[REMOVE ADS]




Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 101 to 150 of 166
  1. #101
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    8,635
    Rep Power
    516
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    I see Florence having the same type of career Bettye LaVette has now. She can use her voice to sing the rock and blues classics and have a successful Grammy-nominated career. I mean her comeback performance in 75 had her fronting a rock group singing "I Am Woman". It could've easily happened!
    And she received a standing ovation as a result. If we imagine Flo's career if it re-started in 1977, I think Flo would've probably tried her hand at disco first. Maybe she'd do some ballads a'la Angela Bofill. In the early 80s maybe she'd cut some stuff similar to Gladys and the Pips, like "Landlord" or Dee Dee Sharp's "Dee Dee" album. Whether or not she would've had any hits would've depended on song selection, as I figure it does with anyone else.

    My dream project would've been if Flo, Diana and Mary regrouped after Motown 25 and cut a Pointer Sisters "Breaking Out" type of album. That would've blown the public's mind.

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,754
    Rep Power
    391
    just to toy with some other ideas, what about Flo on the screen? since this is a fantasy post...

    perhaps Flo could have been the wise-cracking sister to Willona on Good Times. or a role on the Jeffersons.

    the rumors have always floated around that she could have done the black version of Hello Dolly.

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    8,635
    Rep Power
    516
    By all accounts Flo was a natural comedienne, so having her do television would've probably been a natural step for anyone guiding her career in the mid to late 70s. Movies also. Maybe even some commercial jingles or tv theme song. Florence would've needed someone knowledgeable about the industry and with tons of connections. One can have all the talent in the world, but without a good inter-industry support system, there's little chance for success, unfortunately.

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    132
    Rep Power
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Wasn't Florence planning to write her own bio at the time of her death?
    I thought her husband, Chapman, sold her memoirs to Gordy.

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Posts
    647
    Rep Power
    68
    Flo would have been great starring in The Fats Waller Musical: "Ain't Misbehavin": in the Broadway Production and/or The National Tour
    Production!

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    8,635
    Rep Power
    516
    Quote Originally Posted by NativeNuYorker View Post
    I thought her husband, Chapman, sold her memoirs to Gordy.
    That came from TallTales Turner's book. I think anything in his book can pretty much be chucked into the fiction column.

  7. #107
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,754
    Rep Power
    391
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    That came from TallTales Turner's book. I think anything in his book can pretty much be chucked into the fiction column.
    aside from the fictional comedy elements of Tony's books, there are some great, shade-y, catty comments and one liners

    Don't you walk out on me, i'll cut you too short to shit

    Tambourine thumping project whore

    if you reach that hand out to me, you'll pull back a bloody stump

    horse-throated tramp



    these are all phrases that are wonderful to drop into random conversations with people lolol.

  8. #108
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,279
    Rep Power
    519
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    aside from the fictional comedy elements of Tony's books, there are some great, shade-y, catty comments and one liners

    Don't you walk out on me, i'll cut you too short to shit

    Tambourine thumping project whore

    if you reach that hand out to me, you'll pull back a bloody stump

    horse-throated tramp



    these are all phrases that are wonderful to drop into random conversations with people lolol.
    Some of these one-liners are classic. I guess something good needed to come from his books. When I bought them, I was still young and green enough to think that everything I read was true. But some of it, whew!

  9. #109
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,754
    Rep Power
    391
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Some of these one-liners are classic. I guess something good needed to come from his books. When I bought them, I was still young and green enough to think that everything I read was true. But some of it, whew!
    yeah at the time, it was sort of "well if it's in a book there must be some level of truth." I happened to find and buy the Temps book he did relatively quickly. My understanding is that quite a few people brought lawsuits [[or threatened to) and so it went off market relatively quickly.

    then as the internet started up and fan chat rooms began, people started poking holes in it.

  10. #110
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,279
    Rep Power
    519
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    yeah at the time, it was sort of "well if it's in a book there must be some level of truth." I happened to find and buy the Temps book he did relatively quickly. My understanding is that quite a few people brought lawsuits [[or threatened to) and so it went off market relatively quickly.

    then as the internet started up and fan chat rooms began, people started poking holes in it.
    I remember Martha Reeves saying something like "He [[Tony Turner) had nightmares and woke up and wrote them down."

