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  1. #51
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    hehehehehehehehehe!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    I don't know how upset Diana could really be about the rape because I believe there are court documents in Detroit on this case. going off of my memory here but i believe Bayou on here mentioned that Flo actually testified in front of her attacker. So technically it's a matter of public record

    that said, it could still be a point of taste and level of appropriateness to bring up such a deeply personal story for someone other than yourself

    but then given the potential impact it had on Flo and her personal and mental well-being and how she handled the highly stressful work load of a Supreme might have deemed it necessary. all of the books talk about Flo's moodiness and how her personality really controlled how everyone handled her. and with the massively stressful and high-pressure career, it at least provides some explanation as to why she was struggling so much
    Could be or are we mistaking Flo for Tammi??? But she may have identified him? I don't know.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Could be or are we mistaking Flo for Tammi??? But she may have identified him? I don't know.
    Florence identified Reggie. He was later shot to death in the street in Detroit in 1972.

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    Maxine wrote that Flo told her family and days later they found out that the rapist had been beaten up. She says that's the only "justice" Flo got in the situation and makes no mention of the law getting involved. Mary wrote about Flo going to the cops and testifying in court. Only she can say what source she used for this. Maxine's book isn't well put together, and she jumps around so much that it'll make your head spin, but I can't see her devoting any portion of her book to Flo's rape and leave out how brave her sister was for going to the cops and testifying in court, both of which would've been rare for any female during that time, but especially rare for a Black female, and even rarer for a poor Black female. I don't think anything other than street justice happened in this case.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    I don't know how upset Diana could really be about the rape because I believe there are court documents in Detroit on this case. going off of my memory here but i believe Bayou on here mentioned that Flo actually testified in front of her attacker. So technically it's a matter of public record

    that said, it could still be a point of taste and level of appropriateness to bring up such a deeply personal story for someone other than yourself

    but then given the potential impact it had on Flo and her personal and mental well-being and how she handled the highly stressful work load of a Supreme might have deemed it necessary. all of the books talk about Flo's moodiness and how her personality really controlled how everyone handled her. and with the massively stressful and high-pressure career, it at least provides some explanation as to why she was struggling so much
    If it was indeed a case, it was a case involving a juvenile. I don't know how public that record would be.

  6. #56
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    Wow...

    So Mary and her sister had different accounts!

    Wow...

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Maxine wrote that Flo told her family and days later they found out that the rapist had been beaten up. She says that's the only "justice" Flo got in the situation and makes no mention of the law getting involved. Mary wrote about Flo going to the cops and testifying in court. Only she can say what source she used for this. Maxine's book isn't well put together, and she jumps around so much that it'll make your head spin, but I can't see her devoting any portion of her book to Flo's rape and leave out how brave her sister was for going to the cops and testifying in court, both of which would've been rare for any female during that time, but especially rare for a Black female, and even rarer for a poor Black female. I don't think anything other than street justice happened in this case.
    This was one of the things that confused me when I read Maxine's book. Its quite a leap from saying someone sent their assailant to prison to saying the assailant just received a thorough beat-down.

    In a 1986/1987 Players article, Mary was asked something about whether she had received any negative feedback from revealing Flo's rape. I don't remember her entire answer, but she did mention that Flo's family wasn't happy about it.
    Last edited by reese; 04-25-2019 at 11:34 AM.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    This was one of the things that confused me when I read Maxine's book. Its quite a leap from saying someone sent their assailant to prison to the assailant just receiving a thorough beat-down.

    In a 1986/1987 Players article, Mary was asked something about whether she had received any negative feedback from revealing Flo's rape. I don't remember her entire answer, but she did mention that Flo's family wasn't happy about it.

    I have that Players Magazine. Reggie Harding played pro basketball for the Pistons and before that a semi pro team in Toledo. He was still a thug all the while. Robbing people etc. After he was shot and killed, they had a tough time burying him. He was 6'8" and somehow his grave was dug several inches too short! LOL! That held things up a bit.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    This was one of the things that confused me when I read Maxine's book. Its quite a leap from saying someone sent their assailant to prison to saying the assailant just received a thorough beat-down.

