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Thread: One more chance

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    With any luck they would have allowed minimal interference from Diana leading to better quality albums. I don't want to be a Debbie Downer on this subject, but it very much appears at that point in time Diana was more interested in making money then getting creative and involved with her music. Garry Katz and Barry Gibb both testify to this and the results kind of speak for themselves.
    I'm sure at the time she had her reasons and if nothing else Diana proved herself to be an astute and successful businesswoman. One of the reasons she has ended up a very wealthy lady today.
    The rca years made Diana a very wealthy lady. Shrewd investments helped her fortune to grow even bigger. Sadly this was all at the expense of quality music. I just wish she had taken more care with the choice of material on those first two albums. We (and she) really could have had it both ways.

  2. #52
    WDFFIL is a solid album. “Think I’m in love” alone is worth the price of admission. Then you also have “Mirror Mirror”, “Fools”, EL, “Sweet Surrender”. All good IMO.

  3. #53
    Blue - i know we've chatted a lot about WDFFIL and love all of the different opinions on here. out of curiosity, what do you dislike about the album? what are some of the errors you see with it?

    as for me, i think the solo Endless Love is ghastly. horrid

    but i think Sweet surrender, mirror, mirror, think i'm in love are very strong songs. I also really like sweet nothings. sexy and playful. and just a touch of camp and silliness

    title track and it's never too late are solid. not the best things she ever recorded but strong. and i sort of get the idea that she "wanted to return to her roots w Why and get back in touch..."

    two can make it is ok. light, fun. decent album filler

    Work that body is total camp and fun IMO. but with Sweet Nothings, you already had something sort of along that lines. two tracks on an album might be a bit much.

    I thought the harder "rock" sound of Mirror was a hot one for her. and maybe if you cut Endless and Work that body and do some more of that, it would have been stronger.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Blue - i know we've chatted a lot about WDFFIL and love all of the different opinions on here. out of curiosity, what do you dislike about the album? what are some of the errors you see with it?

    as for me, i think the solo Endless Love is ghastly. horrid

    but i think Sweet surrender, mirror, mirror, think i'm in love are very strong songs. I also really like sweet nothings. sexy and playful. and just a touch of camp and silliness

    title track and it's never too late are solid. not the best things she ever recorded but strong. and i sort of get the idea that she "wanted to return to her roots w Why and get back in touch..."

    two can make it is ok. light, fun. decent album filler

    Work that body is total camp and fun IMO. but with Sweet Nothings, you already had something sort of along that lines. two tracks on an album might be a bit much.

    I thought the harder "rock" sound of Mirror was a hot one for her. and maybe if you cut Endless and Work that body and do some more of that, it would have been stronger.
    I love this thoughtful analysis of the album and I agree with your critiques 100%. I felt the same about WDFFIL at the time of its release; it wasn’t incredible, but it wasn’t awful. It had to grow on me. I’ve actually been revisiting the LP for the past couple days, trying to hear what others seem to despise. In my opinion, it is a decent MOR album. Work That Body is the only song that annoys me, but it’s campy fun as you stated. Fools doesn’t compare with The Boss, diana or Baby It’s Me, but it’s okay...

  5. #55
    and i do certainly appreciate the fact that this was the DIANA ROSS DEBUT ON NEW LABEL and therefore the expectations were probably higher. that she should have released a groundbreaking lp, not just a decent one.

    at the time of the release, i wasn't a major fan and wasn't following the specifics of her career. i of course remember diana 80 and some of the boss. and remember To Love Again, but mostly because i recognized Theme From Mahogany.