    His first book was sort of a more wicked, campy version of DREAMGIRL. His Tempts book was a tad darker. But when it came to some of the things he was proposing for his third book, I think people said enough is enough and it was never published.

    He seemed to keep a low profile until RTL, when he released another paperback version of his Supremes book, which was supposedly updated to include new info regarding the tour. The "update" amounted to basically a couple of pages.
    Last edited by reese; 01-07-2020 at 12:48 PM.

  11. #111
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,754
    Rep Power
    391
    oh i didn't know of a third book. maybe that was the one that was pulled, not the Temps one

    yeah the first one was just more of a tabloid version of Dreamgirl. but in Temps, he's digging much deeper into drugs, trash talking. alludes to some pretty wild sexual rumors about the people, hinting at this or that. and he didn't limit it to motown people - the chapter about Aretha was pretty entertaining. showing up naked under a glamorous fur coat to Dennis Edward's hotel room! ;o lolol

    and to cap it all off with, the best rumor is that Tony slithered off to Europe and is the gay lover of some spanish count lololol. I guess that makes her Countess Tonita Turner now

  12. #112
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,279
    Rep Power
    519
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    oh i didn't know of a third book. maybe that was the one that was pulled, not the Temps one

    yeah the first one was just more of a tabloid version of Dreamgirl. but in Temps, he's digging much deeper into drugs, trash talking. alludes to some pretty wild sexual rumors about the people, hinting at this or that. and he didn't limit it to motown people - the chapter about Aretha was pretty entertaining. showing up naked under a glamorous fur coat to Dennis Edward's hotel room! ;o lolol

    and to cap it all off with, the best rumor is that Tony slithered off to Europe and is the gay lover of some spanish count lololol. I guess that makes her Countess Tonita Turner now
    Yes, the proposed third book had some rather nasty allegations. I think Berry Gordy might have sued. But it was never published.

  13. #113
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    8,635
    Rep Power
    516
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    aside from the fictional comedy elements of Tony's books, there are some great, shade-y, catty comments and one liners

    Don't you walk out on me, i'll cut you too short to shit

    Tambourine thumping project whore

    if you reach that hand out to me, you'll pull back a bloody stump

    horse-throated tramp



    these are all phrases that are wonderful to drop into random conversations with people lolol.
    Can't argue with you there!

  14. #114
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    8,635
    Rep Power
    516
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Some of these one-liners are classic. I guess something good needed to come from his books. When I bought them, I was still young and green enough to think that everything I read was true. But some of it, whew!
    Same here. I think I first read it when I was 14 and I hadn't yet learned that fiction can be marketed as nonfiction in certain situations. The book did not endear Diana to me at all. So glad that didn't last long.

  15. #115
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    8,635
    Rep Power
    516
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    yeah at the time, it was sort of "well if it's in a book there must be some level of truth." I happened to find and buy the Temps book he did relatively quickly. My understanding is that quite a few people brought lawsuits [[or threatened to) and so it went off market relatively quickly.

    then as the internet started up and fan chat rooms began, people started poking holes in it.
    I read it. I can't recall if I have a copy or not. It's been eons since I read it. I don't remember much.

  16. #116
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    8,635
    Rep Power
    516
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    I remember Martha Reeves saying something like "He [[Tony Turner) had nightmares and woke up and wrote them down."

    His first book was sort of a more wicked, campy version of DREAMGIRL. His Tempts book was a tad darker. But when it came to some of the things he was proposing for his third book, I think people said enough is enough and it was never published.

    He seemed to keep a low profile until RTL, when he released another paperback version of his Supremes book, which was supposedly updated to include new info regarding the tour. The "update" amounted to basically a couple of pages.
    That's a great Martha quote!

