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    Mary Sings "River Deep, Mountain High" LIVE!

    She tore it up!

    Last edited by marv2; 06-21-2019 at 07:01 PM.

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    Damn Marv! Abt all I can say! The performance speaks for Itself!

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    I thought it was excellent. Even the band and the singers were good. I hate that they cut the video right at the standing ovation Mary was receiving.

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    Yeah that wasn’t good editing lol!

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    Quote Originally Posted by detmotownguy View Post
    Yeah that wasn’t good editing lol!
    That guy she sang to and brought out is songwriter Jeff Barry. He wrote along with Phil Spector and Ellie Greenwich.

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    River Deep has always been one of Mary's showstoppers. Usually she would do it as a duet with Parnell but he's not among her backup singers in this performance.
    I wonder what the venue was. Since Jeff Barry was on hand I have to wonder if it might have been some kind of tribute to him. Anyone know?
    As I understand it, Phil Spector rarely actually did any of the songwriting on those Spector-Greenwich-Barry hits, nor did he do much if any writing on the Spector-Mann-Weil hits, or on any of the other writer collaborations for songs released on his Philles label. I believe it was stipulated in the songwriters' contracts that Spector be given songwriter credit on all compositions penned for his Philles acts. Of course, his hand was in with regard to the production and technical aspects so it's not an outright lie. This is evidenced by the songs Jeff and Ellie produced at Red Bird which had a very different feel since they didn't employ Spector's Wall of Sound.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAl View Post
    River Deep has always been one of Mary's showstoppers. Usually she would do it as a duet with Parnell but he's not among her backup singers in this performance.
    I wonder what the venue was. Since Jeff Barry was on hand I have to wonder if it might have been some kind of tribute to him. Anyone know?
    As I understand it, Phil Spector rarely actually did any of the songwriting on those Spector-Greenwich-Barry hits, nor did he do much if any writing on the Spector-Mann-Weil hits, or on any of the other writer collaborations for songs released on his Philles label. I believe it was stipulated in the songwriters' contracts that Spector be given songwriter credit on all compositions penned for his Philles acts. Of course, his hand was in with regard to the production and technical aspects so it's not an outright lie. This is evidenced by the songs Jeff and Ellie produced at Red Bird which had a very different feel since they didn't employ Spector's Wall of Sound.
    BigAl, you know I was a bit suspicious myself when I saw Phil Spector credited as a co-writer. Jeff and Ellie seemed to have written most of their stuff as a duo. However, the practice of giving producers or record company owners partial credit was common back in the day, even at Motown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    BigAl, you know I was a bit suspicious myself when I saw Phil Spector credited as a co-writer. Jeff and Ellie seemed to have written most of their stuff as a duo. However, the practice of giving producers or record company owners partial credit was common back in the day, even at Motown.
    Spector was notorious for taking credit for songs that he barely contributed to. Barry Mann and Cynthia Weil wrote, "You Lost That Loving Feeling". Spector added the "gone, gone, gone, whoa, whoa, whoa" to the end of the song and got songwriting credit and royalties.

    It was ranked as the most-played song on American radio and television in the 20th century.

    He must have made a lot of money for his contribution of "gone, gone, gone, whoa, whoa, whoa".

    But I doubt that he is enjoying those royalties now

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    Quote Originally Posted by milven View Post
    He must have made a lot of money for his contribution of "gone, gone, gone, whoa, whoa, whoa".
    In one interview, Ronnie claimed, "I invented wo-wo's!"
    This might be disputed because Darlene employed them before Ronnie did.
    Now, whether Phil came up with the concept or whether it was Darlene or Ronnie remains in question. In any case, the device was used before "Loving Feeling."
    [[Ain't I just a wellsping of useless information?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAl View Post
    In one interview, Ronnie claimed, "I invented wo-wo's!"
    This might be disputed because Darlene employed them before Ronnie did.
    Now, whether Phil came up with the concept or whether it was Darlene or Ronnie remains in question. In any case, the device was used before "Loving Feeling."
    [[Ain't I just a wellsping of useless information?)
    You would have to take a claim like that from anyone with a grain of salt. You had a full 10 years of Doo-Wop, before "You've Lost that Loving Feeling" came out and more than a 100 years of Gospel before that! I invented "wo-wo"? LOL!

