[REMOVE ADS]




Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 75
  1. #1

    Reflections ....of what could have been


  2. #2
    yes, I believe I have this whole concert on DVD.

  3. #3
    Had they ditched the dancers and reduced the price of tickets to something a little less scary, the result might have been very different.
    I never considered this tour to be one for the fans. Bottom line is it was done to make as much money as possible. All the bickering between Diana and Mary only infused the proceedings with a negative aura regardless of the outcome
    Diana would have been wise to have left well alone.

  4. #4
    I agree.

    When I saw the beginning of this, it makes you realize why fans and why Mary would have wanted something like this with Diana, Mary and Cindy. It would have been exciting and it is sad that it will never be.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    667
    Some of the ugliest costumes and wigs of any Ross show ever.

    That green dress with a square neckline is horrible, as were the toooooo tight in the crotch pant suits. They were disgusting to this gay mans eyes.

  6. #6
    The full length songs were good; too bad we never got more than this. Even if they could recruit Scherrie or Jean, they'll never recruit Diana.

  7. #7
    Think the show could have done well. Not sure who cancelled what .the promoters said DR cancelled while she claimed they did.
    I like most of the gowns and arrangements.
    Didn't get the Xtra singers???? Dancers?? Why.
    Never saw the original line up.this was my last n only chance. Severly disappointed they both let us down. Just ticks me. Should have been 3 sets with Supremes and 1 with her new songs. Now will never happen.
    Cindy got screwed

  8. #8
    In retrospect, it could have been done in many ways. Even if it had been Mary and Cindy with Diana, it might have been too expensive. The real benefit in having it happen would have been to Mary and Cindy because Diana has the fortune already.

  9. #9
    Perhaps Diana could tour with two members of the Andantes. It would be a Supremes reunion of sorts.

  10. #10
    Others groups including Police....Van Halen...Bruce Springsteen n @ E Street Band all have had reunions and all got paid millions.
    Imo. It has to do more...imo...with men or women.....men got paid ...the woman did not.
    The promoters should have stepped up and paid them. Of course this was 20 years ago before the Me2 movement.
    I think maybe it would be different now.
    But why didn't DR get involved and say make it happen. But in a way she did when she was willing to double her salary. Then MW declined the offer.
    Bottom line is respect....on both sides

  11. #11
    I have it on DVD.good show

  12. #12
    Mary accepted Diana’s doubling but was told “the train had left the station.”

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    Mary accepted Diana’s doubling but was told “the train had left the station.”
    Exactly and thank you for reminding the others of that fact Luke.

  14. #14
    Was glad I had the opportunity to see the show - Lynda and Scherrie are dynamite artists with beautiful voices. Truth be told die hard fans wanted Mary and Cindy on that stage with Diana one last time but let's be honest with all the BS that went on it would not have turned out well. Diana and Mary would have been at each other's throat throughout the whole tour and then another book would have come out.

    I have the loveliest memory of 3 beautiful ladies on stage one last time singing my favorite songs and I loved it. It was not the original
    three but then it could never be the original three without Flo.

    To say it was not about money at first and then in 2019 to say its up to Diana makes me just shake my head. In th words of Flo Ballard......"You don't really know where you stand with Mary."

  15. #15
    I so dislike seeing RTL brought up in any way , shape or form because it is so polarizing. There is no fault here, perhaps the promoters who didn't realize what could have been if things had been done properly. I think all of these singers are beyond this. Yes, the prices were too much. From what was on stage here, there was no feeling of a group or any intimacy and the garish spectacle with dancers, etc. took away from the significance of the event. I am just pleased that Mary Wilson, Diana Ross, Scherrie Payne and Susaye Greene are all out there still performing so wonderfully and that Jean Terrell and Lynda Laurence have settled into their private lives and that Cindy Birdsong is still with us. Lots of things should have been in life, the key to happiness is enjoying what we do have.