    Glittered was basically regurgitated Dreamgirl stories that Tony was able to conjure up details for. Where Mary may have written something vague like "Flo, Diana and I were having lunch one afternoon when Flo farted and I fell out laughing. Diana ran off to tell Berry. It was as if Diana no longer had a sense of humor." Tall Tales would then write "Flo, Diana and Mary were having lunch one afternoon in Mary's suite. I came to the hotel as soon as school let out, and of course, even though I was just a kid, security let me go up to Mary's suite to hang out. When I got there Flo was glad to see me, as usual. Mary was polite, and Diana just gave me her bitchy look that said 'If I could put you in an oven and bake you, I would'. In return I gave her a look I'd seen Flo give and proceeded to ignore her. Flo, who was lactose intolerant and enjoying a dish smothered in cheese, suddenly broke wind. Mary and I fell out laughing, while Diana rolled her eyes and said 'Oh how common.' And when Flo joined in our laughter, Diana had enough. She left the suite and went into her own suite to call Berry. I followed behind her, but she didn't know it. She told Berry that Flo was cutting the cheese just to piss Diana off and she was tired of it. I ran back to Flo and told her what Diana said to Berry, and Flo told me 'That bitch is just mad that my farts sound better than she does.'

    I didn't know he did an update regarding RTL. What in the world could he possibly know about it that the rest of the world didn't? I can't imagine that any Supreme had anything to do with him at that point in time.

  17. #117
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    8,635
    Rep Power
    516
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    oh i didn't know of a third book. maybe that was the one that was pulled, not the Temps one

    yeah the first one was just more of a tabloid version of Dreamgirl. but in Temps, he's digging much deeper into drugs, trash talking. alludes to some pretty wild sexual rumors about the people, hinting at this or that. and he didn't limit it to motown people - the chapter about Aretha was pretty entertaining. showing up naked under a glamorous fur coat to Dennis Edward's hotel room! ;o lolol

    and to cap it all off with, the best rumor is that Tony slithered off to Europe and is the gay lover of some spanish count lololol. I guess that makes her Countess Tonita Turner now
    Oh please. The closest that queen has come to a count or countess is counting out change at his job and handing customers a receipt.

  18. #118
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    8,635
    Rep Power
    516
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Yes, the proposed third book had some rather nasty allegations. I think Berry Gordy might have sued. But it was never published.
    Yeah, he claimed Gordy was having sex with him as a teenager. Gordy threatened to sue and the book never came out. The dude is sick.

  19. #119
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,279
    Rep Power
    519
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post

    I didn't know he did an update regarding RTL. What in the world could he possibly know about it that the rest of the world didn't? I can't imagine that any Supreme had anything to do with him at that point in time.
    I think he may still have had some contact with Scherrie and maybe Cindy at that point. Scherrie did write an endorsement for the book when it was first published. But the info was rather skimpy along the lines of "Cindy was drinking Slim Fast by the gallon trying to get ready" and stuff like that.

  20. #120
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    44,434
    Rep Power
    897
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Yes, the proposed third book had some rather nasty allegations. I think Berry Gordy might have sued. But it was never published.
    IIRC, the working title was to be Supreme Temptation. Pretty clever, considering the source.

  21. #121
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    5,666
    Rep Power
    312
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    just to toy with some other ideas, what about Flo on the screen? since this is a fantasy post...

    perhaps Flo could have been the wise-cracking sister to Willona on Good Times. or a role on the Jeffersons.

    the rumors have always floated around that she could have done the black version of Hello Dolly.
    I have never once heard a peep about Florence in Hello, Dolly in either Broadway or Motown discussions going back lo these 50+ years. Florence had neither the acting, singing, or stamina conditioning [[not to mention audience-drawing potential) to have made her a remotely plausible follow up to Pearl Bailey. Most likely this is decades-afterwards specious gossip and as a tactic is quite similar to djt's '... I'm told many people are saying ...' gaslighting strategy.

  22. #122
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,279
    Rep Power
    519
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    I have never once heard a peep about Florence in Hello, Dolly in either Broadway or Motown discussions going back lo these 50+ years. Florence had neither the acting, singing, or stamina conditioning [[not to mention audience-drawing potential) to have made her a remotely plausible follow up to Pearl Bailey. Most likely this is decades-afterwards specious gossip and as a tactic is quite similar to djt's '... I'm told many people are saying ...' gaslighting strategy.
    The only place I heard it was [[again) in Tony Turner's book, and we know how reliable that is. He places the timeline around the time that she left the group.

    That said, I would think that if top Broadway producer like David Merrick really wanted Flo he could have made contact. It seems rather unlikely that Merrick would entrust one of his top properties to an ex-Supreme with no previous theater experience, and certainly not in the title role. Dolly Levi was supposed to be a widow and considerably older than Flo was at the time. This was one of the same criticisms aimed at Streisand when she did the film.

