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  1. #101
    This man and Roland Martin are the MVPs so far.

  2. #102
    Thanks for this, jboy88. A voice of reason.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    Or worst of all Donald Trump?

    I haven’t seen Leaving Neverland, and only saw 10 minutes of Oprah n YouTube, and criminal proceedings have to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt, but I think I need to disagree with Evan Ross and some of the Gordy’s and fall in with those saying I think Mr Jackson behaved inappropriately with these people when they were boys
    I don't think anyone African-American and sane would defend djt ... as for Evan, etc ... they weren't in the room, were they? Their right to have an opinion? Of course. But as you lawyerin' sorts know those closest to the perps usually 'see' the least.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by jboy88 View Post
    This man and Roland Martin are the MVPs so far.
    Thank you Jboy88. This was very informative.

  5. #105
    Charles Thomson is spot on. It really sucks to see people taking this ONE SIDED show at face value without doing any research. Just because Cosby and R. Kelly are guilty, doesn’t mean Michael Jackson is too. I agree that having young unrelated children sleeping in your bedroom (even if it is larger than my Grandma’s house) is inappropriate. Anything could have happened in that particular scenario. How many of us have accidentally walked in on a housemate in the bathroom, disrobing, etc? But as far as Michael being a sexual predator, I don’t think so.
    Last edited by jboy88; 03-10-2019 at 10:26 PM.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by cornybside View Post
    Sorry but did I miss something? Who are you referring to? Are you assuming someone here is simply defending MJ because they belong to the same race? If so, isn't making that kind of assumption without any fact to back it up, also considered racist? How is this even relevant to this discussion?
    I’m saying this is a pretty complex issue and if we were present, we would have a case for a somewhat informed opinion (like Evan Ross or Robert Gordy or maybe even Oprah and the like who did some research).

    But I see Facebook posts like “you white supremacist bastards took down R Kelly and Bill Cosby, what about Elvis Presley and Jerry Lee Lewis?

    It should be a little bit more about right and wrong than black and white. More like Motown would have been?

    I waffle on Jackson; I ask myself could he have truly been so innocent or did he have a whole other personality he hid even from Evan Ross? Much like other sexual predators did - like Cosby?

  7. #107
    Charles flubbed on the 1993 settlement with the first accuser and admitted so. Try again, guys.

  8. #108
    This was not even a legitimate documentary. It was completely one-sided, unlike the trial. Bogus!

  9. #109
    Once Michael Jackson kept constantly grabbing his dick while on stage , all bets of his sense of decency were off.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Charles flubbed on the 1993 settlement with the first accuser and admitted so. Try again, guys.
    No, I’m done with this! People have believed this stuff about Michael Jackson since before I was even born! And won’t stop any time soon. Even with a mountain of evidence to prove otherwise. I just hate to see a Motown legend’s legacy tarnished.
    Last edited by jboy88; 03-12-2019 at 11:48 AM.

  11. #111
    The ratings numbers are in and Oprah and HBO failed. They both were ratings disasters. Oprah failed to even get a million viewers.

  12. #112

  13. #113

  14. #114
    Guys who are still defending him, just imagine that this was a normal person you knew from down the street, would you still find a defense or say he's a regressed 10-year-old? Again, he has at least seven accusers (Terry George, Jordan Chandler, Jason Francia, Gavin Arvizo, Wade Robson, Jimmy Safechuck and Michael Jacobshagen). At some point, you have to stop accepting the PR that the family gave to y'all for 50 years and see the truth even if some of y'all and some of the MJ stans that inexplicably would post videos like this as if it's something to be proud about:



    I Want You Back is good but not Four Tops good! Come on now... let it go. It's over.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Guys who are still defending him, just imagine that this was a normal person you knew from down the street, would you still find a defense or say he's a regressed 10-year-old? Again, he has at least seven accusers (Terry George, Jordan Chandler, Jason Francia, Gavin Arvizo, Wade Robson, Jimmy Safechuck and Michael Jacobshagen). At some point, you have to stop accepting the PR that the family gave to y'all for 50 years and see the truth even if some of y'all and some of the MJ stans that inexplicably would post videos like this as if it's something to be proud about:



    I Want You Back is good but not Four Tops good! Come on now... let it go. It's over.
    I let it go in 2005 when Michael was found not guilty on 14 counts! It's Wade Robson, Safecheck and that dumb documentary producer that can't seem to let it go! I mean, how can you produce a 4 hour documentary that was all one sided and still not provide any proof?

    Show me the receipts! They can't, because there aren't any. Michael Jackson did not molest children.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    I let it go in 2005 when Michael was found not guilty on 14 counts! It's Wade Robson, Safecheck and that dumb documentary producer that can't seem to let it go! I mean, how can you produce a 4 hour documentary that was all one sided and still not provide any proof?

    Show me the receipts! They can't, because there aren't any. Michael Jackson did not molest children.
    You have not let it go cause your still carping on about it and you have NO idea what Michael diod with those boys as you werent in the room and neither should have Michael Jackson been sharing a bed with underage boys. Its wrong wrong wrong and the parents are just as bad as Jackson.

  17. #117
    You know what? I'm not finished...

    I know how to get at least one of y'all to really think for a minute. I'm gonna run down all the names of the boys Michael spent time with from the ones that just extended to the phone to boys he spent time with alone. Get ready, it's a long one (WARNING: descriptions in the list contains graphic sexual contact, VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED).

    LIST OF MJ'S BOYS (that includes people he befriended and people who have alleged abuse went down and this ain't just sexual, it's also emotional abuse)

    1.) Rodney Allen Rippy (b. 1968) (1974-around 1979 or 1980): If you older Soulful Detroit posters remember, there was a boy pitchman named Rodney Allen Rippy. He was popular enough to get on the first-ever American Music Awards at the age of 5. This is where 15-year-old Michael Jackson met him. You can see footage today. According to Rodney in 2005, Michael asked him if he wanted to be friends with him and call each other on the phone, Rodney agreed. Rodney said elsewhere that his mother forbid Michael to physically hang out with him so they settled on phone calls. Rodney said Michael would call him every Saturday afternoon. He said by the time Off the Wall was a hit, they lost contact.

