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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Motown may have intended the Supremes to have a main lead singer, but if that's the case then Motown would've passed on "Touch" and focused on a Jean led single. Whatever the reason behind "Touch" being a single, something happened from the producer's standpoint of why two leads became a duet. That's what I'm really interested in. What was the rationale from a production standpoint? Was the song always meant to be a duet but Frank wanted each girl to sing a separate lead so that he could get the best parts of both? Did Frank cut "Touch" with the intention of having only one girl lead it and then after hearing the playback decide that he wanted to go in a different direction and thus have another girl do the lead? And then if after all of that, did he suddenly figure neither girl had the clear cut better version but if he took the best of both parts he could create a perfect song?

    I am really hoping someone, somewhere, picked Frank Wilson's brain on his work with the Supremes.
    i think mary was pushing to establish a larger role for herself within the Supremes post-Diana. she was taking on more of the spokeperson role in interviews, more of the onstage dialog. a large featured solo spot. Then into 71, I think she was pushing for more lead material on lps. of course i'm just speculating here. but i would assume it was coming from mary and not motown.

    So frank i think looked at a song like Touch and figured she could do a fine job with it. and i think she did. As they were assembling the lp, i'm assuming they consider both the M and the J solo lead versions of Touch and maybe Frank thought "hmmm perhaps this song is strong enough to be a single." Then since the idea of a full mary lead on a single was pretty remote, they decided to do the duet version.

    As much as i love the Frank work, he did do Everybody's Got the Right. which IMO was a poor follow up to Ladder. so i don't think it's that far of a stretch to think he thought Touch would be a superstar. Especially after the Temps just had a huge hit with Just My Imagination which was released in Jan 71

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by danman869 View Post
    That's a really good point, RanRan... Maybe "Touch" would've fared better as a love duet--between The Supremes and The Four Tops? It does make sense to either have one [[female) voice singing it [[to her intended) or a man and woman singing it back and forth to one another. I also agree that the song was more suited to Mary's smoky alto than Jean's soprano/her talents. Coulda-woulda-shoulda, but I almost wish Mary circa 1975, after she'd been taking vocal training and seemingly "came into her voice" a bit better, would've been able to sing the "Touch" single in 1971. It definitely needed an assertive delivery, but still sexy. Mary's voice in '71 was a tad thin. Don't get me wrong, though--I like Mary on "Touch"!
    oh the duet idea with the Tops would have been a strong one! it could have easily been part of Return of Mag 7. Jean and Levi doing the bulk but maybe with small lines given out to the rest of them.

    I don't know that i fully agree that in 75 mary was coming into her voice. I do agree she was improving but most of her leads on Sup 75 are rather uninspired IMO. Don't Let My Teardrops is a stunner - that's probably her most emotional and accomplished lead during the Sup years. Followed closely by We Should Be Closer.

    Can We Love Again was IMO her strongest Sup 75 track. Where Is It I Belong is hideous in nearly every way lol - her lead is dull, the backing vocals are sung well but useless, inane lyrics. Turn Me Around is a strong one though.

  3. #103
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    I agree sup_fan. I'm not a fan of Mary's voice but I absolutely love Teardrops. I think it's the best thing she ever did and I cant understand why she's never performed as a soloist.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    oh the duet idea with the Tops would have been a strong one! it could have easily been part of Return of Mag 7. Jean and Levi doing the bulk but maybe with small lines given out to the rest of them.

    I don't know that i fully agree that in 75 mary was coming into her voice. I do agree she was improving but most of her leads on Sup 75 are rather uninspired IMO. Don't Let My Teardrops is a stunner - that's probably her most emotional and accomplished lead during the Sup years. Followed closely by We Should Be Closer.

    Can We Love Again was IMO her strongest Sup 75 track. Where Is It I Belong is hideous in nearly every way lol - her lead is dull, the backing vocals are sung well but useless, inane lyrics. Turn Me Around is a strong one though.
    Have to agree with you here. Where is it i belong is just dreadful. Mary's delivery is dull, bland and quite frankly poor, but the song itself is awful and even a good vocalist would have trouble in making that song sound good.
    By the time of the final pair of albums she was beginning to find her feet somewhat. Teardrops and you are the heart of me were perfect for her
    and she grasped the opportunity. She should have progressed from here. Instead she performed ghastly versions of Supremes classics which were never going to find widespread favour. I am no fan of her vocal ability but i would much rather hear her sing those ballads than those Supremes songs .
    Last edited by Bluebrock; 10-21-2019 at 01:15 PM. Reason: Not finished the post

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by floyjoy678 View Post
    I agree sup_fan. I'm not a fan of Mary's voice but I absolutely love Teardrops. I think it's the best thing she ever did and I cant understand why she's never performed as a soloist.
    i agree. and her live performance on Mike Douglas is probably her best live singing i've seen. excellent

    don't know if they ever really added Teardrops to their live material aside from that show. they most certainly should have. and dropped The Way We Were. would be much preferred to have her sing one of HER songs and sing it beautifully.