  16. #16
    Just wanted to mention ...I believe promoters settled with Diana first as a solo but then asked her to bring on the Supremes. She agreed to do so.
    Ticket prices were a reflection of a charity I thought but no more expensive than the last Adele or Madonna tours which were outrageous

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    Mary accepted Diana’s doubling but was told “the train had left the station.”
    You repeat Marv2s talking points real good. Well done Luke. Your the Faux News to Marvs Trump. Hehehehehehehehehehe.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    Mary accepted Diana’s doubling but was told “the train had left the station.”
    They couldn’t wait forever for Mary to accept the offer. That wouldn’t have been fair to Scherrie and Lynda. Mary took her sweet ass time to accept. And by the time she decided to accept Scherrie and Lynda had already accepted their offer. Like the old saying goes. “You snooze you lose”.
    Last edited by vgalindo; 10-05-2019 at 08:26 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by vgalindo View Post
    They couldn’t wait forever for Mary to accept the offer. That wouldn’t have been fair to Sherrie and Lynda. Mary took her sweet ass time to accept. And by the time she decided to accept Sherrie and Lynda had already accepted their offer. Like the old saying goes. “You snooze you lose”.
    Looks like the Promoters, Diane, Scherrie and Lynda lost, because their tour got cancelled in a VERY public way!

  20. #20
    Funny tho...Diana ..scherrie and Lynda got paid...Mary didn't.
    Surprised the show didn't continue.looked sold out to me

  21. #21
    The tour got canceled ...... Scherrie and Lynda got paid !!!

  22. #22
    Everyone on here get over it . 19 years have passed and the same people are bitching over it. No one involved is an innocent victim here.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Perhaps Diana could tour with two members of the Andantes. It would be a Supremes reunion of sorts.
    Wicked wicked but true

  24. #24
    I'm over it but disappointed I didn't get to see it

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    Others groups including Police....Van Halen...Bruce Springsteen n @ E Street Band all have had reunions and all got paid millions.
    Imo. It has to do more...imo...with men or women.....men got paid ...the woman did not.
    The promoters should have stepped up and paid them. Of course this was 20 years ago before the Me2 movement.
    I think maybe it would be different now.
    But why didn't DR get involved and say make it happen. But in a way she did when she was willing to double her salary. Then MW declined the offer.
    Bottom line is respect....on both sides
    I think that many of the Supremes' male fans refuse- yes, refuse- to acknowledge the role that sexism has played in the career of the Supremes as a group and as soloists. From the obvious difference in the way Gordy dealt with his female acts vs his male acts, to the way a woman like Diana Ross is described via her diva antics to the way a man like David Ruffin is described via his diva antics.

    Having said that, I'm not sure if sexism was an issue with RTL. I would argue that a reunion of the Police, Van Halen, Bruce and E Street would generate tons of money in ticket sales and even merchandise and thus would justify paying all the participants what they are worth and more. The popularity of these kinds of bands seem to surpass that of the Supremes as the years go on, and I think there are a number of reasons for that. And lets be honest, Bruce Springsteen could fart tickets to sell out an arena, so that's easy money right there.

    The gold of reuniting the Supremes is Diana Ross because not only was she the lead singer on the majority of hits, but she also went on to solo superstardom. But at the time of RTL Diana had not done anything musically significant in more than 15 years, which is a lifetime in the industry. Her name wasn't the draw it once had been. Couple that with the fact that neither Mary nor Cindy had done anything musically significant since they were actual Supremes (unless you count Mary's first book which would be literary significant but it was "about" music, so...) and you have a tour that I think was easy to project success, but not rock band success.

    If Ross, as Mary has stated, stood to make 15 to 20 million dollars, I think offering Mary four million as an original and Cindy half of that as a replacement would've been pretty fair from the jump. Especially considering that Diana was also investing her own money into the tour and neither Mary nor Cindy were being asked to pony up a dime. There is no way the money should've been distributed equally. If I were in charge of compensating the members of a J5 reunion (during Michael's lifetime) there aint a chance in hell that I'm paying Tito the same amount as Michael, even if Michael weren't investing a dime.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    Funny tho...Diana ..scherrie and Lynda got paid...Mary didn't.
    Surprised the show didn't continue.looked sold out to me
    I think many of the played shows were sold out or close to it. It was some of the ones down the line that apparently were slow to sale, the promoters got spooked and the tour was yanked. My question is was this tour supposed to have a European leg? If not, that was stupid. If so, cancelling that portion was stupid. No doubt RTL would've done big business in Europe.