    2.) Ricky Segall (b. 1969) (1974-around 1979 or 1980): Also at the American Music Awards, Ricky is best known as one of the actors in the family sitcom, The Partridge Family. Anyway, after the AMA's, he also had a phone friendship with 15-year-old Jackson. He was 4. Like Rodney, it never extended outside phone talk and they lost contact around the same time he and Rodney stopped talking.

    3.) Terry George (b. 1965) (1979-1981): The oldest of the "Jackson boys", Terry met Michael when he was 13 at a hotel in Leeds, England, where Terry lived. He was known for being the "kid interviewer of the rock stars". Michael was his idol. On February 19, 1979, the Jacksons performed in Leeds and Terry was there. Afterwards, he was determined to get an interview with Michael. He eventually found the hotel room where Michael was staying in and was allowed to interview him and his brother Randy. In the conversation, 20-year-old Michael was asked "what is it do you like the most?" Michael's response was "I like kids a lot", just a few minutes later, he added "I like fish" before laughing nervously. After the interview, he asked Terry for his number. Terry again accepted it and the two had a mostly phone relationship from then on. In April of 1979, Terry said their conversation turned abruptly into something that still stuns Terry now: he said Michael began asking him if he masturbated, he hesitated to answer him. After a brief pause, Michael said to Terry, "would you believe I'm doing it now?" Terry then said he heard "strange noises" from Michael's end. When Michael figured Terry wasn't into it, he changed topics. The relationship continued until 1981 when Terry ran up an expensive bill that his family couldn't pay and the phone was cut off. Terry saw Michael again in 1983 and though they took pictures together, he said Michael acted "coldly" to him and Terry couldn't understand why Michael was cold to him. Terry would later say Michael called him in 2005 to apologize for what he had done to him years before.

    4.) Sean Lennon (b. 1975) (1983-1990): The son of legendary Beatle John Lennon, Michael first met Sean when he was 8. Sean is noted for being one of the first of the Jackson boys to spend time at Jackson's house (this one being Hayvenhurst) and at Jackson's bed. Sean was also one of the first boys to be seen in public with Michael. Because he was a celebrity kid, no one seemed to mind. Sean was also one of the first boys to sleep in Jackson's bed. Sean later was in Michael's "Moonwalker" movie. While he said MJ never molested him, here is what his friend, future Grammy and Oscar-winning musician Mark Ronson, said about a night with Sean and MJ at MJ's bed in Hayvenhurst:

    It’s a weird story, but I didn’t touch him. We (Sean & Mark) used to watch the porn channel because we were like, 10 and ‘Oh my god (boobs)!’ So Michael was in bed. And me and Sean said,’Michael, do you want to see something cool?’ We turned the dial to the porn channel and there were strippers shaking their (boobs) around. We were like, ‘Michael, Michael, how cool is this?’ We turned around and he was cringing, saying,’Ooh stop it,stop it,ohh, it’s so silly.’ We were like,’Michael, you have to look, maybe your not seeing it right, it’s naked girls!’ He was not down with the program whatsoever! I think he had really strong feminist views on porn.



    Now of course, this story just throws that whole "I'm Peter Pan" thing to question. Peter Pan wouldn't let two 10-year-old boys watch PLAYBOY... WHILE IN THE BED WITH A 27-YEAR-OLD MAN!

    Sean wouldn't be but 14-15 until he began losing contact with Michael. While he's adamant that Michael didn't molest him (still, 'cause I must stress that to people who may think I'm assuming Michael just molested every boy he was with because I'm not), he released this video and song called "Bubbles Burst". Yeah I'll let you play the video and figure it out yourself:



    (PART ONE FINISHED, PART TWO TO CONTINUE)

  18. #118
    PART TWO:

    5.) Jonathan Spence (b. 1973) (1983-1989): Michael first met Jonathan Spence in 1978 when he was just 5 when he was classmates with Michael's nephew Taj Jackson. Five years later, Michael and Jonathan's friendship got much closer. Michael started bringing Jonathan around him in public in 1984. Jonathan could be probably be regarded as the first "special friend" after Sean Lennon. By that, I mean, Jonathan was the first one the public saw taking a boy out to amusement parks and other events. When Michael was shooting Captain EO in 1985, 12-year-old Spence was his closest companion. There are pics of him and Jonathan on set, including a few where Michael and Spence are holding hands. Again, this is a 27-year-old man having a much younger boy as his companion. He was called a "family friend" but why was he allowed to be with a grown man??? Like Lennon, Spence also spent a lot of time at MJ's bed. According to workers at Hayvenhurst, whenever Spence was around, he would never talk to them, just Michael. Michael would pet his hair and hug him and kiss his head a lot (this is according to witnesses). Spence would call MJ "daddy". There are photos that show Spence sitting on MJ's LAP. Again, how is this innocent?! I ask you guys who are still defending the lies the Jackson side has told.

    Bu-bu-but wait, it gets worse!

    Blanca Francia, one of the maids at Hayvenhurst, and later at Neverland, claimed she would clean MJ's bedroom and would see Spence's underwear on the floor. She also observed Michael and Spence taking many Jacuzzis together. According to a former personal assistant of Jackson, Spence would "spend at least two nights a week sleeping in Jackson's bed at the age of 12". She said that while she would call Spence's mother Marion to arrange the sleepover, Michael would often call her himself. Spence was still around Jackson as late as 1988-89. During that era, where MJ moved to his new home, Neverland, he gave Spence a Mustang when he was 15-16 years old. Marion Spence would say that Michael invited Jonathan to visit Neverland with his family at least "half a dozen times". At around the same time, he was permanently replaced as Jackson's "special friend" by the boy who would become his accuser, 10-year-old Jimmy Safechuck. After 1989, Jonathan was rebuffed from returning to Neverland.

