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  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    Wasn't parts of "I Wonder" used in another song, but I'm scratching my head trying to remember what it was?
    Not that I know of with "Girls Can Tell", 144man, but I think you might be thinking of The Ronettes' "Why Don't They Let Us Fall In Love" in which the line is, "Gee, the moon is shining bright". The very same line AND melody were used in The Dixie Cups "Gee The Moon Is Shining Bright" 45 on Red Bird. Both songs were written by Jeff & Ellie & Phil (Barry & Greenwich & Spector). It was almost as if they weren't sure which direction to go with the song or which title to use, so they did one of each -- one version for The Ronettes, and the other version for their own group, The Dixie Cups. Might that be what you were thinking of?

    THE RONETTES:
    "Why Don't They Let Us Fall In Love"
    https://youtu.be/SPk9mZLnD78

    THE DIXIE CUPS:
    "Gee The Moon Is Shining Bright"
    https://youtu.be/Ms-ecwmgjuI
    Last edited by Philles/Motown Gary; 08-26-2019 at 02:30 AM.

  2. #52
    Nice job! Beautifully done Gary! I'm enjoying your breakdown of the details for each album.
    So that's the sum total of the Lp releases from the recordings at Gold Star? Twelve albums ? Did you buy each one ? ....as they were released?

    And since this is a Motown website , this is the first LP cut that stands out right away:

    Quote Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary View Post
    PHILLES PHLP-4011 (9/1966 ).

    IKE & TINA TURNER - "River Deep - Mountain High

    3) "A Love Like Yours (Don't Come Knocking Every Day)"
    (Holland - Dozier - Holland)
    Producer: Phil Spector
    Lead Vocal: Tina Turner
    https://youtu.be/lgHKVUVzheY


    It's wonderful ! Such crescendos! ( I wonder who the backups are?)

    Thanks again!

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    Nice job! Beautifully done Gary! I'm enjoying your breakdown of the details for each album.
    So that's the sum total of the Lp releases from the recordings at Gold Star? Twelve albums ? Did you buy each one ? ....as they were released?

    And since this is a Motown website , this is the first LP cut that stands out right away:





    It's wonderful ! Such crescendos! ( I wonder who the backups are?)

    Thanks again!
    Hey, Boogie! You're very welcome. And thank you for the compliments! Yes, Sir! 12 LPs was the grand total of Philles LPs -- or, actually, only 11 given the fact that the 12th was never officially released here in the U.S. Strange as it may seem, the answer to your question is no, I did not buy each of the Philles LPs as they were released. At age 11-12, I didn't have the financial means to buy them all. I got The Crystals "He's A Rebel" LP for my 12th birthday in March '63, and I bought The Ronettes "Presenting The Fabulous Ronettes" in very late '64 or early '65 -- soon after its release. I had several of the Philles 45s, but not all of them. By late '64, I was becoming heavily addicted to Motown which hit hard and fast. (That was when I started pocketing lunch money my parents had given me to finance my Motown purchases.) It wasn't until the U.K. Phil Spector International label started reissuing the Philles girl-group albums in 1976 which got me back into Philles big-time. About 10 years ago is when I decided it was high time for this Philles collector to put my money where my heart is and start collecting NM copies of the original Philles LP lineup. And that's exactly what I did! I also bought NM copies of each and every Philles 45 as well, all of which I cherish, along with my various Philles memorabilia.

    I'm glad you like Phil's production of Martha's "A Love Like Yours" on Tina. It's really pretty!

    Thanks again for your warm comments and compliments, John. It's appreciation and gratitude like yours that keeps me going.
    Last edited by Philles/Motown Gary; 08-26-2019 at 07:25 PM.

  4. #54
    John, I almost forgot. I don't know who the back-up singers on Tina's "A Love Like Yours" are. By then, Sonny & Cher were long-gone and making hit records of their own. I don't know if Nino Tempo was still in the picture or not. By now, it was 1967, and Tina's "A Love like Yours" was Philles 136 -- the very last 45 that Phil issued on Philles, after which Phil closed Philles' doors forever. So much had changed by then. I'm guessing the back-up singers were at least Darlene Love & The Blossoms, possibly more. With only 3 voices, Phil could have easily over-dubbed them as many times as he wanted to achieve a full-choir effect.

