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Thread: Ross/ Warwick?

  1. #1

    Ross/ Warwick?

    listening to "Make Way For Dionne Warwick" on vinyl (where she performs 'People') and I hear Ross (in inflection; in delivery/in tone)! Warwick was already scoring hits in 1963 as a pop chart 'cross over' with those high notes and perfect diction, and I suddenly realized who and what BG's road map was..by the way "Make Way.." is a spectacular album, might I add.. Gordy followed trends and Warwick ,with a fistful of hits already, was certainly a trend.

  2. #2
    "Make way for Dionne Warwick" was the connection between Motown and Scepter. It was 1964, The Supremes charted with WDOLG, it was a trend Scepter Records try to join in the success with a cover pictured Dionne in a supreme style, very adult and pushed her hit "Walk on by"

  3. #3
    Interesting thought. Yet, I prefer to not be The One to ask Dionne what she thinks about this theory.

  4. #4
    Strange that the easiest to provoke was definitely Aretha; but Dionne may be #2 or is it Gladys? Or does Gladys just stir the pot to get some press?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    Strange that the easiest to provoke was definitely Aretha; but Dionne may be #2 or is it Gladys? Or does Gladys just stir the pot to get some press?
    At least none of them ever started fights in airports by pretending to have been violated.........just to get some press!
    Last edited by marv2; 06-05-2019 at 05:38 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    Strange that the easiest to provoke was definitely Aretha; but Dionne may be #2 or is it Gladys? Or does Gladys just stir the pot to get some press?
    My take is that Gladys is more the passive-aggressive pot-stirrer; Dionne has not a second of her time to stir a pot or be passive!

  7. #7
    hahaha I believe Aretha and Dionne had a bit of a riff over being related to Whitney. It is probably best to let most of these stay buried.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    At least none of them ever started fights in airports by pretending to have been violated.........just to get some press!
    Yep, you're right. None of them did. That is really fascinating info that you supplied to this thread. Thank you

  9. #9
    What I find most interesting is that even Marv understands that Mary Wilson is not of the same stature as the other people mentioned and does not form part of the discussion
    Last edited by jobeterob; 06-06-2019 at 07:32 AM.

  10. #10
    Yet another thread threatening to explode into all out war. Twas ever thus.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by captainjames View Post
    hahaha I believe Aretha and Dionne had a bit of a riff over being related to Whitney. It is probably best to let most of these stay buried.
    I mostly agree, but as fans and supporters of all the ladies we can have fun with our silly interjections!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Yet another thread threatening to explode into all out war. Twas ever thus.
    ANY thread with Diana's name in it will churn up certain ... flotsam.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    What I find most interesting is that even Marc understands that Mary Wilson is not of the Same stature as the other people mentioned and does not form part of the discussion
    'All I can say is if I had a bell I'd be ringing'!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    ANY thread with Diana's name in it will churn up certain ... flotsam.
    And Jetsam!

  15. #15
    Ross and Warwick have one thing in common...decades spanning international superstars right up to this moment in time..

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia View Post
    Ross and Warwick have one thing in common...decades spanning international superstars right up to this moment in time..
    And more, actually. Both are ur-talented, one-of-a-kind, game-changing, instantly recognizable, iconic in beauty, intelligent and driven women.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia View Post
    Ross and Warwick have one thing in common...decades spanning international superstars right up to this moment in time..
    That is true, but itīs the only thing Dionne was a solo singer from the beginning on and Bacharach/David Compositions are more difficult to sing, we have here 2 and a half minutes little symphonis.

    On the other hand Dionne pushed in an adult "status" with her music, so the DRATS have the dynamic of young girl singing group.

    Maybe my problem is, I am a Dionne Warwick Fan and a Supremes Fan, but no Diana Ross Fan, only her first two albums have my attention produced by Nick and Val, that was a perfect sound for Diana Ross

  18. #18
    Well, I compare 1962 - 1964 we had the "No-Hit-Supremes", nobody knows where Diane Ross was, but during that time Dionne was in the sharts, but for me IMHO we canīt compare these two things, maybe with the Queen of Motown Mary Wells, when she remained with Motown and became a Diana Ross.......