  27. #27
    I remember MW stated a European tour was on the table...a live cd....a DVD of the tour if......but ...things changed as the tour went along

  28. #28
    Any clips of them performing Heartaches or In n Out of Love

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I think many of the played shows were sold out or close to it. It was some of the ones down the line that apparently were slow to sale, the promoters got spooked and the tour was yanked. My question is was this tour supposed to have a European leg? If not, that was stupid. If so, cancelling that portion was stupid. No doubt RTL would've done big business in Europe.
    A UK tour was already in the planning stages when the tour was cancelled. Not sure if any other European venues had been booked, but at least 6 UK venues had been sounded out.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I think that many of the Supremes' male fans refuse- yes, refuse- to acknowledge the role that sexism has played in the career of the Supremes as a group and as soloists. From the obvious difference in the way Gordy dealt with his female acts vs his male acts, to the way a woman like Diana Ross is described via her diva antics to the way a man like David Ruffin is described via his diva antics.

    Having said that, I'm not sure if sexism was an issue with RTL. I would argue that a reunion of the Police, Van Halen, Bruce and E Street would generate tons of money in ticket sales and even merchandise and thus would justify paying all the participants what they are worth and more. The popularity of these kinds of bands seem to surpass that of the Supremes as the years go on, and I think there are a number of reasons for that. And lets be honest, Bruce Springsteen could fart tickets to sell out an arena, so that's easy money right there.

    The gold of reuniting the Supremes is Diana Ross because not only was she the lead singer on the majority of hits, but she also went on to solo superstardom. But at the time of RTL Diana had not done anything musically significant in more than 15 years, which is a lifetime in the industry. Her name wasn't the draw it once had been. Couple that with the fact that neither Mary nor Cindy had done anything musically significant since they were actual Supremes (unless you count Mary's first book which would be literary significant but it was "about" music, so...) and you have a tour that I think was easy to project success, but not rock band success.

    If Ross, as Mary has stated, stood to make 15 to 20 million dollars, I think offering Mary four million as an original and Cindy half of that as a replacement would've been pretty fair from the jump. Especially considering that Diana was also investing her own money into the tour and neither Mary nor Cindy were being asked to pony up a dime. There is no way the money should've been distributed equally. If I were in charge of compensating the members of a J5 reunion (during Michael's lifetime) there aint a chance in hell that I'm paying Tito the same amount as Michael, even if Michael weren't investing a dime.
    Your J5 analogy is spot on. The finger can be pointed in any direction and be partially on target.

    I do not believe Diana wanted to be with/around Mary, but was interested in a reunion tour. In fact, I think she dreaded it which might explain why it did take her a long time to call Mary. It makes sense that, there wasn’t any point in talking to Mary if she couldn’t get a deal with the promoters. Once she got the promoters on board, And Cindy was already on board, Diana had to call Mary and we all know that I didn’t go very well. I can understand how Mary felt that she should’ve been involved in the planning, and I can understand that diana was hoping to get this tour done with this little interaction with Mary as possible as I doubt very much she had gotten past mary‘s books and all the insults Mary hurled towards Diana promoting the book. And I don’t blame her I’d feel the same way. I assume Diana felt that she would put the tour together without any input from mary and Cindy and that way she could avoid having to have any extraneous conversations with Mary. This also extended into the negotiations for salaries. It is my believe that Diana, fearful from having any kind of money changed hands with Mary and the resulting book that could come from that, thought it best that they each negotiate their own deals. I don’t think that it crossed her mind that Mary would be unhappy with her deal as that is exactly what Diana was trying to avoid by not being involved. Cindy was happy with her money. So in many ways it was doomed from the start because I’m certain Diana had not forgiven Mary for any of it, and Mary, unless she’s had a few, refuses to acknowledge she could understand why diana would be upset with her at all……

    The numbers that Mary constantly quoted back in the day like 15 to 20,000,000 for Diana was never ever ever Diana salary…… It was the Per Show nut of 500k. Dianas guarantee had nothing to do with that figure, and neither did the money you’re marked for profits for the promoter. After Diana‘s guarantee was paid, and the promoter was paid, diana got a huge percentage of the balance… Just as she does now. It would be literally impossible, not just improbable, to give diana ross $500,000 off the top of each show, and then recoup the Nut, because in all likelihood a few to many shows might not generate that kind of money leaving nothing for the promoters and the local promoters. Things just aren’t done that way…… Especially for at tour like this because there was no way to know how the public would react. It’s possible that in this day and age someone like Beyoncé or Michael could get such a guarantee because no matter what they would sell out.

