Supremes concept albums - a discussion

[sup_fan]

rather than do a post for Liverpool, Country, etc, figured it would be more fun to discuss all of the concept projects [[released and unreleased).

what tracks really shine? what tracks flop? was a project well thought out or not? should they have released/complete the unreleased ones?

My fav is R&H. just perfect. i do have some preferred tracks from the unreleased ones. but the released ones are stellar. If i had to identify something wrong, it was that M and F were not highlighted as much as they could or should be. more 3-part harmony would have been wonderful. and i can't understand WHY they didn't so Sing For Your Supper, a song written by R&H for a trio! and Mama Cass did it on the special too

[daviddh]

i'agree,the Rogers and Hart was the best.loved the song Manhatten.
my second favortie is Theres a Place collection. love how they do the Mr Sandman,Our Day will come,Around the world is 80 days. I could do without the standards like Your Nobody Till Somebody Loves you. a few however have great harmony.
my other fav was We Rememeber Sam Cooke but as you stated already Flo and Mary were not used enough. I would have cancelled Liverpool and used tracks from Country lp elsewhere as they saturated the market in 65,

[reese]

My favorite is WE REMEMBER SAM COOKE. I'm a huge Cooke fan anyway so hearing my favorite group do his songs was a double treat. Particular faves of mine are BRING IT ON HOME TO ME, HAVING A PARTY, A CHANGE IS GONNA COME, and GOOD NEWS. I also like that many of the songs have Diana singing in her lower register, which I always like hearing.

When it comes to pure voice, FUNNY GIRL is my favorite. It shows such growth in her abilities as a vocalist. It is a long way from I WANT A GUY to THE MUSIC THAT MAKES ME DANCE. It is almost like listening to a different vocalist.

[sup_fan]

i'agree,the Rogers and Hart was the best.loved the song Manhatten.
my second favortie is Theres a Place collection. love how they do the Mr Sandman,Our Day will come,Around the world is 80 days. I could do without the standards like Your Nobody Till Somebody Loves you. a few however have great harmony.
my other fav was We Rememeber Sam Cooke but as you stated already Flo and Mary were not used enough. I would have cancelled Liverpool and used tracks from Country lp elsewhere as they saturated the market in 65,

ahh but Sandman was actually for A Tribute To The Girls, not There's. of course they were all packaged together on the HipO set. i like the 3 part harmony that's more utilized on There's but prefer the production and orchestral tracks on R&H. some of the balance isn't always as strong as it could be on There's. Like the brass and horn intro on Make Someone Happy or the brass on Put On A Happy Face. they're a bit messy.

whereas the tracks Gil produced for R&H are spotless. just gorgeous. but the set needed more 3 part harmony and trading off of lines here and there between the girls would have been nice

[sup_fan]

When it comes to pure voice, FUNNY GIRL is my favorite. It shows such growth in her abilities as a vocalist. It is a long way from I WANT A GUY to THE MUSIC THAT MAKES ME DANCE. It is almost like listening to a different vocalist.

so very right! FG is another great set although i'm personally just not as much of a fan of the score versus other shows. but the girls do a wonderful job. especially like the Expanded Edition release where it's just DMC

[bradsupremes]

Sing Ballads & Blues - Poor idea to do a speciality album so soon in their career without establishing the girls as hitmakers and Motown was right to shelve it. I know several of the tracks would later go on to be used on Sing Country Western & Pop, but they aren't impressive.

A Bit Of Liverpool - Rushed production to capitalize on the British Invasion sweeping across the music industry at the time. They do have good harmonies on it, but it's not something I point to as highlight in their catalog. It could have been better had it been done in a way where British Invasion songs were reimagined with the Motown Sound. I think it would have been far more successful had it been the Funk Brothers doing the tracks rather than LA musicians.

Sing Country Western & Pop - This album should have been shelved. Again Motown was trying to get as much Supremes product out there and also capitalize on Ray Charles and other R&B artists doing country. The problem is that the results aren't impressive and neither are the songs and vocals.

We Remember Sam Cooke - Nice concept in tribute to a fellow artist, but again it suffers from a rushed production. It would have been far better had it all been cut at Hitsville with the Funk Brothers.

