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    40 Years Ago! August 1979............

    Motown releases the album "Mary Wilson" !

    Name:  The Mary Wilson Album.jpg
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    I am one of the biggest MW fans....but this was one lackluster LP. the "Red Hot" 12" version is a better mix and better structured version. "Warm Summer Night" is the only other keeper here IMHO....I like 3 of the 4 songs recorded for the unfinished 2nd LP. "You Danced My Heart...." remains one of [[if not) her best vocals...I know many folks like Green River....but I like the orig. and think MW's version is a hot mess

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    I loved this song from it. It had a similar sound to Teddy Pendergrass' "Close the Door":


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    Another one of my favorites from the album and small preview of what she'll be doing on "Dancing With the Stars"! LOL!:

    Last edited by marv2; 08-23-2019 at 01:59 PM.

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    I've always loved the album cover - it is a fantastic portrait of Mary and those gold pants...chiiiiiiild!

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    much of this album was SOOOOOOO the wrong direction for mary. barely passable

    now the Gus tracks are a radically different story. that's absolutely the direction they should have gone with her

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    Mary performs this cut, "You Make Me Feel So Good" on television in early 1980:


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    I loved the intro to this one, another favorite cut of mine from the album:


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    My most favorite in all versions [[which is still being remixed sporadically today)......."Red Hot"!


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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Motown releases the album "Mary Wilson" !

    Name:  The Mary Wilson Album.jpg
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    What a memorable day that wAs. Hehehehehehehehehe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberta75 View Post
    What a memorable day that wAs. Hehehehehehehehehe
    ahh yes

    It was the 23rd of Aug, 1979. Another sleepy dusty delta day

    lololol

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    ahh yes

    It was the 23rd of Aug, 1979. Another sleepy dusty delta day

    lololol
    A major milestone in history. When you ask historianns what they remember about 1979 9 out if 10 of them say Mary Wilsons solo album.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberta75 View Post
    A major milestone in history. When you ask historianns what they remember about 1979 9 out if 10 of them say Mary Wilsons solo album.
    Lol lol lol !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberta75 View Post
    A major milestone in history. When you ask historianns what they remember about 1979 9 out if 10 of them say Mary Wilsons solo album.
    Having been active in the garage/club scene at the time, I can tell you, we were NOT listening to "Red Hot" but rather this:

    https://www.soultracks.com/story-the-boss-40

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    Mary's duet here with Billie Woodruff was also nice.......


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    Here is another one that I really like a lot! "I Got What You Need"


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    40 years? Where did the time go? LOL!!!


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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    40 years? Where did the time go? LOL!!!

    Hard to believe but thank God for you remminding us all about this timeless classic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberta75 View Post
    Hard to believe but thank God for you remminding us all about this timeless classic.
    You ain’t lying Miss Roberta! My nephew’s American History class textbook for Fall 19 arrived - Iran Contra has been replaced in the curriculum so that the students can study and analyze the historical significance of “Red Hot”!

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    It was a poor album. Sub standard material with mediocre vocals. Only three tracks were of an acceptable standard in my opinion. Pick up the pieces, warm summer night and The light that guides my way.
    A UK company obtained the rights to release an expanded edition a few years ago, but eventually decided against it. I suspect they made the correct decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    I loved this song from it. It had a similar sound to Teddy Pendergrass' "Close the Door":


    This is the direction the album should have gone in. IMO it's far and above the best song on the lp. I had in constant rotation on my ipod for a long time. That groove is great. Mary's strength at the time was in the sexy quality of her voice. To not capitalize on that was criminal, with all of those great 70s grooves available.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    This is the direction the album should have gone in. IMO it's far and above the best song on the lp. I had in constant rotation on my ipod for a long time. That groove is great. Mary's strength at the time was in the sexy quality of her voice. To not capitalize on that was criminal, with all of those great 70s grooves available.
    I do not think that the people that claim that it is such an awful album and how much they hate it have ever really sat down and listened to it. It is far from the worst thing I've ever heard, in fact it is rather good!