  5. #55
    Oh, Gary I didn't catch that A LOVE LIKE YOURS was released as a single. I thought it was an album cut only.
    So it turns out that the very last Philles single Phil released was a Motown song. How about that!! Boy musically, things sure wind up interweaving don't they!

    I wonder how Phil came to choose certain songs to cover. I suppose it's not much more complicated than they were songs he liked. SAVE THE LAST DANCE FOR ME , also from the RIVER DEEP album , was a great choice for Tina :



    I really love that recording ! Fantastic arrangement! (Is that 20 second ending almost DISCO SYMPHONY -ish ?)

    Is there much to learn about Phil from Tina's books?

    Quote Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary View Post

    Side B:

    1) "Save The Last Dance For Me"
    (M. Shuman - D. Pomus)
    Producer: Phil Spector
    Lead Vocal: Tina Turner
    https://youtu.be/e0b4jq5r76w
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 08-27-2019 at 02:18 AM.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    Oh, Gary I didn't catch that A LOVE LIKE YOURS was released as a single. I thought it was an album cut only.
    So it turns out that the very last Philles single Phil released was a Motown song. How about that!! Boy musically, things sure wind up interweaving don't they!

    I wonder how Phil came to choose certain songs to cover. I suppose it's not much more complicated than they were songs he liked. SAVE THE LAST DANCE FOR ME , also from the RIVER DEEP album , was a great choice for Tina :



    I really love that recording ! Fantastic arrangement! (Is that 20 second ending almost DISCO SYMPHONY -ish ?)

    Is there much to learn about Phil from Tina's books?
    Yes, indeed, John! Tina's "A Love Like Yours" was the final chapter in the Philles Records saga.

    TINA TURNER: (45 Photo - Philles 136)
    "A Love Like Yours (Don't Come Knocking Every Day"
    https://images.app.goo.gl/25MJEpEgEnj5UGBV6

    Phil loved Motown -- especially the Four Tops. I was always surprised that he didn't single out Martha & The Vandellas as a favorite, as their high-energy records were the closest to The Crystals and, in my mind, would have adapted easily to Phil's Wall Of Sound. I can easily imagine Martha on records like "Da Doo Ron Ron", "Then He Kissed Me", and "Little Boy".

    I, too, love Phil's production on "Save The Last Dance For Me". He always had a great knack for picking the right songs for his artists, and then making them all his own.

    HaHa! You're right, Boog! The ending of "Save The Last Dance" really DOES sound like the ending of "A Disco Symphony"! Same chords even, with the same drawn-out intensity! I love it!

    Tina's books -- that's a good question. I've wondered the same thing. I've never read any of her books. But, then, I wouldn't know which one to get. I'm not a big Tina fan, although I love her Philles recordings that Phil produced on her. The book I get would have to be the one that contains the most Philles coverage.
    Last edited by Philles/Motown Gary; 08-27-2019 at 03:09 AM.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary View Post
    Tina's books -- that's a good question. I've wondered the same thing. I've never read any of her books. But, then, I wouldn't know which one to get. I'm not a big Tina fan, although I love her Philles recordings that Phil produced on her. The book I get would have to be the one that contains the most Philles coverage.
    Tina wrote about Phil in both of her memoirs, I, TINA and MY LOVE STORY. She mentioned that she liked how Phil respected her voice as he would make her stick to the melody as opposed to overdoing it as Ike would have her do to sell his compositions. She also mentioned that the rehearsing and recording of RIVER DEEP was so different from her Ike experiences that she would blank on what happened when she left for the day. Ike would ask her how the song was coming and she couldn't even sing it to him. But one day on the way to a show, Ike asked again and she sang it for him in the car. Even without accompaniment, Ike was impressed.

    Re the RIVER DEEP session, Tina says there were tons of people in the studio. At one point, she wrote the arrangements were wrong and Phil ripped up all of the sheet music. When it came time to do her vocal, she had to do it multiple times and still couldn't get it quite as Phil wanted. She said she still doesn't believe she ever got the first line, "When I was a little girl..." right. She was working so hard that she was drenched in sweat and for the final take, she ripped off her blouse and recorded the song in her bra.

    That's about it. She also mentioned how the record never found a home in the US as some thought it too black and others thought it too white. But she felt really proud of it and how its success in the UK exposed her to a totally new audience. Unfortunately, she never mentioned none of the other Philles material. But I gather A LOVE LIKE YOURS must have been a favorite as it remained in Ike and Tina's act for a long time.

