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  1. #51
    hehehehehehehehehe!

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    I don't know how upset Diana could really be about the rape because I believe there are court documents in Detroit on this case. going off of my memory here but i believe Bayou on here mentioned that Flo actually testified in front of her attacker. So technically it's a matter of public record

    that said, it could still be a point of taste and level of appropriateness to bring up such a deeply personal story for someone other than yourself

    but then given the potential impact it had on Flo and her personal and mental well-being and how she handled the highly stressful work load of a Supreme might have deemed it necessary. all of the books talk about Flo's moodiness and how her personality really controlled how everyone handled her. and with the massively stressful and high-pressure career, it at least provides some explanation as to why she was struggling so much
    Could be or are we mistaking Flo for Tammi??? But she may have identified him? I don't know.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Could be or are we mistaking Flo for Tammi??? But she may have identified him? I don't know.
    Florence identified Reggie. He was later shot to death in the street in Detroit in 1972.

  4. #54
    Maxine wrote that Flo told her family and days later they found out that the rapist had been beaten up. She says that's the only "justice" Flo got in the situation and makes no mention of the law getting involved. Mary wrote about Flo going to the cops and testifying in court. Only she can say what source she used for this. Maxine's book isn't well put together, and she jumps around so much that it'll make your head spin, but I can't see her devoting any portion of her book to Flo's rape and leave out how brave her sister was for going to the cops and testifying in court, both of which would've been rare for any female during that time, but especially rare for a Black female, and even rarer for a poor Black female. I don't think anything other than street justice happened in this case.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    I don't know how upset Diana could really be about the rape because I believe there are court documents in Detroit on this case. going off of my memory here but i believe Bayou on here mentioned that Flo actually testified in front of her attacker. So technically it's a matter of public record

    that said, it could still be a point of taste and level of appropriateness to bring up such a deeply personal story for someone other than yourself

    but then given the potential impact it had on Flo and her personal and mental well-being and how she handled the highly stressful work load of a Supreme might have deemed it necessary. all of the books talk about Flo's moodiness and how her personality really controlled how everyone handled her. and with the massively stressful and high-pressure career, it at least provides some explanation as to why she was struggling so much
    If it was indeed a case, it was a case involving a juvenile. I don't know how public that record would be.

  6. #56
    Wow...

    So Mary and her sister had different accounts!

    Wow...

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Maxine wrote that Flo told her family and days later they found out that the rapist had been beaten up. She says that's the only "justice" Flo got in the situation and makes no mention of the law getting involved. Mary wrote about Flo going to the cops and testifying in court. Only she can say what source she used for this. Maxine's book isn't well put together, and she jumps around so much that it'll make your head spin, but I can't see her devoting any portion of her book to Flo's rape and leave out how brave her sister was for going to the cops and testifying in court, both of which would've been rare for any female during that time, but especially rare for a Black female, and even rarer for a poor Black female. I don't think anything other than street justice happened in this case.
    This was one of the things that confused me when I read Maxine's book. Its quite a leap from saying someone sent their assailant to prison to saying the assailant just received a thorough beat-down.

    In a 1986/1987 Players article, Mary was asked something about whether she had received any negative feedback from revealing Flo's rape. I don't remember her entire answer, but she did mention that Flo's family wasn't happy about it.
    Last edited by reese; 04-25-2019 at 11:34 AM.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    This was one of the things that confused me when I read Maxine's book. Its quite a leap from saying someone sent their assailant to prison to the assailant just receiving a thorough beat-down.

    In a 1986/1987 Players article, Mary was asked something about whether she had received any negative feedback from revealing Flo's rape. I don't remember her entire answer, but she did mention that Flo's family wasn't happy about it.

    I have that Players Magazine. Reggie Harding played pro basketball for the Pistons and before that a semi pro team in Toledo. He was still a thug all the while. Robbing people etc. After he was shot and killed, they had a tough time burying him. He was 6'8" and somehow his grave was dug several inches too short! LOL! That held things up a bit.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    This was one of the things that confused me when I read Maxine's book. Its quite a leap from saying someone sent their assailant to prison to saying the assailant just received a thorough beat-down.