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    Motown did her dirty. That's all I'll say about this project.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    I do not think that the people that claim that it is such an awful album and how much they hate it have ever really sat down and listened to it. It is far from the worst thing I've ever heard, in fact it is rather good!
    Ur right Marv. 🙄

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    I've seen Mary live about 12 times since '85....Red Hot was a spectacular live cut. she used the 12" version for live performances and it always got one of the best responses of the night....Stoned Love and How Lucky Can You Get also got lots of applause.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    I do not think that the people that claim that it is such an awful album and how much they hate it have ever really sat down and listened to it. It is far from the worst thing I've ever heard, in fact it is rather good!
    I was actually one of the few people who bought this album when it first came out. I tried to like it but i found it to be a very disappointing project. The quality of the material was quite simply not good enough with the exception of the three tracks i mentioned in my previous post. I listened to it all again a few years ago when it was being considered for an expanded release. My opinion of it had not changed. It still sounded sub standard and quite simply not good enough to be reissued. We did not think it would be financially viable to reissue the album. If you think otherwise then why not e-mail a few Record Companies and start a campaign for its reissue? Good luck with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Motown did her dirty. That's all I'll say about this project.
    Agree, but was Mary made to record this type of ill-fitting material. I would love to know the backstory to the recording of this album.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Agree, but was Mary made to record this type of ill-fitting material. I would love to know the backstory to the recording of this album.
    I do believe she was. It is hard to imagine she would have liked those sub standard songs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    I do not think that the people that claim that it is such an awful album and how much they hate it have ever really sat down and listened to it. It is far from the worst thing I've ever heard, in fact it is rather good!
    Well remember, there's two kinds of reviewers critical of Mary Wilson's work: one is unbiased and simply has a negative opinion of that album but not of Mary herself, the other is going to speak negatively of anything Mary does [[or says, or looks, etc).

    I agree that the album is far from the worst album I've ever heard, but I definitely disagree that it's good. Most of it is mediocre disco. Perhaps a Thelma Houston could've made more of it because she had a voice that was a good fit for that style of music, even though I still think people would regard the album as mediocre. The biggest problem with the album is that the music doesn't fit Mary's voice. Mediocre songs coupled with Mary's unsuited style makes for a passable album. Her incomplete second album with Gus D would've probably ended up a critical success because the songs were perfect for Mary's voice.

    I have not listened to the album in quite some time, but I'll put it on my to do list to revisit and see if I end up with a different opinion.

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    A lot the songs on the album might have been better suited to Diana's voice. I can hear her singing "Red Hot", although it's not the strongest of songs. Likewise, i think many of the songs on WDFFIL would have worked well for Mary.
    The album received a lot of media attention at the time. I remember feeling quite angry with motown for not playing to Mary's strengths and wasting such an important opportunity for her.
    Was this really motown's plan or just extremely bad management of an artist?.

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    they basically gave her the record deal to get her to drop her lawsuit. but by this time she had completely ruined her relationship with motown [[not that she was totally to blame). between her locking horns w berry during the supremes 70s years, the whole Pedro fiasco, the lawsuit, etc. But Mary took the record deal w Motown because no one else would give her a deal. clearly it was a last resort for her. So everyone raced into the studio to do this 1 project. And because this was 79, disco was king and motown wanted dance content.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    they basically gave her the record deal to get her to drop her lawsuit. but by this time she had completely ruined her relationship with motown [[not that she was totally to blame). between her locking horns w berry during the supremes 70s years, the whole Pedro fiasco, the lawsuit, etc. But Mary took the record deal w Motown because no one else would give her a deal. clearly it was a last resort for her. So everyone raced into the studio to do this 1 project. And because this was 79, disco was king and motown wanted dance content.
    Yes, a good re-cap. This is decades-known information; I guess we have some young posters here! The lp is widely regarding as a hot steamin' turd and a rusty ding in Motown's crown but Wilson can't be blamed for its quality given the circumstances under which it was recorded. Anyhoo, summer of '79 was all about Diana's 'The Boss'!
    Last edited by PeaceNHarmony; 08-26-2019 at 03:56 PM.

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    in her book she mentions seeing a poster of the album up on Tower Records [[i think) in LA. But was there any other promotion at all? she didn't do any US tv gigs for it, did she? obviously there was the NY NY opening concert. did she do anything in the NYC area to promote?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    in her book she mentions seeing a poster of the album up on Tower Records [[i think) in LA. But was there any other promotion at all? she didn't do any US tv gigs for it, did she? obviously there was the NY NY opening concert. did she do anything in the NYC area to promote?
    I don't recall any promo here in the Manhattan area other than the NY NY gig.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    in her book she mentions seeing a poster of the album up on Tower Records [[i think) in LA. But was there any other promotion at all? she didn't do any US tv gigs for it, did she? obviously there was the NY NY opening concert. did she do anything in the NYC area to promote?
    She sang RED HOT and PICK UP THE PIECES on the Mike Douglas show. I didn't see any other US appearances at the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    She sang RED HOT and PICK UP THE PIECES on the Mike Douglas show. I didn't see any other US appearances at the time.
    I think RH was lip-synced on some other music shows; not sure though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    Yes, a good re-cap. This is decades-known information; I guess we have some young posters here! The lp is widely regarding as a hot steamin' turd and a rusty ding in Motown's crown but Wilson can't be blamed for its quality given the circumstances under which it was recorded. Anyhoo, summer of '79 was all about Diana's 'The Boss'!
    I love "The Boss", but it did not exactly set the charts ablaze with hit singles, that summer of 79.