    In 1993, a raid on Michael's Hayvenhurst mansion uncovered a nude picture of a boy who was believed to be Jonathan Spence. One of his Hayvenhurst guards was called in to "destroy a picture of a nude young boy". He apparently took a lie detector test on Maury Povich's talk show and passed the test that he found the picture but lied when he said he was told to destroy it (as he claimed Michael told him). The picture of the boy reported to be Spence almost made its way to Jackson's 2005 trial but was rebuffed by the singer's defense team. Later in 1997, Spence married at Neverland but MJ was overseas at the time. Despite his early defense of MJ in the 1990s, he never testified on MJ's behalf in 2005 and has not been seen since the early '90s.

    6.) Emmanuel Lewis (b. 1971) (1983-1993): Now for many of us, Emmanuel Lewis might've been the first big time celebrity kid (Lennon was just a celebrity's son) that was seen hanging out with Michael. They first met on the set of Michael's Thriller music video. They quickly became friends and after MJ's Pepsi incident, MJ was allowed to spend time at Emmanuel's house to recuperate. MJ brought Emmanuel famously to both the American Music Awards and Grammy Awards with Brooke Shields. Shields told MJ that they had to leave because "people were constantly looking at them, staring at them" and she was deeply uncomfortable with it (which is quite understandable). MJ also brought Emmanuel with him to the Jacksons press conference where they announced the Victory Tour. Though the family denies it now, allegedly they had issue with Michael spending time with these boys. Michael and Emmanuel spent a lot of time together in 1984, you can google them and see pictures of them hanging around during that time. That year, allegedly, Michael pushed his boundaries when he enter a hotel room with Emmanuel as "father and son". Emmanuel's mother reportedly put a stop to the close bond though their friendship would continue into the mid-1990s. After Jackson was accused in 1993, Emmanuel was never in the same room with Michael again though he constantly tells people he and Michael were still close. Emmanuel of course denies any inappropriate behavior on Michael's part but there are at least a couple pictures of MJ and Emmanuel that would doubt that: one picture infamously showed both MJ and Emmanuel with enlarged baby bottles (apparently they drank their favorite beverages from them) all while laying on a bed together. Another picture showed Michael and his head security Bill Bray in bed with Emmanuel. Though it looks like they were wrestling, it still looked unsettling especially for someone who has been accused of improper behaviors with young boys, don't you think? Nonetheless, I do believe Emmanuel was not molested by Jackson.

    (PART TWO FINISHED; PART THREE CONTINUED)

  19. #119
    PART THREE:

    7.) Jimmy Safechuck (b. 1978) (1987-1992): When Jimmy first appeared in a Pepsi commercial starring Michael, Jimmy was not a fan of Michael's. But he admitted being completely starstruck by Jackson. Much like the other boys in Jackson's life, he asked for Jimmy's number and wrote letters to him. Soon Jimmy visited Hayvenhurst and spent time in Michael's bedroom just playing around. MJ would give him $700 and a globe on his and his family's first visit. In turn Michael would also spend time with Safechuck's family at his house (as we can all see in the documentary).

    Michael and Jimmy's relationship intensified in 1988. Early that year, Jackson invited Safechuck and his family to a vacation in Hawaii. Jimmy, who has said no molestation occurred throughout 1987, said he stayed close to his mother and slept with her despite Jackson's pleas to let Jimmy sleep in his room, something his mother reiterated in the documentary. During the trip back to L.A., Michael would tape a conversation between the two that would be played on the documentary. Jimmy later joined Michael on his "Bad" tour in June 1988, where he joined him onstage at the end of the show dancing like Michael and dressing in the same Bad outfit as him. Jimmy would be the first "mini-Michael" and would also dress like Michael offstage. We all know where this goes next: in June 1988, the Bad tour stopped at Paris and it is here where Jimmy claims the sexual abuse began. Michael was 29, Jimmy just 10 years old. This would continue throughout the Bad tour and afterwards. Jimmy was MJ's new "special boy". During the sexual abuse, MJ would tell Jimmy he was "his first". Lots of people saw the odd closeness between the superstar and the little boy but dare not get involved. When Michael took Jimmy to Neverland, he told him that this was "his house". Jimmy would then allege that Michael constantly abused him in every section of the house basically (if you watch the documentary, he tells you where, too chilling). In 1989, Jimmy said MJ took him to a Zales jewelry store in Simi Valley (Jimmy's hometown) and bought a wedding ring. That ring has remained in Safechuck's possession. It was the ring that Jimmy said Michael conducted a "mock wedding ceremony". MJ called Safechuck "Rubba". Michael also would get angry if Safechuck opened up about being attracted to women, once showing him pictures of singer Sheryl Crow without her makeup (Crow sung background on MJ's Bad tour).

    The sexual abuse began to subside in 1990, when Jimmy was 12 (this is when Wade Robson comes in) and by 14, Jimmy realized he was no longer Michael's "special friend". Jimmy would still be invited by Michael to events but cried when he would be set aside for another friend. Michael noticed this and would angrily send him home. According to two Neverland cooks, they had prepared a special dinner for Jimmy when he was coming over but when Jimmy showed up, Michael told the cooks to tell them he wasn't home. When Jimmy left, Michael snickered and giggled. Such a friend, huh!? On occasion when Jimmy was 12-13, he said that MJ would bring him to his "Hideout" condo and give him wine and have him watch porn videos. He also said MJ's "sexual interactions" got more dirty. I'm not gonna add more but if you watched the documentary when he mentions it, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. Jimmy would be called by Michael in 1993 when MJ was first accused of sexual abuse. Jimmy, who hadn't had much talk with Michael for over a year, said he was elated to get back in contact with his old friend. Jimmy eventually police at the time that he wasn't abused by Michael. Following Michael's settlement with another boy, Michael put a down payment on a new house for the Safechucks to live in.

    In 1994, Jackson invited 16-year-old James to spend time with him in Budapest where Michael shot a promotional trailer for his HIStory album (all while he was married to Lisa Marie). Jimmy stayed with Michael in 1995 and worked on Jackson's video for "Earth Song". This would be the last physical contact between the 37-year-old Jackson and the 17-year-old Safechuck. In 2005, Michael contacted Jimmy again and asked him to testify on his behalf in the criminal trial against him. Jimmy told the almost 27-year-old that he wanted to help Jimmy out with directing music videos before asking him to testify. When Jimmy said no to testifying, Michael got angry and threatened him, saying he would get him for perjury charges from what he told cops in 1993. Prior to this, Jimmy had told his mother that Michael was a "bad man". Though he didn't fully explain it at the time, Stephanie Safechuck was convinced that Michael had molested her son. Jimmy later sued the Jackson estate in 2014. His case was thrown out due to statute of limitations.