A Tribute To The Girls - Good idea to shelve this project. Only a few tracks were cut and they're not incredibly impressive. I like the idea of the girls doing other famous girl groups songs at the time. I would love to know what other songs were planned.

There's A Place For Us - Another good idea to shelve this album. I understand what Motown was trying to do, but they had better results with the I Hear A Symphony album. Several tracks are good, others are alright. I don't know if it had been released if it would have done anything to further the group.

From Broadway To Hollywood - The album is a good idea, but again the results aren't stellar. There are some good tracks, but the problem with these concept albums are that they suffer from good production and lack good arrangements. I find a lot of tracks cut for this album to drag a bit. "The Shadow Of Your Smile," "Tender Is The Night," and "The Sound Of Music" are snoozers. It's clear this album was shelved in favor of Sing Rodgers & Hart which was a far superior album and showcased the girls way more than this album could.

Sing Rodgers & Hart - Without a doubt, their best concept album and one of their best albums ever. I actually wish this was released as a 2-LP set because I love the unreleased tracks from these sessions as much as I love what was released. They really could have done several different song lineups for this album and it still would have been incredible. What makes this album among their best is 1.) The songbook - You can't go wrong with the Richard Rodgers and Lorenz Hart catalog. You have more than enough there to pick some excellent songs. 2.) Gil Askey - The arrangements and production are incredible on this album because you have someone like Askey at the helm. No disrespect to HDH, Marc Gordon, Hal Davis, etc. but speciality songs/production were not their forte. Pop music was their thing, not musicals or showtunes. Askey had a background with these songs. He knew what he was doing with them plus he was an incredible musician/arranger. His mix of a big band sound with Motown resulted in amazing results. 3.) The album showcase the girls in a new light and what they could do. It pushed them as artists. Diana delivers some of her finest vocals and Mary and Florence provide really beautiful harmonies. My only gripe is the album cover art. I don't know why they decided on a two year old photo to use when there was clearly more recent images that would have been perfect.

Sing Disney Classics - I know some people aren't fond of these sessions, but I actually really enjoy them. They're fun and it's clear the girls are having fun with them too. I'm not sure what the album would have done for them had it been released in 1968 and I can see why Motown shelved the album. There would have been an oversaturation of specialty albums on the girls and with Florence and HDH's departure, Motown needed to redefine the Supremes in the pop/soul market by issuing the Reflections album. I would love to see this album get released in its entirety soon.

Sing & Perform Funny Girl - Now this was a horrible concept. This was clearly Gordy's attempt to push Diana off as the next Streisand and I can't believe he thought this was a good idea. I personally don't feel this album should ever had been made, but the results are surprisingly good and I really enjoy it. Diana has some of her best vocals on this album. She really shines. The fact there are three different sets of background vocals on this [[Mary & Cindy, Andantes, Blackberries) is a bit ridiculous and it's a bit jarring when you listen to the original stereo album. One listen to the new album mix with just DMC proves the Andantes and Blackberries were totally not needed. Gordy should have taken advice from Jules Styne about using DMC's vocals only. It was his score and Gordy should have respected his wishes. Styne knew best, Gordy didn't.

[sup_fan]

^i wonder if they should have done a different score altogether. rather than FG. they'd already pretty well established Diana as a "streisand" entertainer with TCB [[which was taped right around this time). plus their current shows highlighted their MOR mindset.

Image if DRATS had done the Hair soundtrack. or if they'd used that for a concept duet album with the Temps instead of the snoozer Together

[bradsupremes]

Wow, they totally should have done "Sing For Your Supper." That's the problem with the Rodgers & Hart songbook, you have so many songs to pick from. Now I wish I had a time machine and slipped the idea to Gil Askey.

A Broadway score they should have tackled instead of Funny Girl should have been Promises, Promises. A hit Broadway show at the time with a pop score that would have lent itself perfectly for an album.

