Reflections ....of what could have been

[franjoy56]

The full length songs were good; too bad we never got more than this. Even if they could recruit Scherrie or Jean, they'll never recruit Diana.

Jean would never have signed up for this tour she was a lead singer.

[jobeterob]

Jean would never have signed up for this tour she was a lead singer.

Yes they all have their opinions of who they’ll appear with I guess; too bad

[marv2]

Jean would never have signed up for this tour she was a lead singer.

They asked Jean for an audition tape [[OMG!), her response? "There's a tape of me out there.......go find it!" LOL!!!!

[marv2]

but as always there's two sides to every story I know this topic has been talked about to death. so long as participants can behave themselves and discuss this as adults, i'm always happy to revisit this or any Sups topic. there have been times i've actually adjusted my opinion on thoughts on things based on fan dialog.

let's say you work damn hard at your job - long hours, lots of work and you earn about $1M annually. then someone offered you 4x that and for only a few months. from a financial perspective isn't that a good offer? mary works her butt off touring and performing. And for her solo shows, she has to manage and organize things. here someone was saying, we'll take care of the hard work and logistics.

and as for involving Mary in the planning, i have no idea to what stage plans were made when they approached Mary. My guess [[and it's just a guess) is that the initial logistics with the promoters were being worked out. how many cities, size of arenas and theaters, tour operations, etc. Frankly I doubt much of that would really be in mary's purview anyway. My take on it is that she wanted to be part of the decisions of how the supremes would be portrayed. That seems like planning that would come after the tour was finalized. what would be the lineup, how would they discuss Flo's role exit and death? what solos mary would have, how diana and mary would share the stage, etc. I doubt the promoters would be that involved and that once Mary signed with the promoters, she and diana would be free to plan specifics.

Mary wasn't concerned about how many cities, size of arenas and theaters, tour operations, etc. Stop it! LOL! She has said that they had put the whole tour together without any input from her. She would have like to have had some involvement in the set list, stage costumes, a solo spot, how it was advertised and promoted, the charities to benefit from it, etc. This was understandable since she was a founding member and have been a solo artists for 30 years by that time. She had experience in putting together a show. I heard that the promoters were extremely rude to both she and Cindy. They went and got Berry to negotiate on their behalf and the promoters shut him down as well. They even went so far as to claim that they didn't even know who Mary Wilson was, yet they were going to invest millions in a reunion of her own group and her legacy! How stupid of them. Who in their right minds are going to do something like invest millions into something and not know or understand what the key ingredients were. So they got what they got! A big, fat flop!

[vgalindo]

Ollie, it did not sell out anywhere not even in Detroit. It was disputed as to whether on not MSG sold out and it did not! It was pretty full, not a sell out. In Columbus, Ohio, for example, only 3,000 of 19,000 seats were sold. IF this tour were making money, I can promise you, it would not have gotten cancelled. You can say what you want, but the facts remain, that without Mary and Cindy, the tour failed.

Well Mr. No it all. The New York Times says it was sold out. But I guess you got better contacts than the New York Times. Lol

https://www.nytimes.com/2000/07/08/a...e-of-love.html

[jobeterob]

As Richard Pryor said, “beware of Marv’s making promises and bearing gifts....,for they shall turn into the sales figures of Red Hot!!”

[Roberta75]

Well Mr. No it all. The New York Times says it was sold out. But I guess you got better contacts than the New York Times. Lol

https://www.nytimes.com/2000/07/08/a...e-of-love.html

Marv2s as good as Trump with his alternative facts. Hehehehehehehhehe

[Ollie9]

All Over but the Shouting

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...281-story.html

An interesting article. I must admit i was not aware that tickets were selling that badly. I think it was rather optimistic of Mary and Cindy to state they were willing to start negotiations from scratch lol.
Regardless of how you dress it up ie this is how business is usually done, it must have been difficult for Mary to hear from other sources that Diana was negotiating for a Supremes reunion tour when she herself had worked so hard to keep the Supremes flame alive. Then to finally get a call many months later. All of this following the way they were treated at Motown 25. ie "The girls will be happy with a medley", which naturally caused unnecessary resentments at the time.
I'm not saying Mary is a saint, but to some degree you have see her point of view
I would like to think Diana was ill advised, one of the reasons i look forward to a new book sometime soon.

[floyjoy678]

What it comes down to and always came down to was lack of communication between Mary and Diana. They've had horrible communication skills going back to the Supremes. Maybe Mary should have spoken up at Motown 25 and said No I'm not okay with just doing Someday. Maybe Diana should have told Mary she wasn't okay with her tell all book herself. Maybe Mary should have called Diana when the reunion rumors started instead of waiting around for her. Flo didnt have that problem with Diana, I always believe if she lived we'd probably have a few successful reunions.