    If the story has any truth, perhaps Flo was thought of for one of the younger characters in the black Broadway revival. But again I have heard nothing at all of any of this except from Turner.

  23. #123
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    6,340
    Rep Power
    346
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Yeah, he claimed Gordy was having sex with him as a teenager. Gordy threatened to sue and the book never came out. The dude is sick.
    Missy Turner wrote real good fiction. I always found it real odd that he had all this daily close contact with Flo Ballard but didnt have one photo with her that he could include in his book. LOLOLOLOLOLOL

    Happy New Year dear RanRan79

  24. #124
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    5,666
    Rep Power
    312
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    The only place I heard it was [[again) in Tony Turner's book, and we know how reliable that is. He places the timeline around the time that she left the group.

    That said, I would think that if top Broadway producer like David Merrick really wanted Flo he could have made contact. It seems rather unlikely that Merrick would entrust one of his top properties to an ex-Supreme with no previous theater experience, and certainly not in the title role. Dolly Levi was supposed to be a widow and considerably older than Flo was at the time. This was one of the same criticisms aimed at Streisand when she did the film.

    If the story has any truth, perhaps Flo was thought of for one of the younger characters in the black Broadway revival. But again I have heard nothing at all of any of this except from Turner.
    Interesting, Reese! But, in the end, another Tony T nightmare and utterly illogical. Singing-dancing actresses were just shy of performing infanticide to be the next Dolly. The long-established, accepted lore was that post-Pearl B the 'all-Black Dolly' concept had run its course and it was on to Phyllis Diller, etc. If Merrick had wanted a Black follow-up to Bailey he had at his command the likes of established theater draws such as Diahann Carroll, Leslie Uggams, Josephine Premice, Barbara McNair ... the concept that a major Broadway show in the late 60's would entrust a huge hit, big-budget extravaganza to a cast-off girl group singer who was completely unproven as an actress and known in the industry [[if at all) to be unreliable and pretty much unknown to the Broadway ticket buying audience is just absurd. The Flo-natics will go through their monthly SNAP allowance of Depends reading this, but it's the way it is!
    Last edited by PeaceNHarmony; 01-08-2020 at 09:38 PM.

  25. #125
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,312
    Rep Power
    218
    I always thought Flo would have done well starring in a sitcom.

  26. #126
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    5,666
    Rep Power
    312
    Quote Originally Posted by floyjoy678 View Post
    I always thought Flo would have done well starring in a sitcom.
    Starring not so much but a cast member, def. She had the comic timing for sure.

  27. #127
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2,036
    Rep Power
    213
    Flo had a great comic personality but was far from a comedienne- her vocal lyric interp was pedestrian at best. I’m her biggest fan and still lament her loss from the group, but, there’s no way on earth David merrick would put her amateur butt in his record breaking career defining production. Pearl Bailey, starred the mega-successful black version calling on her 30 years of comic story and song expertise to redefine a Dolly Levi. ‘Wait a minute honey,” great as it was, would never have gotten her foot in the door. Bailey played Dolly longer than anyone - from November 67 - Dec 69 - including Carol Channing and was awarded a special Tony Award. Flo was available all that time and after for stock, but I never heard one whisper about Flo doing it. With training, who knows? I’d have gone. I just wish that Tony Turner and mary wilson would not have treated Florence as some sort of commodity to make money off them by inventing all kinds of stories - If they really and truly did love and care about her, they wouldn’t have used her in this manner after her passing.

  28. #128
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    8,635
    Rep Power
    516
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    The only place I heard it was [[again) in Tony Turner's book, and we know how reliable that is. He places the timeline around the time that she left the group.

    That said, I would think that if top Broadway producer like David Merrick really wanted Flo he could have made contact. It seems rather unlikely that Merrick would entrust one of his top properties to an ex-Supreme with no previous theater experience, and certainly not in the title role. Dolly Levi was supposed to be a widow and considerably older than Flo was at the time. This was one of the same criticisms aimed at Streisand when she did the film.

