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  1. #1

    Phil Spector - Part E - "A&M Records"

    Disenchanted with the music business, Phil Spector withdrew from record production for two years after the 1967 darkening of the lights at Philles Records. By 1969, however, he had grown bored with retirement, as well as with the state of pop music he was hearing on the radio. Phil was growing antsy!

    Rather than reactivate his Philles label and operate as an independent again, Phil arranged a partnership deal with Herb Alpert and Jerry Moss' A&M Records which guaranteed big-time distribution AND his own A&M/Phil Spector Productions label and logo which pictured a caricature of a little man in a black cape and a top-hat representing Phil, himself. Especially instrumental in Phil's new partnership was recording engineer Larry Levine who had engineered nearly all of Phil's Philles sessions at Gold Star for 5 years running, and who was now working at A&M after having been hired to design A&M's new recording studios in the newly-renovated Charlie Chaplain Theatre on North La Brea Avenue near Sunset Blvd. in Hollywood.

    Just as Jack Nitzsche had been Phil's right-hand man at the Gold Star sessions by writing out the musicians' sheet-music arrangements during Philles' heyday, Phil hired Perry Botkin, Jr., as his new music arranger for his A&M recordings. Perry Botkin was famous for his sweeping string passages which were his trademark, as were Phil's. In addition, Phil had also formed a new songwriting partnership with Toni Wine and Irwin Levine. Toni had composed the hit "Groovy Kind Of Love", and Irwin had written Gary Lewis & The Playboys' "This Diamond Ring". Together, they would provide hit material for Phil in 1969, and a string of hits for Tony Orlando & Dawn in the early '70s.

    Everything sounded promising at A&M, as Phil was given 'carte blanche' to record anyone he liked. He had chosen a relatively unknown act who specialized in the music he understood best and loved most -- the black voice. The Checkmates, Ltd. were a mixed-race soul group featuring two strong black lead singers -- Bobby Stevens and Sonny Charles -- who alternated on lead vocals and who showed great promise. And Phil also honored wife Ronnie's pleading to get back into the studio by releasing a new Spector-Wine-Levine record billed as The Ronettes. He even released, for the first time ever, Ike & Tina Turner's aborted "River Deep" Philles LP with a slightly altered and improved track list.

    Despite all this, including grand announcements of the A&M/Spector merger in all the important trade papers, Phil's return to the music scene was not exactly met with open arms as everyone had hoped. The Checkmates, Ltd.'s first single stalled at #69 on the charts, and the new release by The Ronettes sunk with barely a trace despite Spector/Wine/Levine's exciting melodious/lyrical composition, Perry's beautiful arrangement, Phil's top-notch production, and Ronnie's perfect performance. The Ike & Tina album also sold poorly. The Checkmates' next 45, however -- "Black Pearl" -- was a success, hitting #13 on the Billlboard Pop Chart and #8 on the R&B chart. With only one more single and an LP release by The Checkmates, Ltd., that was the extent of Phil Spector's 1969 stint at A&M Records.

  2. #2
    A&M 45s:

    A&M 1039 (Released 3/1969)
    THE CHECKMATES, LTD.
    "Love Is All I Have To Give"
    (Phil Spector - Bobby Stevens)
    Producer: Phil Spector
    Arranger: Perry Botkin, Jr.
    https://youtu.be/vranme4NI5Q
    b/w
    "Never Should Have Lied"
    (B. Baugh. - C. Stevens)
    Producer: Even-Stevens Productions
    Arranger: Uncredited
    https://youtu.be/dYxylL7NnnM


    A&M 1040 (Released 4/1969)
    THE RONETTES
    "You Came, You Saw, You Conquered"
    (Phil Spector - Toni Wine - Irwin Levine)
    Producer: Phil Spector
    Arranger: Perry Botkin, Jr.
    https://youtu.be/6Cm7xtu8tkc
    b/w
    "Oh, I Love You"
    (Phil Spector)
    Producer: Phil Spector
    Arranger: Phil Spector
    https://youtu.be/N9qRrrOBjwI


    A&M 1053 (Released 5/1969)
    SONNY CHARLES & THE CHECKMATES
    "Black Pearl"
    (Phil Spector - Toni Wine - Irwin Levine)
    Producer: Phil Spector
    Arranger: Perry Botkin, Jr.
    https://youtu.be/AebxrdnE3HY
    b/w
    "Lazy Susan" (Instrumental)
    (Harvey Trees)
    Producer: Even-Stevens Productions
    Arranger: Uncredited
    https://youtu.be/c43XAdSlASs