    And i do remember the title track to Why. but in hindsight a more powerful set

    Mirror was a much tougher sound and something new for her. which i liked. Plus she didn't get too carried away with the echo. so you can still understand her lyrics. it seems to flow well with Sweet Surrender IMO. I think a more 80s rock/pop sound would have served her well. had she had another rock song or two, plus a good 80s pop/rock ballad, you would have maybe dumped some of the 80s disco lite tracks like think i'm in love and two can make it.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Blue - i know we've chatted a lot about WDFFIL and love all of the different opinions on here. out of curiosity, what do you dislike about the album? what are some of the errors you see with it?

    as for me, i think the solo Endless Love is ghastly. horrid

    but i think Sweet surrender, mirror, mirror, think i'm in love are very strong songs. I also really like sweet nothings. sexy and playful. and just a touch of camp and silliness

    title track and it's never too late are solid. not the best things she ever recorded but strong. and i sort of get the idea that she "wanted to return to her roots w Why and get back in touch..."

    two can make it is ok. light, fun. decent album filler

    Work that body is total camp and fun IMO. but with Sweet Nothings, you already had something sort of along that lines. two tracks on an album might be a bit much.

    I thought the harder "rock" sound of Mirror was a hot one for her. and maybe if you cut Endless and Work that body and do some more of that, it would have been stronger.
    My main problem with the album is the bland and lacklustre production. She was quite simply too inexperienced to do this project justice. Just listen to the awful intro to Why do fools. Someone like Quincy would have polished that up and made it sound less like a demo.
    As regards the songs her solo take on Endless Love was quite simply not required. You should hear what Lionel had to say about that!
    Sweet nothings and work that body are just dreadful. Whatever made her think they would enhance the album?
    It is not all bad news. Mirror mirror is excellent. She sounds on point and we get the impression she is actually enjoying herself. Her production on this is good. You can hear the Chic influences and it is unfortunate she did not go down this particular path more.
    Sweet surrender and Think i'm in love are nice songs, but seem to lack that extra spark to ignite them into something really worth listening to. Once again i blame Ms D for not pushing herself more in the studio .
    The rest of the album contains bland fillers. Not exactly bad songs, but there is certainly something lacking in her delivery.
    The whole project was rushed out and that is how it came across. Not many people were happy with the finished project, but they had the deadline to adhere too, and they were grateful for the momentum gathered from the Chic project and Endless love that helped see it home.
    I have probably said way too much and i await the inevitable reprimand from people who think i have gone too far.

  7. #57
    Bluebrock...I absolutely love your input on this forum.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by mowsville View Post
    Bluebrock...I absolutely love your input on this forum.
    That is so kind of you to say mowsville. Your feedback is very much appreciated. I had to hold myself back in responding to sup fan. Not at him you understand. He happens to be a good friend of mine outside of this forum, but other casual viewers of this forum who may not necessarily be actual members may take exception to my comments, but i had to say what i felt in my heart. Whether that comes back to bite me on the backside remains to be seen. Thank you again my friend.

  9. #59
    yes Blue - your history and insights are always enjoyed and appreciated. and of course, given your personal and professional relationship with Miss Ross, i understand that some information is not for public consumption. which is the right thing to do

    Now that said hehehehe

    i have so many disagreements with you on the music of Why lololol. and i love how we all (more or less) can share our differences. there have been times that after reading a fan's opinion on here i realize "hey - i agree with that now!" like someone one said Nathan Jones should have built up more after the bridge and really exploded with synths and more ad libs and all. i think that was the missing ingredient there

    but back to WDFFIL

    the intro to Why - yes it's a drum machine and synthesized sound. but this was the 80s. i feel it's on point. and diana's lead and background vocals. it's playful, energetic.

    Endless love - agree 100% and would love to hear what Lionel's thoughts were! lol

    Sweet Nothings vs Work that body - between the two, i think the backing track of Work is stronger but the lyric and story for Sweet is stronger (relatively). had Work NOT been on the lp, do you think Sweet might have held up better? it's definitely a campy track and having 2 was probably too much. but one?

    and i do agree that some of the other tracks do lack spark. nice enough but nothing special.

    Sweet Surrender could use a little polishing of the vocal, it's buried but that does give it more of misty, bedroom ambiance. although a bit more forward could have helped

    And agree that Mirror is the star and would have been a fine direction for the entire lp.

    Do you know if she worked with those writers again on anything?