    You Are Heart Of Me seems to only be done as a lip sync which is odd. they did it several times on tv so you would think they would have eventually done it live.

    but again, their live work was so hit or miss during this time

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by danman869 View Post
    Sup_Fan, I totally get what you're saying about having a feeling [[and rightfully so) that you might never see [[CDs) again, so just buying all of them when you had the chance. That's basically how I've spent my entire 32 years of being a Supremes/Motown fan. If you see something and you want it, buy it. Unless the price is absolutely outrageous, you need to just get it. Every once in awhile, I'll see a poster here saying something to the effect of, "I wish I'd bought _____ when it first came out because now it's [[outrageously expensive)." There have been a few things along the way that I wish I'd bought when it first came out, but I've adjusted. I've filled in the collection with a few pricey purchases after-the-fact, but now? If you think you might want something, Supremes, Motown, or anything, just BUY IT.
    I agree with you, which is probably why I have a house full of stuff that I've hoarded over the years and now don't know what to do with!

    Seriously, though, I never bought the "This is the Story" Jean Terrell Years Box Set when it first came out because it only had a few previously unreleased tracks on it [[the "Promises Kept" sessions). Later the box set was selling at huge prices on Amazon and even today I see it listed for $400. Luckily, thanks to the great groups of fans here and a very generous member, I was able to buy the box set from him and he didn't even charge me more than the original price.

    That led me to buying the sets on Debarge and some others who I honestly never even listened to as a fan, and haven't even played since I bought them!

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by franjoy56 View Post
    In supreme glamour which i love t death my supreme bible except f one or two errors. mary speaks of her joy and happiness over motown delivering t right on album w t flawless cover and gatefold poster. She says jean vocals on all t tracks was magical all t songs carried a universal theme she also states that even though other voices were used to fill out our sound we were still there. Which makes sense because t idea was to bring mary snd cindy back into t fold as singers unlike how they were not used or buried in t music from 67 through 69.
    This was their best album in a very long time up to that point.

  8. #108
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    Could it be their best ever?

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    Could it be their best ever?
    I can agree with that. Every song on it was good to excellent. It flowed very well. It also does not sound real dated listening to it today.

  10. #110
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    I think Motown delivered two great debited for Ross and the Supremes.
    Both albums were flawless.
    Would love an expanded version of Right On......Life Beats and That's How Much You Made me Love You were two classic out takes

  11. #111
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  12. #112
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    This is an extended version of one of my favorite cuts from the album:


  13. #113
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    The most underrated song from Right On IMO. I’m having trouble posting and deleting! It’s- You Move Me.
    Last edited by luke; 10-27-2019 at 11:42 PM.

  14. #114
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    They sound like soulful angels....


  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    Could it be their best ever?
    I don't know if I would award that, but definitely in the running. While I don't like every song on the album, I can say song for song the album is excellently executed. I feel the same about the Love Child album. I think care went into constructing the tracks for both albums. If it were not for the out of place "Time And Love", I would award Touch the best Supremes album. It's just that one song that throws me off.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    The most underrated song from Right On IMO. I’m having trouble posting and deleting! It’s- You Move Me.
    I love "You Move Me". It took a long time for it to grow on me but that intro has Jean sounding so flawless. Goodness that lady could sing!

  17. #117
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    Thanks Marv. Perfect description!

  18. #118
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    I love all the voices on that song. Jean is amazing. Music critics have not given her her due.

  19. #119
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    Right On is a superb album. and that's absolutely astounding given the number of producers involved.

