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  1. #1

    Phil Spector - Part D - "Philles' Subsidiary Labels"

    In 1964, when Philles Records was feeling the backlash from the industry's resentment toward Phil Spector for playing by his own rules, and suffering from its still-top-notch releases floundering on the charts, Phil created a diversion for himself by setting up 4 new record labels under the Philles umbrella. Those labels were:

    ANNETTE RECORDS (named after Phil's first wife, Annette Mearer);

    PHIL SPECTOR RECORDS;

    SHIRLEY RECORDS (named after Phil's sister); and

    PHI-DAN RECORDS (named after, and co-owned with, Danny Davis -- Phil's A&R/Promotions man. Phil had very little to do with the music on this label.)

    The cream-of-the-crop material was reserved for Philles, as always, but Phil was hoping to get a few hits on the new labels as a diversion from the stress he was experiencing at Philles. When all of the releases bombed on the new labels, Phil just wrote them off by admitting that he didn't really care about the music on those labels anyway. As can be heard, the production qualities on the new labels were a far cry from the masterpieces that we music lovers had come to expect from Phil's Philles productions, yet some fans have embraced these subsidiary labels and have paid big bucks for the exhorbitant prices that these ever-rare titles command.


    1964
    ANNETTE RECORDS

    ANNETTE 1000 (Released 3/1964)
    BONNIE JO MASON (Cher)
    "Ringo, I Love You"
    (P. Spector - P. Case - V. Poncia - P. Andreoli)
    Producer: Phil Spector
    https://youtu.be/ckjuH74v9jU
    b/w
    "Beatle Blues" (Instrumental)
    (Annette Lee Spector)
    Producer: Phil Spector
    https://youtu.be/w8shrcRZVKk

    ANNETTE 1001 (Released 1964)
    GENE TOONE & THE BLAZERS
    "You're My Baby"
    (P. Spector - V. Poncia - P. Andreoli)
    Producer: Phil Spector
    Arranger: Arnold Goland
    https://youtu.be/t63cEcTP0T0
    b/w
    "Jose"
    (Mearer)
    Producer: Phil Spector
    NO AUDIO CLIP AVAILABLE

    ANNETTE 1002 (1964)
    HARVEY & DOC WITH THE DWELLERS (Phil Spector & Doc Pomus)
    "Oh Baby"
    (Harvey)
    https://youtu.be/ewcGA6BpIvA
    b/w
    "Uncle Kev" (Instrumental)
    (Mearer)
    https://youtu.be/IIUE80xlJys


    1964
    PHIL SPECTOR RECORDS

    Phil Spector 1 (1964)
    VERONICA
    "So Young"
    (Tyrus)
    Producer: Phil Spector
    https://youtu.be/WzwcnLFxK4c
    b/w
    "Larry L." (Instrumental)
    (Spector)
    https://youtu.be/3cOdcLZdXEI

    Phil Spector 2 (Released 1964)
    VERONICA
    "Why Don't They Let Us Fall In Love"
    (Spector - Greenwhich - Barry)
    Producer: Phil Spector
    https://youtu.be/ymssSLJtsuQ
    b/w
    "Chubby Danny D." (Inst.)
    (Spector)
    Producer: Phil Spector
    https://youtu.be/leFrTtPhqzc


    1964
    SHIRLEY RECORDS

    Shirley 500 (Released 1964)
    THE TREASURES Featuring Pete Anders
    "Hold Me Tight"
    (Lennon - McCartney)
    https://youtu.be/OimmfPcTVxY
    b/w
    "Pete Meets Vinnie" (Instrumental)
    (Mearer)
    Producer: Phil Spector
    NO AUDIO CLIP AVAILABLE


    1965
    PHI-DAN RECORDS

    PHI-DAN 5000 (Released 1965)
    FLORENCE DeVORE
    "Kiss Me Now (Don't Kiss Me Later)"
    (Cooper - Susser)
    Producers: Cooper - Susser - Silberstein
    https://youtu.be/PF5rCpD8r40
    b/w
    "We're Not Old Enough"
    (Cooper - Susser - Pinter)
    Producers: Cooper - Susser - Silberstein
    https://youtu.be/AxdSmgWp-Nc


    PHI-DAN 5001 (Released 1965)
    BETTY WILLIS
    "Act Naturally"
    (Buck Owens)
    Producer: Leon Russell
    https://youtu.be/F5NShyAiE1I
    b/w
    "Soul"
    (Higgins)
    Producer: Leon Russell
    NO AUDIO CLIP