[sup_fan]

I don't know that the "ballads and blues" was so much of a concept album as just a name for an lp. much of their music in late 63 and early 64 was of this style so i think that was just what they were looking to call it.

of the early sets, there are things i appreciate. There's a Place for Us has it's ups and downs but i thoroughly enjoy the amount of 3-part work on it. even though it's not the best overall production, it's great to hear them perform as a GROUP.

Same for Sam Cooke. overall i think the production holds up here. perhaps if the Funk Bros had been the backing band it would have had a bit more life.

[lucky2012]

Rodgers & Hart, Sam Cooke and Funny Girl are my favorites. They'd be the ones I'd keep if I could revise the Supremes discography.
In my minimalist revision, WODLG would be the debut album [[ala Meet the Beatles!) and We Remember Sam Cooke would be the only album released between WODLG and More Hits. I love the concept of a tribute to Sam Cooke and agree that the Funk Brothers and more leads by Florence & Mary would have made the album great.

Rodgers & Hart is wonderful as is. I might have included either There's a Small Hotel and Manhattan instead of This Can't Be Love and Blue Moon. But really, all the recorded tracks are well-done, and the album could have been released as a 2-disc set. Preceded by Sing HDH and followed by the blue and gold 2-disc Greatest Hits set in 1967, it might have enhanced the perception of the Supremes as albums artists.
I love Diana Ross on Funny Girl and I love how the album was produced. But I’m really glad we got both versions of the album. [[And that’s all I’ll say about that.) I understand Motown/Berry Gordy’s plans for Diana Ross, but I wonder if the Funny Girl tribute should have been released in 1969, after the movie and the Oscars [[to minimize and deflect any resentment from Streisand).
I think all the other concept albums would have been overkill. At the Copa rightfully cancelled out There’s a Place For Us. As for Broadway to Hollywood and Disney Classics, IHAS and Merry Christmas already combined the American Songbook and the Motown Sound quite successfully.
That said, I think one of the best purposes for Box Sets in the CD era was to include unreleased or nonalbum gems. For me, the gems on CW&P are Funny How Time Slips Away, Lazy Bones, Baby Doll, It Makes No Difference Now, Sunset and You Need Me. I love Around the World in 80 Days, Sincerely, Mr. Sandman & Sleepwalk from Tribute to The Girls/There’s A Place. I don’t know exactly why, but I’m enchanted with the Supremes’ versions of Tender Is the Night, The Shadow of Your Smile and If I Ruled the World. Even on Bit ofLiverpool, I like You Can’t Do That, You’ve Really Got a Hold On Me and House of the Rising Sun. I think all of the above spotlight the Supremes as they were, a great vocal group.

[RanRan79]

I think from a "technical" standpoint, the R&H album was the best of the concepts. But my favorite is a tie between Sam Cooke and C&W. The gripe I have with SC is that some idiot thought it better to not pair the Funks and Supremes on Sam Cooke classics. Huge mistake. The tracks are inferior to the material. But vocally the girls are spot on and the album includes what might be in the top 10 of my favorite Supremes tracks, "Aint That Good News". C&W doesn't really suffer from anything at all. It's a nice collection of beautiful singing over fairly good backing tracks. There's nothing about the album that suggests it was an overlooked hit album, but on it's own it's a very fine piece of music IMO.

[RanRan79]

I also like that many of the songs have Diana singing in her lower register, which I always like hearing.

Yes! Her lower register was sadly underutilized throughout the Supremes period.

[RanRan79]

A Tribute To The Girls - Good idea to shelve this project. Only a few tracks were cut and they're not incredibly impressive. I like the idea of the girls doing other famous girl groups songs at the time. I would love to know what other songs were planned.