[sup_fan]

What it comes down to and always came down to was lack of communication between Mary and Diana. They've had horrible communication skills going back to the Supremes. Maybe Mary should have spoken up at Motown 25 and said No I'm not okay with just doing Someday. Maybe Diana should have told Mary she wasn't okay with her tell all book herself. Maybe Mary should have called Diana when the reunion rumors started instead of waiting around for her. Flo didnt have that problem with Diana, I always believe if she lived we'd probably have a few successful reunions.

very good point. they seemed locked in this destructive behavior since their youth. would never change.

[sup_fan]

Mary wasn't concerned about how many cities, size of arenas and theaters, tour operations, etc. Stop it! LOL! She has said that they had put the whole tour together without any input from her. She would have like to have had some involvement in the set list, stage costumes, a solo spot, how it was advertised and promoted, the charities to benefit from it, etc. This was understandable since she was a founding member and have been a solo artists for 30 years by that time. She had experience in putting together a show. I heard that the promoters were extremely rude to both she and Cindy. They went and got Berry to negotiate on their behalf and the promoters shut him down as well. They even went so far as to claim that they didn't even know who Mary Wilson was, yet they were going to invest millions in a reunion of her own group and her legacy! How stupid of them. Who in their right minds are going to do something like invest millions into something and not know or understand what the key ingredients were. So they got what they got! A big, fat flop!

that's pretty much what i was saying earlier. Sure there might have been some operational issues that the promoters would have working on [[logistics and all) that Mary prob wouldn't have needed to be involved in. but i completely agree. when it came to HOW the show would be presented, the content, the promotion, etc. she should have been involved.

but you say how in their right mind would invest millions in a flop of an idea?

so who in their right mind willingly turns down 4x their annual earnings for doing a fraction of the work?

[midnightman]

I wonder should Jody Watley be giving this same type of scolding for not wanting to work with Howard Hewett and Jeffrey Daniel on a Shalamar reunion? What happened with the Supremes virtually happened with Shalamar except Jody wasn't planning a Shalamar reunion and she still got the brunt of it. Point is not everyone handled things the way they should have.

[RanRan79]

What it comes down to and always came down to was lack of communication between Mary and Diana. They've had horrible communication skills going back to the Supremes. Maybe Mary should have spoken up at Motown 25 and said No I'm not okay with just doing Someday. Maybe Diana should have told Mary she wasn't okay with her tell all book herself. Maybe Mary should have called Diana when the reunion rumors started instead of waiting around for her. Flo didnt have that problem with Diana, I always believe if she lived we'd probably have a few successful reunions.

Agree 1000 percent!!

[RanRan79]

I wonder should Jody Watley be giving this same type of scolding for not wanting to work with Howard Hewett and Jeffrey Daniel on a Shalamar reunion? What happened with the Supremes virtually happened with Shalamar except Jody wasn't planning a Shalamar reunion and she still got the brunt of it. Point is not everyone handled things the way they should have.

The Shalamar thing is even nastier because Jody can't get past the way she was treated regarding her pregnancy. I think things would go a long way if Howard and Jeffrey offered sincere apologies and acknowledged that their behavior was of young men afraid of losing their dream jobs and not mature men who know the value of fatherhood.

[marv2]

An interesting article. I must admit i was not aware that tickets were selling that badly. I think it was rather optimistic of Mary and Cindy to state they were willing to start negotiations from scratch lol.
Regardless of how you dress it up ie this is how business is usually done, it must have been difficult for Mary to hear from other sources that Diana was negotiating for a Supremes reunion tour when she herself had worked so hard to keep the Supremes flame alive. Then to finally get a call many months later. All of this following the way they were treated at Motown 25. ie "The girls will be happy with a medley", which naturally caused unnecessary resentments at the time.
I'm not saying Mary is a saint, but to some degree you have see her point of view
I would like to think Diana was ill advised, one of the reasons i look forward to a new book sometime soon.

Yeah! Jay Leno said to his audience one night on the Tonight Show that if you're looking for some place peaceful and quiet over the weekend, try going to Diana Ross and The Supremes Return to Love concert. LOL! Another time he went door to door in some city and ask residents to "try out" for spots as "Diana Ross' Supremes". He had this elderly woman put on a bad wig and a poncho and sway back and forth singing "Baby Love", another was this garage band /punk group of guys that put on costumes and more bad wigs and sang "Baby Love" before showing their armpits in the dresses LOL! Jay Leno was all over this tour with jokes nightly.

[marv2]

What it comes down to and always came down to was lack of communication between Mary and Diana. They've had horrible communication skills going back to the Supremes. Maybe Mary should have spoken up at Motown 25 and said No I'm not okay with just doing Someday. Maybe Diana should have told Mary she wasn't okay with her tell all book herself. Maybe Mary should have called Diana when the reunion rumors started instead of waiting around for her. Flo didnt have that problem with Diana, I always believe if she lived we'd probably have a few successful reunions.