  8. #58
    Martha & The Vandellas did of course cover "Then He Kissed Me" (and "Wait Till My Bobby Gets Home" too).

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary View Post
    You're welcome, Peace! Are your British compilations, by any chance, the ones that Phil released on the Phil Spector International label?
    Yes, they are those. Great ones, too. Wish they were cd'd!

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Tina wrote about Phil in both of her memoirs, I, TINA and MY LOVE STORY. She mentioned that she liked how Phil respected her voice as he would make her stick to the melody as opposed to overdoing it as Ike would have her do to sell his compositions. She also mentioned that the rehearsing and recording of RIVER DEEP was so different from her Ike experiences that she would blank on what happened when she left for the day. Ike would ask her how the song was coming and she couldn't even sing it to him. But one day on the way to a show, Ike asked again and she sang it for him in the car. Even without accompaniment, Ike was impressed.

    Re the RIVER DEEP session, Tina says there were tons of people in the studio. At one point, she wrote the arrangements were wrong and Phil ripped up all of the sheet music. When it came time to do her vocal, she had to do it multiple times and still couldn't get it quite as Phil wanted. She said she still doesn't believe she ever got the first line, "When I was a little girl..." right. She was working so hard that she was drenched in sweat and for the final take, she ripped off her blouse and recorded the song in her bra.

    That's about it. She also mentioned how the record never found a home in the US as some thought it too black and others thought it too white. But she felt really proud of it and how its success in the UK exposed her to a totally new audience. Unfortunately, she never mentioned none of the other Philles material. But I gather A LOVE LIKE YOURS must have been a favorite as it remained in Ike and Tina's act for a long time.
    Thanks, Reese. I knew about Gold Star being jam-packed with on-lookers making Tina nervous. (I wouldn't have liked that either. I'm surprised that Phil would have allowed it.) And I knew that Tina had stripped down to her bra for the final recording sessions. But I didn't know that Phil had restrained Tina from over-souling it. (Motown restrained it artists from over-souling as well.) Phil also restrained Hal Blaine from going overboard with his drum fills throughout the recording until the end of the song. Once the ending with the fade-out began, Phil would give Hal the "nod" and Hal would cut loose with his magnificent drum fills which were his signature on all of the great Philles hits. I also wasn't aware that Phil had freaked out and torn up the written music arrangements at the session. I just looked up the music arranger's credit for "River Deep" and it was Jack Nitzsche -- Phil's right-hand man at nearly all of the Philles recording sessions. Phil and Jack got along great because Jack always knew exactly what Phil wanted. I'm shocked that Phil would rip up Jack's hard work. I guess stranger things have happened! Good to hear that Tina kept "A Love Like Yours" in her live repertoire for a long time. It's all very interesting, Reese. Thanks for filling us in!
    Last edited by Philles/Motown Gary; 08-27-2019 at 05:42 PM.

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by mysterysinger View Post
    Martha & The Vandellas did of course cover "Then He Kissed Me" (and "Wait Till My Bobby Gets Home" too).
    Yeah, I know, mystery, but I barely count those. They were thrown together hastily for "Martha & The Vandellas' "Heat Wave" album. To my ears, those renditions don't sound like Phil Spector NOR Motown. It would be cool to hear Martha's Lead Vocal on "Things Are Changing". I'll bet it would be impressive!

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    Yes, they are those. Great ones, too. Wish they were cd'd!
    To my knowledge, those excellent Phil Spector International LP reissues and compilations have never been released on CD, but since most of those tracks are Philles, the majority of them are available on CD in one form or other. Are there any particular tracks you're hoping to find on CD?

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Tina wrote about Phil in both of her memoirs, I, TINA and MY LOVE STORY. She mentioned that she liked how Phil respected her voice as he would make her stick to the melody as opposed to overdoing it as Ike would have her do to sell his compositions. She also mentioned that the rehearsing and recording of RIVER DEEP was so different from her Ike experiences that she would blank on what happened when she left for the day. Ike would ask her how the song was coming and she couldn't even sing it to him. But one day on the way to a show, Ike asked again and she sang it for him in the car. Even without accompaniment, Ike was impressed.