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    That's the way it should be sung


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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAl View Post
    I wonder what the venue was. Since Jeff Barry was on hand I have to wonder if it might have been some kind of tribute to him. Anyone know?
    It was a tribute to Jeff that was released on home video some time back. Other acts singing Jeff's songs included the Dixie Cups, Ronnie Spector, Jeffrey Osborne, and Deniece Williams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albator View Post
    That's the way it should be sung

    The Supremes and Four Tops version was much more successful than Ike and Tina Turner's............

    I like how Mary Wilson sings it very much!
    Last edited by marv2; 06-24-2019 at 12:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    You would have to take a claim like that from anyone with a grain of salt. You had a full 10 years of Doo-Wop, before "You've Lost that Loving Feeling" came out and more than a 100 years of Gospel before that! I invented "wo-wo"? LOL!
    Now that I put my mind to it, I remember the context of that comment.
    Ronnie was recording one of her post-Spector tracks and she thew in a couple of signature wo-wo’s. On playback, the producer, or arranger or whoever, told her she should do the wo-wo’s a little differently. She got pissed off and said something to the effect of, “Who are you to tell me how to sing wo-wo? I invented wo-wo’s.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAl View Post
    Now that I put my mind to it, I remember the context of that comment.
    Ronnie was recording one of her post-Spector tracks and she thew in a couple of signature wo-wo’s. On playback, the producer, or arranger or whoever, told her she should do the wo-wo’s a little differently. She got pissed off and said something to the effect of, “Who are you to tell me how to sing wo-wo? I invented wo-wo’s.”
    I know she was referring to the "Whoa-oh, a whoa-oh, oh, oh" she made famous in "Be My Baby". She does have a very distinct voice and phrasing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    The Supremes and Four Tops version was much more successful than Ike and Tina Turner's............

    I like how Mary Wilson sings it very much!
    Ike and Tina's version is the definitive version. A truly groundbreaking atmospheric recording. Chart positions do not tell the whole story, but Ike and Tina made the top 3 in the UK.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albator View Post
    That's the way it should be sung

    Oh yes indeed!!! Mary Wilson can only dream of sounding so good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Ike and Tina's version is the definitive version. A truly groundbreaking atmospheric recording. Chart positions do not tell the whole story, but Ike and Tina made the top 3 in the UK.
    So true. Ike and Tina Turners version blows Mary’s out of the water! Mary can only dream of singing like the great Tina Turner! Lol.

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    It has since become one of Tina Turner's signature songs, and in 1999 was inducted into the Grammy Hall of Fame.
    Wikipedia

    Yes, indeed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albator View Post
    Wikipedia

    Yes, indeed
    Hardly anyone bought Tina's version when it was released. I love Mary Wilson's performance of the song here. She did an excellent job!

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Hardly anyone bought Tina's version when it was released. I love Mary Wilson's performance of the song here. She did an excellent job!
    Hardly anyone bought Mary Wilson's solo recordings so what is your point?

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    It's funny how this Supremes version was quickly forgotten. If you google it's not even in the first page.


    I saw it was produced by Ashford and Simpson but it's a pale cover compared to the original.


    Celine Dion does a bombastic insipid rendition too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Hardly anyone bought Tina's version when it was released. I love Mary Wilson's performance of the song here. She did an excellent job!
    You should qualify your statement by saying hardly anyone in the US bought the critically acclaimed Ike and Tina version, but it was well received in the UK where it made top five. And a few years later, when it re-released in the US, it did much better.

    I should also say that Tina's live performance was electrifying. I remember seeing them perform it in some club in NYC back in the late sixties or early seventies. For some reason, we were sitting on the floor to watch the performance. We were up front. This may have been a dance club and there were no tables. Senility makes me not remember. Anyhow, when they performed River Deep, everyone could not just sit still and everyone got up and moved, swayed, and had fun enjoying the group's enthusiasm, especially Tina whose energy could power NYC.

    Tina Turner has a few signature songs. River Deep is one of them and in 1999 it was inducted into the Grammy Hall of Fame

    Tina Turner is an icon. You seem to think that the best way to support Mary Wilson is to disavow the accomplishments of others. Tina has many accomplishments. River Deep is one of them. And she has a Broadway show coming in the fall that I already have tickets for -

    It is fine that love Mary's performance and opine that she did an excellent job, but you do not have to diminish Tina to make your point.