    8.) Jason Francia (b. 1980) (1987-1990): Blanca Francia's youngest son wasn't safe from MJ either. During the years MJ spent at both Hayvenhurst and Neverland as well as the Hideout, Michael and Jason spent time together. Jason would later tell police in 1993 and at Jackson's 2005 trial that while playing "tickling games", MJ would fondle Jason's privates between ages 7 and 10, paying him every time for every incident of sexual assault. Jackson paid Blanca $2 million in hush money not to reveal what went on between him and Jason. But in 1993, 13-year-old Jason broke the agreement. Jason was the only other man from the "past incidents" that testified against MJ at his trial.

    (PART THREE FINISHED; PART FOUR TO CONTINUE)

  20. #120
    PART FOUR:

    9.) Wade Robson (b. 1982) (1990-1997): Jackson first met 5-year-old Wade Robson in Australia after Robson won a dance contest that was hosted by MJ's label CBS Records. When the Bad tour hit Brisbane that fall, Robson went onstage with Jackson and became a local star. Robson and Jackson had no contact afterwards, but then in early 1990, Jackson invited Robson, now 7, and his family to Neverland for the weekend. His story was probably one of the most harrowing of the boys. During the first night he slept in Michael's bed, Wade's sister Chantal, just 10, joined them. On the second night, however, Wade slept with Michael alone. When Wade's family left for a vacation, they left their 7-year-old son with Michael for a week. Wade would say within the first or second night they were alone together, MJ slowly began initiating sexual abuse, first touching him, hugging him and kissing him "like a father would". Then it went to more sexual contact. Wade would say during the sexual abuse that Michael told him "God brought us together. We love each other and this is how we show each other love". MJ constantly molested Wade throughout and sometimes when the Robson family would return to Los Angeles, Michael would call Joy Robson (Wade's mom) and tell him to bring Wade to his homes. Michael first called Wade "Applehead" and then "Little One". He and MJ would send faxes to each other and MJ once gave him a video tape birthday message to celebrate his 8th birthday later in 1990. Wade would say later that MJ would tell him if he told anyone what MJ had done to him, "I'll go to jail and you'll go to jail too and our careers would be over." (something he repeated almost verbatim before the 2005 trial) In 1991, Wade, Chantal and Joy Robson left Australia and moved to a home MJ had gave them in Los Angeles. It was also there that Wade was told he was gonna be the main boy in the music video to "Black or White". However, by the time the video began filming, Wade learned he had been replaced by Macaulay Culkin. Still, Robson would be seen in the video dancing. Robson also was in the video to "Jam". Like Jimmy, Wade saw himself being replaced by 9-year-old Brett Barnes. Wade said later that Michael would have the boys compete for his attention.

    Little contact was made between Wade and Michael in 1993 until the molestation allegations hit. Wade, Joy and Chantal were contacted by Michael to tell police that nothing happened, which they agreed to, just to get back in contact with Michael. Wade also told the press the same thing. If you watch the playback in the documentary, you get the sense that the 11-year-old Robson had obviously been coached and coached well. By 1994, Robson had returned to sleeping with Michael where they continued sexual contact (yes, all while Michael was married to Lisa!). In 1997, while Michael was on the HIStory tour, he said MJ molested him one more time, this reportedly involved penetration. Later MJ called Wade and asked him to remove his underwear if there was evidence of blood, which he did. Obviously there is more I can't say on here if you have watched the documentary. But obviously the man was abused.

    Here's how I know Wade testifying on MJ's behalf wasn't because he necessarily wanted to: in 2005, MJ constantly called Wade to testify on his behalf. WADE INITIALLY DIDN'T WANT TO TESTIFY. In fact, it had to take Michael giving him a subpoena to testify. I'm gonna say that again: MICHAEL JACKSON GAVE HIM A SUBPOENA TO TESTIFY. In other words: Wade Robson had NO CHOICE but to do as he was told! Does that sound like anyone who was "eager" to testify? He wasn't. But he did it because he still loved Michael and couldn't imagine Michael going to jail and Michael not being around his children. He was "the strongest witness" in the defense and helped MJ get acquitted. Wade's last contact with Michael was in 2008. 50-year-old Michael asked his former 26-year-old friend for wine. When he brought the wine over, he saw MJ kept guzzling in the wine over and over and over. Then he went upstairs and never came back downstairs. When he asked Michael's children to check on him. One of them said "he's always like this". Now people ask why did he sue Jackson's estate after first accusing MJ of sexual abuse in 2013? Well for one, he had at least two mental breakdowns after getting a job as a film director (he also contributed to at least one MJ musical). After the second breakdown, he stopped working on these projects and quit dancing and choreographing (which had been his life since he later choreographed singers such as Justin Timberlake, Britney Spears and others).

    Another thing people ask "well if MJ was molesting Wade all this time, why did MJ's niece say she was with him?" Well ask Brandi how come she hasn't provided proof besides an L.A. Gear photo with her, Wade and Michael in 1990? How come she say they began having a relationship at 12 and spending time at JACKIE JACKSON'S HOUSE?! Why would Jackie allow his 12-year-old daughter to spend time with a 12-year-old boy unsupervised? Does that make any sense to y'all? I know y'all wanna believe in the Jacksons but ASK QUESTIONS. Something tells me Brandi Jackson is LYING. Also would it have made any difference? Michael and Wade didn't spend every time together obviously and by 1994-95, Wade had already stopped being a "special friend" anyway!