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    well there really wasn't a huge about of tv promotion for Boss either. Diana did a wonderful performance on Tonight Show. but were there any others? the HBO special aired in 80 i think but taped earlier.

    And of course we don't really have much in terms of records of what was done with dj's and station managers. the publicity kits were sent out to accompany the promo copy of the lp. what was done at trade shows, etc

    same for MW. although i think we know the answer - none

    and for Partners too. S&S did a Mike Douglas show and that's about all i've ever heard

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    well there really wasn't a huge about of tv promotion for Boss either. Diana did a wonderful performance on Tonight Show. but were there any others? the HBO special aired in 80 i think but taped earlier.
    Diana sang THE BOSS during the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade that fall. She rode on the Big Apple float.

    There was also a tv commercial for the album but I didn't see it until years later.

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    BG had a fallout with DR over The Boss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Diana sang THE BOSS during the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade that fall. She rode on the Big Apple float.

    There was also a tv commercial for the album but I didn't see it until years later.
    Yes! I witnessed that live! Went to the parade just on the rumour of a Miss Ross sighting!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I love "The Boss", but it did not exactly set the charts ablaze with hit singles, that summer of 79.
    Actually ... well, 'ya had to be there. 'Tow the discos DOWN!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    well there really wasn't a huge about of tv promotion for Boss either. Diana did a wonderful performance on Tonight Show. but were there any others? the HBO special aired in 80 i think but taped earlier.

    And of course we don't really have much in terms of records of what was done with dj's and station managers. the publicity kits were sent out to accompany the promo copy of the lp. what was done at trade shows, etc

    same for MW. although i think we know the answer - none

    and for Partners too. S&S did a Mike Douglas show and that's about all i've ever heard
    I saw Diana Ross in Boston in mid-April 1979...It was one of the first dates of her "new" tour which lasted about a month...amazingly at the Boston show there was not a word, pic, or hint that she had a single and album coming out within weeks...it was the same show I saw at Radio City in the Fall of 78 when she sang a couple of songs from the Ross 78 LP...it was the same show that eventually included several songs from The Boss album which was recorded for HBO in October 1979 and aired in January 1980...

    When The Boss album came out I was amazed that I never heard a word about it, or read anything in Billboard or Soul Magazine, or that it was never mentioned during her April Boston performance...wtf...so that is how Motown did business and continually dropped the ball...at the very least, The Boss single should have been promoted during the April-May 1979 concert tour...

    So, if they did a lousy job promoting Diana Ross' The Boss in 1979 then you can imagine promotion for Mary's album would be non-existent.
    Last edited by johnjeb; 08-26-2019 at 09:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    they basically gave her the record deal to get her to drop her lawsuit. but by this time she had completely ruined her relationship with motown [[not that she was totally to blame). between her locking horns w berry during the supremes 70s years, the whole Pedro fiasco, the lawsuit, etc. But Mary took the record deal w Motown because no one else would give her a deal. clearly it was a last resort for her. So everyone raced into the studio to do this 1 project. And because this was 79, disco was king and motown wanted dance content.
    Ta for the info sup. In truth i had entirely forgotten about the legal battle Mary was going through with motown etc etc. Did she receive any financial settlement at all or was it just the album deal she was offered?.
    Perhaps if motown had taken just a little tender loving care with the album it might have, god forbid done well. Hal Davis was most certainly not the right producer and motown must have by then realised that for the most part uptempo was not really Mary's forte no matter what the trends of the time. Those final two Supremes albums were a clear indication of the kind of material her voice worked best on. Could they really not have added a couple more ballads?.....hmmm.
    It appeared the company had already washed their hands of her before a single note had even been recorded. A massive disappointment as songs like "You Are The Heart Of Me" and "Teardrops" proved she could produce the goods given the right songs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    BG had a fallout with DR over The Boss.
    That is quite true Midnightman, and i think that is part of the reason why there was not much promotion for The Boss from Motown. Diana and Berry's relationship was broken beyond repair and he took no further active part in her Motown career.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    That is quite true Midnightman, and i think that is part of the reason why there was not much promotion for The Boss from Motown. Diana and Berry's relationship was broken beyond repair and he took no further active part in her Motown career.
    Yes, true and well documented. But The Boss remains among Diana's career best lps.