    A&M 1053 (Released 1969)
    IKE & TINA TURNER
    "River Deep - Mountain High"
    (Phil Spector - Ellie Greenwich - Jeff Barry)
    Producer: Phil Spector
    Arranger: Jack "Specs" Nitzsche
    Lead Vocal: Tina Turner
    https://youtu.be/pWK7v0gIHLo
    b/w
    "I'll Keep You Happy"
    (Phil Spector)
    Lead Vocal: Tina Turner
    Producer: Phil Spector
    Arranger: Phil Spector
    https://youtu.be/hTBOx-rcdc8


    A&M 1127 (Released 1969)
    SONNY CHARLES & THE CHECKMATES
    "Proud Mary"
    (J. Fogerty)
    Producer: Phil Spector
    Arranger: Dee Barton & Perry Botkin, Jr.
    https://youtu.be/ZABBReUiMpg
    b/w
    "Do You Love Your Baby"
    (Sonny Charles)
    Producer: Even-Stevens Productions
    Arranger: Uncredited
    https://youtu.be/qecbWABXtMA


    A&M 1170 (Released 1969)
    IKE & TINA TURNER
    "A Love Like Yours (Don't Come Knocking Every Day)"
    (Holland - Dozier - Holland)
    Lead Vocal: Tina Turner
    Producer: Phil Spector
    Arranger: Uncredited
    https://youtu.be/axCYkOnptv8
    b/w
    "Save The Last Dance For Me"
    (Doc Pomus - Mort Shuman)
    Lead Vocal: Tina Turner
    Producer: Phil Spector
    Arranger: Uncredited
    https://youtu.be/e0b4jq5r76w

  3. #3
    A&M LPs:

    A&M 4178 (Released 9/1969)

    IKE & TINA TURNER - "River Deep - Mountain High"

    Producer: Phil Spector (unless otherwise noted)

    Side A:

    1) "River Deep - Mountain High"
    (P. Spector - E. Greenwich - J. Barry)
    Producer: Phil Spector
    Lead Vocal: Tina Turner
    https://youtu.be/e9Lehkou2Do

    2) "I Idolize You"
    (I. Turner)
    Producer: Ike Turner
    Lead Vocal: Tina Turner
    https://youtu.be/1-pqTW5gd3Q

    3) "A Love Like Yours (Don't Come Knocking Every Day)"
    (Holland - Dozier - Holland)
    Producer: Phil Spector
    Lead Vocal: Tina Turner
    https://youtu.be/lgHKVUVzheY

    4) "A Fool In Love"
    (I. Turner)
    Producer: Ike Turner
    Lead Vocal: Tina Turner
    https://youtu.be/qWIuZYWeIFs

    5) "Make 'Em Wait"
    (I. Turner)
    Producer: Ike Turner
    Lead Vocal: Tina Turner
    https://youtu.be/_kNVQVuhsZc

    6) "Hold On Baby"
    (P. Spector - E. Greenwich - J. Barry)
    Producer: Phil Spector
    Lead Vocal: Tina Turner
    https://youtu.be/FEE_L1z7f1Q


    Side B:

    1) "I'll Never Need More Than This"
    (P. Spector, J. Barry, E. Greenwich)
    Lead Vocal: Tina Turner
    Producer: Phil Spector
    Arranger: Jack "Specs" Nitzsche
    https://youtu.be/Gx2BoL07HJ0

    [NOTE: "I'll Never Need More Than This" replaces "You're So Fine" from the original Philles PHLP-4011 LP of which only 6 copies were pressed.]

    2) "Save The Last Dance For Me"
    (M. Shuman - D. Pomus)
    Producer: Phil Spector
    Lead Vocal: Tina Turner
    https://youtu.be/e0b4jq5r76w

    3) "Oh Baby (Things Ain't What They Used To Be)"
    (K. Harris)
    Producer: Ike Turner
    Lead Vocal: Tina Turner
    https://youtu.be/Surjo2h_EFI

    4) "Every Day I Have To Cry"
    (A. Alexander)
    Producer: Phil Spector
    Lead Vocal: Tina Turner
    https://youtu.be/l-lDD4qjxzc

    5) "Such A Fool For You"
    (I. Turner)
    Producer: Ike Turner
    Lead Vocal: Tina Turner
    https://youtu.be/aJFwmV3ITM0