    And many of us here on the boards wonder publicly and privately how you can love Mary so much that you have to put down icons like Diana and Tina in order to elevate Mary on her pedestal.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    Agreed. But he is not a fan. He merely uses Wilson as a cudgel against his deranged issues with Diana Ross.
    If you truly loved Mary and Motown, you would support them when they are in your area.

    Did you see Mary at the Carlyle in November or this month? Or NJCB MUSIC FAIR in Westbury, or the STATE THEATRE in NJ, or MOTOWN THE MUSICAL with the Supremes's Mary Wilson or AINT TO PROUD TO BEG with the SUPREMES' Mary Wilson? Did you pre-order her new book?

    You have the perfect right to support Mary. I do too. But I don't have to put down icons to support Mary. Support her with your pocketbook.

    Okay, I'm done, I'm sure this little rant accomplished nothing and you will continue your modus operanda.

    So I will leave it at that and now watch Tina in action. Check out the rarely seen dance intro to River Deep. No wonder no one could sit down in that NYC club to watch this performance. Such energy.


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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Hardly anyone bought Tina's version when it was released. I love Mary Wilson's performance of the song here. She did an excellent job!
    But she is not singing the lead on the single, is she?

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    NOBODY can sing River Deep Mountain High like Miss Tina Turner. NOBODY IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milven View Post
    You should qualify your statement by saying hardly anyone in the US bought the critically acclaimed Ike and Tina version, but it was well received in the UK where it made top five. And a few years later, when it re-released in the US, it did much better.

    I should also say that Tina's live performance was electrifying. I remember seeing them perform it in some club in NYC back in the late sixties or early seventies. For some reason, we were sitting on the floor to watch the performance. We were up front. This may have been a dance club and there were no tables. Senility makes me not remember. Anyhow, when they performed River Deep, everyone could not just sit still and everyone got up and moved, swayed, and had fun enjoying the group's enthusiasm, especially Tina whose energy could power NYC.

    Tina Turner has a few signature songs. River Deep is one of them and in 1999 it was inducted into the Grammy Hall of Fame

    Tina Turner is an icon. You seem to think that the best way to support Mary Wilson is to disavow the accomplishments of others. Tina has many accomplishments. River Deep is one of them. And she has a Broadway show coming in the fall that I already have tickets for -

    It is fine that love Mary's performance and opine that she did an excellent job, but you do not have to diminish Tina to make your point.

    And many of us here on the boards wonder publicly and privately how you can love Mary so much that you have to put down icons like Diana and Tina in order to elevate Mary on her pedestal.



    If you truly loved Mary and Motown, you would support them when they are in your area.

    Did you see Mary at the Carlyle in November or this month? Or NJCB MUSIC FAIR in Westbury, or the STATE THEATRE in NJ, or MOTOWN THE MUSICAL with the Supremes's Mary Wilson or AINT TO PROUD TO BEG with the SUPREMES' Mary Wilson? Did you pre-order her new book?

    You have the perfect right to support Mary. I do too. But I don't have to put down icons to support Mary. Support her with your pocketbook.

    Okay, I'm done, I'm sure this little rant accomplished nothing and you will continue your modus operanda.

    So I will leave it at that and now watch Tina in action. Check out the rarely seen dance intro to River Deep. No wonder no one could sit down in that NYC club to watch this performance. Such energy.

    Fantastic post my friend! Ultimate respect to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberta75 View Post
    NOBODY can sing River Deep Mountain High like Miss Tina Turner. NOBODY IMO.
    Amen to that! Tina owns that song. There have been several decent versions of the song, but no-one, but no-one comes close to capturing the passion and intensity of Ms Tina Turner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Hardly anyone bought Tina's version when it was released. I love Mary Wilson's performance of the song here. She did an excellent job!
    Trying to compare Mary Wilson to Tina Turner is like trying to compare The Spice Girls to the Supremes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Trying to compare Mary Wilson to Tina Turner is like trying to compare The Spice Girls to the Supremes.
    I can only presume #laughingstock is joking?!

