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  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Ok give me your definition of "superstar", because I can pick out at least a dozen of them from the Stax roster.
    While Stax artists were huge from a music fans (particularly R&B and Soul music fans) point of view...the entire Stax operation lacked the type of promotional expertise Motown developed which was able to elevate it's artists on the broader national and international stage... Stax as a business model was ultimately a failure, despite the success of several of it's artists individually. The business was so screwed up that nobody even knew who owned what, and artists signing with Stax in the later years didnlt even realize that Stax did not even own the material... Berry Gordy studied the business from several angles which is what contributed to the reason we are celebrating Motown and it's artists 60 years later...

  2. #52
    Thank you Stu! That's all I was saying. I wasn't trying to hate Stax but to act it was huge as Motown is taking things too far. Jesus...


  3. #53
    I agree that Motown was king above all but I do think that Stax was a junior version of Motown

    A bunch of young artists making great music in an unusual location (neighborhood house and converted local movie theater)

    I do believe that those locations are a big part of the appeal/mystique of the labels

    If stax made the same music in a studio in downtown Memphis and Motown never had the west grand house but was always in their later downtown building (Woodward?) I’m not sure that their stories play out the same way

  4. #54
    A big part of the Lionel Ritchie Question is what do you think of when you think Motown?

    I think of a bunch of young 20 somethings in the Detroit house that changed the world

    That is 90% of Motown to me

    Most of 70s Motown is Stevie, Marvin and J5

    80s Motown to me frankly is mostly just Motown 25

    And after that I don’t think of anyone as “Motown”

    It’s much the same to me with Stax, I think the movie theater in Memphis even a lot of their hits that were recorded elsewhere I think of the theater

    I know that Stax is an active label now and until the above post I had no idea who was on it

    Motown and Stax are two label where a lions share of their legacy and impact were made in a very specific time and place

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimal Saint View Post
    I agree that Motown was king above all but I do think that Stax was a junior version of Motown

    A bunch of young artists making great music in an unusual location (neighborhood house and converted local movie theater)

    I do believe that those locations are a big part of the appeal/mystique of the labels

    If stax made the same music in a studio in downtown Memphis and Motown never had the west grand house but was always in their later downtown building (Woodward?) I’m not sure that their stories play out the same way
    Creatively, perhaps up to a point...albeit for a relatively shorter period of time...but from an entrepreneur, promotional, and legacy standpoint...not even close...

  6. #56
    Oh I agree

    For me the only labels that really qualify for having “The (blank) Story” in the public’s consciousness is Motown, Stax and PIR

    The Motown Story, the Stax Story the Philadelphia international story (and Motown is miles ahead of both Stax and Philly)

    No one else comes close to me

    The Hi Records Story?

    The Brunswick Story?

    The Backbeat Story?

    The Curtom Story?

    The Atlantic Story? (Possibly, I know the artists but I never think of them as a collective, I don’t think of Aretha, Wilson Pickett and Solomon as “Atlantic” not the same way Marvin Stevie and Smokey are Motown, Otis Isaac and johnnie are Stax, O’Jays, blue notes and MFSB are PIR)

  7. #57
    If you are going to tell those worthy stories...why forget SOLAR...The Dick Griffey and Don Cornelius label? Shalimar, Midnight Star, The Whispers, The Sylvers, Lakeside, Klymaxx, Babyface, O'Bryan, and more... A bit later era, but some significant recording projects, with Don Cornelius there to promote the artists...

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Thank you Stu! That's all I was saying. I wasn't trying to hate Stax but to act it was huge as Motown is taking things too far. Jesus...

    You are being disingenuous here. I don't see where anyone was acting as if Stax was a big as Motown. Go find where that was said. I know all I said was that Stax was pretty strong during that era too. That is a fact! Why did try to turn that simple, truthful statement into a competition, an argument?

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by StuBass1 View Post
    Creatively, perhaps up to a point...albeit for a relatively shorter period of time...but from an entrepreneur, promotional, and legacy standpoint...not even close...
    Stax was pretty influential but I never got the Motown comparisons. The impact with Stax was massive but not enough where the entire world was shook. That's why Motown's classic years still get mainstream headlines today.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by StuBass1 View Post
    If you are going to tell those worthy stories...why forget SOLAR...The Dick Griffey and Don Cornelius label? Shalimar, Midnight Star, The Whispers, The Sylvers, Lakeside, Klymaxx, Babyface, O'Bryan, and more... A bit later era, but some significant recording projects, with Don Cornelius there to promote the artists...
    No one hardly talks about SOLAR. And why? I don't know!

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    You are being disingenuous here. I don't see where anyone was acting as if Stax was a big as Motown. Go find where that was said. I know all I said was that Stax was pretty strong during that era too. That is a fact! Why did try to turn that simple, truthful statement into a competition, an argument?
    And I was agreeing with you but some of your posts seem to indicate that Stax was as big as Motown as far as impact and that was simply not true. Nothing personal lol

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimal Saint View Post
    A big part of the Lionel Ritchie Question is what do you think of when you think Motown?

    I think of a bunch of young 20 somethings in the Detroit house that changed the world

    That is 90% of Motown to me

    Most of 70s Motown is Stevie, Marvin and J5

    80s Motown to me frankly is mostly just Motown 25

    And after that I don’t think of anyone as “Motown”

    It’s much the same to me with Stax, I think the movie theater in Memphis even a lot of their hits that were recorded elsewhere I think of the theater

    I know that Stax is an active label now and until the above post I had no idea who was on it

    Motown and Stax are two label where a lions share of their legacy and impact were made in a very specific time and place
    I think where Stax falls short is by the time they established their sound, Otis was dead and the death of King there definitely made things tense so by the time Isaac Hayes blew up as a solo artist, the label was already at a crossroads. Motown built up their sound for a decade and a half and crossed over to the mainstream in ways other R&B labels hadn't before. Stax was pretty damn great for what they did but I wouldn't call it "Motown Jr." though the label obviously was inspired by Motown no doubt.

  13. #63
    Does Lionel think "Motown" when he thinks of himself??

    He seems to have distanced himself from the association. Or do I have that wrong ? Can't picture him participating at recent Motown functions...
    Didn't he end his tenure at Motown abruptly and when he was still hot? When he came back years later he was on Mercury.
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 04-21-2019 at 12:51 AM.

  14. #64
    I don't know. Don't seem like it. It seems so odd to call him a Motown legend even though technically that's what he is. But I've heard people call him a "soul legend" too so IDK... I don't think he distances himself but more so he really doesn't belong in "the association" as much as the other artists who were there years earlier. The Jackson family, for example, don't seem to be part of the association as much either despite the '60s history because, like Lionel, they were out-of-state. Marvin Gaye was looked on differently because he came to the label when it was in its infancy so therefore he would be as connected to the Motown Sound as well as Detroit. Can't say the same for the Tuskegee, Alabama-born Lionel.

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