    6) "It's Gonna Work Out Fine"
    (I. Turner)
    Producer: Ike Turner
    Lead Vocal: Tina Turner
    https://youtu.be/XDa5L8HyLqs


    A&M 4183 (Released 9/1969)

    THE CHECKMATES, LTD. FEATURING SONNY CHARLES

    "Love Is All We Have To Give"

    Side A - Producer: Phil Spector

    1) "Proud Mary"
    (J. Fogerty)
    https://youtu.be/ZABBReUiMpg

    2) "Spanish Harlem"
    (Phil Spector - Jerry Leiber)
    https://youtu.be/Yy9GK4zdivE

    3) "Black Pearl"
    (Phil Spector - Toni Wine - Irwin Levine)
    https://youtu.be/AebxrdnE3HY

    4) "I Keep Forgettin' "
    (Jerry Leiber - Mike Stoller - Garfield)
    https://youtu.be/7xIJ1CFwKx4

    5) "Love Is All I Have To Give"
    (Phil Spector - Bobby Stevens)
    https://youtu.be/UGVQYWjEICo


    Side B - Producer: Perry Botkin, Jr.

    1) "Ain't Got No"
    (James Rado - Gerome Ragni - Galt MacDermot)
    https://youtu.be/1Q_4RwsGw2E

    2) "I Got Life"
    (James Rado - Gerome Ragni - Galt MacDermot)
    https://youtu.be/1mYrfSJtKLQ
    3) "Let The Sunshine In"
    (James Rado - Gerome Ragni)
    https://youtu.be/55Zy2CwI7a8

    4) "Aquarius"
    (James Rado - Gerome Ragni)
    https://youtu.be/EWrPeCC4kng

    5) "Let The Sunshine In" / "Ain't Got No"
    (James Rado - Gerome Ragni)
    https://youtu.be/i4rQQihoUrQ
    Last edited by Philles/Motown Gary; 09-15-2019 at 06:59 PM.

  4. #4
    Thanks again for your hard work on annotating the Phil Spector catalog. Do you know if Phil did any promotional work on the recordings he released under the A&M Records deal? And are you considering doing a post of Spector's productions/co-productions for various artists (and record labels) during the '70s?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Motown Eddie View Post
    Thanks again for your hard work on annotating the Phil Spector catalog. Do you know if Phil did any promotional work on the recordings he released under the A&M Records deal? And are you considering doing a post of Spector's productions/co-productions for various artists (and record labels) during the '70s?
    You're very welcome, Eddie. And thank you! Can't say for sure, but, other than ads in Billboard announcing each new single and album release, I doubt if Phil did much promoting.

    To answer your question, yes -- I plan on covering all of Phil's music (Philles and post-Philles) until his unfortunate incarceration. I just submitted Part E - "A&M Records" (1969). Next will be Part F - "Apple Records" (1970). What I'm looking forward to most is Part H - "Phil Spector International" when Phil revived the Philles catalog via expanded editions of its girl-group albums as well as new recordings. In fact, I have plans which will carry us through at least Part J including some unexpected fun stuff! In the meantime, I'm glad you're enjoying it! And, thanks again, Eddie! I appreciate your interest and enthusiasm!

  6. #6
    CORRECTION -- Motown Eddie, the upcoming Part F - "Apple Records (1970)" above should have indicated the years 1970-1972, not just 1970.

  7. #7
    Great historical notes Gary.


    Worth noting that "I Keep Forgettin' " (my favourite of The Checkmates tracks) was released as a single in the UK backed with "Do You Love Your Baby" on A&M AMS780.

    AMS747 "Love Is All I Have To Give" bw "Never Should Have Lied" - The Checkmates Ltd

    AMS752 "Black Pearl" bw "Lazy Susan" - Sonny Charles and Checkmates Ltd

    AMS769 "Proud Mary" bw "Spanish Harlem" - The Checkmates Ltd. featuring Sonny Charles

    AMS780 "I Keep Forgettin' " bw "Do You Love Your Baby" - The Checkmates Ltd. featuring Sonny Charles

    Are these B sides available on a CD?


    In the UK The Checkmates lost out on "Black Pearl" to Horace Faith who took a great reggae version to number 13 (that's the version I bought at the time and I think the one I still prefer too). Had a great B' side too "Help Me Help Myself". Anyhow here's Horace Faith.