    In a 1986/1987 Players article, Mary was asked something about whether she had received any negative feedback from revealing Flo's rape. I don't remember her entire answer, but she did mention that Flo's family wasn't happy about it.
    As a fan and admirer of Flo's work, and thus find Flo an interesting person, I'm glad to have some insight into some of what might have been going on in her mind during the point when her time with the group became so tumultuous. But it boggles my mind that Mary would feel so free to offer this information to the word without at least speaking to the family first and finding out how they might feel about it. Did Flo's daughters even know what happened to her prior to Mary's announcement? I always give Mary credit for not touching the subject of Rhonda's paternity, which I'm sure she was as convinced as a lot of other people and probably had more inside information about Rhonda's bio dad. On the flip I lost a lot of respect for Raynoma when I read that she announced to the world Rhonda's paternity on national tv. How low down and dirty can you be? But Mary should have recognized how sensitive and personal a subject rape is and asked the Ballards for permission to go there. Water under the bridge now of course, as they appear to have forgiven her and moved on.

  10. #60
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    but i think mary's rationale was that there needed to be the incident in order to tie that to Flo's gradual deterioration and inability to cope with the problems that arose. otherwise it sort of just makes her look like a mental case. It helps to also build the victim story

  11. #61
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    I might get my head bitten off for this: but I really do believe Flo had an undiagnosed bipolar disorder. The way Mary and Diana have written about her rollercoaster moods and how one minute she'd explode about something then after exploding she'd act like nothing was wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    This was one of the things that confused me when I read Maxine's book. Its quite a leap from saying someone sent their assailant to prison to saying the assailant just received a thorough beat-down.

    In a 1986/1987 Players article, Mary was asked something about whether she had received any negative feedback from revealing Flo's rape. I don't remember her entire answer, but she did mention that Flo's family wasn't happy about it.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by floyjoy678 View Post
    I might get my head bitten off for this: but I really do believe Flo had an undiagnosed bipolar disorder. The way Mary and Diana have written about her rollercoaster moods and how one minute she'd explode about something then after exploding she'd act like nothing was wrong.
    As someone who loves Florence Ballard, I agree she was probably bipolar. It explains her mood swings. Both Diana and Mary wrote that they couldn't deal with her mood swings. You definitely won't get your head bitten off for that. All three women dealt with issues their own way. All three were VERY YOUNG when they became instant superstars in 1964 and dealt with success their own ways. It was harder to deal with for other people [[Flo) than others [[Diana & Mary in their own ways).

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    but i think mary's rationale was that there needed to be the incident in order to tie that to Flo's gradual deterioration and inability to cope with the problems that arose. otherwise it sort of just makes her look like a mental case. It helps to also build the victim story
    Mary must've been put into a pickle though. Especially if she was told to make the bio "more sensational" [[though it's true that Diana was pretty much a hustler and she had the talent to back up that hustling lol). But she probably knew she would get the wrath of some Motown fans, some DR fans and Flo's family. This was 1986 too. Everyone's tea was starting to come out in the '80s. Mommy Dearest had come out in the late 70s and that started many celebrities' relatives and whomever to write books on legendary celebrities.

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    ^exactly midnight - on both of your posts

    I don't think there's anything wrong with guessing or suggesting that Flo might have been bipolar or had mental issues. it's not a sin or frankly uncommon. lots of people suffer from that and it's just unfortunate that during the 60s people didn't understand issues of mental health like they do today. Everyone tried to deal with things as best they could and of course, mistakes were sometimes made

    And yes, i think just like Call Her Miss Ross, Dreamgirls is a product of it's time. perhaps if the book was written later, it might have been less sensational

  16. #66
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    I don’t believe a lot of what Mary says. He books are full of lies and incorrect innuendo. I don’t believe she was told to sensationalize it - it was written from wrath and financial need, not coercion. There’s no way any publisher would refuse a Supreme autobiography because it didn’t have enough dirt. Remember this is the same woman who stood outside of Spago in 1989 crying into a TV camera asking “what did I ever do to her?” She’s shameless in this respect. Outing the rape was so wrong - Flo’s kids were teenagers then - they didn’t need any of their moms’s Privacy spread around like that. They could get made fun of at school for having a drunk mom. Kids can be vicious.

    Mary just makes up stuff as she chooses. She’s now claiming to have coined “no-hit Supremes” how stupid is that? After years of saying how hurtful it was to be called that, now she’s claiming she made it up! And like many of her lies, it doesn’t make sense. Nobody who is in a group that’s trying to make it while many of those around her are doing better are going to call attention to the fact by coining a phrase like that. It’s absurd. Not that it’s a big deal, but it shows you two things about her character:
    1) She’ll say ANYTHING.
    2) She’s so into her storytelling and need for approval that she’ll claim ownership of No-hit Supremes when it makes her look idiotic for coining it - let alone bragging about it.

