[REMOVE ADS]




Results 1 to 33 of 33
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    633

    Forever Came Today .... music vs lyrics

    Forever Came Today musically sounds foreboding, dark, and sad. Even Diana's vocal quality is muted and dark. Strangely, the lyrical content is celebratory and jubilant. "When he walked into my life, he made my lonely life a paradise. It came today, my forever came today!! "

    IMHO, This is the songs major flaw. I believe the song would have been a much bigger hit had the lyrical content been about love-lost.
    Last edited by Circa 1824; 07-03-2019 at 12:12 PM.

  2. #2
    i think another problem is the complexity. the key to many of the other big motown hits was they were deceptively simple. two verses, two choruses, a bridge and ending. bam!

    another key was the relate-able lyrics. Berry loved the philosophy of KISS - keep it simple stupid

    Basically Forever is an interesting song that pretty much disregards ALL of these motown philosophies. The structure is unusual, the lyrics are more abstract, the melody isn't really "hum-able" either.

    fascinating song for an album, terrible song for a single

  3. #3
    I don’t think this song is complex at all.

  4. #4
    if you compare it to Baby Love, Symphony, You Can't Hurry Love or even reflections, it's more complex.

    it has a much longer intro. there isn't the standard 2 verse/chorus structure followed by a bridge and then final chorus. The range of the melody is much greater than other sup songs. and the lyrics aren't as straight-forward. the lyrics of Baby Love and YCHL are very direct with a simple story. Forever's lyrics are more poetic and slightly abstract.

    now is it the more elusive and complex pop song ever - no of course not. was it radically avant guarde? definitely not But compared to what the girls were known for, this was a more radical departure.

  5. #5
    I don’t think the melody is dark. The chord structure is just very complex and different. Personally, it’s one of my favorite Supremes songs. I think it and “I’m In A Different World” are brilliant songs. I think HDH were pushing their own boundaries and it gives a glimpse into what direction HDH wanted to go at Motown. If you notice the bridge comes after the first verse and chorus. Very unusual.

    It should be noted that the song charted at #13 on Cashbox and Record World. 15 spots higher than where it charted on Billboard.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    .

    It should be noted that the song charted at #13 on Cashbox and Record World. 15 spots higher than where it charted on Billboard.
    that's rather unusual , that much discrepancy. Curious.

    Circa perhaps some of what you're not liking is the pace changes in the song .....it gains celebratory momentum then sinks back suddenly and slows down mid-song then has to rebuild all over again.
    I know what you mean about wanting lyrics to match the tone of the music.
    When BAD LUCK by Harold Melvin was a hit in the clubs ....it struck me odd to be joyously dancing because a guy's got bad luck.

  7. #7
    Another major distance in charting was “Some Things You Never Get Used To.” It stalled at #43 on the Billboard R&B charts yet it made it to #16 on Record World’s R&B charts. That’s a major gap and it’s puzzling why it charted so much higher!

  8. #8
    One of my favorite Diana Ross and the Supremes songs. Forever came today is a really good song imo.

  9. #9
    I agree with those who are pro-FCT. It was time for a change, and some growth, and this song did it. Diana's lead is, as usual, superb. Diana has a similarity with Nancy Wilson in that she approaches songs as three act plays.

  10. #10
    I loved this song when I first heard it. When I saw that performance of the song on Sullivan, I loved it even more. I even remember suggesting it to an aunt who was getting married to use it as her wedding song. But I've lost interest in the song over the years and dont really care for it now. Diana's vocal is fine but I do feel like the song overall is missing something. Also this was the first song where the Andantes generic sound started to kick in (Stop! and In/Out dont really count since Mary and Flo are also in the mix). I feel its lacking a certain punch overall.

    Now the follow up, Some Things You Never Get Used To, I have and always will love. Such a great song and am surprised it didn't chart higher.

  11. #11
    floyjoy678:” Now the follow up, Some Things You Never Get Used To, I have and always will love. Such a great song and am surprised it didn't chart higher."

    I agree floyjoy. “Some Things...” is a much more appealing song than “Forever” imo. And Ashford & Simpson did a much better backing vocals on the former than the Andantes did on the latter. They sounded more “Supremish!"