    If the story has any truth, perhaps Flo was thought of for one of the younger characters in the black Broadway revival. But again I have heard nothing at all of any of this except from Turner.
    Your mention of Hello Dolly and Tony Turner sounds familiar. And if that's where it came from, you can probably guess what I think of it. However, Mary makes mention in her first book that she heard some movie folks were interested in casting Flo in something but that Motown never followed up. She does not expand on this and we do know Mary was not above putting things into her book for dramatic purposes that may not have always had a basis in truth. With my limited knowledge and interest in Broadway, I suspect that Broadway producers looking to cast rock and roll singers in their productions would be an almost impossibility. The Supremes were the hottest American ticket in the world. What Broadway producer would be willing to shake up the stability of that world for someone who would, best case scenario, have to do double duty between Broadway and Supremes stuff, and worst case scenario, throw herself into the play only to jump right out when she discovers that what the Supremes do is where it's at for her, not Broadway.

    Besides this Hello Dolly talk coming from Tall Tales, I give more weight to Mary's statement. It wouldn't have surprised me at all for Hollywood reps to have taken notice of any of the Supremes. It's interesting to read articles about them during the Flo years. Of the ones I've seen, most of them really do treat the group as a group, as opposed to a writer who writes only about the greatness of Diana Ross and then, almost as an after thought, writes: "And oh yeah, Flo Ballard and Mary Wilson sing with her too. They are lovely girls also. But back to Diana..." And that the Hollywood crowd were staples at Supremes shows, I'm sure there were probably quite a few inquiries regarding all three Supremes, although most, if not all, may have been rejectable suggestions considering the time period and what may or may not have been racially sensitive.

    But of course, the bottom line is that limitedly talented drunk Florence, no one could've ever seen anything worth their time in her.*I say with such a severe eye roll, that it hurts*

  29. #129
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    8,635
    Rep Power
    516
    Quote Originally Posted by Roberta75 View Post
    Missy Turner wrote real good fiction. I always found it real odd that he had all this daily close contact with Flo Ballard but didnt have one photo with her that he could include in his book. LOLOLOLOLOLOL

    Happy New Year dear RanRan79
    That's what I say too. And once I grew up and my common sense started kicking in, I'm thinking what kind of weirdo would Flo have had to be for this grown woman to take this little boy into her confidences. This dude was writing about how Flo was calling him from around the world to complain about Supremes stuff, and how she would call him when she got to New York so they could hang. Really? Like this woman didn't have grown friends she could complain to or call and say she's in town, let's hang out? But folks lapped it up.

    Happy New Year to you too Roberta!!

  30. #130
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,312
    Rep Power
    218
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Your mention of Hello Dolly and Tony Turner sounds familiar. And if that's where it came from, you can probably guess what I think of it. However, Mary makes mention in her first book that she heard some movie folks were interested in casting Flo in something but that Motown never followed up. She does not expand on this and we do know Mary was not above putting things into her book for dramatic purposes that may not have always had a basis in truth. With my limited knowledge and interest in Broadway, I suspect that Broadway producers looking to cast rock and roll singers in their productions would be an almost impossibility. The Supremes were the hottest American ticket in the world. What Broadway producer would be willing to shake up the stability of that world for someone who would, best case scenario, have to do double duty between Broadway and Supremes stuff, and worst case scenario, throw herself into the play only to jump right out when she discovers that what the Supremes do is where it's at for her, not Broadway.

    Besides this Hello Dolly talk coming from Tall Tales, I give more weight to Mary's statement. It wouldn't have surprised me at all for Hollywood reps to have taken notice of any of the Supremes. It's interesting to read articles about them during the Flo years. Of the ones I've seen, most of them really do treat the group as a group, as opposed to a writer who writes only about the greatness of Diana Ross and then, almost as an after thought, writes: "And oh yeah, Flo Ballard and Mary Wilson sing with her too. They are lovely girls also. But back to Diana..." And that the Hollywood crowd were staples at Supremes shows, I'm sure there were probably quite a few inquiries regarding all three Supremes, although most, if not all, may have been rejectable suggestions considering the time period and what may or may not have been racially sensitive.

    But of course, the bottom line is that limitedly talented drunk Florence, no one could've ever seen anything worth their time in her.*I say with such a severe eye roll, that it hurts*
    Yeah I feel some people are trying to downplay Flo just a little bit too much. Berry makes it a point in his book that he saw something special in each of the Supremes.