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    I don't know if it was bipolar. Nothing has been written about Florence having mood swings until about 1966 when everything began to spiral out of control. I'm thinking that her mood swings had something to do with the diet pills she often took during this time. What does seem apparent is that Florence suffered from depression off and on which seems to have kicked in after her rape. When her life got hectic- and the Supremes in 1966 was on an almost entirely different type of schedule than that of the Supremes of 1965- and the drama with Gordy and Ross started up, she started self medicating. Diet pills which cause heavy mood swings, depression kicking in because of the deterioration of her relationships with Gordy and Ross, and then alcohol mixed in just exacerbated all of the problems.

    It's hard to diagnose someone years after they're deceased, but Flo's life reads to me like a woman depressed who found herself addicted to alcohol. What bothers me is the comments that are sometimes made that paints this picture of Flo as someone who didn't want to be a singer or didn't want to be a star or a woman who didn't have the drive to put in the work, and the events of 1966-67 are usually what is pointed to in order to back up the claim. But if you know anything about depression, depression often won't allow a person to enjoy what they once enjoyed or be as motivated as they once were. Not because it's not in them, but because the mental condition takes over. Some folks depression is so crippling that they find it hard to get out of bed. Every account of Florence prior to 1966 is a woman who managed to make it to every show, every recording session, every photo session, every interview, same as Diana and Mary, until about 1966, which is when her depression symptoms really seem to ramp up. Then on top of it she becomes an alcoholic. It's difficult to be yourself when you have a mental issue and a substance abuse issue beating on your back. Had Flo gotten psychiatric help as a Supreme or consistently after she left the group, I think her story, both personal and music career, would've been extremely different.

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    I don't think Flo didn't have the drive. She was very charismatic and charming during those early years especially on those first Hullabaloo and Shindig appearances. I'd say sometime after the Copa is when she starts to look bored and disinterested in the video clips. I believe Flo saw where the group was headed and just decided the hard work wasn't worth it if it wasn't going to benefit the whole group.

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    Yeah Flo was cool the first two years. By mid 66 though she got tired of it

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    Hopefully she would have overcome her demons and be living a happy and productive life. But then the Diana-Deniers would have one less illusion in their arsenal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i think Flo would have been snubbed for 25. there was just too much, IMO, still bitter between her and Berry. But then eventually i think there would have been some sort of reconciliation with Berry. like how Martha and others did. and then things would have been better for subsequent Motown specials.
    I don’t know about snubbed. At the time of her death, Berry was the one who gave her a final settlement offer to buy her home. Not a slip and fall

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballardfan67 View Post
    I don’t know about snubbed. At the time of her death, Berry was the one who gave her a final settlement offer to buy her home. Not a slip and fall
    No the settlement did not come from Berry Gordy. It has been said that it came from a slip and fall lawsuit Flo had. The other story I heard is that it was from a suit against her former attorney Braun. I believe the slip and fall lawsuit is where the money came from. Berry Gordy paid for Florence's funeral.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballardfan67 View Post
    I don’t know about snubbed. At the time of her death, Berry was the one who gave her a final settlement offer to buy her home. Not a slip and fall
    I think she had a settlement with the lawyer who ran off with her money from her Motown exit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    No the settlement did not come from Berry Gordy. It has been said that it came from a slip and fall lawsuit Flo had. The other story I heard is that it was from a suit against her former attorney Braun. I believe the slip and fall lawsuit is where the money came from. Berry Gordy paid for Florence's funeral.
    Well Marv I think the important variable is that she didn’t die in poverty as depicted in many bios of her life. Pvt me for the details if you like. My co worker back in Detroit was friends with Flo until the end. She was a singer in a NYC band that you will be completely familiar with!! Let’s catch up soon.