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    I actually am going to put in my 2 cents worth because of the pattern i see here. The video is excellent. Mary Wilson sounds great. I celebrate this to be shared. When others bait with comparing it to Tina Turner's original, you will get responses that chart-wise the Supremes and 4 Tops version did better. There are 2 different takes on the song, both are excellent and should be enjoyed. Mary Wilson has every right to sing this song because of the version her group did and her voice sounds great singing it. How about celebrating instead of argument baiting? #Celebrate

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim aka jtigre99 View Post
    I actually am going to put in my 2 cents worth because of the pattern i see here. The video is excellent. Mary Wilson sounds great. I celebrate this to be shared. When others bait with comparing it to Tina Turner's original, you will get responses that chart-wise the Supremes and 4 Tops version did better. There are 2 different takes on the song, both are excellent and should be enjoyed. Mary Wilson has every right to sing this song because of the version her group did and her voice sounds great singing it. How about celebrating instead of argument baiting? #Celebrate
    Great idea Jim. Thank you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albator View Post
    But she is not singing the lead on the single, is she?
    Doesn't matter to me, the songwriter who is in the video or the audience in the video. She does a splendid job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Great idea Jim. Thank you!
    Then follow his real good advice in this and every other thread you post in.

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    For Mary, this is a decent performance. She isn't striving to reach notes in a Supremes song that she couldn't reach when she was young - like she does every time she tries to sing a Diana Ross song.

    But her range is limited - she can't really stretch like Jean Terrell or Tina Turner did.

    It's a reasonable recording and at least she got to perform in front of a decent crowd with reasonable back up.

    To suggest there is some comparison to Tina Turner is laughable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim aka jtigre99 View Post
    I actually am going to put in my 2 cents worth because of the pattern i see here. The video is excellent. Mary Wilson sounds great. I celebrate this to be shared. When others bait with comparing it to Tina Turner's original, you will get responses that chart-wise the Supremes and 4 Tops version did better. There are 2 different takes on the song, both are excellent and should be enjoyed. Mary Wilson has every right to sing this song because of the version her group did and her voice sounds great singing it. How about celebrating instead of argument baiting? #Celebrate
    I could celebrate with the post of the S/4T version, I guess lol


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    Quote Originally Posted by jim aka jtigre99 View Post
    I actually am going to put in my 2 cents worth because of the pattern i see here. The video is excellent. Mary Wilson sounds great. I celebrate this to be shared. When others bait with comparing it to Tina Turner's original, you will get responses that chart-wise the Supremes and 4 Tops version did better. There are 2 different takes on the song, both are excellent and should be enjoyed. Mary Wilson has every right to sing this song because of the version her group did and her voice sounds great singing it. How about celebrating instead of argument baiting? #Celebrate
    For the most part I agree Jim. The vid is alright. I don't care for the sound of the band and Mary doesn't really make it all that interesting to me. But she has as much right to this song [[as does Jean Terrell, Cindy Birdsong and Duke Fakir) as Tina does and she should sing it whenever she damn well feels like it. And anyone who prefers the Supremes/Tops version over Tina's, and vice versa, is well within their rights. Why should it be an argument? For my personal taste, I'm not really a fan of either version but if I had to choose one to listen to it would be the Supremes/Tops over Tina's any day of the week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    For Mary, this is a decent performance. She isn't striving to reach notes in a Supremes song that she couldn't reach when she was young - like she does every time she tries to sing a Diana Ross song.

    But her range is limited - she can't really stretch like Jean Terrell or Tina Turner did.

    It's a reasonable recording and at least she got to perform in front of a decent crowd with reasonable back up.

    To suggest there is some comparison to Tina Turner is laughable.
    So you're laughing at the person who posted the video that jump started the comparison, right? Marv didn't do that. Someone else did.

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    Wilson maintains a few yearly bookings by 'whatever' imitations of everyone from Tina to Shirley Horn to Diana Ross; it's what she needs to do to keep the lawsuits as bay. Of course we all know she never had anything close to a hit record, a singing style, name recognition or a signature song, so these imitations are the best she can do, bless her.
    Last edited by PeaceNHarmony; 06-25-2019 at 08:43 PM.