  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by mysterysinger View Post
    Great historical notes Gary.


    Worth noting that "I Keep Forgettin' " (my favourite of The Checkmates tracks) was released as a single in the UK backed with "Do You Love Your Baby" on A&M AMS780.

    AMS747 "Love Is All I Have To Give" bw "Never Should Have Lied" - The Checkmates Ltd

    AMS752 "Black Pearl" bw "Lazy Susan" - Sonny Charles and Checkmates Ltd

    AMS769 "Proud Mary" bw "Spanish Harlem" - The Checkmates Ltd. featuring Sonny Charles

    AMS780 "I Keep Forgettin' " bw "Do You Love Your Baby" - The Checkmates Ltd. featuring Sonny Charles

    Are these B sides available on a CD?


    In the UK The Checkmates lost out on "Black Pearl" to Horace Faith who took a great reggae version to number 13 (that's the version I bought at the time and I think the one I still prefer too). Had a great B' side too "Help Me Help Myself". Anyhow here's Horace Faith.

    Thanks, Mystery. To my knowledge, those Checkmates B-sides are not available on any CD releases -- at least not on any Spector-related CDs which are what I collect.

    I had no idea that any other artist had covered The Checkmates' "Black Pearl" -- let alone beat The Checkmates' version to the punch. If you recall, the same thing happened when Nella Dodd nearly beat Motown and The Supremes to the punch with "Come See About Me". At the time, I never understood how another record company could beat Motown at releasing a Motown song. Why would Motown give away one of their own songs to a competing record company? Then, it hit me! Apparently, once a song is published, it becomes fair game for any record company to release -- even when they're published by Motown's own Jobete, BMI, or Stein And Van Stock. (To my knowledge, the only other time that happened to Motown was when The Fifth Dimension released Diana's "Love Hangover".) You'd think that other record companies would know better than to try to out-do Motown. After all, nobody can do Motown like Motown themselves!

  9. #9
    Also, Mystery (see above), Horace Faith's version of "Black Pearl" is really quite nice, although, like you, I prefer the version that I already know and love which, in my case, is Phil's original by Sonny Charles & The Checkmates.
    Last edited by Philles/Motown Gary; 09-17-2019 at 04:11 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary View Post
    Also, Mystery (see above), Horace Faith's version of "Black Pearl" is really quite nice, although, like you, I prefer the version that I already know and love which, in my case, is Phil's original by Sonny Charles & The Checkmates.
    Sonny & the Checkmates version of "Black Pearl" is the now classic, iconic version. I can remember them using it on programs like the Black Miss USA or America pageant back in the early 70s

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Sonny & the Checkmates version of "Black Pearl" is the now classic, iconic version. I can remember them using it on programs like the Black Miss USA or America pageant back in the early 70s
    I didn't know that, Marv, but it would certainly stand to reason. And perfectly appropriate, too!

  12. #12
    Cover versions were a regular feature in the UK charts back then. Famously Cilla Black ran closely on the charts with The Righteous Bros with her hit version of "You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling". Cilla reached number 2 whereas TRB made number 1.
    Last edited by mysterysinger; 09-18-2019 at 03:31 AM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by mysterysinger View Post
    Cover versions were a regular feature in the UK charts back then. Famously Cilla Black ran closely on the charts with The Righteous Bros with her hit version of "You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling". Cilla reached number 2 whereas TRB made number 1.
    Same here in the U.S., Mystery, although cover versions released as singles here are usually recorded a few years after the original hit version, not simultaneously with the current version.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary View Post
    Same here in the U.S., Mystery, although cover versions released as singles here are usually recorded a few years after the original hit version, not simultaneously with the current version.
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    A "cover version" of a song CAN'T be recorded 2 years after the original is out, because if it did wait that long, it couldn't possibly cover up the original's access to markets, and reap sales from piggybacking on that song's popularity. What you describe (an issue NOT released at the same time, but long after an original's initial run on the charts), is a "remake" of a song. Cilla Black's version of "You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling" was put out deliberately with the purpose of piggybacking on The Righteous Brothers' hit version, and getting extra sales, because lots of people already liked the song through familiarity with it. that happened plenty in USA, with White groups and artists putting out Pop versions of R&B songs Diamonds covering The Gladiolas' "Little Darlin' ", Cheers covering The Chords' "Sh-Boom" (Eeek!) , Pat Boone covering Little Richard's "Tutti Frutti"(Yeccchh!), and the like.