    If the tour had gone on as planned with Mary and Cindy, and if everyone got along well, the next contracts might have been more favorable to them as new deals would have to be struck for Europe and the rest of the world plus, if successful, I return to the United States for shows in additional markets and repeats in cities that did particularly well the first time. With a DVD sales, record sales, television rights, there was the potential for a lots and lots and lots of extra money to be paid to each of them.

    Ultimately, I blame Mary the most because she knows diana ross well enough to expect her to be pissed off, and then running to the press about the amount of money they’re being offered which is pretty much unprecedented, I’m sure Diana was thinking here we go again, Got her a $4 million offer with an expiration date, Mary, resenting the expiration date, waited until a few days afterwards to accept and the train had left the station.
    I think if Mary tried to make amends with her, things might have played out differently.

    It it was just a mess to begin with.

  31. #31
    It should have happened. Mary shouldn't have delayed. Diana shouldn't have even bothered with the other girls.

    With Mary & Cindy, the tour would have had so much more publicity - 'together for the first time in 30 years' - and I'm sure Motown would have been interested in putting out a new single, if not an album. A UK/European tour would have almost certainly followed the US dates. A proper DVD release and perhaps a live album too. All the girls with more coin.

    The clips I've seen of the RTL show look and sound horrible. I'm glad it never made it downunder.

    And if it had have gone ahead with Mary, 'Return to Love - the inside story' would almost certainly have been her next book lol

  32. #32
    I saw it in Toronto and the stadium was packed..full house. But the tickets were way over priced. I sat up in the nose bleeds and still payed almost $200 per ticket. There was a family of 5 in front of me. That's a pretty die hard fan to bring his kids to share his youth.
    I think the who and why is only an issue to a small group of people. It's the songs, the memories, and THE VOICE that made the memories.

  33. #33
    there was some talk once the "Supremes reunion" idea was settled on that they would involve ALL of the supremes. I'm trying to remember the details. but some problems arouse i believe when the promoters decided they wanted the other women to audition. what i heard was Jean and susaye refused. not sure when or even if this occurred. and when in the timeline with the diana/mary fiasco it fell

  34. #34
    i believe most of the very large cities had either sold out or very nearly sold out. but it was the mid-sized markets that saw soft sales.

  35. #35
    As a fan, the "all Supremes" idea would have been great for me but I would have preferred Diana Mary Cindy for a portion of the show, I guess near the end.

    But price is a huge issue and most of the public wouldn't care much who it was as long as Diana sang lead and the price wasn't a rip.

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
    Your J5 analogy is spot on. The finger can be pointed in any direction and be partially on target.

    I do not believe Diana wanted to be with/around Mary, but was interested in a reunion tour. In fact, I think she dreaded it which might explain why it did take her a long time to call Mary. It makes sense that, there wasn’t any point in talking to Mary if she couldn’t get a deal with the promoters. Once she got the promoters on board, And Cindy was already on board, Diana had to call Mary and we all know that I didn’t go very well. I can understand how Mary felt that she should’ve been involved in the planning, and I can understand that diana was hoping to get this tour done with this little interaction with Mary as possible as I doubt very much she had gotten past mary‘s books and all the insults Mary hurled towards Diana promoting the book. And I don’t blame her I’d feel the same way. I assume Diana felt that she would put the tour together without any input from mary and Cindy and that way she could avoid having to have any extraneous conversations with Mary. This also extended into the negotiations for salaries. It is my believe that Diana, fearful from having any kind of money changed hands with Mary and the resulting book that could come from that, thought it best that they each negotiate their own deals. I don’t think that it crossed her mind that Mary would be unhappy with her deal as that is exactly what Diana was trying to avoid by not being involved. Cindy was happy with her money. So in many ways it was doomed from the start because I’m certain Diana had not forgiven Mary for any of it, and Mary, unless she’s had a few, refuses to acknowledge she could understand why diana would be upset with her at all……

    The numbers that Mary constantly quoted back in the day like 15 to 20,000,000 for Diana was never ever ever Diana salary…… It was the Per Show nut of 500k. Dianas guarantee had nothing to do with that figure, and neither did the money you’re marked for profits for the promoter. After Diana‘s guarantee was paid, and the promoter was paid, diana got a huge percentage of the balance… Just as she does now. It would be literally impossible, not just improbable, to give diana ross $500,000 off the top of each show, and then recoup the Nut, because in all likelihood a few to many shows might not generate that kind of money leaving nothing for the promoters and the local promoters. Things just aren’t done that way…… Especially for at tour like this because there was no way to know how the public would react. It’s possible that in this day and age someone like Beyoncé or Michael could get such a guarantee because no matter what they would sell out.

