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  1. #51
    Any rare four tops clips or vintage interviews?

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by 9A View Post
    Ralph sat for an interview with a Canadian company a few years ago and never even received a copy of his interview, although they assured him they would send him one. Instead, he learned of a web site where they are showing the clips, but you have to pay to subscribe. Similar interview about his experience at Motown.
    That's not good.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by 9A View Post
    Ralph sat for an interview with a Canadian company a few years ago and never even received a copy of his interview, although they assured him they would send him one. Instead, he learned of a web site where they are showing the clips, but you have to pay to subscribe. Similar interview about his experience at Motown.
    About 10 years ago, I provided a very popular television station in NYC with a ton of video footage for a program they were proposing to produced. They did not follow through and did not return any of my materials!

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by StuBass1 View Post
    I've been contacted for interviews in the past, even one from people representing Levi's that were doing a project on Detroit music. They arranged to meet me and I did an interview, spending about two hours with them and apparently never made it out of the blocks. Many of these projects are done on spec and never get past the finish line...
    I know exactly what you mean. One that was being developed in NYC never materialized and the producer moved to Brazil!

  5. #55
    I just had the chance to watch it. Living in the UK I weren't gonna wait til Sep 30 to reach the cinemas so I went through the unethical route lol.

    I really enjoyed it.. as has been mentioned before the banter between Berry and Smokey was priceless...

    ..and it's good to learn something new... that part about the guy from the union turning up at the session...I never knew that was how Martha Reeves went from secretary to star... amazing how things work out

  6. #56
    "Where Did Our Love Go" being originally intended for The Marvelettes and rejected by Gladys Horton was indeed confirmed by the Holland brothers, and by Smokey, with Berry Gordy standing right next to him, so that should settle that once and for all.. How different history might be if Gladys had said yes.. I'm surprised that no one here has mentioned that yet

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by ralpht View Post
    I like your idea of a multi part series, Marv, but that more than likely won't happen.
    It should have been a multi-part documentary series, but unfortunately it would have to be one where Berry Gordy would not have final say over the content. There is a way to tell the truth without anyone looking like a villain or a victim, but in the Motown story you have to discuss Gordy's shady side in screwing people over and his tunnel vision. It's a side Gordy would never allow to be told if he's at the helm.

  8. #58
    I learned that I Heard It Through the Grapevine was first recorded by the Miracles in August of 1966. It was not released until after Marvin's in April of 1967 and also Gladys Knight and the Pips in June of 1967. Another thing I just learned about this song that was not told on the special was that I Heard It Through the Grapevine was recorded by seven different Motown artists --- other than the 3 just mentioned, it was recorded by Rustix, Bobby Taylor & the Vancouvers, the Temptations, and the Undisputed Truth. That could be close or an actual record for the Motown song recorded by the most artists. I am not certain on that but it could be in the running.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by woodward View Post
    I learned that I Heard It Through the Grapevine was first recorded by the Miracles in August of 1966. It was not released until after Marvin's in April of 1967 and also Gladys Knight and the Pips in June of 1967. Another thing I just learned about this song that was not told on the special was that I Heard It Through the Grapevine was recorded by seven different Motown artists --- other than the 3 just mentioned, it was recorded by Rustix, Bobby Taylor & the Vancouvers, the Temptations, and the Undisputed Truth. That could be close or an actual record for the Motown song recorded by the most artists. I am not certain on that but it could be in the running.
    "For Once In My Life" is the most recorded song at Motown

    - Connie Haines
    - Jack Soo (unreleased)
    - Barbara McNair
    - Billy Eckstine
    - The Four Tops
    - Martha & the Vandellas
    - The Temptations
    - Stevie Wonder
    - Jonah Jones
    - Smokey Robinson & the Miracles
    - Soupy Sales
    - Blinky (unreleased)
    - Joe Harnell
    - Sammy Davis Jr.
    - Kiki Dee
    - The Ding Dongs
    - Gladys Knight & the Pips

    and counting...

  10. #60
    Brad, can you relate to me the negative things regarding Berry Gordy? I'm curious to know your thoughts on this matter.

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    "For Once In My Life" is the most recorded song at Motown

    - Connie Haines
    - Jack Soo (unreleased)
    - Barbara McNair
    - Billy Eckstine
    - The Four Tops
    - Martha & the Vandellas
    - The Temptations
    - Stevie Wonder
    - Jonah Jones
    - Smokey Robinson & the Miracles
    - Soupy Sales
    - Blinky (unreleased)
    - Joe Harnell
    - Sammy Davis Jr.
    - Kiki Dee
    - The Ding Dongs
    - Gladys Knight & the Pips

    and counting...
    The Supremes also did on their "Live In Japan" album in 1973.

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by ralpht View Post
    Brad, can you relate to me the negative things regarding Berry Gordy? I'm curious to know your thoughts on this matter.
    First off, I have mad respect for Berry Gordy and what he's given the world. I don't know what many of us and the music would be like if it weren't for him. He's a visionary and his dream became a reality for a lot of us that still lives today and I'm thankful he did. Believe me, his positives far outweigh the negatives.

    In terms of the negative things...I think the discussions of contracts, how little artists made in terms of money/royalties (ex. Diana Ross leaving Motown with only $250,000 after 20 years of smash hits and sold out tours), Motown refusing to submit record sales to the RIAA, his tunnel vision set on Ross becoming a superstar while neglecting other incredible talents on the label, his treatment of Florence Ballard, the lawsuits between Motown and HDH, the way he uprooted Motown out of Detroit without telling the ones who helped to create it (ex. The Funk Bros. finding out by a sign on the door), etc. Those kinds of things. Being a historian and someone who seeks to tell the truth, if we are ever to do a full length, multi part documentary series on Motown, those are things that need to be look at and discussed. With Berry Gordy at the helm they won't be because who wants the public to know about the negative things they did in the past. Those things are big parts of the Motown story and if we only look at the sunny side of everything we don't get the full picture.
    Last edited by bradsupremes; 08-26-2019 at 01:48 PM.