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    yes Blue - your history and insights are always enjoyed and appreciated. and of course, given your personal and professional relationship with Miss Ross, i understand that some information is not for public consumption. which is the right thing to do

    Now that said hehehehe

    i have so many disagreements with you on the music of Why lololol. and i love how we all (more or less) can share our differences. there have been times that after reading a fan's opinion on here i realize "hey - i agree with that now!" like someone one said Nathan Jones should have built up more after the bridge and really exploded with synths and more ad libs and all. i think that was the missing ingredient there

    but back to WDFFIL

    the intro to Why - yes it's a drum machine and synthesized sound. but this was the 80s. i feel it's on point. and diana's lead and background vocals. it's playful, energetic.

    Endless love - agree 100% and would love to hear what Lionel's thoughts were! lol

    Sweet Nothings vs Work that body - between the two, i think the backing track of Work is stronger but the lyric and story for Sweet is stronger (relatively). had Work NOT been on the lp, do you think Sweet might have held up better? it's definitely a campy track and having 2 was probably too much. but one?

    and i do agree that some of the other tracks do lack spark. nice enough but nothing special.

    Sweet Surrender could use a little polishing of the vocal, it's buried but that does give it more of misty, bedroom ambiance. although a bit more forward could have helped

    And agree that Mirror is the star and would have been a fine direction for the entire lp.

    Do you know if she worked with those writers again on anything?
    I don't think she did which is rather sad.

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I don't think she did which is rather sad.
    Well, she did cover Michael Sembello's "Maniac" at Central Park two years later, but that doesn't really count, does it?

  12. #62
    Your welcome Bluebrock..i look forward to reading many more.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    My main problem with the album is the bland and lacklustre production. She was quite simply too inexperienced to do this project justice. Just listen to the awful intro to Why do fools. Someone like Quincy would have polished that up and made it sound less like a demo.
    As regards the songs her solo take on Endless Love was quite simply not required. You should hear what Lionel had to say about that!
    Sweet nothings and work that body are just dreadful. Whatever made her think they would enhance the album?
    It is not all bad news. Mirror mirror is excellent. She sounds on point and we get the impression she is actually enjoying herself. Her production on this is good. You can hear the Chic influences and it is unfortunate she did not go down this particular path more.
    Sweet surrender and Think i'm in love are nice songs, but seem to lack that extra spark to ignite them into something really worth listening to. Once again i blame Ms D for not pushing herself more in the studio .
    The rest of the album contains bland fillers. Not exactly bad songs, but there is certainly something lacking in her delivery.
    The whole project was rushed out and that is how it came across. Not many people were happy with the finished project, but they had the deadline to adhere too, and they were grateful for the momentum gathered from the Chic project and Endless love that helped see it home.
    I have probably said way too much and i await the inevitable reprimand from people who think i have gone too far.
    An on point and honest assessment of the album Bluebrock. The only critique i disagree with is regarding "Work That Body". I think the song as well as "Mirror Mirror" help save the album from being a total disaster. I remember reading two awful reviews of the album at the time. One was Blues & Soul magazine, the other Black Echoes. A quote from one read "The sooner M's Ross finds a producer who knows what they are doing, the better for all concerned.......I think that almost sums it all up.

    p.s. It would be VERY interesting to know what Lionel thought of the solo "endless Love.

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    An on point and honest assessment of the album Bluebrock. The only critique i disagree with is regarding "Work That Body". I think the song as well as "Mirror Mirror" help save the album from being a total disaster. I remember reading two awful reviews of the album at the time. One was Blues & Soul magazine, the other Black Echoes. A quote from one read "The sooner M's Ross finds a producer who knows what they are doing, the better for all concerned.......I think that almost sums it all up.

    p.s. It would be VERY interesting to know what Lionel thought of the solo "endless Love.

    Wasn't the solo version of Endless Love originally going to be the follow-up single to Fools?

    Thankfully they reconsidered - it might have been very embarrassing for all concerned.

    The duet with Lionel was pop perfection - why mar it?!

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by florence View Post
    Wasn't the solo version of Endless Love originally going to be the follow-up single to Fools?

    Thankfully they reconsidered - it might have been very embarrassing for all concerned.

    The duet with Lionel was pop perfection - why mar it?!
    I never heard that Florence. If that was the case then thank heavens common sense prevailed. I was told that Mirror Mirror was briefly considered for the first single, but Diana always wanted Fools.