  31. #131
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    5,666
    Rep Power
    312
    Quote Originally Posted by floyjoy678 View Post
    Yeah I feel some people are trying to downplay Flo just a little bit too much. Berry makes it a point in his book that he saw something special in each of the Supremes.
    I don't think anyone here tries to downplay Florence and her accomplishments during her years with the Supremes, nor her inarguable contributions to American popular music and culture and the civil rights movement. But it's way more than 20 feet to jump from background singing to a lead role in an exhausting 8-show-a-week Broadway extravaganza with its attendant publicity demands and required acting skills. Got to be real! Cheers to you.

  32. #132
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,279
    Rep Power
    519
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Your mention of Hello Dolly and Tony Turner sounds familiar. And if that's where it came from, you can probably guess what I think of it. However, Mary makes mention in her first book that she heard some movie folks were interested in casting Flo in something but that Motown never followed up...
    I remember reading that in Mary's book and it doesn't sound unbelievable. I think Peter Benjamin's book on Flo mentions a similar thing, but I believe he wrote that Berry told the interested producers to look at Diana instead.

  33. #133
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,754
    Rep Power
    391
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    I don't think anyone here tries to downplay Florence and her accomplishments during her years with the Supremes, nor her inarguable contributions to American popular music and culture and the civil rights movement. But it's way more than 20 feet to jump from background singing to a lead role in an exhausting 8-show-a-week Broadway extravaganza with its attendant publicity demands and required acting skills. Got to be real! Cheers to you.
    oh completely agree with you. broadway is most definitely NOT for the weak or faint hearted. in reality, Flo probably would never have made it and probably would never have tried. My post was more about fantasy - assuming she DID have the training or work ethic.

    the Good Times idea sort of popped into my head. kind of like a guest star spot or something like that. even that wasn't being done all that much until you got the likes of Love Boat and all. I do think had MSS been around they could have gotten booked onto that boat! hehehe that would have been fun!

  34. #134
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,279
    Rep Power
    519
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    oh completely agree with you. broadway is most definitely NOT for the weak or faint hearted. in reality, Flo probably would never have made it and probably would never have tried. My post was more about fantasy - assuming she DID have the training or work ethic.

    the Good Times idea sort of popped into my head. kind of like a guest star spot or something like that. even that wasn't being done all that much until you got the likes of Love Boat and all. I do think had MSS been around they could have gotten booked onto that boat! hehehe that would have been fun!
    If they had been popular at the time, I could see MSS doing the episode that the Pointer Sisters did. They played ship maids who Isaac asked to sing backup for a big show. Only problem was when the show occured, Isaac got stage fright, couldn't sing, and June and the girls had to take over.

  35. #135
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,754
    Rep Power
    391
    hehehe - i could envision the Supremes being booked as a headline act on the main stage on the Lido deck lolol

    and then mayhem ensues hehehe

    Scherrie gets lost while sightseeing in Acapulco and has locals helping her in a motor boat to get out to the ship.

    mary would be a love interest for some guest star on board. perhaps Sidney Poitier lol

    Susaye would be wrapped up in some wild antics with Isaac

  36. #136
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    10,007
    Rep Power
    305
    Tony Turner, the same dude who said Marvin Gaye was gay, that Eddie Kendricks and David Ruffin had a relationship, who said Flo hired him at age 12 [[I forget the job)...

    He really expected us to believe the ish he was selling lol

  37. #137
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    335
    Rep Power
    0
    The “legend” of Florence Ballard has completely overtaken the reality. Decent singer? Yes. Would have charted as a lead? Unlikely. By all realistic accounts, Saint Flo didn’t have the looks, voice, or work ethic to make a dent in a relatively new Civil Rights era world of popular music.

  38. #138
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    8,635
    Rep Power
    516
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    I remember reading that in Mary's book and it doesn't sound unbelievable. I think Peter Benjamin's book on Flo mentions a similar thing, but I believe he wrote that Berry told the interested producers to look at Diana instead.
    I don't place a lot of faith in any of Peter's anecdotes either, unless he directly quotes Florence. He, unfortunately, decided to approach the Florence Ballard story without the objectivity that a really good biography of someone deserves.