  19. #19
    I have no clue as to what you're going on about, although the nonsensical Diane thing (calling someone their real name is supposed to be what? an insult!! how moronic..lol) gives me a good idea...and if you were a Supremes fan as you claim, then you were a fan of 'Diane" , since it was The Andantes providing the majority of background voices on all those 'Diane" records, while others provided window dressing on the album covers to portray the 'group' image when groups were the 'in' things, in the 60's..by the 70's, where the window dressing was concerned, 'groups' rapidly became 'gripes'...or perhaps sour 'grapes'..lol once again
    Last edited by Jimi LaLumia; 06-07-2019 at 10:25 AM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia View Post
    I have no clue as to what you're going on about, although the nonsensical Diane thing (calling someone their real name is supposed to be what? an insult!! how moronic..lol) gives me a good idea...and if you were a Supremes fan as you claim, then you were a fan of 'Diane" , since it was The Andantes providing the majority of background voices on all those 'Diane" records, while others provided window dressing on the album covers to portray the 'group' image when groups were the 'in' things, in the 60's..by the 70's, where the window dressing was concerned, 'groups' rapidly became 'gripes'...or perhaps sour 'grapes'..lol once again
    When she was born, a clerical error made when signing the birth certificate meant that she was officially registered as being called Diane Ernestine Earle Ross. This was later rectified to Diana, although many of her friends and family still call her Diane to this day, says Spring Chicken. Prior to becoming famous, Ross would often introduce herself as Diane. A similar thing happened when Diana had her own daughter. She had intended to call her Chutney, nut misspelled it as Chudney. However, she kept this spelling of the name for her daughter.



    I think it is a bit insulting to call someone something other than what they preferred to be called. A "Johnny" may eventually prefer to be called "John". A "Charlie" or "Chuck" may eventually prefer to be called "Charles"

    Diana went through her first decades being called Diane. She then preferred to be called by her legal name, "Diana". To not respect her wishes is disrespectful. If her friends still call her Diane when speaking to her and she is okay with that, then there is no problem.

    Mary calls Diana "Diane" in interviews. She then goes out of the way to explain that she always called her Diane in the early days and I guess it gives her a sense of still being connected to Diana.

    Perhaps etiquette rules have changed. When wives used to talk about the President of the US in interviews, they referred to him as The President. Nancy started the tradition of calling the President by his name "Ronnie".

    Getting back to Diana, I don't know why people who do not know Diana, call her Diane. They don't know her and some were not even alive when she was still being professionally called "Diane". So why do they do it? Perhaps to be disrespectful.

    Just my two cents and opinion.

  21. #21
    FFF referred to Diana as Diane once...and in the context of what he was talking about it does not come across as disrespect. During the so called "No Hit Supremes" period she was Diane Ross. Big deal. He/she (sorry FFF, not sure what your gender is) referred to Diana Ross by her professional name in both posts where appropriate. Me thinks some of y'all might be just a tad bit too sensitive about Miss Ross' name. If she aint trippin, why are you?

  22. #22
    I think Diana and Dionne had a lot of the same qualities that made their voices so appealing. Their unique sound, their ability to interpret, their ability to navigate between various genres. The one big difference in my mind is that Diana Ross was an all around entertainer. Give Dionne a mic and a seat and you'll enjoy yourself. Give Diana a mic and a seat and you'll still enjoy yourself. But give Diana a mic, a big stage, lights, costumes, the whole shebang and you're in for an experience that can be once in a lifetime.

    Two of the greatest voices of all time.

  23. #23
    Iīm a man born 1973 :-)))))))))))))) For me Diana Ross or Diane Ross is a part of the Supremes, we have the 70īs Supremes too and we have "The Andantes" as The other Supremes. Maybe itīs without a doubt the most succesful period of the Group with Diana Ross and I have respect for her great talent. I think at this time groups were modern in the music industry, it was easier to push a group, Diana Ross gets later this superstar modus and the tracks of Dionne have a little bit of timless flavour, thatīs my personally thoughts. We could compare a Diana Ross with Gladys Knight but not ith Dionne Warwick

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Fullfillingnessfirstfinale View Post
    Iīm a man born 1973 :-)))))))))))))) For me Diana Ross or Diane Ross is a part of the Supremes, we have the 70īs Supremes too and we have "The Andantes" as The other Supremes. Maybe itīs without a doubt the most succesful period of the Group with Diana Ross and I have respect for her great talent. I think at this time groups were modern in the music industry, it was easier to push a group, Diana Ross gets later this superstar modus and the tracks of Dionne have a little bit of timless flavour, thatīs my personally thoughts. We could compare a Diana Ross with Gladys Knight but not ith Dionne Warwick
    Alright Mister man!

    I'm confused about the last part. Why do you think Diana and Gladys are comparable but not Diana and Dionne? To my ears it's the other way around. There's nothing similar in Diana and Gladys voices or styles to compare.

    I only recently got into Dionne's voice, around 2011. Before that she was someone who I thought was talented but I didn't like her voice at all. I can't remember what song I was listening to that made me start digging deeper into her catalog and that's how I became a big Dionne Warwick fan. I now deem her to be an incredible talent.