    I don't think it's the best album of the Supremes or even the best Jean album. I think Touch gets that's credit [[even with the dumb Time & Love). This is getting very nit-picky but by the time they did Touch, Jean was a MUCH more developed recording artist. Notice i'm not saying singer - she sang the hell out of tracks on RO. but she gives a much more varied performance with the Touch material. her anguish on This Is The Story, her sassiness on Nathan and Raven, her reverence on Love It Came To me, love and affection on Sunrise and Happy is bumpy. She digs deeper in the material, offers up more compelling vocal performances, experiments more with different tones and approaches.

  20. #120
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    I love But I Love You More and Then I met You

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Right On is a superb album. and that's absolutely astounding given the number of producers involved.

    I don't think it's the best album of the Supremes or even the best Jean album. I think Touch gets that's credit [[even with the dumb Time & Love). This is getting very nit-picky but by the time they did Touch, Jean was a MUCH more developed recording artist. Notice i'm not saying singer - she sang the hell out of tracks on RO. but she gives a much more varied performance with the Touch material. her anguish on This Is The Story, her sassiness on Nathan and Raven, her reverence on Love It Came To me, love and affection on Sunrise and Happy is bumpy. She digs deeper in the material, offers up more compelling vocal performances, experiments more with different tones and approaches.
    It is my personal favorite 70's Supremes album. Not a weak song on there, and Jean sounded great. New Ways was also great but had a couple of weak covers on there. Touch was very good, but i think the quality level dipped thereafter with Floy Joy and of course Jimmy Webb.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    It is my personal favorite 70's Supremes album. Not a weak song on there, and Jean sounded great. New Ways was also great but had a couple of weak covers on there. Touch was very good, but i think the quality level dipped thereafter with Floy Joy and of course Jimmy Webb.
    i agree that all 12 tracks on RO are excellent and it's a great album to listen to.

    T&L is a dud on Touch and mars the overall lp IMO. had that song been replaced with something else, then I'd probably say RO was stronger. Again, i say that jean's singing is even better on Touch than RO as she had more room to experiment and had grown as an artist by that point

    NW had a lot of potential but i agree, the covers are too much. I like Bridge [[although wow, there's a lot going on) and Come Together is so weird it's interesting. Na Na is one too many and should have been swapped with another Sup track. perhaps life beats

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i agree that all 12 tracks on RO are excellent and it's a great album to listen to.

    T&L is a dud on Touch and mars the overall lp IMO. had that song been replaced with something else, then I'd probably say RO was stronger. Again, i say that jean's singing is even better on Touch than RO as she had more room to experiment and had grown as an artist by that point

    NW had a lot of potential but i agree, the covers are too much. I like Bridge [[although wow, there's a lot going on) and Come Together is so weird it's interesting. Na Na is one too many and should have been swapped with another Sup track. perhaps life beats
    I don't know how Life Beats got canned. I listen to it regularly. I would have used it on New Ways to replace one of the covers. I do love their dramatic version of Bridge, but as for the other two.......

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i agree that all 12 tracks on RO are excellent and it's a great album to listen to.

    T&L is a dud on Touch and mars the overall lp IMO. had that song been replaced with something else, then I'd probably say RO was stronger. Again, i say that jean's singing is even better on Touch than RO as she had more room to experiment and had grown as an artist by that point

    NW had a lot of potential but i agree, the covers are too much. I like Bridge [[although wow, there's a lot going on) and Come Together is so weird it's interesting. Na Na is one too many and should have been swapped with another Sup track. perhaps life beats
    I agree about Jean's singing from RO to Touch, but I'm not convinced that it was so much growth rather than simply having more complex songs to sing. The material on Touch was IMO more advanced than most of that found on Right On. It may be my bias as a HUGE Jean fan, but I suspect that had Touch been the debut album in 1970, Jean would've sung those songs in much the same way as she did the following year.

    Right On was excellently executed and definitely bridged the gap between who the Supremes were with Diana and who they would become with Jean.

    New Ways is overrated IMO. The ingredients were there for a concept album, but I think they played it safe by including the love songs [[as in "romantic") and the cover of "Na Na" and for me the album comes across a bit uneven. [[Not to mention how much I loath their version of "Bridge" and that damn foghorn.)

    Touch would've been perfect if not for that damned "Time And Love".

    Floy Joy also would've been perfect IMO if not for "Your Wonderful Sweet Love". Artistically speaking, it was a very nice vocal album. Jean and Mary were on it here.