    PHI-DAN 5002 (No Information Available)

    PHI-DAN 5003 (No Information Available)

    PHI-DAN 5004 (No Information Available)

    PHI-DAN 5005 (Released 1965)
    BONNIE & THE TREASURES
    "Home Of The Brave"
    (B. Mann - C. Weill)
    Producer: Jerry Riopell
    https://youtu.be/7nKK0bOnAZI
    b/w
    "Our Song"
    (Jerry Riopell)
    Producer: Jerry Riopell
    https://youtu.be/X088uslfEOI

    PHI-DAN 5006 (Released 1965)
    AL DELORY
    "Yesterday"
    (J. Lennon - P. McCartney)
    Producer: Atlas Artists Productions
    https://youtu.be/CkuXmIFAupk
    b/w
    "Traffic Jam"
    (McRae-Shaw)
    Producer: Atlas Artists Productions
    NO AUDIO CLIP AVAILABLE

    PHI-DAN 5007 (Released 1965)
    GEORGE McCANNON III
    "You Can't Grow Peaches On A Cherry Tree"
    (E. Levitt - A. Gargoni)
    Producers: P. Anders - V. Poncia
    https://youtu.be/-zvG_nFfqgk
    b/w
    "Seven Million People"
    (H. Greenfield - K. Miller)
    Producers: P. Anders - V. Poncia
    https://youtu.be/awtC27Kugts

    PHI-DAN 5008 (Released 1965)
    THE LOVELITES
    "(When) I Get Scared"
    (V. Poncia - P. Andreoli - D. Pomuz)
    Producers: P. Anders - V. Poncia
    https://youtu.be/x_9-1Dn9cds
    b/w
    "Malady" (Instrumental)
    (Gelfand)
    Producers: P. Anders - V. Poncia
    https://youtu.be/B3ZMlwkNwVQ

    PHI-DAN 5009 (Released 1965)
    IKETTES
    "What'cha Gonna Do (When I Leave You)"
    (Ike Turner)
    Producer: Ike Turner
    https://youtu.be/P4fIsz3Z22U
    b/w
    "Down Down"
    (Ike Turner)
    Producer: Ike Turner
    https://youtu.be/QoJhLl5nyvE

    PHI-DAN 5010 (Released 1965)
    SUGAR PLUMS
    "Lovers Wonderland"
    (G. Garfield - P. Botkin, Jr. - J. Cole)
    Producer: Botkin - Garield
    https://youtu.be/2-Wqwb30TA0
    b/w
    "Sugar Plum Blues"
    (Uncredited)
    Producers: Botkin - Garfield
    NO AUDIO CLIP AVAILABLE
    Last edited by Philles/Motown Gary; 09-07-2019 at 05:44 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary View Post
    In 1964, when Philles Records was feeling the backlash from the industry's resentment toward Phil Spector for playing by his own rules, and suffering from its still-top-notch releases floundering on the charts, Phil created a diversion for himself by setting up 4 new record labels under the Philles umbrella. Those labels were:

    ANNETTE RECORDS (named after Phil's first wife, Annette Mearer);

    PHIL SPECTOR RECORDS;

    SHIRLEY RECORDS (named after Phil's sister); and

    PHI-DAN RECORDS (named after, and co-owned with, Danny Davis -- Phil's A&R/Promotions man. Phil had very little to do with the music on this label.)

    The cream-of-the-crop material was reserved for Philles, as always, but Phil was hoping to get a few hits on the new labels as a diversion from the stress he was experiencing at Philles. When all of the releases bombed on the new labels, Phil just wrote them off by admitting that he didn't really care about the music on those labels anyway. As can be heard, the production qualities on the new labels were a far cry from the masterpieces that we music lovers had come to expect from Phil's Philles productions, yet some fans have embraced these subsidiary labels and have paid big bucks for the exhorbitant prices that these ever-rare titles command.

    PHI-DAN 5001 (Released 1965)
    BETTY WILLIS
    "Act Naturally"
    (Buck Owens)
    Producer: Leon Russell
    https://youtu.be/F5NShyAiE
    Lots of great stuff once again Gary . It'll take some time for me to properly digest this catalogue , but it will be time enjoyably spent , as I look forward to getting to know each of these .
    Of course first off, I immediately noticed this Buck Owens penned tune appearing here - myself having spent many a hot summer day and night in cut-off genes and barefoot while growing up in Bakersfield Calif.