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    Right I know about the lawsuit, however I have read as well that there was a last settlement given to her by Motown,plus Tommy was given a job by Berry after Flos death. definately not disputing what you are saying

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    back to M25....in retrospect, it would have been smarter to have a Supremes reunion with Jean....Up The Ladder/ Stoned Love....Diana could have had her star entrance as she did with Ain't No Mountain and then reunited briefly with Mary and Cindy for Someday We'll Be Together...cant blame MW for being upset...it was supposed to be the grand highlight, and DR decided to minimalize it...it seemed to say "I'm here, that's all that matters"...Look carefully at the footage...DR got lost, Mary picked up the lead, and turned to Diana palm out to hand it back to her. Suzanne should have pulled Diana aside, and enlightened her about the situation, and the pending bad public and professional reputation the change she initiated would cause a bit

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    A simple act. Berry Gordy when he sold Motown to MCA could have given Florence Ballard's children a small sum.

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    Sometimes when reading posts here I get the feeling I'm re-experiencing deja vu all over again.

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    Yes, Ross totally destroyed M25 for ALL of us Supremes fans. And she never apologized. Ross was completely out of touch and out of control.
    Last edited by Circa 1824; 12-28-2019 at 12:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Circa 1824 View Post
    Yes, Ross totally destroyed M25 for ALL of us Supremes fans. And she never apologized. Ross was completely out of touch and out of control.
    She def didn't want to be there or so they say. Reportedly was sick, no rehearsal, and the segment was reduced to one song. She may have only wanted to perform if it was a solo spot and no Sups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by detmotownguy View Post
    She def didn't want to be there or so they say. Reportedly was sick, no rehearsal, and the segment was reduced to one song. She may have only wanted to perform if it was a solo spot and no Sups.
    That was the point where I was through with Diana Ross forever! It showed the general public who she really was.

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    What's this thread about again? hmmmm

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    It is another failed attempt to rewrite history.

    We all get it...some of you hate Diana Ross, Berry Gordy and Suzanne DePasse. Yet you continue to talk about them ad nauseam.

    If not for Diana Ross this forum would be relegated to updates on Mary Wilson performing at the function room at the Olive Garden.

    Diana Ross is an international icon and there is nothing that 5 people with no life, will do to change that.

    In 20 years or less most of us will no longer be here, but please waste the time you have left wrapped in negativity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MotownGold View Post
    It is another failed attempt to rewrite history.

    We all get it...some of you hate Diana Ross, Berry Gordy and Suzanne DePasse. Yet you continue to talk about them ad nauseam.

    If not for Diana Ross this forum would be relegated to updates on Mary Wilson performing at the function room at the Olive Garden.

    Diana Ross is an international icon and there is nothing that 5 people with no life, will do to change that.

    In 20 years or less most of us will no longer be here, but please waste the time you have left wrapped in negativity.
    Harsh! Scandalous! And ... absolutely correct. If we had been lucky enough to have Florence still among us, only one thing is absolutely true: Mary Wilson would have had no market for her book and most likely no post-Supremes career whatsoever. A maybe? A Supremes reunion at some point in time.

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    I love all The Supremes, but being on this forum makes it difficult to care about Mary Wilson in any kind of way. Diana does not need now or then to reunite with any of the Supremes...she already has backup singers in her band!

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    OK...I'll go back on track with the topic.
    I think if Florence lived she would have [[provided she sobered up and had proper guidance and management) gradually etched out an entertainment career similar to Mary's..incorporating the Supremes legacy [[that she was also entitled to) into a livelihood that included acting, radio/ talk show hosting and writing. All things considered, I think TIME would have provided Florence with more insight than her contemporaries, struggling and being away from the business would have given her experiences that neither Mary or Diana had, since they remained in the business uninterrupted earning off performing....Cindy and Jean also have had that experience.

    It's also very likely that a surviving Florence may have Post Traumatic Embitterment Stress Syndrome...although some of us take responsibility for our decisions and actions, we have a frequent amount of distaste, distrust and dislike for the people, places and things that we believe were contributing factors.

    FYI..I admire DR very much, I am a fan of most of her post DRATS output..and I am a big MW /70's Supremes fan. Jean Terrell, Scherrie Payne....since Florence was already gone '68 when I became a fan, I am very partial and loving towards Cindy Birdsong. The group prior to her joining and during both her absences falls a bit out of favor for me.

  37. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post

    Also i don't know if Flo's professional career would have ever really been all that stupendous. Most accounts do have her starting to get her life together just prior to her death. So perhaps she would have made some headway with things. But she had a LOT of demons and i don't know that she had the resources or the perspective to deal with them properly. There might have been a little bit of resurgence but her timing was also poor, unfortunately. by 76 and 77, disco was the rage and Flo's voice really wouldn't have been a good fit for that IMO. It's quite possible that she would have remained in detroit, perhaps continuing on welfare or at the very least, living modestly.
    ^^ This.