    But that type of activity lasted long after, as in Betty Everett covering Ramona King's regional hit, "It's In His Kiss", calling it "The Shoop, Shoop Song" (yes, I know that even Ramona King was covering Merry Clayton's original). Peter Tosh singing The Temptations' "Don't Look back" was a REMAKE (albeit in a different music genre). I'm sure that true cover versions are probably still occurring today (but can't give examples, as I haven't kept up with what was happening in music since 1967 or so, (not even when I owned a record company during the 1980s).

    Why don't we just remove ALL other ways to describe or say something, except one, then language would be much simpler. Oh yeah, then we'd have LOTS more misunderstandings between people, and a lot more fights, battles and wars. Try speaking Norwegian, where in many cases, there is only one way to express a concept, whereas, in the vocabulary-rich language, English, there may be 7 or 8, or even more than 10. I'm not a big fan of The USA; but its language, when used to its greatest level of facility, is a very useful tool for communication. Let's not help facilitate its degradation.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by robb_k View Post
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    A "cover version" of a song CAN'T be recorded 2 years after the original is out, because if it did wait that long, it couldn't possibly cover up the original's access to markets, and reap sales from piggybacking on that song's popularity. What you describe (an issue NOT released at the same time, but long after an original's initial run on the charts), is a "remake" of a song. Cilla Black's version of "You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling" was put out deliberately with the purpose of piggybacking on The Righteous Brothers' hit version, and getting extra sales, because lots of people already liked the song through familiarity with it. that happened plenty in USA, with White groups and artists putting out Pop versions of R&B songs Diamonds covering The Gladiolas' "Little Darlin' ", Cheers covering The Chords' "Sh-Boom" (Eeek!) , Pat Boone covering Little Richard's "Tutti Frutti"(Yeccchh!), and the like.

    But that type of activity lasted long after, as in Betty Everett covering Ramona King's regional hit, "It's In His Kiss", calling it "The Shoop, Shoop Song" (yes, I know that even Ramona King was covering Merry Clayton's original). Peter Tosh singing The Temptations' "Don't Look back" was a REMAKE (albeit in a different music genre). I'm sure that true cover versions are probably still occurring today (but can't give examples, as I haven't kept up with what was happening in music since 1967 or so, (not even when I owned a record company during the 1980s).

    Why don't we just remove ALL other ways to describe or say something, except one, then language would be much simpler. Oh yeah, then we'd have LOTS more misunderstandings between people, and a lot more fights, battles and wars. Try speaking Norwegian, where in many cases, there is only one way to express a concept, whereas, in the vocabulary-rich language, English, there may be 7 or 8, or even more than 10. I'm not a big fan of The USA; but its language, when used to its greatest level of facility, is a very useful tool for communication. Let's not help facilitate its degradation.
    Jeez, Robb! Get a grip!!! So I confused the term "cover" version with "remake". Who cares? Didn't mean to upset you so! If you're not a big fan of the USA, that's you're prerogative. But don't accuse me of "causing misunderstandings between people and a lot more fights" over something so trivial as the terms "cover version" versus "remake". Only a troublemaker would think in such harsh and negative terms. If terminology is all it takes to set you off, then kindly stay out of my threads. I'm creating them for fun and for those who appreciate them -- not for troublemakers. For your own sake, calm down! Getting that upset over something so trivial is unhealthy -- for you as well as for others around you.

  16. #16
    Hey Gary stop facilitating the degradation of the English language!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    Hey Gary stop facilitating the degradation of the English language!
    Yeah, right, Kenny! HA!