    I can't help but wonder if Betty having such a similar voice/style to Tina Turner's , didn't hurt both in the having a distinctive sound department.

    And to have this record produced by Leon Russell ! Phil was sure surrounded by young new emerging talent ( Bob Crewe, Nillson).

    If I may stray from topic for a minute. In high school my best buddy was a Leon Russell devotee so I couldn't escape becoming a fan myself. Several years ago, at the Kern County Fair ( Bakersfield) in fact, Leon Russel was , to my delight, appearing there on a free stage. That same night Bruce Hornsby was appearing at the larger paid arena,he was still hot then with THE WAY IT IS ... So I was enjoying Leon's show , but what a surprise when after Bruce finished his show, he raced over to the free stage so he could jam there with Leon. Very special, witnessing this rare moment , two artists taking the opportunity to share some impromptu comradery, just because they wanted to.

    OK next I want to hear BEATLE BLUES and RINGO I LOVE YOU ! because it seems intriguing ( and to tie it all in , the Beatles of course also recorded ACT NATURALLY)
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 09-10-2019 at 03:29 AM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    Lots of great stuff once again Gary . It'll take some time for me to properly digest this catalogue , but it will be time enjoyably spent , as I look forward to getting to know each of these .
    Of course first off, I immediately noticed this Buck Owens penned tune appearing here - myself having spent many a hot summer day and night in cut-off genes and barefoot while growing up in Bakersfield Calif.



    I can't help but wonder if Betty having such a similar voice/style to Tina Turner's , didn't hurt both in the having a distinctive sound department.

    And to have this record produced by Leon Russell ! Phil was sure surrounded by young new emerging talent ( Bob Crewe, Nillson).

    If I may stray from topic for a minute. In high school my best buddy was a Leon Russell devotee so I couldn't escape becoming a fan myself. Several years ago, at the Kern County Fair ( Bakersfield) in fact, Leon Russel was , to my delight, appearing there on a free stage. That same night Bruce Hornsby was appearing at the larger paid arena,he was still hot then with THE WAY IT IS ... So I was enjoying Leon's show , but what a surprise when after Bruce finished his show, he raced over to the free stage so he could jam there with Leon. Very special, witnessing this rare moment , two artists taking the opportunity to share some impromptu comradery, just because they wanted to.

    OK next I want to hear BEATLE BLUES and RINGO I LOVE YOU ! because it seems intriguing ( and to tie it all in , the Beatles of course also recorded ACT NATURALLY)
    Thanks, John! I'm glad you're enjoying it!

    You grew up running barefoot in Bakersfield, CA, eh? I have a 2013 CD of newly-recorded music by Vince Gill and Steel Guitarist Paul Franklin titled "Bakersfield" consisting of cover songs originally recorded by Buck Owens and Merle Haggard. It's got a lot of country-swing tunes which I really love, and, as always, Vince performs them great! Amazon customer reviewers gave more than 400 positive reviews to back it up. Good stuff, for sure!

    I must admit that, although I specialize in Philles Records, the music on some of those subsidiary labels is new to me. Thanks to Phil's "Rare Masters" albums, I was already familiar with The Treasures and Betty Willis, and, of course, Veronica (The Ronettes), and a couple of the others including Cher and Al DeLory. Other tracks, like Harvey & Doc's "Oh Baby" were new to me. I still can't believe that Phil could resort to that.

    Cool story about Bruce Hornsby rushing over to join Leon on stage as soon as Bruce's show was over. Speaking of Leon Russell, and because you're new to Philles, did you know that that's Leon playing those amazing piano passages on Darlene Love's "Christmas (Baby Please Come Home)"? The part near the end, starting with the "Please (please)" call-and-response between Darlene and the back-up choir through the end of the fade-out, is fantastic! When Phil heard what Leon was playing at the recording session, he whipped out his checkbook on the spot and wrote out a check to Leon for $50 as a bonus! That's how impressed Phil was with Leon's performance! (Not particularly fair to the other members of The Wrecking Crew who were working just as hard, but Leon's performance was pretty darned incredible!)

    Good point regarding Betty and Tina. Having similar voices may have hurt Betty's career, but it sure didn't affect Tina's!