    Re the RIVER DEEP session, Tina says there were tons of people in the studio. At one point, she wrote the arrangements were wrong and Phil ripped up all of the sheet music. When it came time to do her vocal, she had to do it multiple times and still couldn't get it quite as Phil wanted. She said she still doesn't believe she ever got the first line, "When I was a little girl..." right. She was working so hard that she was drenched in sweat and for the final take, she ripped off her blouse and recorded the song in her bra.

    That's about it. She also mentioned how the record never found a home in the US as some thought it too black and others thought it too white. But she felt really proud of it and how its success in the UK exposed her to a totally new audience. Unfortunately, she never mentioned none of the other Philles material. But I gather A LOVE LIKE YOURS must have been a favorite as it remained in Ike and Tina's act for a long time.
    Reese, I forgot to point out that one of the Wrecking Crew guys who was present at the "River Deep" sessions reported that the music was so loud and powerful, Gold Star's walls were literally shaking! Not sure if that was during the recording process or during playback. Phil notoriously cranked it during playback, so that's probably what it was. But, still, music capable of shaking Gold Star's walls is pretty impressive! Did Tina mention that in her book?

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    Wasn't parts of "I Wonder" used in another song, but I'm scratching my head trying to remember what it was?
    144man, I answered your question, but I have a feeling you may have never seen it. Let me update that for you.

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary View Post
    144man, I answered your question, but I have a feeling you may have never seen it. Let me update that for you.
    I think the similarity is between "I Wonder" and "Girls Can Tell".

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    I think the similarity is between "I Wonder" and "Girls Can Tell".
    Well, 144man, let's compare them and see what we come up with in similarities between the two songs:

    THE RONETTES:

    "I Wonder"
    https://youtu.be/3no5JJ7ILRcGirls Can Tell"

    "Girls Can Tell"
    https://youtu.be/Yq0giht1NXY


    THE CRYSTALS:

    "I Wonder"
    https://youtu.be/cGksVc1QWl8

    "Girls Can Tell"
    https://youtu.be/pZl3GjkFzfY

  17. #67
    Mysterysinger, you recently declared that your favorite version of "Girls Can Tell" is The Ronettes' version; I allowed that, although I love them both, my vote goes to The Crystals.

    Let's compare them like we've never compared them before -- simultaneously!

    https://youtu.be/a58GcTgjNXY

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary View Post
    Well, 144man, let's compare them and see what we come up with in similarities between the two songs:

    THE RONETTES:

    "I Wonder"
    https://youtu.be/3no5JJ7ILRcGirls Can Tell"

    "Girls Can Tell"
    https://youtu.be/Yq0giht1NXY


    THE CRYSTALS:

    "I Wonder"
    https://youtu.be/cGksVc1QWl8

    "Girls Can Tell"
    https://youtu.be/pZl3GjkFzfY
    Okay. Here we go.

    The lines "I wonder who he'll be, I wonder if he'll be good for me" in the Crystals' I Wonder are sung to the same tune as "When you say I look so fine, When you put your hand in mine" in their version of Girls Can Tell.

    The bridge in the Crystals' I Wonder "Everyday I Love Him more,Than I did the day before. I will try to make him see, Just how much he means to me" is almost identical to the bridge in their version of Girls Can Tell.

    The Ronettes use a different bridge in their version of I Wonder, "I hope we'll never ever make each other cry, I pray we'll never ever say goodbye", but they use the same bridge as the Crystals do in Girls Can Tell.

  19. #69
    ^^^Also, in the Butterflys' Red Bird version of "I Wonder", they use the same bridge as in the Crystals' version.

  20. #70
    Two of my Philles favorites, 144man! I hadn't realized how similar they are!

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    ^^^Also, in the Butterflys' Red Bird version of "I Wonder", they use the same bridge as in the Crystals' version.
    I'm glad you brought up the Red Bird version, 144man! This record is one of the few instances where another producer actually managed to EQUAL Phil Spector's versions. And the Butterflys' lead singer even sounds like Lala to me! This rendition is among my all-time faves!

    THE BUTTERFLYS (Red Bird)
    "I Wonder"
    https://youtu.be/OIGjFCP7FUA
    Last edited by Philles/Motown Gary; 09-15-2019 at 01:48 PM.

  22. #72
    Oh, never mind, 144man. I see now you replied at the end. You can ignore this!

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