy got more than a little satisfaction from Ross' post Motown predicament. LOL!!!!
    I believe Gordy got satisfaction out of folks like Mary Wells, Flo Ballard, even Mary Wilson, failing to find success outside of Motown. I don't believe he was that petty when it came to Diana because she was more than an artist to him. Not only was she the mother of one of his children, but she was the key to most of his biggest triumphs. I'm sure he was like any of the rest of us: we get mad but we still want the best for the ones we love. He loved her, and she him. Neither of them would've gotten satisfaction out of the other failing.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by vgalindo View Post
    What’s so funny. Her first album on RCA she hit platinum with 2 top ten hits! Her second album was gold with a top ten hit! Then her 4th RCA album was an international best seller with a #1 UK hit. Her 5th RCA album went gold with another top ten single. Not too shabby IMO. I know Gladys, Dionne, etc were not having this kind of success. And I know your idol Mary Wilson probably would kill to have this type of success. Lol.
    Gladys had two gold albums during this period and while she wasn't putting up worthy numbers pop, she, along with the Pips, cut some big successful singles during that time too, songs that have held up a lot longer than most anything Ross cooked up during the same time period. And Dionne also had two gold albums as well as cutting the mega hit "Thats What Friends Are For". There isn't anything Diana did at RCA that even approaches the impact of that song. And that's the problem. These women were staying true to who they were as artists, whether the results were always accepted or not. Diana was not and it shows.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Gladys had two gold albums during this period and while she wasn't putting up worthy numbers pop, she, along with the Pips, cut some big successful singles during that time too, songs that have held up a lot longer than most anything Ross cooked up during the same time period. And Dionne also had two gold albums as well as cutting the mega hit "Thats What Friends Are For". There isn't anything Diana did at RCA that even approaches the impact of that song. And that's the problem. These women were staying true to who they were as artists, whether the results were always accepted or not. Diana was not and it shows.
    Gladys did have a few successful singles but none crossed over to Billboards pop top ten and she surely didn’t have a platinum album or anything thing close to it. And I agree Dionne’s record was huge but let’s be fair here. Her record was for a charity for aids research at the time when Aids was all in the news. And it had Stevie, Elton, and Gladys singing with her. Kinda like “We are the World”. No way it wasn’t going to be huge.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I believe Gordy got satisfaction out of folks like Mary Wells, Flo Ballard, even Mary Wilson, failing to find success outside of Motown. I don't believe he was that petty when it came to Diana because she was more than an artist to him. Not only was she the mother of one of his children, but she was the key to most of his biggest triumphs. I'm sure he was like any of the rest of us: we get mad but we still want the best for the ones we love. He loved her, and she him. Neither of them would've gotten satisfaction out of the other failing.
    That would be nice if you were right, but I know better!

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by vgalindo View Post
    Gladys did have a few successful singles but none crossed over to Billboards pop top ten and she surely didn’t have a platinum album or anything thing close to it. And I agree Dionne’s record was huge but let’s be fair here. Her record was for a charity for aids research at the time when Aids was all in the news. And it had Stevie, Elton, and Gladys singing with her. Kinda like “We are the World”. No way it wasn’t going to be huge.
    Yeah, and there's no reason why Diana couldn't have been doing equally excellent work. She was so concerned with competing with the likes of Madonna and whatever new girl was on the block, while her peers were figuring out how to make money, remain relevant, and stay true to their art. That's my gripe, that Diana sat the last one aside choosing to focus on making money and remaining relevant. Her focus on those things prevented her from continuing her musical relevancy [[as a current artist not a legacy artist which she'll always be) and from making more money. Can you imagine the kind of money she could've raked in had she recorded a blockbuster album? She was still in her prime. There was more left in the tank.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Yeah, and there's no reason why Diana couldn't have been doing equally excellent work. She was so concerned with competing with the likes of Madonna and whatever new girl was on the block, while her peers were figuring out how to make money, remain relevant, and stay true to their art. That's my gripe, that Diana sat the last one aside choosing to focus on making money and remaining relevant. Her focus on those things prevented her from continuing her musical relevancy [[as a current artist not a legacy artist which she'll always be) and from making more money. Can you imagine the kind of money she could've raked in had she recorded a blockbuster album? She was still in her prime. There was more left in the tank.
    I totally agree. Although at the time I enjoyed her RCA material, I also wanted her to do albums in the same style of Dionne, Patti but especially Gladys Knight. Gladys was making great R&B albums. Which is my favorite music style. She would have had such bigger hits if she went that route. IMO