My idea for the album was similar to yours. I think the basic premise was a fantastic idea and would have worked with a bit of different focus. So far the tracks I've been able to put together for the unfinished project [[courtesy of DFTMC):

I Am Woman
Sincerely
Around the World In 80 Days
Mr. Sandman
People

All of these are fine cuts but would mostly be outside of my personal direction if I were producing this album. I would keep "Mr. Sandman" but definitely use an alternate version [[the released version sounds like a demo to me). I would probably keep "Sincerely" also. Here's what my album might have looked like:

1. Mr. Sandman [[Chordettes)
2. Sincerely [[McGuire Sisters)
3. A Lover's Concerto [[the version from the Symphony album) [[Toys)
4. Be My Baby [[Ronettes)
5. Anyone Who Had a Heart [[Dionne Warwick)
6. He's So Fine [[Flo lead) [[Chiffons)

1. My Guy [[Mary lead) [[Mary Wells)
2. Every Little Bit Hurts [[Brenda Holloway)
3. Please Mr. Postman [[Flo lead) [[Marvelettes)
4. He Was Really Saying Something [[Velvelettes)
5. Love Makes Me Do Foolish Things [[Martha and Vandellas)
6. Take Me In Your Arms [[Kim Weston)

It's Motown so I figure a side of the album would have to be devoted to the label's ladies, while the other side devoted to the ladies outside of the company. I might remove "Sincerely" and replace it with "It's My Party" by Leslie Gore, which I think Diana would've really gotten into.

[RanRan79]

Sing Disney Classics - I know some people aren't fond of these sessions, but I actually really enjoy them. They're fun and it's clear the girls are having fun with them too. I'm not sure what the album would have done for them had it been released in 1968 and I can see why Motown shelved the album. There would have been an oversaturation of specialty albums on the girls and with Florence and HDH's departure, Motown needed to redefine the Supremes in the pop/soul market by issuing the Reflections album. I would love to see this album get released in its entirety soon.

I love the Disney album and think that had the album been completed for a Christmas release in 66 or 67 it would've been a great idea. As is, and if the album had come out in 68, it's really all over the place with Diana telling Flo to whistle while she works on one song and then calling out to Cindy to come and play in the Magic Kingdom on another. If they could've completed it by Christmas 67, maybe they could've re-recorded the songs where Flo is most prominent [[like "Whistle" and "Davy") and replaced with Cindy as needed. Although I can't imagine Cindy rapping over "Davy" in place of Florence.

The overall concept was a good one. And there's some really good singing to be found on some of those cuts. I especially love Diana on "Someday My Prince Will Come" and "In the Land of Make Believe". Mary shocked me on "Davy" because I mostly don't think her voice was a good fit for uptempo songs during this period but she knocked that one out very well. Even Cindy's voice is a part of the appeal of "Land of Make Believe". She comes across so beautiful in the harmony.

[RanRan79]

Rodgers & Hart is wonderful as is.

Honestly Lucky I think I would've scrapped almost the entire original released album tracks and replaced with a lot of the unreleased tracks. I find the unreleased tracks were mostly better than what made the actual album.

[RanRan79]

My idea for the album was similar to yours. I think the basic premise was a fantastic idea and would have worked with a bit of different focus. So far the tracks I've been able to put together for the unfinished project [[courtesy of DFTMC):

I Am Woman
Sincerely
Around the World In 80 Days
Mr. Sandman
People

All of these are fine cuts but would mostly be outside of my personal direction if I were producing this album. I would keep "Mr. Sandman" but definitely use an alternate version [[the released version sounds like a demo to me). I would probably keep "Sincerely" also. Here's what my album might have looked like:

1. Mr. Sandman [[Chordettes)
2. Sincerely [[McGuire Sisters)
3. A Lover's Concerto [[the version from the Symphony album) [[Toys)
4. Be My Baby [[Ronettes)
5. Anyone Who Had a Heart [[Dionne Warwick)
6. He's So Fine [[Flo lead) [[Chiffons)

1. My Guy [[Mary lead) [[Mary Wells)
2. Every Little Bit Hurts [[Brenda Holloway)
3. Please Mr. Postman [[Flo lead) [[Marvelettes)
4. He Was Really Saying Something [[Velvelettes)
5. Love Makes Me Do Foolish Things [[Martha and Vandellas)
6. Take Me In Your Arms [[Kim Weston)

It's Motown so I figure a side of the album would have to be devoted to the label's ladies, while the other side devoted to the ladies outside of the company. I might remove "Sincerely" and replace it with "It's My Party" by Leslie Gore, which I think Diana would've really gotten into.