  12. #12
    if we ever get the Reflections expanded, I am hoping Kevin Reeves takes FCT and works his magic on it. I like Dianas vocal and the lyrics but the song is missing something,
    I also feel the backing vocals were deliberately distorted with the thinking we would never know its not the Supremes. they were wrong.

  13. #13
    The drumming on FCT is very lacking in my opinion, albeit the song's intro (bass?) drumming is good. I think the song overall has an overly unattractive lightweight feeling that contrasts sharply with the brilliant drumming/reverb tambourine on Reflections.

  14. #14
    I personally love "Forever Came Today", "Some Things You Never Get Used To", and, for that matter, "The Composer" and "No Matter What Sign You Are". The only beef I ever had with "Forever Came Today" is the bridge where Diana sings, "As we were standing there, you didn't speak a single word, but your eyes....", etc. That whole section is the same, one chord over and over to the point of near-annoyance. I remember reading in one of the 1980's behind-the-scenes Motown books that HDH were miffed that Motown had released it from the vaults as the song was unfinished. I like to think that, had HDH finished it before flying off for greener pastures, "Forever Came Today's" bridge might have turned out quite differently and just as beautifully as the rest of the record, which very well may have pushed the record even farther up the charts. Still, I find it just as lovely and lilting now as I did at age 17 upon its release. Its mature melody, emotional chord structures, and adult lyrics hooked me from the start. To this day, despite the unfinished bridge, it remains one of my all-time favorite DRATS tracks AND is among my overall favorite Motown recordings.

  15. #15
    I remember reading either Brian Holland or Lamont Dozier saying he was most proud of Forever Came Today. It must have been frustrating that Motown released it unfinished. I also remember reading that a young Barry White was at the recording sessions for FCT, invited by a friend, and that it affected him very much.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by lucky2012 View Post
    I remember reading either Brian Holland or Lamont Dozier saying he was most proud of Forever Came Today. It must have been frustrating that Motown released it unfinished. I also remember reading that a young Barry White was at the recording sessions for FCT, invited by a friend, and that it affected him very much.
    Wow! I never heard that about Barry White, lucky, but it stands to reason. I remember reading that Barry had a chance to join Motown back in the early '70s, but chose not to for fear of slipping through the cracks among the many other Motown artists. Instead, he chose to go with 20th Century Records where they could give him their undivided attention. It was clear, however, that Barry loved Motown. Just look at what he did with "Standing In The Shadows Of Love" on his first 20th Century LP! I usually hate it when non-Motown artists try to cover Motown songs, but I loved Barry's rendition from the first time I heard it. I can only begin to imagine how great his "Forever Came Today" might have been. Makes you wonder, would he have kept it slow like Diana's version, or would he have made it a dance track like the J5's? And would he have kept the track for himself, or might he have produced it for Love Unlimited? Either way, that, unfortunately, is a dream that will never come true (unless it's hidden somewhere in the vaults)!

  17. #17
    Interesting subject. I often wondered why they used the lyrics, There you were, standing there as you eyes reached out to me, something warm in your eyes.....the double use of the word "eyes" seemed way out of place. Wouldn't "arms reached out to me" had made more sense? I know HDH are very proud of this song but I never cared for it. It just sounded dark and gloomy. Great appearance on Sullivan though, they looked sensational with the exception of Mary and Cindy's odd hand claps. The J5 version was even worse.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by nathanj06 View Post
    Interesting subject. I often wondered why they used the lyrics, There you were, standing there as you eyes reached out to me, something warm in your eyes.....the double use of the word "eyes" seemed way out of place. Wouldn't "arms reached out to me" had made more sense?
    Funny, that never occurred to me, Nathan, but you're right! "Standing there as your ARMS reached out to me, something warm in your EYES touched my heart right then and there" makes much more sense. I wonder if Diana accidently said eyes instead of arms, and HDH let it slide figuring that nobody would notice. If that's the case, they were partially right because I never noticed it until now that you're pointing it out!

  19. #19
    Great song, but not very radio friendly or sing-a-long. Still it charted way lower than it should.

  20. #20
    I believe HDH left Motown before completing the track. Their last session was "I'm In A Different World" where they supervised the addition of the background vocals. After that, they were gone. Diana's vocal was recorded in late December 1967 and the Andantes were added in January 1968. R. Dean Taylor may have been the one who supervised Diana's vocal. He oversaw Levi's vocal on "I'm In Different World." Since he worked with HDH on several tracks, it wouldn't surprise me if Motown felt he knew what HDH may have wanted and had him supervise their leads.