  25. #25
    Maybe Iīm a little strict with all these things, but for me personally Diana and Gladys are superstars born out of the "Motown-Hit-Factory". Itīs easier for me to say that, then my dissapointments are not so large, who sings on which singles ? Dionne Warwick is very talented solo artists, you have different styles in different decades. I plaid piano as a child and bought the notes of the Bacharach /David compositions, I discover there are complicated songs and complicated to sing for Dionne. I donīt know such challenges for Diana Ross. I like Diana Ross but for me personally Dionne is the greater one. Which decade do you prefer from Dionneīs music ?
    I think both singer make music for different kind of audiences. Diana and Gladys started her careers with groups in the backround and I believe Berry Gordy did a lot to launch Diana as a solo star.
    Maybe the reason are the "key-tracks" of Dionne which I heard "Anyone who had a heart" and "The windows of the world" reflected my soul life again, this I hadnīt with The Supremes or Diana Ross

  26. #26
    If Diana Ross and Gladys are from the Motown Hit factory, than you can also consider that Dionne Warwick is from the Bacharach/Davis factory.
    If Dionne had different style in each decades, Diana is the same (I don't know for Gladys).
    Are Dionne songs so difficult to sing? Maybe but many singers covered these songs very well and with success.
    I like Dionne, mostly for her Bacharach catalogue but she is one of the most boring performer I'v ever seen.

  27. #27
    boring? on stage Warwick is WALLPAPER!!

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Fullfillingnessfirstfinale View Post
    Maybe Iīm a little strict with all these things, but for me personally Diana and Gladys are superstars born out of the "Motown-Hit-Factory". Itīs easier for me to say that, then my dissapointments are not so large, who sings on which singles ? Dionne Warwick is very talented solo artists, you have different styles in different decades. I plaid piano as a child and bought the notes of the Bacharach /David compositions, I discover there are complicated songs and complicated to sing for Dionne. I donīt know such challenges for Diana Ross. I like Diana Ross but for me personally Dionne is the greater one. Which decade do you prefer from Dionneīs music ?
    I think both singer make music for different kind of audiences. Diana and Gladys started her careers with groups in the backround and I believe Berry Gordy did a lot to launch Diana as a solo star.
    Maybe the reason are the "key-tracks" of Dionne which I heard "Anyone who had a heart" and "The windows of the world" reflected my soul life again, this I hadnīt with The Supremes or Diana Ross
    Interesting viewpoint. I guess it just boils down to what affects you, and how deeply it does so. Honestly when it comes to Dionne, I'm a bigger fan of her post B&D work. She sounds lovely on the stuff, but personally I've always been a bit bored and underwhelmed by a lot of their compositions that I've heard. I enjoy the work Dionne did in the 70s immensely, but believe it or not, my favorite period kicks off with "I'll Never Love This Way Again" and continues through the 80s.

    Gordy got behind Ross, but without her voice and her entertainment skills, she would've never succeeded, I don't care how much time and attention Gordy devoted to her. Would Ross have been just as big with Dionne's material? I don't think so. Not because she couldn't do it- Dionne songs might be hard to sing, but I don't think Diana has ever had a problem doing it- but because I don't think she would've ever connected to the material in the same way Dionne did. I think Dionne hooking up with B&D, and vice versa, was destiny. Which is pretty much how I view the pairing of the Supremes with HDH. Would the group have hit under another producer? I think so. Would they have become the force of music they became under another producer than HDH? No, not consistently. And I think it all boils down to Diana and Dionne's uniqueness as vocalist. Someone like Gladys could probably get a hit while sitting on the toilet. Voices like Diana and Dionne need particular attention, not because they are any less singers, but because their voices have a certain special quality that had to be mastered by someone so that any subsequent producers would have a blueprint on what and what not to do.

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Interesting viewpoint. I guess it just boils down to what affects you, and how deeply it does so. Honestly when it comes to Dionne, I'm a bigger fan of her post B&D work. She sounds lovely on the stuff, but personally I've always been a bit bored and underwhelmed by a lot of their compositions that I've heard. I enjoy the work Dionne did in the 70s immensely, but believe it or not, my favorite period kicks off with "I'll Never Love This Way Again" and continues through the 80s.

    Gordy got behind Ross, but without her voice and her entertainment skills, she would've never succeeded, I don't care how much time and attention Gordy devoted to her. Would Ross have been just as big with Dionne's material? I don't think so. Not because she couldn't do it- Dionne songs might be hard to sing, but I don't think Diana has ever had a problem doing it- but because I don't think she would've ever connected to the material in the same way Dionne did. I think Dionne hooking up with B&D, and vice versa, was destiny. Which is pretty much how I view the pairing of the Supremes with HDH. Would the group have hit under another producer? I think so. Would they have become the force of music they became under another producer than HDH? No, not consistently. And I think it all boils down to Diana and Dionne's uniqueness as vocalist. Someone like Gladys could probably get a hit while sitting on the toilet. Voices like Diana and Dionne need particular attention, not because they are any less singers, but because their voices have a certain special quality that had to be mastered by someone so that any subsequent producers would have a blueprint on what and what not to do.
    Lol, RanRan. I knew you'd comment on this. You and I have agreed in a past thread about the subjectivity of judgements on singers and vocal talent. We definitely agree about Diana Ross.
    Dionne Warwick is a favorite (top 5)but I appreciate her Bacharach/David work most, maybe because I'm older and grew up in the 60's. I do like her 1979 album produced by Barry Manilow very much. It is one of the few that I can listen to the whole album.
    Gladys Knight is another favorite (top 10) but I really didn't need the toilet seat image. You have offended my sensibilities once before, but thankfully I can't recall it.