  18. #18
    I saw Robb's post as tongue in cheek but there is a good point to it. Social media has facilitated the degredation of the English language more than ever. I just hate when folks use the word of instead of have. For example Heaven Must Of Sent You. Nah! Also highlights mis-use of words such as your and you're (short for you are). You're going to get the new Blinky CD. Your CD is on order. Back to cover and re-make, I seem to remember times when a song has been in the charts by the same artist but on two different labels (may have been "Every Beat Of My Heart" but I'm sure there have been others?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by mysterysinger View Post
    I saw Robb's post as tongue in cheek but there is a good point to it. Social media has facilitated the degredation of the English language more than ever. I just hate when folks use the word of instead of have. For example Heaven Must Of Sent You. Nah! Also highlights mis-use of words such as your and you're (short for you are). You're going to get the new Blinky CD. Your CD is on order. Back to cover and re-make, I seem to remember times when a song has been in the charts by the same artist but on two different labels (may have been "Every Beat Of My Heart" but I'm sure there have been others?
    Mystery, I agree with you regarding the degregation of the English language -- both in spelling and in grammar usage. Other than high school band, English grammar and spelling was the ONE thing I excelled in. In addition, I worked in a word processing office at a college to earn a living for 18 years. Naturally, knowing how to spell was a prerequisite. Like you, I see people misspelling and misusing basic words all the time. And, as time goes on, the worse it gets. What really annoys me is when people mistakenly use the made-up term "conversating" when the actual word is "conversing". Even more annoying is the fact that, now that so many people are incorrectly using "conversating", the powers that be have decided to make "conversating" an official word in the dictionary. Now that, apparently, anything goes, so much for the English skills that we've learned and carefully honed over the years. To my knowledge, I haven't contributed to the degradation of the English language via spelling errors. It should be obvious from my writing skills that I possess a knowledge of how to write. If I confused "cover" version with "remake", I hardly think it warranted a long, 3-paragraph lecture aimed directly at me, culminating in the suggestion that my error is the kind if thing that is "starting trouble and fights". If Robb's comment was tongue in cheek, it sure didn't feel like it to me.

  20. #20
    Let's face it auto correct on phones is often a pain and can make fools of us all. Sometimes the "degredation" can be hilarious - Stanley Unwin was truly funny and made a living from it.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by mysterysinger View Post
    Let's face it auto correct on phones is often a pain and can make fools of us all. Sometimes the "degredation" can be hilarious - Stanley Unwin was truly funny and made a living from it.
    Yeah, I hear ya! I don't mind it when my Galaxy 10e corrects a typo, but when it changes a word that I KNOW I typed correctly, it can be annoying! One word that this phone has a mind of it's own about is the word "Crystals". Each and every time I typed the group "The Crystals", my phone automatically changed it to The "Crystal's" with an apostrophe. You can imagine how many times THAT happened in my Phil Spector threads! Did I mention it was annoying?!!! Oh, brother!

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary View Post
    Jeez, Robb! Get a grip!!! So I confused the term "cover" version with "remake". Who cares? Didn't mean to upset you so! If you're not a big fan of the USA, that's you're prerogative. But don't accuse me of "causing misunderstandings between people and a lot more fights" over something so trivial as the terms "cover version" versus "remake". Only a troublemaker would think in such harsh and negative terms. If terminology is all it takes to set you off, then kindly stay out of my threads. I'm creating them for fun and for those who appreciate them -- not for troublemakers. For your own sake, calm down! Getting that upset over something so trivial is unhealthy -- for you as well as for others around you.
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    Sorry. I meant no offence to you personally. The last thing I want to do is create bad feeling between people. Yes, it was a bit tongue in cheek. I've been on this forum since almost its start in 2001, and most members who have been around here for awhile would be shocked to see me say something negative about someone, or make a mean-spirited post.

    I didn't mean to accuse you personally, of doing something that makes it more difficult to communicate. That was a rant against the phenomenon of changes in spoken language (used by the bulk of the population) that are detrimental. Many changes have a net beneficial effect. But the narrowings of ability to express a wider range of meanings has a negative effect. Even if the act of "covering up" a recording release doesn't exist anymore, people still need to talk about it as history (especially very recent history). So, it's better to be able to differentiate two different concepts than lump them together losing one of the two definitions. Unfortunately, once change in language is on its way, it's close to impossible to change its natural course.

    I hope you understand now that I meant no harm, and there are no hard feelings. I definitely don't want to come off as a troublemaker. I hope now, we can get back on topic about Phil Spector.
    Last edited by robb_k; 09-19-2019 at 11:40 AM.

  23. #23
    Thanks, Robb. Apology accepted. I know you're typically not a troublemaker, which is why I was so shocked when it felt like you were singling me out for "causing misunderstandings between people and a lot more fights" when I know that I, like you, am not a troublemaker. That was the part that upset me most. Thanks for clearing that up, Robb. I appreciate it!
    Last edited by Philles/Motown Gary; 09-19-2019 at 12:56 PM.

  24. #24
    well done you two !!

  25. #25
    so Phil Spector winds up at A&M about the same time as The Carpenters. I wonder if Phil and Richard ever rubbed shoulders? Probably too big of personalities between the two to co-create , but perhaps there are stories there??