    Also, Wade met his soon-to-be-wife in 2001-2002 when he was 19-20. By then, he would've been in and OUT of a brief relationship with Britney during the drama with Justin. Does that make any sense to y'all? I know y'all wanna believe in the Jacksons but ASK QUESTIONS. Something tells me Brandi Jackson is LYING. Also would it have made any difference? Michael and Wade didn't spend every time together obviously and by 1994-95, Wade had already stopped being a "special friend" anyway! So this is nothing but hot water, not tea.

    Anyway MOVING ON (can you believe I haven't mentioned his first accuser yet?).

    10.) Brett Barnes (b. 1982) (1991-1994): MJ also met Brett Barnes, then 5, in Australia. Like Wade, he also danced like MJ and dressed like him. MJ met him there in Melbourne and they exchanged phone contact for the next several years. In 1991, Brett was invited to Neverland with his family. It was from there that the 32/33-year-old Jackson and the 9-year-old Barnes' relationship took off and he became a VERY special friend. Brett was the only boy to tour with Jackson during the 1992 leg of his Dangerous world tour. He was one of the first of the Jackson boys to be introduced as his "cousin" and since Barnes appeared to share some black DNA, the media bought into it. Though it's impossible for the Australian-born Barnes to be related to a man whose roots originated in Gary, Indiana. Brett remained with him in 1993 even as Michael would start to be more accompanied by the boy who would bring Jackson's throne down (I'll get to him, don't worry). According to Brett and his sister at Michael's 2005 trial, they eventually admit that Brett and Michael had ONE-ON-ONE SLEEPOVERS QUITE A LOT. Brett's sister eventually agreed with a prosecutor during a cross examination that her brother and MJ spent more than a year and a half sleeping together alone (in hers and Brett's accounts, more than 465 days).

    But according to Neverland witnesses and Jackson's first accuser, Brett meant something more: according to one witness, he would see Michael and Brett engage sexually and Jackson carrying Brett on top of him after a shower. Another caught MJ appearing to be sweaty asking for Vaseline and had to immediately run out. Another saw the two kissing with Jackson grabbing his butt. According to the first accuser, the one and only Jordan Chandler, he would often compare him to Brett Barnes, saying Brett did more sexual stuff than Jordan did with him because he refused to do certain things with Michael.

    After the first molestation allegations, Brett was interviewed by police and the media and denied sexual abuse (which he still denies to this day...). Brett and Wade Robson were the first to admit to the world that they SHARED A BED WITH MICHAEL. Before 1993, no one knew any of this! Of course Brett said the two were often sleeping on different sides "far apart". After Jordan Chandler accused him, Michael sent for Brett to be with him on the latter portions of his 1993 leg of the Dangerous tour. However, Brett found out he had to compete with two boys Michael brought from the United States: 13-year-old Frank Cascio and 11-year-old Eddie Cascio. Brett stayed with the trio until Michael ended his tour abruptly to stop his drug addiction. Michael then began spending more time with the Cascio boys and by 1994-95, Brett was out of the picture, despite his claims he continued to visit Neverland until he was roughly 19. In Jackson's 2005 trial, when he testified, Brett admitted being bad with years. He also claimed he still slept with Jackson in his bed until 19-20 years old (2001-02). Weird? Yes. Brett hasn't been seen publicly since the trial in 2005.

    (PART FOUR FINISHED; PART FIVE TO CONTINUE)

  21. #121
    PART FIVE:

    11.) Macaulay Culkin (1991-1994): The eleventh boy is the Culkin kid. I could name Corey Feldman but I'll put him in a different category of boys MJ got in contact with in a sec. Anyway, MJ reportedly first met Macaulay in 1990 when Macaulay was in the musical for the Nutcracker. After seeing Macaulay in Home Alone, Michael, according to Culkin, "called him out of the blue" and wanted to meet him at Neverland, to which Culkin, 10, agreed. Reportedly when the day came for Culkin to arrive, Jackson got "excited like a boyfriend ready to see his girlfriend on a date". He also reportedly told staff after seeing HA, "look at his lips, I love the pouty smile!" Again, weird language from someone who was "just a kid at heart"! Either way, Michael got close to Macaulay and he also got somewhat close to Mac's brother Kieran. Though Culkin's entire family visited, the Culkin sisters didn't sleep much in Michael's bed (similar to sisters of other "special friends"). Ironically enough, years later, Michael would admit to Martin Bashir that he and Macaulay slept in bed together adding Kieran in the mix as if that was a normal explanation. Funny for a guy who said he only "slept in the floor" while giving another boy his bed, he admits to sleeping in the bed with children! Macaulay admitted this at the 2005 trial and also admitted something else that should be startling to the truthers in the board: Macaulay testified that Michael's hallway to his bedroom would start to make ding dong chime noises as if someone was coming to the door of the bedroom. Earlier, he had said the bedroom was an "open policy". So WHY would it need a ding dong warning chime if it was an open policy??? It might've been open for HIM and kids like him but not anyone else. Macaulay also admitted to sleeping alone with Michael on many occasions. Michael and Macaulay, like other of his celebrity kid friends, were seen in public places a lot during 1991-92. Sometime in '91, before Dangerous was released, Michael and Macaulay had a vacation to Bermuda. While Mac's family traveled along, Michael spent most of that time with Mac ALONE. Macaulay became the boy lead in "Black or White", a role that was originally given to Wade Robson. Due to Macaulay's workload, he couldn't go to MJ's tour so Brett Barnes became his only accompanied boy. But Michael and Mac were still close enough by 1993. By 1994, however, 14-year-old Culkin had stopped coming frequently to the Ranch. He claims he had stopped it because the native New Yorker (pun intended if you remember the song "Native New Yorker") didn't feel the need to travel to California. They reestablished contact by 1997 though, according to Culkin. Culkin also attended MJ's 30th anniversary concerts at Madison Square Garden in 2001 and cameramen flashed to see a 43-year-old Jackson and a 21-year-old Culkin engage in a deep conversation between shows. Macaulay would be called the second strongest witness in the 2005 trial. But he also was alleged to have been abused by Michael on several occasions, to which Culkin denies to this day. Culkin was one of the few boys to attend Jackson's private funeral in September 2009, three months after Jackson's death.