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    Ffs.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    ...these imitations are the best she can do, bless her.
    Growing up in the south, I learned early on that appending, "Bless his/her heart" was always to be employed either before or after saying something unkind or derogatory about someone. I see that this social convention must still be employed today, bless your heart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAl View Post
    Growing up in the south, I learned early on that appending, "Bless his/her heart" was always to be employed either before or after saying something unkind or derogatory about someone. I see that this social convention must still be employed today, bless your heart.
    Your are correct. I have heard people get called out for employing that phrase and rightfully so....Once I saw a lady slap this smart ass department clerk store for saying that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomatoTom123 View Post
    Ffs.......
    Are you saying that

    1. Because you can’t believe the quality of Mary’s performance?

    2. Because you can believe she’s talked about by a couple people with Tina Turner?

    3. Because she’s generally being shot down?

    Just wondering

    Mary wouldn’t be kicked around on here so much if Marv learned to hold his acid tongue

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    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    Are you saying that

    1. Because you can’t believe the quality of Mary’s performance?

    2. Because you can believe she’s talked about by a couple people with Tina Turner?

    3. Because she’s generally being shot down?

    Just wondering

    Mary wouldn’t be kicked around on here so much if Marv learned to hold his acid tongue
    So you're saying that Mary is being used as a weapon to attack Marv.

    That's not right, and it's not fair.

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    I’m not sure that’s the most correct characterization

    Marv twists everything to turn it anti Diana. Others stand up for her - many others and there have been more that came and went

    And Mary takes some shots to the head in the process; and she isn’t a big star, she isn’t well known, she had no hits of her own, she is no Whitney or Dionne or even Martha Reeves or Thelma Houston; and so she should be lower on the radar than she is.

    Plus Andy and Brad know Mary and I don’t believe they think she is a bad person

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    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    I’m not sure that’s the most correct characterization

    Marv twists everything to turn it anti Diana. Others stand up for her - many others and there have been more that came and went

    And Mary takes some shots to the head in the process; and she isn’t a big star, she isn’t well known, she had no hits of her own, she is no Whitney or Dionne or even Martha Reeves or Thelma Houston; and so she should be lower on the radar than she is.

    Plus Andy and Brad know Mary and I don’t believe they think she is a bad person
    I agree. This is so true. I really personally don’t want to take shots at Mary but Marv is always taking shots at Diana and acting like Mary is the biggest star and never did anything wrong is just too much to take sometimes. It makes some want to take shots at Mary to bring Marv down a peg or two and to show him how ridiculous he really is by always diminishing Diana Ross’ accomplishments and failing to acknowledge any of Mary’s lack of success!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    Wilson maintains a few yearly bookings by 'whatever' imitations of everyone from Tina to Shirley Horn to Diana Ross; it's what she needs to do to keep the lawsuits as bay. Of course we all know she never had anything close to a hit record, a singing style, name recognition or a signature song, so these imitations are the best she can do, bless her.
    But what did you think of Mary's performance on this? Sounds pretty good to me.
    Last edited by 144man; 06-27-2019 at 01:14 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vgalindo View Post
    I agree. This is so true. I really personally don’t want to take shots at Mary but Marv is always taking shots at Diana and acting like Mary is the biggest star and never did anything wrong is just too much to take sometimes. It makes some want to take shots at Mary to bring Marv down a peg or two and to show him how ridiculous he really is by always diminishing Diana Ross’ accomplishments and failing to acknowledge any of Mary’s lack of success!
    That means that ANY criticism of Mary here can't be taken at face value, because it might be just a way at getting back at Marv. How ridiculous is that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    That means that ANY criticism of Mary here can't be taken at face value, because it might be just a way at getting back at Marv. How ridiculous is that!
    No. I think your missing the point! I don’t really care for Mary’s voice as a lead singer and I don’t really like the way she has bashed Diana in the past. But I still don’t like putting Mary down because she was a member of my favorite group the Supremes. But the constant bashing of Diana Ross by Marv. Makes me sometimes say negative things about Mary that I would normally keep to myself of how I truly feel about her.

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    None of this makes the Supremes' forum a pleasant place to be and is the main reason I participate in it so little.

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Soulful Detroit is a free service that relies on revenue from ad display [regrettably] and donations. We notice that you are using an ad-blocking program that prevents us from earning revenue during your visit.
Ads are REMOVED for Members who donate to Soulful Detroit. [You must be logged in for ads to disappear]
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