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    There was minimal, if any, promotion in Manhattan for Mary's debut. It was almost by accident that I saw a brief mention of the upcoming New York, New York appearance in a newspaper column, not an ad, on Sunday [[a day or two before the opening). I called the club and was told I could get a ticket if I went to the club that day.

    I did go to the club and was presented with the blue and black poster, which was not overly helpful from a promotional standpoint; while it repeated a small copy of The Supremes' image from their Lincoln Center appearance, the main illustration seemed very generic; Mary's face was not recognizable; the woman could have been anyone.

    On a more positive personal note, Mary was rehearsing downstairs in the club when I went to get tickets, and I was told I could go down and watch. I did. When Mary took a break after practicing several songs, I approached her and shared a short fun chat with her. She seemed welcoming and seemed not to wonder why a complete stranger was able to walk in, but I thought this lack of security was unusual, making the event seem small-scale and of little importance in the overall scheme of things.

    The show I attended was well-attended and well-received. Mary performed well on her own [[that is, as a solo act, although she had two female backup singers). But later, I could not help but compare the event and venue with any of the Diana Ross concerts I had attended, especially her initial tour as a solo performer just as Ain't No Mountain High Enough was nearing the top of the charts and her Evening With extravaganza.

    It was obvious, both from the debut concert and from the so-so initial album, that Mary was not getting the same support, guidance and promotion that she had enjoyed as a Supreme, and I felt sad; she deserved better. She projected the attitude of a one who has earned success, but she seemed to have learned little from her prior experience, perhaps in part because her role had diminished from the early days, even as her star ascended. She spent less and less time in the recording studio as the years passed; the various producers and The Andantes worked the magic in her stead. Maybe she expected that some similar production tricks would turn the tracks she recorded for her solo album into something akin to her previous work, including the final Supremes' albums; those, also, included some unexceptional material, but much of it came across better than one might have imagined due to the increased production values and the still-important but fading Supremes' name on each record jacket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    A lot the songs on the album might have been better suited to Diana's voice. I can hear her singing "Red Hot", although it's not the strongest of songs.
    That's because Diana has a voice that transcends many genres and styles. Mary didn't possess that gift. Mary knew her way around a ballad; damn near terrific with the perfect song. That was one of her gifts and the album doesn't speak to that at all. Mary also had this sexy quality to her voice that I never thought Diana possessed, making Mary's voice perfect for any type of sexy groove. The album plays around with this only a little, once again failing to play on the strength of the singer. In a disco diva's hands, this album would be mediocre but still listenable. In Mary Wilson's hands the album is still mediocre and passable, because there's little about it that is interesting enough to make time for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    But Mary took the record deal w Motown because no one else would give her a deal. clearly it was a last resort for her. So everyone raced into the studio to do this 1 project. And because this was 79, disco was king and motown wanted dance content.
    Looking over her book, I didn't get this impression. There's no mention [[unless I missed it) of Mary or Pedro shopping her around. Until Motown kicked her out the door, I don't believe for a second that Mary really wanted to be anywhere else. The fact that she was still referring to Motown as some kind of "home" and "family" even during the lawsuit, pretty much tells me all I need to know about Mary wanting to be elsewhere. Remember this lady was not a risk taker. She was always playing it safe, hence why she didn't leave Motown with Jean and Lynda. Also Mary's representation was Pedro, not only a horrible excuse for a human being at the time, but also clearly unqualified to represent anyone, even his wife, in an industry full of sharks. Was he savvy enough to shop his wife around? Doubtful. I don't know whether Mary would've been signed anywhere or not. As I always point out, my music collection is chocked full of singers who floated from label to label, barely scoring a hit, some of whose voices were no "better" than Mary's, so if they could do it, she could do it, I'm sure. But a singer has to put themselves out there. They have to knock on the doors. The only ones who have people knocking on their doors is the Diana Rosses of the world. Mary was a Supreme, but she was no Diana Ross. If Mary didn't knock, and knock often, she was always going to be stuck with an oldies act.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I love "The Boss", but it did not exactly set the charts ablaze with hit singles, that summer of 79.
    Yeah, the summer of 79 was all about Donna Summer. Blame Motown for that. Not that anyone was going to best "Bad Girls" or any of Donna's hits that year, but album for album tracklist, The Boss lp had it all over Bad Girls lp. At the very least if Donna was going to be number one, Diana should've been a close number two, instead of a distant number two or third. The Boss was an excellent album.

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