    Like most members of this forum, I have read all the Motown books. My view of Flo is that she primarily saw the Supremes as a ticket out of poverty. I don’t think she ever harboured burning ambitions to be the next Judy Garland/Lena Horne/Dinah Washington etc - either artistically or professionally. Unlike Diana, who after the Supremes hit, realised hard work was the key to greater and sustained success, Flo never made this connection and was happy to rest on the laurels of the Supremes success. Flo sabotaged her career in 1967 by leaving Motown signing that ridiculous release contract. Berry never wanted her out of Motown - leaving was her choice, she did it because she was angry and bitter. Justifiably, maybe, but a golden rule is never let emotion get in the way of business, and she broke this rule. Worse, she signed that release without getting proper legal advice. Then she signed with ABC and had her husband manage her. If she’d been a more dedicated artist, with a clear vision of what she wanted to achieve artistically, that wouldn’t have happed. She was, in many ways, trapped by her upbringing, which had fewer advantages and less structure compared to Diana’s and Mary’s. When the Supremes started earning good money, she squandered hers on her large family, with no thought for the future, unlike Diana and Mary who did at least plan for the future.

    I sound like I am blaming her, and I suppose I am. She didn’t make the most of the opportunities Motown and the Supremes presented to her. She must have realised during 1966 that Diana had something she and Mary didn’t. She never stopped to think why, or what that might have been. Aside from their personal relationship, why was Berry singling Diana out? It was because Diana worked hard - very hard - to improve her craft and maintain success, and to take the Supremes to the next level. But Flo never saw this, she only saw Diana being pushed out in front and her own role being diminished, and instead just lashed out, getting depressed and starting to drink, and we all know where that ended. A smarter person would have asked why, and how do I get some of that, too.

    When I think about Flo, I think about squandered opportunities. But: in the end, Flo just didn’t have the ambition and dedication that Diana did. Note: ambition and dedication do not equate to talent. One can be talented but unambitious. Similarly, one can be ambitious, but lack talent.
    Last edited by grangertim; 12-29-2019 at 08:17 AM.

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    I will add my two cents trying to avoid rehashing things that will never change.

    I will say that they were all ambitious but Diana was willing to be reshaped into what ever she needed to be in order to achieve attention and fame and that's cool. That kind of thing works for some people but not most. Florence just wanted to sing [[like most of young adults at Motown).

    The business end of performing can be quite ugly and there are some willing to be reshaped where as many others are not.

    They all used this as a means of leaving the projects and helping their families but at that time none of them realized at what cost

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    Quote Originally Posted by gman View Post
    back to M25....in retrospect, it would have been smarter to have a Supremes reunion with Jean....Up The Ladder/ Stoned Love....Diana could have had her star entrance as she did with Ain't No Mountain and then reunited briefly with Mary and Cindy for Someday We'll Be Together...cant blame MW for being upset...it was supposed to be the grand highlight, and DR decided to minimalize it...it seemed to say "I'm here, that's all that matters"...Look carefully at the footage...DR got lost, Mary picked up the lead, and turned to Diana palm out to hand it back to her. Suzanne should have pulled Diana aside, and enlightened her about the situation, and the pending bad public and professional reputation the change she initiated would cause a bit
    In theory, it would've been a great idea to have Jean, Mary & Cindy perform as The Supremes [[with Diana making her "star turn" doing "ANMHE") on Motown 25. Unfortunately, Suzanne DePasse [[possibly coerced by NBC) wanted a Diana, Mary & Cindy "reunion" to climax the show.
    Last edited by Motown Eddie; 12-29-2019 at 11:40 AM.

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    I feel that if Florence Ballard was still alive, she'd be doing the same thing that Mary Wilson is doing [[some performing here & there and recognition as a founding member of The Supremes). I even see her performing "Silent Night" & "Oh Little Town Of Bethlehem" during the holidays.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motown Eddie View Post
    I feel that if Florence Ballard was still alive, she'd be doing the same thing that Mary Wilson is doing [[some performing here & there and recognition as a founding member of The Supremes). I even see her performing "Silent Night" & "Oh Little Town Of Bethlehem" during the holidays.
    Agreed. I would've loved to see her in concert if she was still alive

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    Diana is a rarity in that she is able to maintain superstar status for what seems like eternity....despite recording choice setbacks, spotty sales and some unappealing public moments....she's had the momentum and remained a household name. She's never been out of the public eye long enough to generate "Gee, whatever happened to..."