    I used to hate Cher's tribute to Ringo, but, I've gotta admit, it's grown on me. It just doesn't sound like a Phil Spector record to me, nor do most of the records on the subsidiary labels. Lotsa luck finding a copy -- especially in NM condition. Even the VG copies are rare and fetch a small fortune to purchase. In fact, the NM copy shown in the YouTube link is the FIRST and ONLY copy I've ever seen that looks new. They're usually the stock copy on the solid-red Annette label looking VERY used.
    Last edited by Philles/Motown Gary; 09-10-2019 at 12:48 PM.

  4. #4
    Hi Gary!

    Yes I grew up in an area and in an era where going barefoot (even into stores (!)) was viewed as perfectly normal. In fact when we got our first super fancy indoor (air conditioned!) mall, we local kids thought nothing of riding our bikes over there and parading along the buffed and glistening tiled corridors shoeless . hahaha!

    Gary I always enjoy the way you enrich my observations with further commentary, like the way Phil Spector appreciated Leon Russell and recognized his talent right off, and that's Leon tinkering away on the ivories ( sounding a little Liberace!) creating the finale on Darlene's CHRISTMAS.

    So collectively , these off-projects on these secondary labels never quite caught your fancy eh? I'd be curious which of them , if any, were pleasant surprises for you? And which of them do you find the most noteworthy?

    For instance , this secret CHER record that nevertheless took you some time to warm up to:

    1964
    ANNETTE RECORDS

    ANNETTE 1000 (Released 3/1964)
    BONNIE JO MASON (Cher)
    "Ringo, I Love You"
    (P. Spector - P. Case - V. Poncia - P. Andreoli)
    Producer: Phil Spector
    https://youtu.be/ckjuH74v9jU
    b/w
    "Beatle Blues" (Instrumental)
    (Annette Lee Spector)
    Producer: Phil Spector
    https://youtu.be/w8shrcRZVKk
    Ha ha I can kind of see why
    "more than anything , I want to wear your ring, oh Ringo"
    It's a fun idea , playing off recognizable Beatles lines ,but not properly executed , and my thought upon first listening back then likely would've been , "well one thing for sure , that singer doesn't have much of a future." lol!

    However I do like the instrumental song on the B-side:



    Sort of a spirited sped up version of MONSTER MASH and can we imagine that's perhaps Leon we hear tinkering away on it?
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 09-11-2019 at 02:09 AM.

  5. #5
    Hi John!

    I love your barefoot childhood and your delightful "Mayberry" way of life which you described so eloquently! Riding your bikes all over town on your way to the "super-fancy indoor air-coditioned mall" is very similar to my childhood, except I lived out in the country and my sister and I would ride our bikes over to my grandparent's everyday, as their farm was just a mile away from ours. My cousins would sometimes be at my grandmother's visiting, so it was always fun. Your childhood sounds just as fun and memorable as mine, Opie! HaHa!!!

    Yeah, Leon does indeed sound kinda "Liberace-ish" on Darlene's "Christmas (Baby Please Come Home)", doesn't he! You hit the nail right on the head when you commented on Phil surrounding himself with great musicians. Did you know that Glen Campbell was one of Phil's Wrecking Crew musicians at Gold Star? Yep, he was one of Phil's 4-6 guitar players, depending on the song at hand.

    No, Phil's subsidiary labels never quite managed to trip my trigger. The tracks that captured my fancy the most were Veronica's (The Ronettes) "Why Don't They Let Us Fall In Love" and "So Young"; The Treasures "Hold Me Tight"; Gene Toone & The Blazers' "You're My Baby"; Al DeLory "Yesterday"; Bonnie & The Treasures "Home Of The Brave", its B-side instrumental "Our Song", and, as mentioned, Cher's "Ringo I Love You" which has grown on me in a light, fun kind of way, and its B-side instrumental, "Beatle Blues." BTW, you're right to describe the latter as a speeded-up version of "Monster Mash". I knew it sounded similiar to another record, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it until you said it! Thanks, Boog!

    You know, Cher's voice fit the Wall Of Sound style beautifully, although we didn't find that out until AFTER Phil fired Sonny for telling him what the new DJs were saying about Phil's productions sounding old. (Talk about shooting the messenger!) As it turned out, Sonny paid close attention to Phil's overdubbing techniques at Gold Star. When Sonny & Cher signed with Atco/Atlantic Records, Sonny produced their first album which included their first hit "I Got You Babe". Cher's voice fit the Philles-style Wall Of Sound like hand-in-glove -- especially on this personal favorite of mine, "Just You" which, BTW, is a hell of a lot better than Phil's production of "Ringo I Love You"!