  39. #139
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    8,635
    Rep Power
    516
    Quote Originally Posted by floyjoy678 View Post
    Yeah I feel some people are trying to downplay Flo just a little bit too much. Berry makes it a point in his book that he saw something special in each of the Supremes.
    It's unfortunate, but it's the way things are among fans of the Supremes, either as a group or it's individual members. There are obvious ones among us who attempt to downplay Diana's achievements- factual achievements- and her talent and, to some degree or another, her legendary status. And then to others, it's almost a slap in the face when they find that Diana is not the only Supreme some people care about. God forbid that someone has a favorite Supreme who isn't Diana. It sucks, but what can one do? I just continue to state my opinion about Florence, Diana or any other Supreme and let the folks who don't like it get annoyed that they can't stop me. Besides, it has to really suck to be a person who wants everyone's opinions to align with their own.

  40. #140
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    8,635
    Rep Power
    516
    Quote Originally Posted by monicarivers View Post
    The “legend” of Florence Ballard has completely overtaken the reality. Decent singer? Yes. Would have charted as a lead? Unlikely. By all realistic accounts, Saint Flo didn’t have the looks, voice, or work ethic to make a dent in a relatively new Civil Rights era world of popular music.
    Those are all opinions, boo. That is not reality. There's a difference. I have an opposite opinion from yours. Of course none of it makes any difference now, but it's interesting to ponder conjecture, isn't it?

  41. #141
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,754
    Rep Power
    391
    my view on Flo is that she definitely had talent. definitely had charisma. however she was 1) a young adult when this whole adventure started and 2) had some significant personal/mental problems that were never really addressed

    Both M and F were young girls when they started singing and teens when they started at motown. there's much discussion about Diana's ambition, drive, steely determination, etc. But we need to remember that she's the anomaly. most teens are not like that. so when you compare her performance, growth, etc to what M and F were doing, well of course there's going to be a significant difference.

    So could Flo have been a lead singer with success? sure. i think she could have probably done fine enough. the group could have had a hit or two. Could she have gone into acting and comedy? maybe. if she worked at it and train, who's to say. Could the flo circa early 67 that we all think we know have done these things? hard to say since by that time she was crumbling.

  42. #142
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,279
    Rep Power
    519
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I don't place a lot of faith in any of Peter's anecdotes either, unless he directly quotes Florence. He, unfortunately, decided to approach the Florence Ballard story without the objectivity that a really good biography of someone deserves.
    I have to look at the book again. But I believe it was a quote from Flo. She mentioned that two film producers caught the Supremes act in San Francisco and were interested in her. But Berry told them to look at Diana instead as she worked harder. She went on to say how mean she thought Berry was to even share the exchange with her as she wasn't even thinking about movies.
    Last edited by reese; 01-10-2020 at 12:20 PM.

  43. #143
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,754
    Rep Power
    391
    ^ yeah there have been stories of how berry would drop lines like this to the girls.

    my guess is it wasn't necessarily meant to simply be cruel. I think it was his [[odd) way of trying to motivate someone. sort of a "look at the opportunity that passed you by, so get off ur duff and get going so you can get the next one"

    not necessarily the most effective method

  44. #144
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,279
    Rep Power
    519
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    ^ yeah there have been stories of how berry would drop lines like this to the girls.

    my guess is it wasn't necessarily meant to simply be cruel. I think it was his [[odd) way of trying to motivate someone. sort of a "look at the opportunity that passed you by, so get off ur duff and get going so you can get the next one"

    not necessarily the most effective method
    In her book, Diana wrote that Berry compared others to her often. Not just within the group but amongst the other Motown acts as well. As a result,she felt many of them turned against her. Berry might very well have been trying to make some of the others work harder to realize their own potential but to those involved, more than likely it came off as him playing favorites.

  45. #145
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,754
    Rep Power
    391
    exactly. and we've all heard of how harsh Berry was with the Supremes, in particular Diana, about mistakes and changes. he seems as if he's a very direct, blunt person. one that lives by the "it's not mean if it's true" mantra.

    in a sort of defense, one could argue that they were 1) in totally uncharted territory and 2) moving at a relentless speed in order to make as much money as quickly as possible. they didn't really have any examples to go by and were just plowing ahead blindly. and clearly motown wasn't working under the idea of we're here to create art for the ages. they wanted to make money today. taking time to sooth feelings and hold everyone's hand could have potentially limited the money they could earn or if they'd be there tomorrow. biographers and authors have pointed out that in several instances motown was barely hanging on. i think one story goes that Louyce saved the company at one particularly vulnerable time but collecting from distributors or something like that. so the threat of collapse was always present

    and Berry certainly didn't limit his barbs for Florence. writers and producers often talk about how berry would rip apart their songs and productions.