    In a 1986/1987 Players article, Mary was asked something about whether she had received any negative feedback from revealing Flo's rape. I don't remember her entire answer, but she did mention that Flo's family wasn't happy about it.
    As a fan and admirer of Flo's work, and thus find Flo an interesting person, I'm glad to have some insight into some of what might have been going on in her mind during the point when her time with the group became so tumultuous. But it boggles my mind that Mary would feel so free to offer this information to the word without at least speaking to the family first and finding out how they might feel about it. Did Flo's daughters even know what happened to her prior to Mary's announcement? I always give Mary credit for not touching the subject of Rhonda's paternity, which I'm sure she was as convinced as a lot of other people and probably had more inside information about Rhonda's bio dad. On the flip I lost a lot of respect for Raynoma when I read that she announced to the world Rhonda's paternity on national tv. How low down and dirty can you be? But Mary should have recognized how sensitive and personal a subject rape is and asked the Ballards for permission to go there. Water under the bridge now of course, as they appear to have forgiven her and moved on.

  10. #60
    but i think mary's rationale was that there needed to be the incident in order to tie that to Flo's gradual deterioration and inability to cope with the problems that arose. otherwise it sort of just makes her look like a mental case. It helps to also build the victim story

  11. #61
    I might get my head bitten off for this: but I really do believe Flo had an undiagnosed bipolar disorder. The way Mary and Diana have written about her rollercoaster moods and how one minute she'd explode about something then after exploding she'd act like nothing was wrong.

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    This was one of the things that confused me when I read Maxine's book. Its quite a leap from saying someone sent their assailant to prison to saying the assailant just received a thorough beat-down.

    In a 1986/1987 Players article, Mary was asked something about whether she had received any negative feedback from revealing Flo's rape. I don't remember her entire answer, but she did mention that Flo's family wasn't happy about it.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by floyjoy678 View Post
    I might get my head bitten off for this: but I really do believe Flo had an undiagnosed bipolar disorder. The way Mary and Diana have written about her rollercoaster moods and how one minute she'd explode about something then after exploding she'd act like nothing was wrong.
    As someone who loves Florence Ballard, I agree she was probably bipolar. It explains her mood swings. Both Diana and Mary wrote that they couldn't deal with her mood swings. You definitely won't get your head bitten off for that. All three women dealt with issues their own way. All three were VERY YOUNG when they became instant superstars in 1964 and dealt with success their own ways. It was harder to deal with for other people (Flo) than others (Diana & Mary in their own ways).

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    but i think mary's rationale was that there needed to be the incident in order to tie that to Flo's gradual deterioration and inability to cope with the problems that arose. otherwise it sort of just makes her look like a mental case. It helps to also build the victim story
    Mary must've been put into a pickle though. Especially if she was told to make the bio "more sensational" (though it's true that Diana was pretty much a hustler and she had the talent to back up that hustling lol). But she probably knew she would get the wrath of some Motown fans, some DR fans and Flo's family. This was 1986 too. Everyone's tea was starting to come out in the '80s. Mommy Dearest had come out in the late 70s and that started many celebrities' relatives and whomever to write books on legendary celebrities.

  15. #65
    ^exactly midnight - on both of your posts

    I don't think there's anything wrong with guessing or suggesting that Flo might have been bipolar or had mental issues. it's not a sin or frankly uncommon. lots of people suffer from that and it's just unfortunate that during the 60s people didn't understand issues of mental health like they do today. Everyone tried to deal with things as best they could and of course, mistakes were sometimes made

    And yes, i think just like Call Her Miss Ross, Dreamgirls is a product of it's time. perhaps if the book was written later, it might have been less sensational

  16. #66
    I don’t believe a lot of what Mary says. He books are full of lies and incorrect innuendo. I don’t believe she was told to sensationalize it - it was written from wrath and financial need, not coercion. There’s no way any publisher would refuse a Supreme autobiography because it didn’t have enough dirt. Remember this is the same woman who stood outside of Spago in 1989 crying into a TV camera asking “what did I ever do to her?” She’s shameless in this respect. Outing the rape was so wrong - Flo’s kids were teenagers then - they didn’t need any of their moms’s Privacy spread around like that. They could get made fun of at school for having a drunk mom. Kids can be vicious.