  13. #63
    Brad, unfortunately, I have to agree with you on all you mention. I did feel badly on how the Funk Brothers were treated. And I was so against the move to LA. However as you mentioned he built an amazing music empire, and he did it as a Black man in 1950s attitudes. So Berry isn't a saint. Me either. I'm sure he did the best he could running a very complex company, while giving the world the most amazing music ever heard.

  14. #64
    Absolutely. I do think there is a way to tell the truth without making him out to be a villain because he isn't one. When you put in the context of the time you understand things better. I'm sure he has his regrets as we all do, but I know there are subject matters he wishes weren't discussed at all (ex. the firing of Florence Ballard and how he mistreated her) and prefers to shy away from it.

  15. #65
    It's funny because I was starting to write a post about how BG had no choice but to be a shrewd business man because of the fact that he was swimming against the tide and trying to build an empire during turbulent times. However, I came to think, "Yeah Flo was cut a really bum deal. Same with the Marvelettes." It's one thing to cut them off from royalties or minimize their royalties to almost nothing, but to cut a person off at the legs, so-to-speak, by not allowing them the use of their name/legacy, that's pretty low. I can respect him for a lot of things, there's no doubt about that. However, he struck some deals after the fact, that basically made it impossible for some artists to make a proper living for themselves, post-Motown. I get he was trying to protect himself, his business and future earnings, however you should also have a little decency for the people who helped you "make it".

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by carlo View Post
    It's funny because I was starting to write a post about how BG had no choice but to be a shrewd business man because of the fact that he was swimming against the tide and trying to build an empire during turbulent times. However, I came to think, "Yeah Flo was cut a really bum deal. Same with the Marvelettes." It's one thing to cut them off from royalties or minimize their royalties to almost nothing, but to cut a person off at the legs, so-to-speak, by not allowing them the use of their name/legacy, that's pretty low. I can respect him for a lot of things, there's no doubt about that. However, he struck some deals after the fact, that basically made it impossible for some artists to make a proper living for themselves, post-Motown. I get he was trying to protect himself, his business and future earnings, however you should also have a little decency for the people who helped you "make it".
    Sometimes I can't believe how you've grown up! Excellent post Carlo.

  17. #67
    I finally got the chance to view the documentary. As I suspected it was very similar to 1998's "Motown the Music if Forever" that aired on ABC in two parts. This documentary was fine for what it was,but it was also very lightweight.

  18. #68
    Thanks Marv

    I also just watched it tonight via Crave. It was pretty good but didn't blow me out of the water. I would agree it was lightweight and a bit slow moving at times. Perhaps I felt this way because it's a historical and educational piece geared toward the general public. For those of us who already know the entire story from front to back, there's not a lot of new stuff here. Nice to see Martha, Mary, the original Vandellas and some others interviewed, in addition to the usual suspects. Diana is barely shown in an interview capacity. She was featured for several seconds, and they used an interview from Motown 40. Nice to see all of the vintage footage of performances so nicely restored. I hope we can get more of that in the future. They could have mentioned some key players, such as our very own Ralph, the Andantes, etc. This was very much about telling Berry Gordy's story.

  19. #69
    I was pretty sure they were not going to mention folks like Junior Walker & the Allstars, Shorty Long or Jimmy Ruffin and they didn't!

  20. #70
    Showing in the UK on 30th Sept. In my area anyway .

  21. #71
    Diana Ross also recorded this song -- with Stevie Wonder as a duet issued on the Motown At The Hollywood Palace album in 1970 and in a disco version cut in 1977, produced by Hal Davis, included on the 1983 Motown Superstars Sing Never Before Released Gems From The Motown Vaults album. I think she performed the song on Make Room For Granddaddy or another television show, as well.

  22. Four authors of Motown books talk about the documentary, with a diverse range of opinion:

    https://www.adampwhite.com/westgrand...uthors-discuss

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Clifton Miller View Post
    Four authors of Motown books talk about the documentary, with a diverse range of opinion:

    https://www.adampwhite.com/westgrand...uthors-discuss
    That was a very interesting read. And there was something in it that I totally agree with.

    "... I suspect more than a few in the audience will agree regarding a Ken Burns-type series..."

    The Making of Motown was basically a Smokey - Berry lovefest. I would love to see a Ken Burns type documentary.

    I am rewatching Ken's documentary on New York City, which traces it from the Dutch settlers to current times.

    I would love to see a Motown documentary which traces Motown's history from Berry working on assembly lines, to his being ripped off from royalties from Jackie Wilson songs to the creation of Motown showing successes and warts, through its successes in the sixties, seventies, moving out of Detroit, its eventual sale and resale, and its current purpose and function in the present

  24. #74
    Maybe Ken Burns should be approached with the concept.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by ralpht View Post
    Maybe Ken Burns should be approached with the concept.
    I totally agree with that! The Motown Story has still not been done justice in my opinion. This documentary was ok, but I just feel more than a bit short changed. It's kind of like when Berry Gordy sold Motown in 1988 for $61 million only to watch it be sold again 3 years later in 1991 for over $ 330 million!

  26. #76
    Marv I prob won’t watch it unless there is some earth shattering historical revelation we don't know It is worth it or not?

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