Flo would just beat Diane up when she pissed her off....

[marv2]

that's pretty much what i was saying earlier. Sure there might have been some operational issues that the promoters would have working on [[logistics and all) that Mary prob wouldn't have needed to be involved in. but i completely agree. when it came to HOW the show would be presented, the content, the promotion, etc. she should have been involved.

but you say how in their right mind would invest millions in a flop of an idea?

so who in their right mind willingly turns down 4x their annual earnings for doing a fraction of the work?

That's not what I said. I said, who in their right minds would invest millions of dollars into something and not know what the ingredients are? Ever heard of a prospectus? In the case of the Supremes, Mary Wilson's book "Dreamgirl, My Life As A Supreme" would have served very well as a prospectus. At least the promoters would not have been walking around dumb..

[Roberta75]

Flo would just beat Diane up when she pissed her off....

Whats with you and women beating each other up. I bet girls used to pick catfights with you at highschool all the time.

[marv2]

that's pretty much what i was saying earlier. Sure there might have been some operational issues that the promoters would have working on [[logistics and all) that Mary prob wouldn't have needed to be involved in. but i completely agree. when it came to HOW the show would be presented, the content, the promotion, etc. she should have been involved.

but you say how in their right mind would invest millions in a flop of an idea?

so who in their right mind willingly turns down 4x their annual earnings for doing a fraction of the work?

Because when they were really the hit making Supremes on Motown, all three of them were paid the same amount! Who wants to go back to their old job for less pay?

[Roberta75]

Yeah! Jay Leno said to his audience one night on the Tonight Show that if you're looking for some place peaceful and quiet over the weekend, try going to Diana Ross and The Supremes Return to Love concert. LOL! Another time he went door to door in some city and ask residents to "try out" for spots as "Diana Ross' Supremes". He had this elderly woman put on a bad wig and a poncho and sway back and forth singing "Baby Love", another was this garage band /punk group of guys that put on costumes and more bad wigs and sang "Baby Love" before showing this armpits in the dresses LOL! Jay Leno was all over this tour with jokes nightly.

Admit it everytime RTL come up you are like.

[sup_fan]

Because when they were really the hit making Supremes on Motown, all three of them were paid the same amount! Who wants to go back to their old job for less pay?

because guess what - it's no longer 1967. 30+ years had passed and the women were not contractually signed a group any longer. in the subsequent years, their individual careers had gone in very different ways and there is, frankly, a hugely different market value [[from the POV of the promoters) to each individual member.

a tour of DMC would command a different rate than a tour of JMC and a tour of SCM. And the key difference is D or J or S. I'm not saying one is better than the other or talent or whatever. But if you were a promoter and looking to make money, the audience draw of Diana Ross is the most powerful. her "Brand" will attract the most concert goers. Mary would probably be next. the rest of the women significantly lower.

So based on the contribution DR could make to the overall sales of the tour, yes she should be paid more.

[marv2]

The Shalamar thing is even nastier because Jody can't get past the way she was treated regarding her pregnancy. I think things would go a long way if Howard and Jeffrey offered sincere apologies and acknowledged that their behavior was of young men afraid of losing their dream jobs and not mature men who know the value of fatherhood.

Ooooo no! Apologies would never work in case of Shalamar. She HATES Howard to the core! I don't think Howard is too fond of her either. Dick Griffey has to shoulder some of the blame for that. He pretty much made Howard the face, voice of the group and was paying him more than Jody and Jeffrey.

[marv2]

because guess what - it's no longer 1967. 30+ years had passed and the women were not contractually signed a group any longer. in the subsequent years, their individual careers had gone in very different ways and there is, frankly, a hugely different market value [[from the POV of the promoters) to each individual member.

a tour of DMC would command a different rate than a tour of JMC and a tour of SCM. And the key difference is D or J or S. I'm not saying one is better than the other or talent or whatever. But if you were a promoter and looking to make money, the audience draw of Diana Ross is the most powerful. her "Brand" will attract the most concert goers. Mary would probably be next. the rest of the women significantly lower.

So based on the contribution DR could make to the overall sales of the tour, yes she should be paid more.

It didn't matter that it wasn't 1967 anymore . It's just the facts. You see how things turned out. LOL!

[detmotownguy]

You know Marv, it is interesting that Lamont’s cousin told me you better go to one of the first few shows because the tour won’t last too long! Plus Ross’ wasn’t in the best shape. She sounded flat and raspy at times.

[marv2]

You know Marv, it is interesting that Lamont’s cousin told me you better go to one of the first few shows because the tour won’t last too long! Plus Ross’ wasn’t in the best shape. She sounded flat and raspy at times.

Everyone on Long Island were saying "not no way, not no how!" in regards to seeing that show. I even heard cops saying similar things the night I was at the Waldbaum's Balloon Festival! LOL!