    If the tour had gone on as planned with Mary and Cindy, and if everyone got along well, the next contracts might have been more favorable to them as new deals would have to be struck for Europe and the rest of the world plus, if successful, I return to the United States for shows in additional markets and repeats in cities that did particularly well the first time. With a DVD sales, record sales, television rights, there was the potential for a lots and lots and lots of extra money to be paid to each of them.

    Ultimately, I blame Mary the most because she knows diana ross well enough to expect her to be pissed off, and then running to the press about the amount of money they’re being offered which is pretty much unprecedented, I’m sure Diana was thinking here we go again, Got her a $4 million offer with an expiration date, Mary, resenting the expiration date, waited until a few days afterwards to accept and the train had left the station.
    I think if Mary tried to make amends with her, things might have played out differently.

    It it was just a mess to begin with.
    Very well said ............................

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post

    But price is a huge issue and most of the public wouldn't care much who it was as long as Diana sang lead and the price wasn't a rip.
    Well part of the problem was the underestimation by the promoters and Diana herself of the public's desire to see Mary and Cindy alongside Diana. To deny that replacing them with "unknown" Supremes wasn't a component of what killed the tour would be inaccurate. But it's interesting to ponder the effect of the ticket prices. If Sup Fan's info about large cities selling out vs smaller markets not doing as well is correct, it makes a lot of sense.

  38. #38
    ^
    It all points to the fact that had the ticket prices been a little more pocket friendly the tour would have most likely continued on it's merry way.....With or without M & C.

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    ^
    It all points to the fact that had the ticket prices been a little more pocket friendly the tour would have most likely continued on it's merry way.....With or without M & C.
    I disagree. The public knew that Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong were not going to be on that tour even before going through the process of checking ticket prices.

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    I disagree. The public knew that Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong were not going to be on that tour even before going through the process of checking ticket prices.
    Putting dedicated fans aside, i think for the majority of joe public, it was enough to see the headline Diana Ross & Supremes. The fact that the show sold out in many of the larger arenas is testament to this. I love Mary, but i really don't think her non participation is the reason the tour was pulled......I'm sorry marv, but i really don't.

  41. #41
    I think the big problems were 1) ticket price and 2) the very public fight between D and M.

    If they'd gone forward with the original idea of DMC reuniting, PERHAPS they could have justified the sky-high tickets. I remember being in houston and being dumbfounded that the prime seats were about $250. insane!! even for a DMC reunion. If that was what was necessary to cover the costs of this effort than the production had gotten way out of control. yes they wanted to do a spectacle but they were pricing themselves way out of the public's appetite

    Second once things broke off with mary, she was EVERYWHERE airing her grievances. It just basically killed the idea in the gen pop minds who frankly probably didn't even know the sups carried on without Diana back in the 70s. or had long since forgetten. Then you had media idiots wrongly labeling Scherrie and Lynda as fake supremes. cruel!!!

    Had diana just gone on with the original vision of simply reformating her own solo show to simply include a larger section of Supremes songs, done in full and more faithful to the original productions, we could have been spared this nightmare

  42. #42
    This RTL topic comes up frequently. I attended the Atlanta concert which I remember the venue was not sold out; however, it was quite full. The arrangements and the orchestra/ band were great (I sat, by chance, beside the conductor's wife.) My only gripe was that there were background singers for the three ladies which took away from the group sound. Here is a photo (you can see my shadow as I am holding up the camera) of the newspaper ad which I was able to put into a poster frame. One thing I immediately noticed about the graphic...although one can see clearly that it is Diana Ross, there is some ambiguity (especially for the casual fans) as if the other 2 ladies are Cindy and Mary. And yes, we know it is Lynda and Sherrie (sp); however, I believe the casual viewer would think it was Cindy and Mary. Name:  TpBI73ZDTE2vdWs9V8aOXg_thumb_1ec9.jpg
Views: 170
Size:  61.4 KB
    Last edited by jobucats; 10-08-2019 at 10:48 AM.