  46. #146
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,279
    Rep Power
    519
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    exactly. and we've all heard of how harsh Berry was with the Supremes, in particular Diana, about mistakes and changes. he seems as if he's a very direct, blunt person. one that lives by the "it's not mean if it's true" mantra.

    in a sort of defense, one could argue that they were 1) in totally uncharted territory and 2) moving at a relentless speed in order to make as much money as quickly as possible. they didn't really have any examples to go by and were just plowing ahead blindly. and clearly motown wasn't working under the idea of we're here to create art for the ages. they wanted to make money today. taking time to sooth feelings and hold everyone's hand could have potentially limited the money they could earn or if they'd be there tomorrow. biographers and authors have pointed out that in several instances motown was barely hanging on. i think one story goes that Louyce saved the company at one particularly vulnerable time but collecting from distributors or something like that. so the threat of collapse was always present

    and Berry certainly didn't limit his barbs for Florence. writers and producers often talk about how berry would rip apart their songs and productions.
    I agree with a lot of what you wrote here. That's why I don't think of any of us can compare what Flo, Diana, Mary, and Berry might have done back then to what we might have done in a normal situation.

    Now some things were probably downright dirty and mean. But it seems like the attitude was "get it while we're hot" because who knows how long this will last. To that end, some problems probably weren't discussed thoroughly until they came to a head because they were traveling to the next concert, rehearsing for the next tv show, recording hundreds of unreleased songs, etc. It doesn't mean things shouldn't have been discussed but context is everything. And of course, hindsight is 20/20.
    Last edited by reese; 01-10-2020 at 12:49 PM.

  47. #147
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    5,666
    Rep Power
    312
    Quote Originally Posted by monicarivers View Post
    The “legend” of Florence Ballard has completely overtaken the reality. Decent singer? Yes. Would have charted as a lead? Unlikely. By all realistic accounts, Saint Flo didn’t have the looks, voice, or work ethic to make a dent in a relatively new Civil Rights era world of popular music.
    I agree all around. If we were lucky enough to have had Florence survive the discussions today would be very, very different.

  48. #148
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    4,675
    Rep Power
    308
    Quote Originally Posted by monicarivers View Post
    The “legend” of Florence Ballard has completely overtaken the reality. Decent singer? Yes. Would have charted as a lead? Unlikely. By all realistic accounts, Saint Flo didn’t have the looks, voice, or work ethic to make a dent in a relatively new Civil Rights era world of popular music.
    I don't know what the "new civil rights era world of popular music" was ??

    or why it would've excluded Florence Ballard.....

  49. #149
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    335
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    I don't know what the "new civil rights era world of popular music" was ??

    or why it would've excluded Florence Ballard.....
    I simply meant that Florence didn’t have the chops to bridge the racial gap in popular music of the 1960’s. We all know this and it’s been discussed ad nauseum. It’s a shame though - she’s got a great set of pipes upon revisit!

  50. #150
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    4,675
    Rep Power
    308
    Quote Originally Posted by monicarivers View Post
    I simply meant that Florence didn’t have the chops to bridge the racial gap in popular music of the 1960’s. We all know this and it’s been discussed ad nauseum. It’s a shame though - she’s got a great set of pipes upon revisit!
    Sorry , I still don't follow. Florence was on eight [[ give or take a few, depending on who you ask ) #1 POP songs , appeared repeatedly on several premiere variety shows , and marqued in Vegas at The Flamingo... all in the sixties.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

[REMOVE ADS]

Ralph Terrana
MODERATOR

Welcome to Soulful Detroit! Kindly Consider Turning Off Your Ad BlockingX
Soulful Detroit is a free service that relies on revenue from ad display [regrettably] and donations. We notice that you are using an ad-blocking program that prevents us from earning revenue during your visit.
Ads are REMOVED for Members who donate to Soulful Detroit. [You must be logged in for ads to disappear]
DONATE HERE »
And have Ads removed.