    The chances of lightning striking twice, and having a full fledged career blast following a dormant period that either rivals or surpasses the first wave of fame is indeed a rarity. Very few are that fortunate...among them Cher, Tina Turner, Heart, Patti Labelle....Seems most once big time, later labeled "historical" performers struggle to stay in the business and continue earning enough to maintain solely from performing.
    Royalty payments don't seem to be doing much to pay anybody's bills...the industry and the way people listen to and buy music has changed a lot

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    I think Florence would have returned to gospel music, her first love and greatest talent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gman View Post
    back to M25....in retrospect, it would have been smarter to have a Supremes reunion with Jean....Up The Ladder/ Stoned Love....Diana could have had her star entrance as she did with Ain't No Mountain and then reunited briefly with Mary and Cindy for Someday We'll Be Together...cant blame MW for being upset...it was supposed to be the grand highlight, and DR decided to minimalize it...it seemed to say "I'm here, that's all that matters"...Look carefully at the footage...DR got lost, Mary picked up the lead, and turned to Diana palm out to hand it back to her. Suzanne should have pulled Diana aside, and enlightened her about the situation, and the pending bad public and professional reputation the change she initiated would cause a bit
    I don't think Jean would've done it, honestly. But the optics would've been bad if Ross and Wilson [[and Birdsong for that matter) were all at a Motown tribute show and didn't sing together just the three of them. There should have been a medley, but even if they only sang just the one song together, I think the setup was perfect. Diana sing her solo mega Motown hit and then joined onstage with Mary and Cindy for "Someday". If Diana really pushed Mary, then the problem was all Diana and the push. Without it, the Supremes reunion could have been reasonably perfect.

    But lets be for real: outside of the most diehard of Supremes fans, no one there that night or tuning in during the broadcast would've been excited about Jean Terrell. To the general public the Supremes were Diana Ross, Mary Wilson, Flo Ballard and probably Cindy Birdsong. The reunion of Diana with the Supremes was one of the selling points for the show.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoolKatz View Post
    I will add my two cents trying to avoid rehashing things that will never change.

    I will say that they were all ambitious but Diana was willing to be reshaped into what ever she needed to be in order to achieve attention and fame and that's cool. That kind of thing works for some people but not most. Florence just wanted to sing [[like most of young adults at Motown).

    The business end of performing can be quite ugly and there are some willing to be reshaped where as many others are not.

    They all used this as a means of leaving the projects and helping their families but at that time none of them realized at what cost
    I agree 1000 percent!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gman View Post
    Diana is a rarity in that she is able to maintain superstar status for what seems like eternity....despite recording choice setbacks, spotty sales and some unappealing public moments....she's had the momentum and remained a household name. She's never been out of the public eye long enough to generate "Gee, whatever happened to..."

    The chances of lightning striking twice, and having a full fledged career blast following a dormant period that either rivals or surpasses the first wave of fame is indeed a rarity. Very few are that fortunate...among them Cher, Tina Turner, Heart, Patti Labelle....Seems most once big time, later labeled "historical" performers struggle to stay in the business and continue earning enough to maintain solely from performing.
    Royalty payments don't seem to be doing much to pay anybody's bills...the industry and the way people listen to and buy music has changed a lot
    Diana eased into her flat period. RCA was a transition from relevant to irrelevant because of music choice. Had someone other than Diana been in charge of her career while at RCA there's no doubt in my mind that Diana's success would've extended well into the 90s. Poor musical output cannot be underestimated as it relates to singers remaining at or near the top. It's hard to rebound from album after album and single after single that the public shuns because the music sucks.

    Also, both Tina and Patti had the opportunity to undergo a reinvention, probably due to the fact that their identities were tied to others for a very long time. Add to that both "lucked" up on hugely popular records that spiraled them back into success. I imagine the fact that Cher was also a successful movie actress allowed her a better chance at rebounding musically than most others. Another knock against Diana is that after The Wiz she wouldn't do another movie for 15 years and it was made for TV. I'm not even sure her Josephine Baker project would've done much more for her in the late 80s unless it was going to be on the big screen. She did a disservice to herself not continuing the movie career.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Diana eased into her flat period. RCA was a transition from relevant to irrelevant because of music choice. Had someone other than Diana been in charge of her career while at RCA there's no doubt in my mind that Diana's success would've extended well into the 90s. Poor musical output cannot be underestimated as it relates to singers remaining at or near the top. It's hard to rebound from album after album and single after single that the public shuns because the music sucks.