    Also it had been written many times that very few producers got to mix their own tracks at Motown. Brian and Lamont, Smokey, and Berry were those few. With HDH gone when this song was completed, I often wonder how different the mix would have been if Brian and Lamont mixed it and if a different mix/edit would have helped the song chart higher.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    I believe HDH left Motown before completing the track. Their last session was "I'm In A Different World" where they supervised the addition of the background vocals. After that, they were gone. Diana's vocal was recorded in late December 1967 and the Andantes were added in January 1968. R. Dean Taylor may have been the one who supervised Diana's vocal. He oversaw Levi's vocal on "I'm In Different World." Since he worked with HDH on several tracks, it wouldn't surprise me if Motown felt he knew what HDH may have wanted and had him supervise their leads.

    Also it had been written many times that very few producers got to mix their own tracks at Motown. Brian and Lamont, Smokey, and Berry were those few. With HDH gone when this song was completed, I often wonder how different the mix would have been if Brian and Lamont mixed it and if a different mix/edit would have helped the song chart higher.
    Interesting, Brad. As I've already stated, I love "Forever Came Today". By 1968, Diana's voice had taken on a whole new maturity which I found especially appealing. HDH knew how to bring out the best in her. Just when things started getting super-interesting with newer, mature chord structures and musical arrangements sporting an exciting new intensity, i.e., "Reach Out I'll Be There", "7 Rooms Of Gloom", "Reflections", "Forever Came Today", "I'm In A Different World", and Martha's "Leave It In The Hands Of Love", HDH left in a huff and their exciting new chapter of The Motown Sound was slammed to a halt.

    As far as "I'm In A Different World" goes, I personally love it just as it is. But I wouldn't be against hearing a different mix if HDH had made one available.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary View Post
    Funny, that never occurred to me, Nathan, but you're right! "Standing there as your ARMS reached out to me, something warm in your EYES touched my heart right then and there" makes much more sense. I wonder if Diana accidently said eyes instead of arms, and HDH let it slide figuring that nobody would notice. If that's the case, they were partially right because I never noticed it until now that you're pointing it out!
    this is great stuff.... the kind of tidbit that makes coming here pay off.

    as your eyes reached out to me!! HILARIOUS !

    no one , avid Diana fans particularly, has caught this all these years?????



    I've got to check the J5 version.

    checked it ! Michael makes a correction of this flub.
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 07-07-2019 at 12:57 AM.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    this is great stuff.... the kind of tidbit that makes coming here pay off.

    as your eyes reached out to me!! HILARIOUS !

    no one , avid Diana fans particularly, has caught this all these years?????



    I've got to check the J5 version.

    checked it ! Michael makes a correction of this flub.
    Hey John! I just checked out J5's version, too. Actually, Michael doesn't specify which body part did the reaching out! He skims over it with, "There you were, standing there reaching out for me."

    Yeah, that's funny! You're right -- after all these years, nobody picked up on Diana's possible eyes/arms blunder until now! It reminds me of when I first got into CDs back in 1987. Motown lyrics were suddenly crystal-clearer than ever before. It was shocking how many lyrics I had learned wrong 20+ years earlier!

  24. #24
    I would call Michael's not repeating these lines in exactly the same way , a conscientious correction.

    And Lionel takes it a step further . He eliminates this part of the song altogether! LOL!

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary View Post
    Funny, that never occurred to me, Nathan, but you're right! "Standing there as your ARMS reached out to me, something warm in your EYES touched my heart right then and there" makes much more sense. I wonder if Diana accidently said eyes instead of arms, and HDH let it slide figuring that nobody would notice. If that's the case, they were partially right because I never noticed it until now that you're pointing it out!
    I know right? I always kept forgetting to mention this. Maybe the guy had lazer beams coming out of his eyes like someone from Star Trek or Lost In Space at the time. It would be somewhat horrifying if someone's eyes "reached" out to me. Kidding aside, it's not a bad song, just one that was overly dramatic. I'm glad some people like it. It just wasn't up to the usual standards for The Supremes although I do understand it was a last ditch effort prior to HDH leaving. They came back big time with Love Child. It's fun to dissect some of this stuff so we can all learn something new.

