wow! how could these NOT have gone #1??

[sup_fan]

Reflections

I'm Gonna Make You Love Me

Stoned Love

while the girls had lots of amazing songs, these three really surprised me that they didn't make it to the pop #1 spot. Was wondering if they had slightly less tv exposure which might have contributed

Reflections - first performed on TV over 2 months after it's release. And that aired as the song was starting to slide down from it's top spot. Had they performed on Ed Sullivan or a big show in the summer, might it have gone #1? Did the Flo exit and/or name change play a role? Other songs in the top were Ode To Billie, The Letter, Come back when you grow up, Never my love

IGMYLM - Grapevine seems to have been the blocking force here. and that's a massive song. But had the Sups and Tempts maybe done a Sullivan or big network performance of the song, would it have helped? Maybe something in the weeks after TCB? the single was released late Nov and the special was early Dec.

Stoned Love - was released mid October when I'll Be There was #1. SL peaked at #7 the week of 12/19. Other big songs were Tears of a Clown, I think i love you, gypsy woman, My sweet lord, One less bell to answer, knock three times. The girls were on the Merv Griffin show in early nov [[i think this is the episode where the song was edited out). And Tom Jones in Nov too. Also in nov was the Ford Theater special - anyone know what they performed on that? Flip Wilson aired first week of Jan.

[jobeterob]

Simply Ode to Billie Joe was the #1 record of the year and Grapevine would have been very close if it had not been released so close to the end of the year

So Reflections ad Make You Love Me were blocked - although I think Love Me made it in cashbox; maybe Reflections did too

Stoned Love was a ways off from #1 but definitely the peak for the 70s Supremes; I’m not sure the 70s group was ever new enough and hot enough to get to #1; Mary said the albums just didn’t sell that well and Stoned came after the kid of weak Right to Love

[TheMotownManiac]

My Two Cents:

REFLECTIONS

i never thought it to be a number one when it came out - I was thinking Top 5/Top 10. The lyric is sublime; melodically both the verse and chorus are just ok; it’s well enough produced, but not groundbreaking even with the noises. BG vocals are indistinguishable at times and her vocal ranges from great to serviceable throughout the record. I think it’s lucky to ave hit #2.
i admit to being one of the few who misses the supreme greatness of Ode To Billie Joe, it was fine in its day, but did folks actually take it home and put it on repeat like I did Love Child or so many others? Whatever I think, it struck a major chord and Blocked reflections from hitting number one in record world cashbox and billboard…… Which tells me that the amount of airplay it was getting supported exactly it’s sales…… It was clearly a number 2 record.
I don’t think Cindy heard the single at all because most people didn’t even know that Cindy was in the group at that point until they appeared on TV without saying anything, you still had to wonder where was Flo? Maybe she was sick. And I don’t think personnel matters a damn bit at all when it comes to a 45 people buy what they wanna hear and I don’t think they care at all whose voice they’re listening

I’M GONNA MAKE YOU LOVE ME

This is interesting because the song made it to number one on the sales charts and both cashbox and record world one of them for three weeks! I think grapevine stayed at number one on billboard because it was such a great radio record and got a ton of airplay - no matter when you turn on the radio it was on all the time and those spins outspun the platinum selling Diana/Eddie duet keeping it in the penultimate spot on Billboard only. For that reason, I don’t think going on TV with it would’ve helped that much…… However maybe it would’ve spurred enough extra sales that those sales could’ve overcome the airplane points grapevine was getting. Grapevine was hypnotic and of course Marvin’s vocal is one of the great vocals ever and I can see program directors feeling that every time someone heard that on the radio they were not going to switch the station so I understand why they played it so damn much…… But I got tired of it. I’m going to make you love me is the perfect pop record and when you look at the album sales supreme‘s join the Temptations sold many times more than Marvin‘s album with grapevine on it…… And those album numbers are even more impressive considering TCB was right there with it at the top of the chart… That is a tremendous Testimony to the popularity of for that 45.
Because it is certified platinum, was number one for three weeks in cashbox, I consider this just as good as number one.