    Jimmy Webb just wasn't a well thought out project. The presence of additional vocalists made the record sound like something other than the Supremes. Of course the Andantes had been added to the backgrounds even on some cuts on Floy Joy, but it was done as enhancement, not as a choir. Jean's singing was superb on most of the cuts but the song selection just doesn't do it for me.

  25. #125
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    I can get over the foghorn today as i just play it off as something they were experimenting with at the time. i do agree it would have been better without. And i do think they had the makings of a strong concept album had they made just a few adjustments. Potentially as close as the Tops' Still Water album. again, with a few adjustments

    i'm not aware of any other canned tracks between the release of NW and Touch that could have been a potential replacement for T&L. I'm sure there must be a couple. Or potentially one of the Frank tracks from Dynamite could have been done as just Sups.

    I like the overall FJ set, YWSSL included. I don't think that track should have been a single. the live version is a bit more animated and faster, which helps it. but much of the rest of the lp is gorgeous IMO

  26. #126
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    "Time And Love" isn't a bad song, it's just on the wrong album. Actually if they had placed "T&L" on New Ways it would've been a better fit. Maybe put "Mirror" on Touch in "Time"'s place, since they're both uptempo songs.

    I like "Sweet Love" also, but it sounds out of place on the Floy Joy album. If there was going to be a third single from the album, "Sweet" makes the most sense. And it did make some noise on release so it wasn't a total bust. I realize it's a Smokey tune, but "Sweet" might have sounded good in place of "Time" on Touch. I really wish Smokey had the group revisit "A Breath Taking Guy". I would've loved to hear what Jean would've done with it. Mary also for a nice change.

  27. #127
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    actually i think you're right. T&L could have worked on NW.

    Other songs i think for New Ways could have been Life Beats, Mind Body & Soul. Or perhaps they could have held Everybody's Got The Right and given themselves more time to really do something with it. That would have fit thematically with the universal love/god/peace theme. I like Come Tog but i know others don't. Maybe it and Na Na come off of New Ways and you end up with:

    Together We Can Make
    Stone Love
    Time to break down
    Bridge
    I wish i was your mirror

    Time and love
    is there a place
    life beats
    shine on me
    thank him for today

    In place of Everybody in RO, The Day Will Come Between Sunday and Monday would have been a good one. And in place of T&L on Touch, perhaps Steppin On A Dream

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I like "Sweet Love" also, but it sounds out of place on the Floy Joy album. If there was going to be a third single from the album, "Sweet" makes the most sense. And it did make some noise on release so it wasn't a total bust. I realize it's a Smokey tune, but "Sweet" might have sounded good in place of "Time" on Touch. I really wish Smokey had the group revisit "A Breath Taking Guy". I would've loved to hear what Jean would've done with it. Mary also for a nice change.
    I think Sweet works on the album and makes a decent opener. You needed something upbeat since so much of the lp is a slower groove. I just hate Smokey's voice on it. it's done so oddly - sounds weird. Either just go on out and do a duet or get rid of his voice.

  29. #129
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    I remember a song called Remote Control that would have worked on Touch.
    I liked YWSS Love on Floy Joy but not Smokey's voice.but it's ok...I think it drags a bit.the live version rocks.always hoped for a remix of this song.
    Maybe one day...70s lost n found.
    Life beats would have been great on RO

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    Didn't Frank Wilson produce love train in 73.
    Wonder what other songs he did with them. That would be a cool mine find

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    I think Sweet works on the album and makes a decent opener. You needed something upbeat since so much of the lp is a slower groove. I just hate Smokey's voice on it. it's done so oddly - sounds weird. Either just go on out and do a duet or get rid of his voice.
    I don't think I ever knew that was Smokey's voice, though I never really played that album much. I know a lot of fans like the album [[and I think it was Mary's favorite) but I found it dull and too much "sameness" in the song selection.

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    Didn't Frank Wilson produce love train in 73.
    Wonder what other songs he did with them. That would be a cool mine find
    yes Frank produced Love Train. I'm not sure what else was done. the girls frankly weren't recording much [[that we know of) during this time. after the Jimmy Webb sessions, there doesn't seem to be much studio activity until the Stevie material in early 73. Someone had speculated that Remote Control was MJL track. not sure as it's never been formally released and we don't have the session info.

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    OMG, can people stop the bitching about "Time And Love", one of my absolute SUPREME favourites!

    P.S. I actually quite like the song, both versions in fact [[Diana / The Supremes)

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomatoTom123 View Post
    OMG, can people stop the bitching about "Time And Love", one of my absolute SUPREME favourites!