    I'm liking the The Checkmates LTD , and I'm particularly fascinated by this :
    1) "Proud Mary"
    (J. Fogerty)
    https://youtu.be/ZABBReUiMpg
    mmm

    Love the choir . Interesting that so much vocal time was given to a female singer ( who?) when this is a recording by a five member male vocal group. (That's Phil for you, right !?)



    So Ike observed this remake (oh oh!) of this Credence hit by his labelmates either on their album , or he heard it being created in the studio , and stuck it , along with Phil's interpretation, in his back pocket for later use. I wonder how Phil felt about that? Especially when it became a Top Five Hit and a signature song for them. Hopefully , he thought ,"Well done!"



    Last edited by Boogiedown; 09-20-2019 at 12:50 AM.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    so Phil Spector winds up at A&M about the same time as The Carpenters. I wonder if Phil and Richard ever rubbed shoulders? Probably too big of personalities between the two to co-create , but perhaps there are stories there??

    I'm liking the The Checkmates LTD , and I'm particularly fascinated by this :


    mmm

    Love the choir . Interesting that so much vocal time was given to a female singer ( who?) when this is a recording by a five member male vocal group. (That's Phil for you, right !?)



    So Ike observed this remake (oh oh!) of this Credence hit by his labelmates either on their album , or he heard it being created in the studio , and stuck it , along with Phil's interpretation, in his back pocket for later use. I wonder how Phil felt about that? Especially when it became a Top Five Hit and a signature song for them. Hopefully , he thought ,"Well done!"



    Hey John! Did Phil and Richard ever cross paths? Not that I know of. It's never been mentioned in the Spector books nor the Carpenters book that I have.

    I was pretty sure you'd love this super-charged version of "Proud Mary"! It's pure Phil Spector from start to finish! The choir is gigantic! The strings are intense! The Wall Of Sound is standing strong and mighty!

    I'm afraid I don't understand your comment about so much time being given to a female singer when the Checkmates were a 5-man group.

    Ike was indeed paying attention to Phil's version of "Proud Mary", although I never thought Ike & Tina's version sounded anything like Phil's version on The Checkmates. In fact, I much prefer Phil's and The Checkmates' version to Ike's.

    Hey Boog, what did you think of The Ronettes' "You Came, You Saw, You Conquered"? Did you like it, I hope?

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary View Post

    Hey Boog, what did you think of The Ronettes' "You Came, You Saw, You Conquered"? Did you like it, I hope?
    What do I think? I think it's fantastic!!






    Written in part by Toni Wine, one of the voices heard singing as a member of the group called (ahem) The Archies!

    A&M 1040 (Released 4/1969)
    THE RONETTES
    "You Came, You Saw, You Conquered"
    (Phil Spector - Toni Wine - Irwin Levine)
    Producer: Phil Spector
    Arranger: Perry Botkin, Jr.
    https://youtu.be/6Cm7xtu8tkc

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    What do I think? I think it's fantastic!!






    Written in part by Toni Wine, one of the voices heard singing as a member of the group called (ahem) The Archies!
    At-a-boy! You hadn't commented on it, so I wasn't sure what to think. I had a feeling you'd love it. You raved about Darlene's "Stumble And Fall" which has a unique melody with wonderfully-intricate chords, as does Ronnie's "You Came, You Saw, You Conquered". Both deserved to be huge hits. (At least they were at the top of my personal hit parade!)

  29. #29
    I too wondered whether the paths of The Carpenters and Phil Spector crossed due to the A&M link. I feel sure Phil would have jumped at the chance to produce Karen who had the most wonderful voice, but the truth is they didn't need him because Richard was such a huge talent musically (and in combination with Jack Daugherty their productions were perfect).

    It is said that the sound on their track "Only Yesterday" was meant to emulate the sound of Phil Spector. They did share the services of some of the "Wrecking Crew" - most notably Hal Blaine on drums even though Karen was also a very competent drummer, you can't get better than the best. Also, they recorded a version of "Da Doo Ron Ron" on their Now & Then album.

    This article is of interest regarding Leon Russell and the track "Superstar". Phil Spector does get a wee mention lol.
    http://splashingrocks.blogspot.com/2...and-unity.html

  30. #30
    Just to say that in England we used the term "revivals" rather than "remakes"

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    Just to say that in England we used the term "revivals" rather than "remakes"
    That makes sense, 144man.