STONED LOVE

I know this record Is considered sacred to some, and it is a very good record, but it’s not number 1ish to me. I bought it instantly and really liked it, but it didn’t kill me like Remember me, up the ladder or aint no mountain - those were killers whereas this just wounded me severely… It was good enough to get to number one on the saw chart for a week and I believe ain’t no mountain was only one week at number one on the soul chart - so they were equal in that territory.
I don’t know how much I believe that the song Suffered because of the word stoned it didn’t stop the fifth dimension from getting airplay for stoned soul picnic three years before or cloud nine a year before Which everyone knew it was drug-related despite the nails by Motown… LOL… I think Stone Love could’ve been better with a little more bass, Jean enounciating better, brighter background vocals, I would have left in the sax solo with the ooooooh’s, and finally, the tempo picked up just a bit. If you play it on your turntable and you can adjust the speed if you crank it up just a hint it makes all the difference in the world. I do think it’s a very very good record but I just don’t see it being that strong to be a number one…… Motown certainly pushed the hell out of it they put out the single to radio stations, then they put out the album version on a single promo to radio stations, then they put a mid-length edit to radio stations - I heard all three I cannot recall if I ever heard them play together we should make such sweet music first…… I don’t think I did….it made it to number three in the UK which is very impressive, but I was surprised it stalled at number seven here - I was certain it will go top five at least and possibly number one. I don’t believe the album hurt single sales all that much because the album didn’t do very well. Ain’t no mountain high enough was number one when the album was number one on the R&B chart at the same time, and I’m sure an impact sales some, but New Ways wasn’t a big hit album so I don’t think it hurt sales too much.

[thanxal]

Two that have always stunned me:

Nothing but Heartaches.
We’ve had this discussion before and I know why it didn’t hit #1 [[a super crowded field the week of release), but it’s s a quintessential Motown-sound song at just the right time in the Supremes run.

Love is Like an Itching in My Heart.
I know this won’t get much purchase here, but it is a phenomenal track. I think had it been a bit beefier [[MOAR PERCUSSION) maybe it would have hit a nerve.

[RanRan79]

Reflections

I'm Gonna Make You Love Me

Stoned Love

"Reflections" is a damn good song. I'm wondering if maybe debuting the record on TV before/on/or directly after it's release date would've really pushed it. But it's possible Gordy and co may not have felt Cindy was ready for primetime just yet. I don't know how long the song took to peak, but I think it's different enough from their output up until this point that it might have taken a bit of time to catch on, so by the time it hit #2, that might have been the point where the public was just about tired of it. Just a theory since I don't know it's weekly chart history.

"I'm Gonna Make You Love Me" is definitely a major stumper as to why it stalled. I get "Grapevine" was holding it off, but this is the freakin Supremes and Temptations. I'm willing to bet had Gordy gotten the two groups on Sullivan to debut the song or perform the song as it was nearing the top, it would've gone number one for at least a week. Sometimes I want to retroactively go back in time and knock the hell out of Gordy. The group gets booked to sing Fats Waller and Irving Berlin [[as great as those numbers were) but not book them to do such an important single in both group's history? He was as dumb as he was smart.

"Stoned Love"...I'm going to be honest, I'm surprised the song went number one R&B, so it doesn't shock me that it didn't do that pop. I think "Ladder" sounded more like a number one record than "Stoned" did.

[RanRan79]

Two that have always stunned me:

Nothing but Heartaches.
We’ve had this discussion before and I know why it didn’t hit #1 [[a super crowded field the week of release), but it’s s a quintessential Motown-sound song at just the right time in the Supremes run.

Love is Like an Itching in My Heart.
I know this won’t get much purchase here, but it is a phenomenal track. I think had it been a bit beefier [[MOAR PERCUSSION) maybe it would have hit a nerve.

"Heartaches" used to be on my list but not anymore. I actually think had the first version of "Itchin" been mixed and released that summer of 65, it may have had a chance to go all the way. There's something missing from the single version that I can't quite put my finger on. It's a great record as is, but it lacks something.

I used to be surprised that "My World" didn't go the distance but I'm not surprised anymore. It's so dark and such a departure from the upbeat tone of most of the previous singles that I think it may have been hard for some of the record buying public to warm to, despite it being one of Diana and the Funks best vocal/backing performances.

[RanRan79]

"Heartaches" used to be on my list but not anymore. I actually think had the first version of "Itchin" been mixed and released that summer of 65, it may have had a chance to go all the way. There's something missing from the single version that I can't quite put my finger on. It's a great record as is, but it lacks something.

Just listened to "Itching" to see if I could figure out what might be missing for me. It was hard to determine because I really do love that track. It kicks butt. But listening to it I think maybe if some more elements from the "scratch" version were present in the single, like Flo and Mary being a bit more prominent, maybe add some horns to beef up the sound, it would have done better.

[sup_fan]

I forgot that the single edit of SL was out there and frankly it was a rather inferior version. not as hideous as the edit for Touch [[plus that song was much weaker than SL anyway) but the single of SL really misses some of the magic of the lp version.