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I never heard that Florence. If that was the case then thank heavens common sense prevailed. I was told that Mirror Mirror was briefly considered for the first single, but Diana always wanted Fools.
    I think J. Randy might have written that the solo ENDLESS LOVE was considered for single release in his last Diana book's discography. I must say that if so, it seems rather strange. I do know that it was sent to radio on a promo single (white vinyl, I believe). My local dj had a mix of both versions that he played often.

    I didn't see the need to re-record it except for adding more name value to the album. Perhaps they couldn't license the duet version from Mercury (or Motown). Also, assuming there would eventually be a Ross RCA hits collection, they would have a version of her biggest hit.

  17. #67
    WDFFIL just falls flat for me. I'll just go ahead and say it: aint enough soul in it for my taste. "Mirror, Mirror" is the highlight. "Work That Body" is another highlight if I ignore the silly lyrics. Vocally and track wise "Work That Body" is on point. "Think I'm In Love" is nice. Maybe with some punching up it could've been a single. I like the melody. "Sweet Surrender" has grown on me tremendously over the years. I really like it, but it still comes across as beneath Diana's talents. In the hands of another artist it might have been a classic. Pretty much everything else on the album is garbage, most of all the title track which sounds like Diana doing an early version of karaoke. Probably the most soul-less song she recorded, at least up until that point. How I hate her version of that song.

  18. #68
    I still think she should've covered "There Goes My Baby" instead if she was going to do a throwback to her youth.

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I was told that Mirror Mirror was briefly considered for the first single, but Diana always wanted Fools.
    I don't know why it hasn't occurred to me before that Mirror, Mirror would have been the perfect RCA debut single. Unlike Chic, but current.

  20. #70
    Ian Phillips mentions Diana's solo Endless Love was touted as the the follow-up to Fools in his book Diana - Queen Of Motown.

    As Reese says it was issued to club and radio DJs on white vinyl.

    The song had been trimmed down with the second verse omitted.

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    WDFFIL just falls flat for me. I'll just go ahead and say it: aint enough soul in it for my taste. "Mirror, Mirror" is the highlight. "Work That Body" is another highlight if I ignore the silly lyrics. Vocally and track wise "Work That Body" is on point. "Think I'm In Love" is nice. Maybe with some punching up it could've been a single. I like the melody. "Sweet Surrender" has grown on me tremendously over the years. I really like it, but it still comes across as beneath Diana's talents. In the hands of another artist it might have been a classic. Pretty much everything else on the album is garbage, most of all the title track which sounds like Diana doing an early version of karaoke. Probably the most soul-less song she recorded, at least up until that point. How I hate her version of that song.
    I agree with everything you say except your views on Work That Body. Diana herself claimed to like the song, but i have never quite worked out if she was being serious. I am being very serious when i say i hated it then and still hate it now.

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by lucky2012 View Post
    I don't know why it hasn't occurred to me before that Mirror, Mirror would have been the perfect RCA debut single. Unlike Chic, but current.
    Agreed. I never thought about it either but that was the definitely a great debut single had it been chosen as the lead off. When you examine her RCA singles output, we should all be amazed that "Mirror, Mirror" was released at all. Later on someone thought "Pieces Of Ice" had hit written all over it.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I agree with everything you say except your views on Work That Body. Diana herself claimed to like the song, but i have never quite worked out if she was being serious. I am being very serious when i say i hated it then and still hate it now.
    I always hated it. I thought it was just a really stupid song. I think it was in the last year or two that I really started paying attention to just how great Diana sings it, the background vocalists are on point, and the music track is funky and tough. It's the lyrics that screw it all up. Had "Work That Body" had a "Physical" by Olivia N John "storyline", that song would've been a major hit. Instead it's about...exercise. But if you can't get past the lyrical content I definitely understand why the song might be hated. Thankfully I've managed to ignore the insipid lyrics and focus on the parts of the song that are top notch. Unfortunately I don't have that ability with every song.