    Also, both Tina and Patti had the opportunity to undergo a reinvention, probably due to the fact that their identities were tied to others for a very long time. Add to that both "lucked" up on hugely popular records that spiraled them back into success. I imagine the fact that Cher was also a successful movie actress allowed her a better chance at rebounding musically than most others. Another knock against Diana is that after The Wiz she wouldn't do another movie for 15 years and it was made for TV. I'm not even sure her Josephine Baker project would've done much more for her in the late 80s unless it was going to be on the big screen. She did a disservice to herself not continuing the movie career.
    Diana should've picked a different company than RCA. She obviously couldn't go to Arista since it was packed with divas galore [[DIONNE, ARETHA, WHITNEY) but I think she could've had a better career at, say, Columbia but I guess because RCA offered the most money, she took it. Shows how much Motown artists were treated after they left Motown!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gman View Post
    Diana is a rarity in that she is able to maintain superstar status for what seems like eternity....despite recording choice setbacks, spotty sales and some unappealing public moments....she's had the momentum and remained a household name. She's never been out of the public eye long enough to generate "Gee, whatever happened to..."

    The chances of lightning striking twice, and having a full fledged career blast following a dormant period that either rivals or surpasses the first wave of fame is indeed a rarity. Very few are that fortunate...among them Cher, Tina Turner, Heart, Patti Labelle....Seems most once big time, later labeled "historical" performers struggle to stay in the business and continue earning enough to maintain solely from performing.
    Royalty payments don't seem to be doing much to pay anybody's bills...the industry and the way people listen to and buy music has changed a lot
    Cher benefited from having a successful movie career and not to mention she reinvented herself into a rock diva much like Tina Turner had done at the same time frame. Patti benefited from having a smart management company led by her husband at the time to get her bookings in film, Broadway and on TV specials and that led to her finally having a successful solo recording career from 1983 until around 1998.

    Diana definitely could've been there with them but what was different with her besides from RCA not knowing what to do with its artists, especially African American artists like Diana who didn't fit solely into a pop or R&B format [[which is why Tina Turner suffered for years until Private Dancer) was that she was a very attentive mother and that led to her cutting a lot of time so she could be a mother. She risked her career to be a mother rather than do the opposite in her early 20s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motown Eddie View Post
    I feel that if Florence Ballard was still alive, she'd be doing the same thing that Mary Wilson is doing [[some performing here & there and recognition as a founding member of The Supremes). I even see her performing "Silent Night" & "Oh Little Town Of Bethlehem" during the holidays.
    I see Florence having the same type of career Bettye LaVette has now. She can use her voice to sing the rock and blues classics and have a successful Grammy-nominated career. I mean her comeback performance in 75 had her fronting a rock group singing "I Am Woman". It could've easily happened!

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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Diana should've picked a different company than RCA. She obviously couldn't go to Arista since it was packed with divas galore [[DIONNE, ARETHA, WHITNEY) but I think she could've had a better career at, say, Columbia but I guess because RCA offered the most money, she took it. Shows how much Motown artists were treated after they left Motown!
    Arista probably would've been the best fit, but Dionne and Aretha were already there and that's probably half the company budget in just those two artists. [[Whitney was years away.) I'd be surprised if they could afford to pay Diana what she was worth at that point. Phyllis Hyman has complained about being lost in the shuffle when she got there. Diana Ross in 1981 wasn't going to be lost in anybody's shuffle at any record label in the country. She would've gotten a top priority spot, which may have ruffled the feathers of the other resident divas. But no doubt, Diana at Arista would've been quite different to Diana at RCA. I think Clive Davis might have had a way with singers at that time that would've allowed him to oversee a Diana Ross project, but allow Diana room so as not to feel stifled or bullied. She definitely wasn't going to go into another situation where some man was ruling over her with an iron fist. But she needed someone's guidance. Yes, that's the word I'm looking for: Clive would've been in a position to guide, rather than boss. After all, Aretha could be equally as difficult in maintaining control, and Arista gave her new life.

    But what's done is done. We'll always have "Pieces Of Ice".

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