  30. #30
    Both are talented singers and youīre right ranran with the argument, that not only Berry Gordy was responsible for Dianaīs success, she worked hard and was very talented. Because Iīm a Dionne Warwick-Fan Iīm not so familiar with Dianaīs career, one of the later albums which I prefer was "The force behind the power". I canīt say if there some bad albums by her. Itīs interesting that nobody say something about Dionneīs Warner Bros years, escpecially the HDH album. Until today I canīt say it is amazing or the greatest worst thing she ever recorded and that point makes it special and sophisticated. My favorite track is an album track "Donīt burn the bridge (that you took across)" Every time, when I hear it, I think HDH try to do a B/D thing with her. I would be very curious, if Diana Ross handle the material of "Just being myself"

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by lucky2012 View Post
    Lol, RanRan. I knew you'd comment on this. You and I have agreed in a past thread about the subjectivity of judgements on singers and vocal talent. We definitely agree about Diana Ross.
    Dionne Warwick is a favorite (top 5)but I appreciate her Bacharach/David work most, maybe because I'm older and grew up in the 60's. I do like her 1979 album produced by Barry Manilow very much. It is one of the few that I can listen to the whole album.
    Gladys Knight is another favorite (top 10) but I really didn't need the toilet seat image. You have offended my sensibilities once before, but thankfully I can't recall it.
    Ha! What can I say? It's the best way I could put it in order to get my point across. Gladys possessed the type of voice that I think is excellently categorized as a "producer's dream". It's not that her voice isn't unique, it is. When you hear Gladys, you know it's Gladys. But what she's able to do with her voice, I think pairing her with any good producer would yield good results. Diana and Dionne have limits to their abilities- which doesn't make them any less of a singer- and couple that with how different they sound compared to many other voices and I think it's harder for a producer (in the early days) to nail down a sound. After B&D I think many producers had an idea of what to do with Dionne, even when taking her completely out of that pop/MOR sound. Same with HDH, after them I think producers figured out a groove for Ross, so people as different as Ashford and Simpson, Michael Masser and Nile Rodgers could get hits off of her.

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Fullfillingnessfirstfinale View Post
    Both are talented singers and youīre right ranran with the argument, that not only Berry Gordy was responsible for Dianaīs success, she worked hard and was very talented. Because Iīm a Dionne Warwick-Fan Iīm not so familiar with Dianaīs career, one of the later albums which I prefer was "The force behind the power". I canīt say if there some bad albums by her. Itīs interesting that nobody say something about Dionneīs Warner Bros years, escpecially the HDH album. Until today I canīt say it is amazing or the greatest worst thing she ever recorded and that point makes it special and sophisticated. My favorite track is an album track "Donīt burn the bridge (that you took across)" Every time, when I hear it, I think HDH try to do a B/D thing with her. I would be very curious, if Diana Ross handle the material of "Just being myself"
    Dionne's Just Being Myself is my favorite of the Warner Bros albums. I think with a different mix, most of those songs Diana could've done without a problem. But Dionne's Arista period is where it's at for me.

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Dionne's Just Being Myself is my favorite of the Warner Bros albums. I think with a different mix, most of those songs Diana could've done without a problem. But Dionne's Arista period is where it's at for me.
    I love Dionne's Warner albums. She sounded sensational and the material was for the most part excellent. I especially love the "Track of the cat"and "Then came you" albums. She should have had many more substantial hits at Warners.

  34. #34
    Dionne's success was every bit built by Barchach/David as was Diana's by Motown. And both matched, then transcended, those initial successes and became extraordinary, singular vocalists.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    Dionne's success was every bit built by Barchach/David as was Diana's by Motown. And both matched, then transcended, those initial successes and became extraordinary, singular vocalists.
    Yeah but Dionne Warwick was a solo singer from the very beginning and started hits by herself in 1962. Diane had help from Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard. She did not get her solo hit until 1970.

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    Dionne's success was every bit built by Barchach/David as was Diana's by Motown. And both matched, then transcended, those initial successes and became extraordinary, singular vocalists.
    Thatīs true

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