  24. #74
    Am I The only one that likes the solo version of endless love? My theory is that she recorded it that way because that is how from that point it would be sung live in concert and she wanted everyone to get used to it.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by khansperac View Post
    Am I The only one that likes the solo version of endless love? My theory is that she recorded it that way because that is how from that point it would be sung live in concert and she wanted everyone to get used to it.
    I like the solo version. There are a few wild notes near the close but I never had a problem with it. But when she sang it in concert, her great background singer Bobby Glenn used to accompany her. After he passed, Quentin Anderson did it.

  26. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by khansperac View Post
    Am I The only one that likes the solo version of endless love? My theory is that she recorded it that way because that is how from that point it would be sung live in concert and she wanted everyone to get used to it.
    No your not the only one. I like it too! Always have.

  27. #77
    I can honestly say with hand on heart that Diana's solo version of "Endless Love" is in my humble opinion the worst vocal/recording of her ENTIRE career. That includes "We Are The Children" and "Girls" lol. That floating background flute sounds like something you would hear in an elevator and her voice floats off key more then once.. Just dreadful.
    Having said that, if there are fans do like it then it was not a total waste of time.

  28. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by khansperac View Post
    Am I The only one that likes the solo version of endless love? My theory is that she recorded it that way because that is how from that point it would be sung live in concert and she wanted everyone to get used to it.
    It's okay. But for me it's forgettable. I so often forget it's on that album. I think it pales in comparison to the original and thus it's hard for me to get into.

  29. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by captainjames View Post
    Does anyone know who sings background with Diana on this song ? I rate it as one of the best songs she recorded as a a solo.
    Nice song. It sounds like she was begging, but it was too late! Mr. Gordy said go and don't come back after leaving Motown!

  30. #80
    so bitter and scarey

  31. #81
    The duet Endless Love is in the classic songs of all time on many lists. I agree, the solo version pales in comparison; I never listen to it.

  32. #82
    I love "One More Chance" and most anything Ross did with Masser at the helm. I love her way with a ballad, and how Masser brought out the actress in her on several of his compositions. There's nothing casual or throwaway about her performance.

    I bet Diane could have done some of the songs that Diane Warren wrote for Cher, and done them beautifully. I really think she excels at the "big ballad" type of number, especially at this point in her career.

    I have never really listened to Ross' RCA output, though I did buy all the expanded editions when they were on sale at Funkytown Grooves. They're all reasonably priced and were very well mastered, but they include in some cases so many versions of the same song, that I've tended to want to cut them off before the end of the CD. Funkytown made the same mistake with some of Dionne Warwick's later output. One CD I bought from them has that awful "Got a Date" I think in five different versions on one CD. Made me want the un-expanded edition!

    But regarding the RCA albums, I will have to go back and give "Why Do Fools Fall in Love" another listen.

  33. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Nice song. It sounds like she was begging, but it was too late! Mr. Gordy said go and don't come back after leaving Motown!
    Okay, Marv2, I know you don't like the lady but I hope you are joking because that is just plain silly...and besides she did come back later anyway, didn't she? I mean, I'm just sayin'...!

  34. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    The duet Endless Love is in the classic songs of all time on many lists. I agree, the solo version pales in comparison; I never listen to it.
    Interesting; I find the duet excellent but prefer the solo version. I think it is one of Diana's many 'good Lord the lady can sing!' performances.

  35. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by khansperac View Post
    Am I The only one that likes the solo version of endless love? My theory is that she recorded it that way because that is how from that point it would be sung live in concert and she wanted everyone to get used to it.
    NO! I LOVE it! See my reply to JRob -

  36. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    Okay, Marv2, I know you don't like the lady but I hope you are joking because that is just plain silly...and besides she did come back later anyway, didn't she? I mean, I'm just sayin'...!
    She recorded it while still at Motown so everything he eludes to with Diana is poison.

  37. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    Okay, Marv2, I know you don't like the lady but I hope you are joking because that is just plain silly...and besides she did come back later anyway, didn't she? I mean, I'm just sayin'...!
    He wasn't there. LOL!

  38. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    He wasn't there. LOL!
    OK! I know enough to leave this one alone!