I do think Reflections is one of the top releases by the group - the performance by Diana is stunning. her restrained vocals are just haunting. the track is so interesting and different and the chorus just hits you. I do agree that the BG are a bit too whispery and faint. I'm pretty sure Flo isn't on the record and it shows.

There had been many times that a Motown song unseated a mega hot record. Look at what Come See About Me did - it went to #1 for 1 week. then dropped. then the Sups appeared on Sullivan and it shot BACK to 1. I think it was I Feel Fine that was swapping places with it

[johnjeb]

Two that have always stunned me:

Nothing but Heartaches.
We’ve had this discussion before and I know why it didn’t hit #1 [[a super crowded field the week of release), but it’s s a quintessential Motown-sound song at just the right time in the Supremes run.

Love is Like an Itching in My Heart.
I know this won’t get much purchase here, but it is a phenomenal track. I think had it been a bit beefier [[MOAR PERCUSSION) maybe it would have hit a nerve.

NBH may have been released in a crowded field but it was also released at about the same time as the MH album which may have sabotaged the single's success. It also was too similar to Back In My Arms Again - my reason for not "loving" NBH when it was released. I bought the MH album and only purchased the NBH single for the pic sleeve not because I liked NBH.

I also think Itching would have done better if released in 1965 instead on NBH. It's in my Top 10 but sometimes I find Diana's vocal on this song a bit shrill - a possibility why this song didn't climb higher.

[johnjeb]

"Reflections" is a damn good song. I'm wondering if maybe debuting the record on TV before/on/or directly after it's release date would've really pushed it. But it's possible Gordy and co may not have felt Cindy was ready for primetime just yet. I don't know how long the song took to peak, but I think it's different enough from their output up until this point that it might have taken a bit of time to catch on, so by the time it hit #2, that might have been the point where the public was just about tired of it. Just a theory since I don't know it's weekly chart history.

"I'm Gonna Make You Love Me" is definitely a major stumper as to why it stalled. I get "Grapevine" was holding it off, but this is the freakin Supremes and Temptations. I'm willing to bet had Gordy gotten the two groups on Sullivan to debut the song or perform the song as it was nearing the top, it would've gone number one for at least a week. Sometimes I want to retroactively go back in time and knock the hell out of Gordy. The group gets booked to sing Fats Waller and Irving Berlin [[as great as those numbers were) but not book them to do such an important single in both group's history? He was as dumb as he was smart.

"Stoned Love"...I'm going to be honest, I'm surprised the song went number one R&B, so it doesn't shock me that it didn't do that pop. I think "Ladder" sounded more like a number one record than "Stoned" did.

I absolutely love "Reflections". I was amazed it didn't get to #1 for at least one week. "Ode To Billie Joe" was a hot record. It knocked The Beatles "All You Need Is Love" out of #1 after only 1 week - that was rare. "Billie Joe" stayed at #1 for four weeks to be replaced by another strong record "The Letter" by the Box Tops. "Reflections" didn't have a chance at that point. "Reflections" charted for 11 weeks August 12, 1967 - October 21, 1967; 61, 20, 8, 3, 2, 2, 4, 5, 7, 22, 39.

I imagine it was difficult to coordinate television appearances with record releases. Add to that a hectic schedule of personal appearances throughout the USA and around the world.

Prime-time TV shows, regular Series as well as Specials, most likely required contracts which had restrictions about appearances on competitive programs - or so I have heard. [[Remember we only had 3 networks!) I don't think stars like Bing Crosby or Bob Hope would appreciate hearing that their Special Guest Stars were also appearing for another program within days or a couple of weeks.

The Supremes were in such high demand I can imagine their TV appearances, like their supper-club bookings, were scheduled months in advance, in most cases. The Supremes were basically on TV once a month. [[It seemed like once a week when you add in syndicated daytime shows and summer reruns of Prime-time shows.)

Back in mid-November 1966 when The Supremes were appearing here in Boston at Blinstrub's I heard a radio interview in which Diana mentioned they were rehearsing for their upcoming appearance on Ed Sullivan in December. I was surprised that they were rehearsing something 3-4 weeks in advance.

Love Child was the first Supremes record to debut on TV rather than on the radio. Generally The Supremes performed their latest release but that didn't mean it was brand-spanking-new. Maybe someone has documented a record's release date and the date that song was first performed on television.

[BayouMotownMan]

On Festival at Fords, as I recall they did the medley of hits that included Stop, Baby Love, Come See, Ladder and Right To Love wearing the butterfly gowns. They did a duet with Andy Williams on Games People Play wearing the chandelier gowns. I think they traded off a line or two in other group medleys.