    P.S. I actually quite like the song, both versions in fact [[Diana / The Supremes)
    Have you ever heard this fantasy duet with Diana and Jean that Mosogotam put together?


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    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    I don't think I ever knew that was Smokey's voice, though I never really played that album much. I know a lot of fans like the album [[and I think it was Mary's favorite) but I found it dull and too much "sameness" in the song selection.
    Me too. I thought it was a bland and boring album. It was a substantial drop in quality afrer the general excellence of the previous three efforts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Me too. I thought it was a bland and boring album. It was a substantial drop in quality afrer the general excellence of the previous three efforts.
    see i see it as the opposite. i found the album clean, light and effervescent. an enjoyable switch after the large Frank productions. I also appreciated the more intricate vocal work. of course some of that is thanks to the Andantes. even though they were added, it does still sound like MJC did quite a bit of the harmonies and material. So from a "group" perspective, i think this is a solid album. the vocal interplay, shared leads, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomatoTom123 View Post
    OMG, can people stop the bitching about "Time And Love", one of my absolute SUPREME favourites!

    P.S. I actually quite like the song, both versions in fact [[Diana / The Supremes)
    I actually don't hate it Tom. I just feel the cut is out of place on the Touch album. But it's never been a fav of mine even on it's own. Surprisingly, while I was so disappointed to see a version by Diana, and with the exact same backing track, as a bonus track on the debut cd [[I would've rather have had a song I had never heard before), I really enjoyed it. So if I were going to choose one version over the other, it would be Diana's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    see i see it as the opposite. i found the album clean, light and effervescent. an enjoyable switch after the large Frank productions. I also appreciated the more intricate vocal work. of course some of that is thanks to the Andantes. even though they were added, it does still sound like MJC did quite a bit of the harmonies and material. So from a "group" perspective, i think this is a solid album. the vocal interplay, shared leads, etc.
    Agreed. It was a nice artistic change from what came before, without deviating radically from the blueprint, such as what happened with the JW album.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I actually don't hate it Tom. I just feel the cut is out of place on the Touch album. But it's never been a fav of mine even on it's own. Surprisingly, while I was so disappointed to see a version by Diana, and with the exact same backing track, as a bonus track on the debut cd [[I would've rather have had a song I had never heard before), I really enjoyed it. So if I were going to choose one version over the other, it would be Diana's.
    T&L has never been a song i've found very enjoyable. again, i find the lyrics too hokey. but that's just my person opinion

    i do agree that, from a sound and style standpoint, it's completely out of place on Touch. To do from the reverence and delicacy of Love It Came To Me This Time to the onslaught of Time And Love is glaring.

    It might have fit better on New Ways. at least there the productions were massive

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Agreed. It was a nice artistic change from what came before, without deviating radically from the blueprint, such as what happened with the JW album.
    exactly. with the JW tapes, they might as well just handed them to jean saying "hey we know we've dicked around enough with this Supremes thing to pretty much ruin any major future success. and so you'll probably be leaving sooner rather than later, so take these as a parting gift and just use as part of your solo career"
    lolol

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    The WEBB LP could have been a masterpiece... but JW used the Supremes to showcase his less known compositions.....5.30 Plane is a Terrell masterpiece, although it seems she is backed by an entire choir...I don't mind I Guess I'll Miss The Man being on the LP...it was the latest single and should have been the final song, tagged as a bonus cut. The rest of he LP should have been all Webb compositions and included at least 5 or 6 of his more familiar songs...and he should have limited ALL vocals to just the group

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    Quote Originally Posted by gman View Post
    The WEBB LP could have been a masterpiece... but JW used the Supremes to showcase his less known compositions.....5.30 Plane is a Terrell masterpiece, although it seems she is backed by an entire choir...I don't mind I Guess I'll Miss The Man being on the LP...it was the latest single and should have been the final song, tagged as a bonus cut. The rest of he LP should have been all Webb compositions and included at least 5 or 6 of his more familiar songs...and he should have limited ALL vocals to just the group
    I agree. He really messed things up when he added all those background singers to some of the cuts.

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Soulful Detroit is a free service that relies on revenue from ad display [regrettably] and donations. We notice that you are using an ad-blocking program that prevents us from earning revenue during your visit.
Ads are REMOVED for Members who donate to Soulful Detroit. [You must be logged in for ads to disappear]
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