    12.) Jordan Chandler (1992-1993): Like most boys, Jordan met Michael as a tyke, just five years old. But by May 1992, the two would get in contact again after Jackson's car broke down in Los Angeles. Michael was taken to a Rent-a-Wreck shop where Dave Schwartz and June Chandler gladly got Michael on the phone with Jordan. From there, the relationship went like with other boys: phone conversations. It wasn't until February 1993 that the 34-year-old Jackson and the 13-year-old Chandler began hanging out. At first they spent time at Neverland playing all the rides together and jet skiing. They also took off on golf cart rides. During his third weekend at Neverland with his parents, Jordan asked his mother if he could sleep with Michael since other boys slept there, June refused and he stayed with his family at a guest unit.

    In late February 1993, they took a trip to the Mirage Hotel in Las Vegas. It was there that Michael and Jordan first slept in bed together. Jordan claimed MJ had got Jordan to watch the movie, The Exorcist. The film scared Jordan so bad when Michael asked if he wanted to sleep with him, he agreed. The next morning, June asked Jordan where he was after coming out of Michael's room. When Jordan said he had slept in Michael's bed, June told him "no more sleeping with Michael". Later that night, an emotional Michael confronted June in tears saying "don't you trust me? We're family." Feeling guilty, June finally allowed Jordan to sleep with Michael "if he wanted to". Jordan said from then on, he and Michael slept together. Like some other of his friends, Michael also spent time at Jordan's house in Brentwood. Though the family gave him a spare room, Michael always slept in Jordan's room in Jordan's bed. Michael reportedly spent a WHOLE FULL MONTH at the house, which would've been probably April of 1993. Jordan said the sexual abuse had begin to start there, with MJ simply touching him, hugging him and kissing him on his forehead, eventually getting to kiss Jordan in the lips (Brett Barnes also admitted that Michael kissed him but said he kissed "like a grandma would"). Chandler also claimed Jackson would begin kissing Jordan's ear and tongue kissing him; when Chandler protested this, Jackson would again cry and say that other boys had done it (including Brett) and if he loved him, he'd do it basically. Chandler said he and Jackson would rub their bodies on top of the other (Jordan then was nicknamed "Rubba" after that). In May of 1993, Jackson took Jordan, June and JC's half-sister Lilly to the World Music Awards in Monaco. In front of cameras, Jackson was seen with Jordan sometimes on his LAP! (Google "Michael Jackson World Music Awards" and the clip should be available!) It was at a hotel suite there that Jordan said MJ started to teach him how to masturbate and allegedly performed oral sex on him. Jordan would say he had special names for sexual activity: semen was "duck better", "lights" meant an erection. They also engaged in mutual masturbation. Jordan would also claim to authorities that MJ said other boys had masturbated in front of him including Wade, Jimmy, Brett, and Macaulay. Jordan would claim that Jackson performed oral sex on him at every place they were at: Neverland, the Chandler house in Brentwood, the Hideout and his mother's house. Jackson and Chandler slept together for more than 70 nights throughout 1993. In June 1993, Evan Chandler, Jordan's dad, began asking questions about his son's relationship with Michael.

    By July of 1993, Evan finally got time to be alone with Jordan. Jordan complained of issues with his tooth so Evan, a doctor (and local screenwriter) helped him with his tooth. After giving him anesthesia, Evan began asking Jordan if Michael Jackson had touched his private parts. After several minutes hesitating, Jordan, with tears in his eyes, after Evan promised him he wouldn't hurt Michael, said "yes". Evan then hugged his son. Jordan then told his stories to both a psychiatrist and police. During these alleged times of molestation, Michael often gave June expensive gifts. After failure on Jackson's part to reach some deal between him and Evan, the Chandler family went public with their accusations and on August 17, just days before Michael's 35th birthday, a stunned world read the news that the King of Pop was "being criminally investigated for child sexual abuse". Michael reportedly went into panic mode and struggled with drug dependency and suicidal tendencies. He reportedly trashed a hotel room in Europe as well. In September, the Chandlers filed a civil suit. In November, Michael ended his Dangerous tour and went to rehab in Switzerland on behalf of Elizabeth Taylor. In December, Santa Barbara and Los Angeles police served a search warrant on Jackson's person. There, he was forced to strip naked to reveal any markings on his body that was brought up by Jordan, who reportedly drew a picture of Jackson's privates (despite what y'all may have heard and seen, Jordan's actual drawing remains sealed and locked in a folder at the Santa Barbara Police Department). One picture had Jackson lift his penis as if it was in an aroused state, when detectives began to investigate if Jordan's description matched, cops came away believing they did match. Prior to this, Jackson and his team tried to file extortion charges against Evan Chandler, claiming Jackson was part of an "extortion plot". However, in January 1994, the extortion charges were dropped. That same month, 14-year-old Jordan Chandler agreed to settle out of court with Michael and the settlement, signed by Michael, was for $25 million: $5 million to the Chandler lawyers, $2 million each to June and Evan Chandler, and $18 million to the boy himself. All before Jackson was forced to testify in a grand jury, which he pleaded the fifth. In the settlement, WHICH HE SIGNED, Michael settled out of "sexual negligence". Does that sound like an innocent man forced to settle by his insurance company? NO. Insurance companies DON'T settle. Eventually, the Chandlers, now scared to leave their house after getting attacked at reportedly by Jackson fans, they decided to not pursue a criminal case. With the settlement, they agreed not to cooperate any longer with police. Again a settlement is HUSH MONEY AND GUILT. Because of this settlement, Jordan couldn't talk about the case, but Michael apparently didn't get the message: in 1995, he talked about parts of the case to Diane Sawyer, which led to the Chandler family suing him. Eventually Jackson and Chandler settled out of court.