[gman]

all 3 are #1 worthy...Reflections, like I Hear A Symphony was a bit of a change and a more mature sounding production. The duet single no doubt could have easily topped the charts for a few weeks [[even perhaps interrupting Grapevine's run) on the strength of both groups audiences...we have to remember Grapevine was a killer seller and the 2 duet LPS were already available, simultaneously, and selling like hotcakes.

Stoned Love is one of the non fanatic fan/ not even a fan Supremes favorites. It peaked during the industries strongest yearly selling period...the holidays. 45's were still a major make or break success vehicle. There were a lot of good records out and many labels concentrated on getting big name acts major summer / major holiday hits, and introduced new artists during the peak sales periods. In addition, Stoned Love was up against major teen act chart action...the Partridge Family, The Jackson 5 and the Osmonds…..Remember Me and River Deep Mountain High also came home with me that wonderful holiday splurge record buying trip....and I think I may have "Bang A Gonged" myself into the start of adolescence.

[daviddh]

I think all the songs had the chance but Reflections was blocked as already stated.Ode to Billie was huge and #1 for 6 weeks , I think. had Reflections been released 2 weeks earlier perhaps.always been a favorite. same goes for Make You Love Me. Grapevine was huge but yes but both made #1 cashbox.
Heataches could have went higher but on two appearances the Supremes performed standards and did not perform their current single. a lost opportunity, I think BG wanted them to sing Your Nobody Till ...dumb idea not to promote any single.
Stoned Love was blocked by some negative nonsense. wasn't it cut from Merv Griffin because of the lyrics. and the Ed Sullivan appearance was cancelled.
overall the songs did well and all remain among my favorites
after thought ,Itching in My Heart,.LOVE IT, probably my favorite. cant get enough of it but not a #1. but some of these songs mentioned were only performed once while others got several appearances. I think had Itching got my performances it may have gone higher. I think it was ahead of its time, this song became a huge dance hit in UK in the mid 70s

[sup_fan]

^interesting - i hadn't heard that they were cut from a 2nd JMC appearance on Sullivan. They did a lot of tv appearances at this time. and as has been discussed on here, released the Four Tops duets on top of New Ways and Stoned certainly didn't help.

I'm guessing here but i'd assume Motown would try and push singles higher. Perhaps like a Love Is Here or a My World. both are getting high on the charts, maybe 1 more PR blast will push it over the top. maybe promotional activities w DJs and things

[sup_fan]

Heataches could have went higher but on two appearances the Supremes performed standards and did not perform their current single. a lost opportunity, I think BG wanted them to sing Your Nobody Till ...dumb idea not to promote any single.

The girls were supposed to sing Heartaches and You're nobody on their 2nd Sullivan appearance. But then the show was running long and the Sups weren't yet at a premiere status. So the sullivan production folk said "sorry - but the girls now can only do 1 song" This was right around Oct 65 when they were doing Lincoln Center i believe. and Berry was still working to cement them in people's minds as Entertainers. not just Pop Singers. so he sacrificed Heartaches and the potential short term sales it would deliver and reinforce that the girls were superstar entertainers worthy of the top clubs globally. And this would deliver longer term sales

[144man]

I wonder if IGMYLM didn't get to Number 1 because it wasn't an original Motown song and people were already familiar with other versions.

[daviddh]

^interesting - i hadn't heard that they were cut from a 2nd JMC appearance on Sullivan. They did a lot of tv appearances at this time. and as has been discussed on here, released the Four Tops duets on top of New Ways and Stoned certainly didn't help.

I'm guessing here but i'd assume Motown would try and push singles higher. Perhaps like a Love Is Here or a My World. both are getting high on the charts, maybe 1 more PR blast will push it over the top. maybe promotional activities w DJs and things

kind of a long story but apparently BG promised Sullivan DR would make her debut on his show. for some unusual reason BG thought it better to keep DR off tv for about a year. the Supremes made their debut but no Ross. Sullivan was angry and then cancelled the Supremes and I [[think) other Motown appearances.
the supremes were scheduled to perform with the Four Tops and perform Stoned and River Deep . but that was the end of Motown and Sullivan and then his show ended about a year later due to his health.

[sup_fan]

Other Motown acts still performed on the Sullivan show though. J5 and Gladys

[daviddh]

Other Motown acts still performed on the Sullivan show though. J5 and Gladys

thanks, my memory is not as good as it used to be but glad your memory is. I do recall the J5 on Sullivan now.