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by mysterysinger View Post
    I too wondered whether the paths of The Carpenters and Phil Spector crossed due to the A&M link. I feel sure Phil would have jumped at the chance to produce Karen who had the most wonderful voice, but the truth is they didn't need him because Richard was such a huge talent musically (and in combination with Jack Daugherty their productions were perfect).

    It is said that the sound on their track "Only Yesterday" was meant to emulate the sound of Phil Spector. They did share the services of some of the "Wrecking Crew" - most notably Hal Blaine on drums even though Karen was also a very competent drummer, you can't get better than the best. Also, they recorded a version of "Da Doo Ron Ron" on their Now & Then album.

    This article is of interest regarding Leon Russell and the track "Superstar". Phil Spector does get a wee mention lol.
    http://splashingrocks.blogspot.com/2...and-unity.html
    Mystery, Richard Carpenter's productions on Karen were so beautiful and so completely perfect, I wouldn't want any of my favorite producers tampering with the formula -- not even Phil Spector -- and not even any of our favorite Motown producers. When Phil Ramone produced Karen's solo outing, it just wasn't the same. The magic was gone. Karen needed Richard, just like Ronnie, Darlene, & Lala need Phil to bring out the magic in their performances.

    Very interesting article on Leon Russell. I had no idea that Leon had pulled such a stunt at any of Phil's Gold Star sessions. I did not, however, appreciate the author referring to Phil as a "notorious jerk". Phil may have had his faults, and, Lord knows, he crapped on numerous people whether they deserved it or not, but each time he entered Gold Star, he redeemed himself as a musical genius. The author should have shown some respect for that. I'm sure the author wouldn't have appreciated Leon messing with one of his written interviews, either! But, anyway, back to the point -- Leon's "Superstar" and "A Song For You" were taylor-made for Karen. Combined with Richard's production, you couldn't get much better than that!

    Whenever I see or hear Leon's name, I'm constantly reminded of the Gold Star session for Darlene's "Christmas (Baby Please Come Home)" at which Phil whipped out his checkbook and wrote a $50 check to Leon as a bonus for his fantastic piano performance at the end of the song! That's the kind of stuff good memories are made of!

    Thanks again for the article. I really enjoyed it!

  33. #33
    and then Sonny Charles did his version of Horace Faith's "Black Pearl" (sans Reggae though). Obviously prefers it faster lol. Sonny also performed with the Steve Miller Band.


  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by mysterysinger View Post
    and then Sonny Charles did his version of Horace Faith's "Black Pearl" (sans Reggae though). Obviously prefers it faster lol. Sonny also performed with the Steve Miller Band.

    Wow! Not sure how old this is, but, as of this performance, Sonny Charles has still got it! A tad too fast for my taste, but still enjoyable. Who would have ever guessed that Sonny was sick with the flu at the time of the A&M recording session? (How do singers do that? Whenever I'm sick, I'm laid up in bed for days with a fever! Can hardly move, let alone sing!) Interesting that Phil slowed the pitch down to where a sick Sonny could hit the high notes, and then speeded it back up to normal for the final master. Such was the genius of Phil Spector!

  35. #35
    I had the pleasure of seeing The Steve Miller Band at the Calif. Mid State Fair , can it really be eight years ago already , in 2011, and i was captivated by this presence on stage who just seemed to be bopping and hanging out to have a good time . Learned at some point it was Sonny Charles.
    Also that night, Burton Cummings of The Guess Who ( AMERICAN WOMAN , THESE EYES) was the opening act , and we sat in a favorite spot , the side bleachers where you can see behind the stage , back where the artists' trailers are. We watched Steve Miller and Burton Cummings greeting each other and plotting , so it was no surprise when later, Steve Miller invited Burton to come join him on stage to do A song together.

    this is the actual show:

    ;
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 10-27-2019 at 12:31 AM.

  36. #36
    Boogie, so that was the actual performance that you attended? Cool! You were undoubtedly the camera man, right? BTW, who is the big guy singing over to the right?

  37. #37
    Gary, do you mean the fellow in the brown leisure shirt with beige diamond pattern ? That's Sonny Charles!

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    Gary, do you mean the fellow in the brown leisure shirt with beige diamond pattern ? That's Sonny Charles!
    Well, by golly you're right, John! That IS Sonny!
    At first viewing, I could have sworn the guy was white. Thanks for pointing that out.

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