  39. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    OK! I know enough to leave this one alone!
    And I recall Susaye once saying on here that Marv wasn’t there either

  40. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    I love "One More Chance" and most anything Ross did with Masser at the helm. I love her way with a ballad, and how Masser brought out the actress in her on several of his compositions. There's nothing casual or throwaway about her performance.

    I bet Diane could have done some of the songs that Diane Warren wrote for Cher, and done them beautifully. I really think she excels at the "big ballad" type of number, especially at this point in her career.

    I have never really listened to Ross' RCA output, though I did buy all the expanded editions when they were on sale at Funkytown Grooves. They're all reasonably priced and were very well mastered, but they include in some cases so many versions of the same song, that I've tended to want to cut them off before the end of the CD. Funkytown made the same mistake with some of Dionne Warwick's later output. One CD I bought from them has that awful "Got a Date" I think in five different versions on one CD. Made me want the un-expanded edition!

    But regarding the RCA albums, I will have to go back and give "Why Do Fools Fall in Love" another listen.
    Just going off topic briefly i have to say i totally agree with you with regards to Dionne's "got a date" expanded edition. It was a bad enough album to begin with, but all those additional mixes made it a very difficult listening experience. Whatever was Luther thinking?
    As regards Diana's expanded rca editions i found them to be for the most part rather tedious. Too many mixes of the same songs in many cases.
    Good luck with listening to "Why do fools". You may well need it!

  41. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Nice song. It sounds like she was begging, but it was too late! Mr. Gordy said go and don't come back after leaving Motown!
    I think you're confusing Diana with Mary on this one Marv. Diana was still at Motown when she recorded "One More Chance", not RCA. If Gordy could've afforded to pay her what RCA was offering her, she never would've left and he would've given her the money to stay. From a business standpoint he'd have to be the biggest idiot in music to not give a damn and let her walk out the door. Instead it was Mary that was shown the door and told to go and not come back. She was even given the masters to her latest recordings. Gordy just didn't care at that point when it came to Mary. Diana was always a different story. Let's not re-write history here.

  42. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I think you're confusing Diana with Mary on this one Marv. Diana was still at Motown when she recorded "One More Chance", not RCA. If Gordy could've afforded to pay her what RCA was offering her, she never would've left and he would've given her the money to stay. From a business standpoint he'd have to be the biggest idiot in music to not give a damn and let her walk out the door. Instead it was Mary that was shown the door and told to go and not come back. She was even given the masters to her latest recordings. Gordy just didn't care at that point when it came to Mary. Diana was always a different story. Let's not re-write history here.
    Well said. The voice of reason on this forum.

  43. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    I love "One More Chance" and most anything Ross did with Masser at the helm. I love her way with a ballad, and how Masser brought out the actress in her on several of his compositions. There's nothing casual or throwaway about her performance.

    I bet Diane could have done some of the songs that Diane Warren wrote for Cher, and done them beautifully. I really think she excels at the "big ballad" type of number, especially at this point in her career.
    I agree with all points. At Motown I think A&S, Masser, Perry and Quincy mastered producing Diana Ross. While Diana recorded a few cuts that rank among my fav Diana songs of all time (such as "Swept Away", "Missing You", "Mirror, Mirror" and a couple of others) I don't think anyone mastered the Ross voice at RCA, with Lionel Richie being an exception, but that was one song.

    Ross' RCA problem (aside from Diana being in charge of her own creative output...yikes!) was that she kept attempting to compete with the new crop of folks coming up in the industry. She was trying hard to hold onto her pop crown but nobody was here for it, not only because the music mostly sucked (again..."Pieces of Ice"...) but also because a lot of it seemed beneath where Diana Ross, aged late 30s early 40s, should've been headed. She was too old for pop confections or looking for a rock edge. The rock edge worked for Tina Turner because one can argue that Tina was even more rock and roll than she was soul/pop during her entire career, so it was easy for people to buy it.

    Diana's biggest hits as a solo have almost exclusively been ballads. Hooking back up with Masser or recording Warren compositions would've been the thing that kept Ross relevant as the 80s moved on. Not that she couldn't have taken chances on other producers also, but I think Masser and Warren were safe bets.