    (PART FIVE FINISHED; PART SIX CONTINUED)

  22. #122
    PART SIX:


    13.) Frank Cascio (b. 1980) (1993-2004): Unlike most boys Michael befriended, Frank Cascio was a rarity, a mainstay. And he knew him longer than '93. According to his book, "My Friend Michael", Frank first met 25-year-old Michael as a 4-year-old. Frank had no idea who Michael Jackson was but they became friends no less. Michael also knew his father Dominic well. By the mid-80s, Michael would travel to New Jersey to visit his friend and his family, which eventually included four other boys and a girl. It wouldn't be until 1993, however, that 13-year-old Frank began spending more time at Jackson's Neverland ranch where they also hung with Jordan Chandler. Eddie Cascio, Frank's brother, often tagged along as well. After Michael was first investigated for child abuse charges, Frank and Eddie traveled with him throughout the Dangerous world tour, which raised suspicion with authorities. The Cascio parents however defended MJ.

    By 1994, Frank and Eddie accompanied Michael's time as did, occasionally, Wade Robson. And the Cascio boys remained with him when Michael released the HIStory album. By 1996, Frank and Eddie, along with another brother, Dominic, traveled with Michael but Frank, now 16, became the closest of the Cascio boys to be with Michael. This closeness carried on as Frank became a young adult. In 1999, when Frank was 19, Michael hired Frank to work in his team. Frank eventually helped to organize Michael's 30th anniversary concerts at Madison Square Garden. But Frank also saw different sides to Michael as he became an adult, he realized that Michael had a serious dependency on prescription drugs and he also began drinking wine, "or Jesus Juice" heavily. He admits to all of this in his book, "My Friend Michael". He also admits to sleeping in bed "hundreds of times" with Michael and sharing a Jacuzzi with him (though he claims they were clothed???). Again, why do this with a TEENAGE BOY??? Frank also admitted there were times Michael "didn't trust him" if he started telling people of his drug issues and they would have "screaming matches" that ended with them apologizing and sleeping in the same bed when Frank was a young adult.

    In 2003, Frank was there when MJ was accused of sexual molestation a second time and criminally charged. Frank last saw Michael at Neverland in January 2004. When MJ heard Frank was skeptical of testifying at the trial, Michael berated him and accused him of "betraying" him. Frank decided to move on from Michael, saying his heart broke over his friend questioning his loyalty to him. Frank was never invited to see him when MJ visited the Cascios. In 2007, they had one final meeting where Michael and Frank apologized to each other and made plans to be together on Michael's final tour of London in 2009 when Frank received news that Michael had died. Though he has consistently denied that Michael sexually abused him as a child, he has remained silent during the airing of Leaving Neverland.

    14.) Anton S. (b. 1983) (1995-2006): Another mainstay, German Anton S. first met Michael when he was 12 while Michael visited an amusement park in Germany. Michael and Anton spent a lot of time together with Michael even sleeping at Anton's house in Anton's bed. During the HIStory tour, Anton sometimes shared MJ's bedroom at hotel suites. In 1997, he spent three weeks with Anton by himself. That time with Anton inspired him to write the romantic song "Speechless". Michael would claimed he was inspired by a water balloon fight with Anton (though he phrased it as "these kids") and that he ran upstairs "in their house" to write it. A song that starts off as your love is magical, that's how I feel but I've not yet found the words to explain as written to some KID should be getting your antennas up! Jackson continued to visit Anton until 2006 when the young man was 22-23. Anton also spent time with Michael at Neverland and the two stayed in contact after Michael left the ranch in 2003. Anton was with Michael when he moved to Bahrain in 2005 and later returned to Germany. In 2006, the media flashed 47-year-old Michael and his 23-year-old friend Anton in Germany. Later in June, Anton was again spotted near Michael. He was described by some in the media as his "20-year-old protege". After 2006, they lost contact. Anton has never confirmed NOR DENY that he was molested during his childhood years as Michael's "special friend".

    15.) Michael Jacobshagen (b. 1983) (1995-1998): Another German boy Michael became friends with, Jacobshagen traveled with Michael throughout the HIStory tour along with Anton and Omer Bhatti. In January of this year, Jacobshagen admitted that Michael was sexually aggressive towards him when he was fourteen. He said MJ would touch all over him and rub his body on top of his in the bed, he also said when MJ would be medicated, the touches became "more aggressive". Jacobshagen also said MJ stripped in front of him before they got in a Jacuzzi and told him if he wanted to get naked, it was okay, Jacobshagen refused. Jacobshagen said he felt Michael was trying to test him to see how far he could go. Jacobshagen also sent him letters calling him his "little Rubba Rubba friend" and sent him a copy of a nude book titled "The Boy" which featured underage boys naked writing inscriptions for him. In the Australian program, Sunday Night on 7, it would be discovered that Jackson had actually circled on several of boys' body parts inside the book(!). "The Boy" was found in Michael's possession after a 1993 raid of Neverland, along with another underage boy book, "Boys Will Be Boys", which was said to be more explicit. Shockingly, both books are still "legal" to own though BWBB seems suspicious.

    16.) Omer Bhatti (b. 1985) (1996-2009): Another Frank Cascio. However unlike Frank, this one would be there until the end. Omer first met Michael in 1996 when he was 11. The Norwegian boy got Jackson's attention the same way Brett Barnes and Wade Robson got his: by dancing, and like Wade, he danced on TV impersonating Michael. During a stop in Norway on his tour, Michael met him at a hotel suite and soon had the boy travel with him on his HIStory tour. According to reports, Omer was Michael's "best man" at his "wedding" to Debbie Rowe in October 1996. Shortly afterwards, Omer traveled with Michael - ALONE - to Neverland. Because he knew the media would be suspicious about another boy accompanying him (as Chris Rock would say, ANOTHER KID?!), Michael gave Omer the assumed name of "Michael Joseph Winter". He also would claim to both Frank Cascio and members of his family that Omer was his "son". Inexplicably, the Jackson family BOUGHT INTO THIS LIE! You would see certain members, including, shockingly enough Joe Jackson, saying that Omer was his son. Which would be odd since if that was the case, WHY WASN'T OMER ON THE WILL? Simple: because he wasn't HIS SON! He already had a biological father and mother. Despite this, Omer also called Michael "daddy" at times. Frank Cascio knew better but the Jackson family didn't? Yikes.