    Mary just makes up stuff as she chooses. She’s now claiming to have coined “no-hit Supremes” how stupid is that? After years of saying how hurtful it was to be called that, now she’s claiming she made it up! And like many of her lies, it doesn’t make sense. Nobody who is in a group that’s trying to make it while many of those around her are doing better are going to call attention to the fact by coining a phrase like that. It’s absurd. Not that it’s a big deal, but it shows you two things about her character:
    1) She’ll say ANYTHING.
    2) She’s so into her storytelling and need for approval that she’ll claim ownership of No-hit Supremes when it makes her look idiotic for coining it - let alone bragging about it.

  17. #67
    I don't know if it was bipolar. Nothing has been written about Florence having mood swings until about 1966 when everything began to spiral out of control. I'm thinking that her mood swings had something to do with the diet pills she often took during this time. What does seem apparent is that Florence suffered from depression off and on which seems to have kicked in after her rape. When her life got hectic- and the Supremes in 1966 was on an almost entirely different type of schedule than that of the Supremes of 1965- and the drama with Gordy and Ross started up, she started self medicating. Diet pills which cause heavy mood swings, depression kicking in because of the deterioration of her relationships with Gordy and Ross, and then alcohol mixed in just exacerbated all of the problems.

    It's hard to diagnose someone years after they're deceased, but Flo's life reads to me like a woman depressed who found herself addicted to alcohol. What bothers me is the comments that are sometimes made that paints this picture of Flo as someone who didn't want to be a singer or didn't want to be a star or a woman who didn't have the drive to put in the work, and the events of 1966-67 are usually what is pointed to in order to back up the claim. But if you know anything about depression, depression often won't allow a person to enjoy what they once enjoyed or be as motivated as they once were. Not because it's not in them, but because the mental condition takes over. Some folks depression is so crippling that they find it hard to get out of bed. Every account of Florence prior to 1966 is a woman who managed to make it to every show, every recording session, every photo session, every interview, same as Diana and Mary, until about 1966, which is when her depression symptoms really seem to ramp up. Then on top of it she becomes an alcoholic. It's difficult to be yourself when you have a mental issue and a substance abuse issue beating on your back. Had Flo gotten psychiatric help as a Supreme or consistently after she left the group, I think her story, both personal and music career, would've been extremely different.

  18. #68
    I don't think Flo didn't have the drive. She was very charismatic and charming during those early years especially on those first Hullabaloo and Shindig appearances. I'd say sometime after the Copa is when she starts to look bored and disinterested in the video clips. I believe Flo saw where the group was headed and just decided the hard work wasn't worth it if it wasn't going to benefit the whole group.

  19. #69
    Yeah Flo was cool the first two years. By mid 66 though she got tired of it

  20. #70
    Hopefully she would have overcome her demons and be living a happy and productive life. But then the Diana-Deniers would have one less illusion in their arsenal.

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i think Flo would have been snubbed for 25. there was just too much, IMO, still bitter between her and Berry. But then eventually i think there would have been some sort of reconciliation with Berry. like how Martha and others did. and then things would have been better for subsequent Motown specials.
    I donít know about snubbed. At the time of her death, Berry was the one who gave her a final settlement offer to buy her home. Not a slip and fall

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by ballardfan67 View Post
    I don’t know about snubbed. At the time of her death, Berry was the one who gave her a final settlement offer to buy her home. Not a slip and fall
    No the settlement did not come from Berry Gordy. It has been said that it came from a slip and fall lawsuit Flo had. The other story I heard is that it was from a suit against her former attorney Braun. I believe the slip and fall lawsuit is where the money came from. Berry Gordy paid for Florence's funeral.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by ballardfan67 View Post
    I donít know about snubbed. At the time of her death, Berry was the one who gave her a final settlement offer to buy her home. Not a slip and fall
    I think she had a settlement with the lawyer who ran off with her money from her Motown exit.

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    No the settlement did not come from Berry Gordy. It has been said that it came from a slip and fall lawsuit Flo had. The other story I heard is that it was from a suit against her former attorney Braun. I believe the slip and fall lawsuit is where the money came from. Berry Gordy paid for Florence's funeral.
    Well Marv I think the important variable is that she didnít die in poverty as depicted in many bios of her life. Pvt me for the details if you like. My co worker back in Detroit was friends with Flo until the end. She was a singer in a NYC band that you will be completely familiar with!! Letís catch up soon.

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