Did a bit more thinking and I think I might replace "Sincerely" with the Shirelles "Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow". I always thought Mary would've been perfect for the lead on that if they ever recorded it. A bit surprised that they never did. Also might replace "He's So Fine" with "Chapel of Love", another song I'm surprised the Supremes never covered. Their harmony would've been a great fit for it.

[lucky2012]

"Sincerely", "Mr. Sandman" are from the 50's. For a more 60's album, I like your including the Shirelles and Chiffons. How about the Shirelles' "Baby, It's You" or "Soldier Boy" [[I think this inspired "Your Heart Belongs to Me"), "One Fine Day" [[Chiffons), the Crystals' "He's a Rebel" or "Da Doo Ron Ron" [[inspired "Run, Run, Run"?), "You Don't Own Me" [[Lesley Gore), "Wishin' & Hopin'" [[Dusty Springfield), "Shoop Shoop Song" [[Betty Everett). I can hear Flo & Mary on some of the above songs. And yes, I would love to hear the Supremes' harmonies

on Chapel of Love. [[I like the Shangri-las but I can't imagine the Supremes singing any of their songs).

[sup_fan]

Yes! Her lower register was sadly underutilized throughout the Supremes period.

and Flo's lower register on Good News too!! her vocals on that track are flawless

[RanRan79]

"Sincerely", "Mr. Sandman" are from the 50's. For a more 60's album, I like your including the Shirelles and Chiffons. How about the Shirelles' "Baby, It's You" or "Soldier Boy" [[I think this inspired "Your Heart Belongs to Me"), "One Fine Day" [[Chiffons), the Crystals' "He's a Rebel" or "Da Doo Ron Ron" [[inspired "Run, Run, Run"?), "You Don't Own Me" [[Lesley Gore), "Wishin' & Hopin'" [[Dusty Springfield), "Shoop Shoop Song" [[Betty Everett). I can hear Flo & Mary on some of the above songs. And yes, I would love to hear the Supremes' harmonies

on Chapel of Love. [[I like the Shangri-las but I can't imagine the Supremes singing any of their songs).

Okay Lucky, you added some excellent choices. Truth be told, although the Supremes and Martha and the Vandellas are among my favorite female groups in the history of music [[Supremes #1, M&V easily top 10), believe it or not I'm not a big fan of 60s girl groups so my choices might be a bit limited in song selection. But clearly compiling the tracklist for the album is a bit more difficult than I thought, considering how I keep thinking of more songs to add. So here's what the ATTTG album sessions might look like under my production:

The Chordettes "Mr. Sandman" [[group); McGuire Sisters "Sincerely" [[Diana); the Toys "A Lovers Concerto" [[Diana); Ronettes "Be My Baby" [[Diana, might even consider Mary); Dionne Warwick "Anyone Who Had a Heart" [[Diana, might consider Mary also); I originally went with the Chiffons' "He's So Fine" with Flo on lead, but I think I like your choice of "One Fine Day" better [[Diana); Mary Wells "My Guy" [[Mary); Brenda Holloway "Every Little Bit Hurts" [[Diana); Marvelettes "Please Mr. Postman" [[Flo); Martha and Vandellas "Love Makes Me Do Foolish Things" [[Diana); Lesley Gore "It's My Party" and "You Don't Own Me" [[Diana); Dusty Springfield "Wishin and Hopin" [[Mary); Betty Everett "Shoop Shoop Song" [[Flo); Dixie Cups "Chapel of Love" [[group); Shirelles "Will You Love Me Tomorrow" [[Mary); Baby Washington "I Can't Wait Until I See My Baby's Face" [[Flo or Mary); Barbara George "I Know" [[Diana); Barbara Lewis "Baby I'm Yours" [[Mary); Chantels "Maybe" [[Diana or Flo); Cookies "Don't Say Nothing Bad About My Baby" [[Flo); Barbara Mason "Yes I'm Ready" [[Diana); Royalettes "It's Gonna Take a Miracle" [[Diana).

And from there I just pull the 12 best cuts and bam, A Tribute to the Girls is complete.