    CHER
    "Just You"
    https://youtu.be/Ldv9rXHvrOw

    "Just You" would have fit right at home on the Philles label. Sonny kept begging Phil to produce Cher for Philles, but Phil kept refusing on the grounds that Cher's voice was too low and not commercial. Boy, did Sonny & Cher prove Phil wrong!
    Last edited by Philles/Motown Gary; 09-11-2019 at 04:26 AM.

  6. #6
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    Clearly, "Why Don't They Let Us Fall In Love" (really The Ronettes), and "Home Of The Brave" by Bonnie and The Treasures, should have been released on Philles Records. The Lovelites' "When I Get Scared", The Sugar Plums' "Lovers' Wonderland", and the Florence Devore are also good. "You're My Baby" by Gene Toones was a well-written song, but the recording's vocal and mixing could have been done a lot better. It might have been better to give that one to Darlene Love, or her with a group, and release it on Philles.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by robb_k View Post
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    Clearly, "Why Don't They Let Us Fall In Love" (really The Ronettes), and "Home Of The Brave" by Bonnie and The Treasures, should have been released on Philles Records. The Lovelites' "When I Get Scared", The Sugar Plums' "Lovers' Wonderland", and the Florence Devore are also good. "You're My Baby" by Gene Toones was a well-written song, but the recording's vocal and mixing could have been done a lot better. It might have been better to give that one to Darlene Love, or her with a group, and release it on Philles.
    Since Robb you and Gary both rate WHY DON'T THEY LET US FALL IN LOVE as being amongst the cream of the crop of the releases from these alternate labels ,
    I think we should give it a listen:



    Very very nice. At times I'm reminded of CHAPEL OF LOVE. A keeper for sure.

  8. #8
    Philles/Motown Gary:




    You know, Cher's voice fit the Wall Of Sound style beautifully, although we didn't find that out until AFTER Phil fired Sonny for telling him what the new DJs were saying about Phil's productions sounding old. (Talk about shooting the messenger!) As it turned out, Sonny paid close attention to Phil's overdubbing techniques at Gold Star. When Sonny & Cher signed with Atco/Atlantic Records, Sonny produced their first album which included their first hit "I Got You Babe". Cher's voice fit the Philles-style Wall Of Sound like hand-in-glove -- especially on this personal favorite of mine, "Just You" which, BTW, is a hell of a lot better than Phil's production of "Ringo I Love You"!

    CHER
    "Just You"
    https://youtu.be/Ldv9rXHvrOw

    "Just You" would have fit right at home on the Philles label. Sonny kept begging Phil to produce Cher for Philles, but Phil kept refusing on the grounds that Cher's voice was too low and not commercial. Boy, did Sonny & Cher prove Phil wrong!
    I have to admit this strikes me as strange, if I have it right: Radio DJs are telling Sonny Bono that Spector's sound is getting stale. He tells Spector this and for some reason , Spector responds by firing Bono??
    But here's what I really don't understand, if the DJs are telling Bono that the sound is getting old , why in the world would he then bother to duplicate that sound as a means for breaking hits for him and Cher??



    But duplicate it , he did! Splendidly. A top twenty hit. (recorded at Gold Star?)
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 09-12-2019 at 02:04 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    I have to admit this strikes me as strange, if I have it right: Radio DJs are telling Sonny Bono that Spector's sound is getting stale. He tells Spector this and for some reason , Spector responds by firing Bono??
    But here's what I really don't understand, if the DJs are telling Bono that the sound is getting old , why in the world would he then bother to duplicate that sound as a means for breaking hits for him and Cher??



    But duplicate it , he did! Splendidly. A top twenty hit. (recorded at Gold Star?)
    Why, hello there, Boog! You know, that never occurred to me, but you've raised an interesting question. Why WOULD Sonny duplicate Phil's sound if the DJ's were tired if it? By the time Sonny & Cher's first LP, "Look At Us", was released in 1965, Phil's Wall Of Sound had become overdone in a shroud of weirdness with echoed bongos and what have you as can be heard in The Ronettes "Born To Be Together" and "Is This What I Get For Loving You". Mind you, they're both great records which I loved and still do, but they were getting over the top with the echo. Sonny, on the other hand, avoided the excess, keeping the Wall Of Sound at the level that made Philles famous in the first place and, as you pointed out, "splendidly". And, yes, John, at Gold Star with Phil's Wrecking Crew on hand.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    Since Robb you and Gary both rate WHY DON'T THEY LET US FALL IN LOVE as being amongst the cream of the crop of the releases from these alternate labels ,
    I think we should give it a listen:



    Very very nice. At times I'm reminded of CHAPEL OF LOVE. A keeper for sure.
    John, at the time, back in 1964, I wasn't aware of Veronica's (The Ronettes') "Why Don't They Let Us Fall In Love" 45 on the Phil Spector label. I discovered it on Phil's "Rare Masters (Vol. 1)" LP which he released on his new Phil Spector International label from the U.K. in 1976. It was the 3rd track on Side 1 and what a thrill it was! I'll be covering Phil's new label in depth later. First, I need to cover his stint at A&M Records and then his work at Apple Records, followed by his time at Warner-Spector Records, and then Phil Spector International which included magnificent expanded reissues of Philles product as well as all-new recordings. I'm intending for the Phil Spector threads to go out with a bang via Phil Spector International!
    Last edited by Philles/Motown Gary; 09-12-2019 at 03:09 AM.

  11. #11
    That Harvey & Doc single has got to be one of the worst records I've ever heard.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    That Harvey & Doc single has got to be one of the worst records I've ever heard.
    Oh, I know, 144man. That thing is God-awful! Phil had to have done it as a joke and/or as a tax write-off. It sure wasn't for music quality!

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    That Harvey & Doc single has got to be one of the worst records I've ever heard.


    Ha ha , this has reminded me of:

  14. #14

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    Good one, Boogie!

  16. #16
    Ha !

    OK something else, back to this one:



    At all similar to:

  17. #17
    and especially the beginning.....



    In thinking about this a bit more, Gary, you've actually already discussed some of why Sonny might've taken on the Wall Of Sound sound even though it was betting against the odds.

    Perhaps Sonny wanted to show Phil, that if this guy you've dismissed so readily tried , he could create the same sound as him and just as good, maybe better!
    And he wanted to apply Cher's voice to that sound to prove to Phil that the two did fit together well.
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 09-14-2019 at 01:41 AM.

  18. #18
    also,

    Here's BEATLE BLUES:



    by Bonnie Jo Mason

  19. #19
    and here's

    UNCLE KEV:



    by Harvey and Doc with the Dwellers.


    ???? ( I think the UNCLE KEV youtube post has the wrong song )
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 09-14-2019 at 02:04 AM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    and here's

    UNCLE KEV:



    by Harvey and Doc with the Dwellers.


    ???? ( I think the UNCLE KEV youtube post has the wrong song )
    By George, you're right, John! I had not noticed that. The excellent jazz and blues Philles B-sides aside, some of those Philles B-side instrumentals all sound alike to me. These two are the same identical song! I wonder which one is the fraud? My guess is that the Bonnie Jo Mason B-side is the real deal. "Uncle Kev" is surely the one that the YouTube poster screwed up. Boy, for being only 4 years younger than me, you surely have a sharp mind, son! HaHa!!!

  21. #21
    I love the way the lead singer sounds like she's losing her marbles at the the end of "Down Down". I wonder who the lead was in this incarnation of the Ikettes.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    I love the way the lead singer sounds like she's losing her marbles at the the end of "Down Down". I wonder who the lead was in this incarnation of the Ikettes.
    Ha! Yeah, she's definitely reminiscent of Millie Jackson's 'mistress' character in "I Still Love You (You Still Love Me)" from her "Still Caught Up" album. I Googled the Ikettes' lead singer in 1965, the year in which "Down, Down" was released on Phi-Dan. From what I could gather, the lead singer was Flora Williams (aka Delores Johnson). However, various Googlings provided discrepancies regarding the Ikettes, one claiming that the group was with Modern Records from 1964-1966 when it's a known fact they were with Phi-Dan in 1965. 144man, I think you should ask someone who is a fan of The Ikettes who could better answer your question, as I really don't know that much about them.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary View Post
    Ha! Yeah, she's definitely reminiscent of Millie Jackson's 'mistress' character in "I Still Love You (You Still Love Me)" from her "Still Caught Up" album. I Googled the Ikettes' lead singer in 1965, the year in which "Down, Down" was released on Phi-Dan. From what I could gather, the lead singer was Flora Williams (aka Delores Johnson). However, various Googlings provided discrepancies regarding the Ikettes, one claiming that the group was with Modern Records from 1964-1966 when it's a known fact they were with Phi-Dan in 1965. 144man, I think you should ask someone who is a fan of The Ikettes who could better answer your question, as I really don't know that much about them.
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    Record companies often record a larger amount of recordings by an artist or group, than they can release at one time, and release them periodically, after the previous release's sales has dropped to almost nothing. Based on what we know, it appears that The Ikettes signed with Modern in late 1964, and left for Phi-Dan in late 1965. They recorded at least enough cuts for a few (5) singles which were released starting in late 1964, continuing through 1965, and the last occurring all the way into early 1966. So, a couple of their Modern 45s were released after they signed with Phil Spector's Phi-Dan Records, to go along with Ike & Tina's signing with Philles.