  44. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    Interesting; I find the duet excellent but prefer the solo version. I think it is one of Diana's many 'good Lord the lady can sing!' performances.
    It's funny, but this is my one and only never thought Diana could sound this bad songs.............I'm mighty pleased there is only one.

  45. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I agree with all points. At Motown I think A&S, Masser, Perry and Quincy mastered producing Diana Ross. While Diana recorded a few cuts that rank among my fav Diana songs of all time (such as "Swept Away", "Missing You", "Mirror, Mirror" and a couple of others) I don't think anyone mastered the Ross voice at RCA, with Lionel Richie being an exception, but that was one song.

    Ross' RCA problem (aside from Diana being in charge of her own creative output...yikes!) was that she kept attempting to compete with the new crop of folks coming up in the industry. She was trying hard to hold onto her pop crown but nobody was here for it, not only because the music mostly sucked (again..."Pieces of Ice"...) but also because a lot of it seemed beneath where Diana Ross, aged late 30s early 40s, should've been headed. She was too old for pop confections or looking for a rock edge. The rock edge worked for Tina Turner because one can argue that Tina was even more rock and roll than she was soul/pop during her entire career, so it was easy for people to buy it.

    Diana's biggest hits as a solo have almost exclusively been ballads. Hooking back up with Masser or recording Warren compositions would've been the thing that kept Ross relevant as the 80s moved on. Not that she couldn't have taken chances on other producers also, but I think Masser and Warren were safe bets.
    i think the biggest problem was as you said, Diana being in charge of Diana. Berry would often push her to do things she was apprehensive about or didn't want to do. but she did them 1) because he said so and 2) because he believed in her.

    there are moments during the RCA period that hint at what could have been:

    Mirror mirror - she could have broadened her appeal with a more rock sound. but a rock sound done A La Diana. she shouldn't have to replicate someone else, she was enough of a force in music that she could lead the way. This sound is something she should have explored. Swept Away (although too far after Mirror) was a good continuation of this

    Touch by touch - while i don't think this would ever be the highlight of a Diana discography, it is catchy and fun. sort of the definition of 80s pop.

    ross 83 - the Gary Katz stuff is ok. not the most remarkable music for diana but it works. however her vocals are just not exciting enough. she just sort of seems a bit bored with it all

    Missing You - wonderful ballad. imagine if this thought and care had been applied to In Your Arms.

  46. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    there are moments during the RCA period that hint at what could have been:
    Mirror mirror - she could have broadened her appeal with a more rock sound. but a rock sound done A La Diana. she shouldn't have to replicate someone else, she was enough of a force in music that she could lead the way. This sound is something she should have explored. Swept Away (although too far after Mirror) was a good continuation
    I disagree. The odd rock oriented song Like "Mirror Mirror or "Swept Away is fine but for me that is not Diana's essence and most certainly not what made her famous in the first place. Part of what made the rca years such a barren period for hit singles, particularly after 84 was that with the exception of "Missing You and "Chain reaction she rarely recorded anything that could be considered soulful pop. That was and still is Diana's forte.

  47. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I disagree. The odd rock oriented song Like "Mirror Mirror or "Swept Away is fine but for me that is not Diana's essence and most certainly not what made her famous in the first place. Part of what made the rca years such a barren period for hit singles, particularly after 84 was that with the exception of "Missing You and "Chain reaction she rarely recorded anything that could be considered soulful pop. That was and still is Diana's forte.
    Even Chain Reaction flopped in the U.S.

  48. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Even Chain Reaction flopped in the U.S.
    yeah so did Bad Weather............... its a shame.

  49. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by captainjames View Post
    yeah so did Bad Weather............... its a shame.
    I'm not sure what Bad Weather has to do with this thread,but since you mentioned it. Neither Bad Weather or Chain Reaction was played on the radio in America.
    Last edited by marv2; 10-01-2019 at 08:27 PM.

  50. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by captainjames View Post
    yeah so did Bad Weather............... its a shame.
    "It's A Shame" was a much better record than "Chain Reaction". It also was a hit! "Chain Reaction" was a flop......in America.

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