[sup_fan]

I love the Disney album and think that had the album been completed for a Christmas release in 66 or 67 it would've been a great idea. As is, and if the album had come out in 68, it's really all over the place with Diana telling Flo to whistle while she works on one song and then calling out to Cindy to come and play in the Magic Kingdom on another. If they could've completed it by Christmas 67, maybe they could've re-recorded the songs where Flo is most prominent [[like "Whistle" and "Davy") and replaced with Cindy as needed. Although I can't imagine Cindy rapping over "Davy" in place of Florence.

The overall concept was a good one. And there's some really good singing to be found on some of those cuts. I especially love Diana on "Someday My Prince Will Come" and "In the Land of Make Believe". Mary shocked me on "Davy" because I mostly don't think her voice was a good fit for uptempo songs during this period but she knocked that one out very well. Even Cindy's voice is a part of the appeal of "Land of Make Believe". She comes across so beautiful in the harmony.

in total, there was more than enough recorded material for the Disney set to be released w/o too much Flo

toyland
Someday my prince
Chim Chimeree
spoon full of sugar
a dream is a wish
i've got no strings
land of make believe
supercalif...
zip a dee doo da
davey crocket
when you wish
heigh ho
whistle
won't be long before xmas

plus i believe the track for Bippity Boppity Boo was prepared.

They only would have selected 11 or 12 songs so easy to just cut Davey and Whistle and use the rest

[sup_fan]

"Sincerely", "Mr. Sandman" are from the 50's. For a more 60's album, I like your including the Shirelles and Chiffons. How about the Shirelles' "Baby, It's You" or "Soldier Boy" [[I think this inspired "Your Heart Belongs to Me"), "One Fine Day" [[Chiffons), the Crystals' "He's a Rebel" or "Da Doo Ron Ron" [[inspired "Run, Run, Run"?), "You Don't Own Me" [[Lesley Gore), "Wishin' & Hopin'" [[Dusty Springfield), "Shoop Shoop Song" [[Betty Everett). I can hear Flo & Mary on some of the above songs. And yes, I would love to hear the Supremes' harmonies

on Chapel of Love. [[I like the Shangri-las but I can't imagine the Supremes singing any of their songs).

i think the premise of Tribute was to position the supremes in the same class as the McGuire Sisters, the Andrew Sisters and some of the classics from the 50s. it wasn't so much to do girl songs that were their contemporary - like they did with Liverpool. it was to help elevate them into that upper echelon

So therefore we had the tracks of Around the World, Mr Sandman, Sincerely. It's possible that they might have pulled People , Woman and even Fancy Passes into the set, once There's a Place For Us was officially canned. Maybe Our Day Will Come too and even Boy from Ipenema

I think they would have done more tracks like:

Sincerely
Sandman
Fancy Passes
our Day will come
Danke Schoen
Sugartime

Don't Sit Under the Apple Tree
Around the world
I Am woman
Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy
Maybe
will you still love me tomorrow

[RanRan79]

"Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy" is another great idea. I can hear Flo on it.

Yeah, apparently the original concept was that 1950s trio sound mixed with showtunes and such. It probably would've worked too. But I think most of us would rather have had a more contemporary approach by covering more recent and popular numbers made famous by the ladies of the day.

[RanRan79]

in total, there was more than enough recorded material for the Disney set to be released w/o too much Flo

toyland
Someday my prince
Chim Chimeree
spoon full of sugar
a dream is a wish
i've got no strings
land of make believe
supercalif...
zip a dee doo da
davey crocket
when you wish
heigh ho
whistle
won't be long before xmas

plus i believe the track for Bippity Boppity Boo was prepared.

They only would have selected 11 or 12 songs so easy to just cut Davey and Whistle and use the rest

True, but personally leaving two of the better- funner- numbers off the album would have taken some of the oomph out of the album. There's a number of tunes in the collection that are on the boring side. "Whistle" and "Davy" are not two of them.

[sup_fan]

^oh now i wasn't saying the album would be good lolol. Agree that Whistle is one of the more exciting tunes they recorded. most of the others are sort of bland, ballad-y numbers.

i love flo's lines in it too lol. digging this drummer, my teeth might fall out!

overall i would have been a decent holiday album for the girls. and might have had a longer shelf life, like Merry Christmas