    Interesting that their Phi-Dan release not only didn't chart, but sold almost nothing; while the two last Modern Ikettes' releases ("Lonely For You", and "Not That I Recall",(based on Modern's previous relationship with distributors after The Ikettes' regional hits, "I'm So Thankful, Peaches and Cream, and "Fine,Fine,Fine"), sold fairly well. And, "Lonely For You" not only charted, but was also a regional hit.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by robb_k View Post
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    Record companies often record a larger amount of recordings by an artist or group, than they can release at one time, and release them periodically, after the previous release's sales has dropped to almost nothing. Based on what we know, it appears that The Ikettes signed with Modern in late 1964, and left for Phi-Dan in late 1965. They recorded at least enough cuts for a few (5) singles which were released starting in late 1964, continuing through 1965, and the last occurring all the way into early 1966. So, a couple of their Modern 45s were released after they signed with Phil Spector's Phi-Dan Records, to go along with Ike & Tina's signing with Philles.

    Interesting that their Phi-Dan release not only didn't chart, but sold almost nothing; while the two last Modern Ikettes' releases ("Lonely For You", and "Not That I Recall",(based on Modern's previous relationship with distributors after The Ikettes' regional hits, "I'm So Thankful, Peaches and Cream, and "Fine,Fine,Fine"), sold fairly well. And, "Lonely For You" not only charted, but was also a regional hit.
    I doubt if any of the Phi-Dan product got any airplay, Robb. The industry had turned its back on Phil's A-grade Philles girl-group releases. I doubt if they were interested in Phil's subsidiary-label releases -- even though they weren't produced by him. They were OWNED by Phil which was enough to turn the DJs off.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary View Post
    Why, hello there, Boog! You know, that never occurred to me, but you've raised an interesting question. Why WOULD Sonny duplicate Phil's sound if the DJ's were tired if it? By the time Sonny & Cher's first LP, "Look At Us", was released in 1965, Phil's Wall Of Sound had become overdone in a shroud of weirdness with echoed bongos and what have you as can be heard in The Ronettes "Born To Be Together" and "Is This What I Get For Loving You". Mind you, they're both great records which I loved and still do, but they were getting over the top with the echo. Sonny, on the other hand, avoided the excess, keeping the Wall Of Sound at the level that made Philles famous in the first place and, as you pointed out, "splendidly". And, yes, John, at Gold Star with Phil's Wrecking Crew on hand.
    Hmm but I think Sonny opted for that Spector wierdness in his production of "Dream Baby" for Cher which has some bongo madness (a brilliant record by the way).

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by mysterysinger View Post
    Hmm but I think Sonny opted for that Spector wierdness in his production of "Dream Baby" for Cher which has some bongo madness (a brilliant record by the way).
    Oh, I love Cher's "Dream Baby", too, Mystery! It's one of my favorite girl-group records. But the echoed bongos in Sonny's production weren't featured as predominately as they were on the two Ronettes tracks I was referring to. Cher's record still boasts the Wall Of Sound style of Phil's 1963-64 Philles productions, whereas "Born To Be Together" and "Is This What I Get For Loving You" are representative of Phil's slowed-down, over-the-top 1965 Wall Of Sound. (NOTE: I love The Ronettes' "BTBT" and "ITWIGFLY". The weird bongo parts are just a bit much for my personal taste. I think that's the "sound" that wore down the public's interest in Phil's Wall Of Sound, as it had already been featured heavily in the Righteous Brothers "Lovin' Feeling" and "Just Once In My Life". Just my personal opinion.]

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