  43. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    ^
    It all points to the fact that had the ticket prices been a little more pocket friendly the tour would have most likely continued on it's merry way.....With or without M & C.
    I believe this. But I also believe that the public would've ultimately paid the as is ticket prices for the original Diana Ross and the Supremes, even if begrudgingly. Without Mary and Cindy, RTL for the general public was another Diana Ross concert. How well did her last tour (previous to RTL) in the US do in comparison? I can't imagine that it got the kind of PR that RTL did, so the incentive for seeing RTL for the average person was to see Diana and two of the Supremes she sang with as a member of the group. Mary in particular was more valuable to the equation than the promoters and Diana wanted to admit.

  44. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    I think the big problems were 1) ticket price and 2) the very public fight between D and M.

    Second once things broke off with mary, she was EVERYWHERE airing her grievances. It just basically killed the idea in the gen pop minds
    Yes, Mary went crying to anyone who would listen that she was being done wrong again. So once again the Supremes were being talked about because of something negative. I once theorized that part of the reason Mary never made it as a successful solo recording artist is because she could never see the big picture. There was no constant knock on record label doors and she was always reverting back to the Supremes act, which would not allow her to be seen as simply Mary Wilson, songstress. Her approach to RTL seems like it was more of a refusal to see the big picture. Not only could she have made four million dollars for a couple months worth of work, but she almost assuredly stood to have at least two solo spots in the show and thus exposed the great voice that had developed since her time as a Supreme to be showcased in front crowds far larger than what she normally performed in front of, then or since. She could've won herself a new legion of fans, maybe even got a real record deal out of it. Who knows?

    But even if she decided that the principle of the matter (whatever she thought the "principle" was) was more important than the money and opportunities, why not tell the public "we couldn't reach an agreement on the business aspect of the tour, but I wish Diana well" and move on? Instead it was "They tried to cheat me and relegate me to background singer. It was Diana Ross and the Supremes all over again. Now the train has left the station and Diana wants me on welfare and dead like Florence" on every show that would have her on. Give me a break.

  45. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by jobucats View Post
    This RTL topic comes up frequently. I attended the Atlanta concert which I remember the venue was not sold out; however, it was quite full. The arrangements and the orchestra/ band were great (I sat, by chance, beside the conductor's wife.) My only gripe was that there were background singers for the three ladies which took away from the group sound. Here is a photo (you can see my shadow as I am holding up the camera) of the newspaper ad which I was able to put into a poster frame. One thing I immediately noticed about the graphic...although one can see clearly that it is Diana Ross, there is some ambiguity (especially for the casual fans) as if the other 2 ladies are Cindy and Mary. And yes, we know it is Lynda and Sherrie (sp); however, I believe the casual viewer would think it was Cindy and Mary.
    That photo does look a bit ambiguous. Especially Lynda's photo, which looks quite a bit like Mary in the edit.

  46. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Yes, Mary went crying to anyone who would listen that she was being done wrong again. So once again the Supremes were being talked about because of something negative. I once theorized that part of the reason Mary never made it as a successful solo recording artist is because she could never see the big picture. There was no constant knock on record label doors and she was always reverting back to the Supremes act, which would not allow her to be seen as simply Mary Wilson, songstress. Her approach to RTL seems like it was more of a refusal to see the big picture. Not only could she have made four million dollars for a couple months worth of work, but she almost assuredly stood to have at least two solo spots in the show and thus exposed the great voice that had developed since her time as a Supreme to be showcased in front crowds far larger than what she normally performed in front of, then or since. She could've won herself a new legion of fans, maybe even got a real record deal out of it. Who knows?

    But even if she decided that the principle of the matter (whatever she thought the "principle" was) was more important than the money and opportunities, why not tell the public "we couldn't reach an agreement on the business aspect of the tour, but I wish Diana well" and move on? Instead it was "They tried to cheat me and relegate me to background singer. It was Diana Ross and the Supremes all over again. Now the train has left the station and Diana wants me on welfare and dead like Florence" on every show that would have her on. Give me a break.
    i agree - with most of your assessment lol xoxox love ya Ran

    from what i've pieced together, Mary's primary complaint was that as the defacto leader of the Supremes legacy, if a reunion tour was to be planned she should have some sort of seat at the table to help guide and determine the approach, direction and strategy. she should not simply be told "your call time is XX:XX and be on time." she should have helped determine the content for the show, the gowns, staging decisions, etc. It sounds (obviously i wasn't there) like she was being excluded from that and i do agree given her years of dedication to the group, she should have been given the appropriate respect