  26. #26
    I know I’m in the minority on this, but to me, “Forever Came Today” was the finest song HDH ever did for the Supremes. It took them to another level of maturity and complexity they hadn’t done before. I feel the same way about “I’m In A Different World.” They’re almost parallel songs. HDH bringing a new sophistication of soul and difficulty to the Supremes and Four Tops catalog. It’s a shame HDH left and a shame both tracks did poorly. I often wonder how different the Supremes and Tops would have been had both songs charted successfully and HDH continued their flow of new product at Motown.

    As someone mentioned earlier, Diana’s voice had totally changed around the spring of 1967. It deepened, took on a warm color, and she dropped the nasal tonality she had sung with for so long. I really love her voice starting around this time.

    The Jackson 5’s version of “Forever Came Today.” I hate it and cannot understand why people love it so much. The disco arrangement totally takes away from the power of the lyrics.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary View Post
    Hey John! I just checked out J5's version, too. Actually, Michael doesn't specify which body part did the reaching out! He skims over it with, "There you were, standing there reaching out for me."

    Yeah, that's funny! You're right -- after all these years, nobody picked up on Diana's possible eyes/arms blunder until now! It reminds me of when I first got into CDs back in 1987. Motown lyrics were suddenly crystal-clearer than ever before. It was shocking how many lyrics I had learned wrong 20+ years earlier!
    I know I always thought Bernie Taupin was genius until I realized Elton's hard to understand but imaginative phrasing made me hear them as more clever than they actually were.


    Hey Gary , did you ever catch the flub on this Philly tune?



    At around 3:15 Earl Young sings:

    I still recall the thrill,
    I guess I'll always will.

  28. #28
    I like very much the J5 version, but it's nothing like the original. Of all the Supremes tracks (the many thousands of them) - this one is my favourite. I was really pleased when one of the three (HDH) said that he was so proud of the track as it merely confirmed what I've thought all along (for many, many years) - that this is an outstanding song, sung superbly well by Diana.

    All these many years later, it remains my favourite - and nothing, absolutely nothing, comes close.

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    I know I always thought Bernie Taupin was genius until I realized Elton's hard to understand but imaginative phrasing made me hear them as more clever than they actually were.

    LOL!!!

    Hey Gary , did you ever catch the flub on this Philly tune?

    NO (see below)



    At around 3:15 Earl Young sings:

    I still recall the thrill,
    I guess I'll always will.
    Boogie, you've sure got a good set of ears! I've never picked up on that blooper.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary View Post
    Boogie, you've sure got a good set of ears! I've never picked up on that blooper.
    well it's one of my most played songs, so it tends to stand out.
    btw it's worse than as I stated it . What Earl sings is: I'll guess I'll always will.... yikes!

  31. Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post


    Hey Gary , did you ever catch the flub on this Philly tune?



    At around 3:15 Earl Young sings:

    I still recall the thrill,
    I guess I'll always will.
    Funny- there was an episode of the old tv show Columbo with a scene in a restaurant. There was one of those lounge singers performing a schmaltzy song and he makes a similar mistake with a line: "I guess I'LL always WILL". I can never watch that episode without listening for that flub.
    Last edited by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance; 07-07-2019 at 05:46 PM.

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance View Post
    Funny- there was an episode of the old tv show Columbo with a scene in a restaurant. There was one of those lounge singers performing a schmaltzy song and he makes a similar mistake with a line: "I guess I'LL always WILL". I can never watch that episode without listening for that flub.
    I'd be curious if he's singing "ZING" in that scene . Thought maybe it's a time honored flub, so just for snickers I relistened to Judy :


    nah ....

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    well it's one of my most played songs, so it tends to stand out.
    btw it's worse than as I stated it . What Earl sings is: I'll guess I'll always will.... yikes!
    Oops! A double-whammy!

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

[REMOVE ADS]

Ralph Terrana
MODERATOR

Welcome to Soulful Detroit! Kindly Consider Turning Off Your Ad BlockingX
Soulful Detroit is a free service that relies on revenue from ad display [regrettably] and donations. We notice that you are using an ad-blocking program that prevents us from earning revenue during your visit.
Ads are REMOVED for Members who donate to Soulful Detroit. [You must be logged in for ads to disappear]
DONATE HERE »
And have Ads removed.