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by vgalindo View Post
    I totally agree. Although at the time I enjoyed her RCA material, I also wanted her to do albums in the same style of Dionne, Patti but especially Gladys Knight. Gladys was making great R&B albums. Which is my favorite music style. She would have had such bigger hits if she went that route. IMO
    She was not interested in making an r&b album . Luther did everything in his power to get her to agree to let him produce her. He sent her demos, flowers and other gifts. He wined and dined her and they struck up a good relationship, but he was starstruck and always in awe of her. He followed her around like a little puppy. It was all very cute, but he was never granted his wish to produce a full album on her.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAl View Post
    Anecdotally, this song was actually written with Mary Wells in mind. She was struggling at 20th Century Fox and needed a hit. Either she passed on the song or perhaps it never even got to her, but it’s definitely following the “My Guy” formula: using an intro and break from an old tin-pan alley song. In the case of “My Guy” it was a few bars of “Canadian Sunset;” with “Selfish One” it was a few bars of “Tenderly.”

    Because DJs were reluctant to play Mary’s post-Motown tracks, had she actually recorded “Selfish One,” it would probably not have charted, so Jackie Ross was ultimately a better choice.
    Well remembered! I'd completely forgotten about the "Canadian Sunset"/ "Tenderly" parallel.

    That does indeed give credence to the Mary Wells theory. It also gives me the chance to do a quick plug for Jackie Ross's excellent Ace CD, "Jerk & Twine - The Complete Chess Recordings", which also contains "Selfish One" clone, "New Lover".
    Last edited by 144man; 11-15-2019 at 06:57 AM.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    Well remembered! I'd completely forgotten about the "Canadian Sunset"/ "Tenderly" parallel.

    That does indeed give credence to the Mary Wells theory. It also gives me the chance to do a quick plug for Jackie Ross's excellent Ace CD, "Jerk & Twine - The Complete Chess Recordings", which also contains "Selfish One" clone, "New Lover".
    Mercy..."New Lover" and "Selfish One" are identical. Different lyrics and slightly different arrangement but the same song. I winder what that was all about.

    Mary Wells used the same device of taking a few bars of a pop standard/show tune with her debut Atco single, "Dear Lover." In that one, the tune lifted was "Hello, Young Lovers." Talk about working a shtick to death!

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    Well remembered! I'd completely forgotten about the "Canadian Sunset"/ "Tenderly" parallel.

    That does indeed give credence to the Mary Wells theory. It also gives me the chance to do a quick plug for Jackie Ross's excellent Ace CD, "Jerk & Twine - The Complete Chess Recordings", which also contains "Selfish One" clone, "New Lover".
    Jackie Ross Ace cd is indeed excellent and well worth investigating.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAl View Post
    Mercy..."New Lover" and "Selfish One" are identical. Different lyrics and slightly different arrangement but the same song. I winder what that was all about.

    Mary Wells used the same device of taking a few bars of a pop standard/show tune with her debut Atco single, "Dear Lover." In that one, the tune lifted was "Hello, Young Lovers." Talk about working a shtick to death!
    Additionally "Everything But Love" is very similar to "Jerk & Twine".

  23. #73
    Fitting song for her.

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    It's funny. She was complaining that RCA wasn't doing enough for her. Motown was doing too much and RCA, not enough. Well what was it Diane? LOL! RCA assumed, just like Diana Ross that it was her voice and it alone that sold records. Neither ever considered all of that attention to the writing of the songs for her voice and ability, song selection, production,and heavy promotion Motown did to make her records hit. I have to believe Berry Gordy got more than a little satisfaction from Ross' post Motown predicament. LOL!!!!
    That's so true. She seems like a very mean person. I don't like her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by REYnoldo Chavez View Post
    That's so true. She seems like a very mean person. I don't like her.
    You may not like her but there are millions that do!

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAl View Post
    Mercy..."New Lover" and "Selfish One" are identical. Different lyrics and slightly different arrangement but the same song. I winder what that was all about.

    Mary Wells used the same device of taking a few bars of a pop standard/show tune with her debut Atco single, "Dear Lover." In that one, the tune lifted was "Hello, Young Lovers." Talk about working a shtick to death!
    I know. How many songs are gonna have the same type of melody and pitch!!!

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