    now how she handled the whole thing was utterly non-supreme. you're absolutely right that her actions in the media simply degraded the entire image of the Supremes. and even if everything she said was right. there's something called the High Road and she most certainly did not take it

    as for business decision, i think it's a very safe statement to make that Mary has notoriously NOT made wise business decisions and has often failed to see the big picture.
    *60s - she was more content to simply be a background singer and party than really get down to work and commit herself to a career as an entertainer. she just rode the ride called the Supremes and collected fame and money
    *failed to really push the sups into new and fresh directions in the 70s. not to mention her notoriously poor working relationships with most of the 70s supremes
    *pedro - nothing more needs to be said
    *failing to see the big picture that, although a talented entertainer and singer, she is not a pop vocalist. she should have worked to maintain the viability of the Supremes as an ongoing institution like Otis did with the Temps. sure she would still be spotlighted as the leader, original member and occasional lead singer. but pop sounds dictate a different voice from hers. she tried to launch her solo career and should have stayed put

  47. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i agree - with most of your assessment lol xoxox love ya Ran

    from what i've pieced together, Mary's primary complaint was that as the defacto leader of the Supremes legacy, if a reunion tour was to be planned she should have some sort of seat at the table to help guide and determine the approach, direction and strategy. she should not simply be told "your call time is XX:XX and be on time." she should have helped determine the content for the show, the gowns, staging decisions, etc. It sounds (obviously i wasn't there) like she was being excluded from that and i do agree given her years of dedication to the group, she should have been given the appropriate respect

    now how she handled the whole thing was utterly non-supreme. you're absolutely right that her actions in the media simply degraded the entire image of the Supremes. and even if everything she said was right. there's something called the High Road and she most certainly did not take it
    Nail on head post. I think also Diana unwittingly cast herself in the role of Evillene, by commenting "All she had to do was show up"........I mean really!!!
    This topic is a well trodden road, but this thread has included some interesting and discerning posts.
    I guess we will all have to wait for that book before knowing Diana's final thoughts on the subject.

  48. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Putting dedicated fans aside, i think for the majority of joe public, it was enough to see the headline Diana Ross & Supremes. The fact that the show sold out in many of the larger arenas is testament to this. I love Mary, but i really don't think her non participation is the reason the tour was pulled......I'm sorry marv, but i really don't.
    Ollie, it did not sell out anywhere not even in Detroit. It was disputed as to whether on not MSG sold out and it did not! It was pretty full, not a sell out. In Columbus, Ohio, for example, only 3,000 of 19,000 seats were sold. IF this tour were making money, I can promise you, it would not have gotten cancelled. You can say what you want, but the facts remain, that without Mary and Cindy, the tour failed.
    Last edited by marv2; 10-08-2019 at 04:59 PM.

  49. #49
    but as always there's two sides to every story I know this topic has been talked about to death. so long as participants can behave themselves and discuss this as adults, i'm always happy to revisit this or any Sups topic. there have been times i've actually adjusted my opinion on thoughts on things based on fan dialog.

    let's say you work damn hard at your job - long hours, lots of work and you earn about $1M annually. then someone offered you 4x that and for only a few months. from a financial perspective isn't that a good offer? mary works her butt off touring and performing. And for her solo shows, she has to manage and organize things. here someone was saying, we'll take care of the hard work and logistics.

    and as for involving Mary in the planning, i have no idea to what stage plans were made when they approached Mary. My guess (and it's just a guess) is that the initial logistics with the promoters were being worked out. how many cities, size of arenas and theaters, tour operations, etc. Frankly I doubt much of that would really be in mary's purview anyway. My take on it is that she wanted to be part of the decisions of how the supremes would be portrayed. That seems like planning that would come after the tour was finalized. what would be the lineup, how would they discuss Flo's role exit and death? what solos mary would have, how diana and mary would share the stage, etc. I doubt the promoters would be that involved and that once Mary signed with the promoters, she and diana would be free to plan specifics.

  50. #50

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

[REMOVE ADS]

Ralph Terrana
MODERATOR

Welcome to Soulful Detroit! Kindly Consider Turning Off Your Ad BlockingX
Soulful Detroit is a free service that relies on revenue from ad display [regrettably] and donations. We notice that you are using an ad-blocking program that prevents us from earning revenue during your visit.
Ads are REMOVED for Members who donate to Soulful Detroit. [You must be logged in for ads to disappear]
DONATE HERE »
And have Ads removed.