    Anyway, Omer would be present for the births of Michael's three children and, like Frank and Anton, took turns raising the children with Michael. Omer slept in Michael's bed numerous times throughout the years even into adulthood. At times, Omer would live separate lives: the life with his family in Norway and the life with MJ in California at Neverland. Omer would remain MJ's constant companion until a few weeks before Michael's death on June 25, 2009. At Michael's memorial service at the Staples Center, Omer was seated next to Michael's children PER THE FAMILY REQUEST!!!

    Omer said something suspicious when asked about MJ's inappropriate behavior with kids and what they did together: I don't wish to say too much about it, but I will say Michael in many ways was very innocent. But you can't expect everybody to have the same view on everything... to him certain things were natural and completely innocent, things that not necessarily all people would view the same way



    You tell me if that statement makes sense to you... don't worry I'll wait...

    (PART SIX FINISHED; PART SEVEN TO COMPLETE)

  23. #123
    AND NOW...FOR THE FINISH:

    And these were the MAIN ones but there were a few others he spent time with:
    1.) Alfonso Ribeiro (b. 1972) (1984-86)
    2.) Corey Feldman (b. 1971) (1984-89): admitted to sleeping over at Michael's bed; claims no molestation, but said MJ showed him a book of nude adults and said if MJ showed it to his kid, he'd "punched him".
    3.) Damien Stein (b. 1979) (1988-92): initially phone calls and letters but soon Michael would send Damien to be with him at the Hideout and Neverland; Michael then visited Damien's home in California where he shared a bed with him. This would be when Damien's father taped conversations Michael would have with Damien's mother Glenda, i.e., the Glenda Tapes that are on YouTube right now. Damien said he lost contact with Michael around 1992.
    4.) Mark Ronson (b. 1975) (1985-87): the future Grammy winner who admitted sleeping in Michael's bed at Hayvenhurst.
    5.) Kieran Culkin (b. 1982) (1990-92): also slept with Michael with brother Mac. Has never talked about his relationship with Michael as far as I know.
    6.) BJ Novak (b. 1979) (1992): Michael once came to a restaurant he was at in Massachusetts while with Deepak Chopra and MJ sat next to BJ at the "kids table" trying to impress them.
    7.) Aaron Carter (b. 1987) (2001-2004): Aaron would claim when he was 15 that MJ gave him wine and caught him trying to sleep in his bed. Of course Aaron now denies he ever said that but Aaron is a really messed up fool so I'll leave it at that!

    Then there are just moments of straight up weirdness and inappropriateness with kids in GENERAL:

    1.) Lisa Marie Presley (his first wife) - he met her in 1975 when she was 7 and he was 16. Claimed he saw "something special in her eyes". Once invited her and Priscilla to Hayvenhurst in 1984. Priscilla showed up alone. When MJ wondered where Lisa was, Priscilla was adamant about bringing a 16-year-old girl with her.
    2.) Tatum O'Neal - claimed they started dating in 1977 when he was 19 and she was...13/14. Again, why is a grown man admitting to this. He also claimed Tatum tried to seduce him one night at the same age. This prompted Tatum to deny she ever did this and she wrote about it in her book.
    3.) Soleil Moon Frye - in 2011, the former Punky Brewster told "Today" that when she was 8, she spent time at a Jacuzzi with a 25-year-old Jackson talking about "life".

    ----
    Now this may take y'all time to read but once you get done with it, you go and try to tell me that Michael Jackson was this innocent that got railroaded. Time to stop thinking the Michael Jackson who sang "I Want You Back" and "ABC-123" was the Michael we all know and love. The real Michael Jackson was obviously a different character and not one to be seen as a hero but as a flawed man who obviously went over boundaries he shouldn't have with innocent children. PERIOD!


  24. #124
    Jimmy Safechuck claimed that in 1989, Michael and him went to a Zales jewelry store to buy a wedding ring, the same ring MJ gave Jimmy to wear. He also said MJ wore a disguise as not to be seen. Well whadaya know, there's MJ and Jimmy:


  25. #125
    Another video of the Zales episode on Entertainment Tonight:


    Check the ending, MJ's PR had him posting stories that he was in a "serious romance" with Sheryl Crow. Truth was he hardly talked to his band mates, much less Sheryl Crow. JIMMY however (who is seen in the store leaving with Michael with his mullet hairdo hiding under his cap) was attracted to her.
    Last edited by midnightman; 03-13-2019 at 03:19 AM.

  26. #126
    Last edited by scanspeak; 03-13-2019 at 03:40 AM.

  27. #127

  28. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Roberta75 View Post
    You have not let it go cause your still carping on about it and you have NO idea what Michael diod with those boys as you werent in the room and neither should have Michael Jackson been sharing a bed with underage boys. Its wrong wrong wrong and the parents are just as bad as Jackson.
    Preach Roberta preach! He insists Michael Jackson is innocent because he wants to believe Michael Jackson is innocent. None of us know what really went on in those bedrooms, but you are 100% spot on when you say that the parents have a lot to answer for in this sordid situation. The whole damned thing fills me with disgust. If Jackson is guilty he will rot in hell. I am happy to let God dish out justice.

  29. #129
    I ended up watching the four hour documentary and after show with Oprah. It is indeed some powerful stuff. I cannot deny that some lines have been crossed, whether or not everything happened exactly as they say it did. For instance, I have a hard time believing that MJ would have told anyone that, "I am going to form public relationships with women and eventually get married...but it does not mean anything. I need to do it for my image." This is what James states in the documentary. At the end of the day, there were definitely some lines crossed and perhaps some money involved, motivating these people to come forward, regardless of what anyone says about that. As a fan, it is not that important for me to be factually right or wrong on all of this, so I will not continue to go to lengths to copy and paste absurdly long posts from questionable blogs on the subject. For me, having also been a victim of childhood abuse and trauma, I can feel for these guys, and if they are telling the truth (and I believe a lot of it is true), I feel sorry for them, and if they are lying, I also feel sorry for them. Having also walked this difficult path myself, I have been able to mostly move on and forgive. I hope they can also come to this resolution, as well as the fans and general public. The intense emotional response from everyone here is warranted, because this is a heavy and serious subject. I can respect if some people want to stop listening to Michael's music. I doubt that will be the case for me, only time will tell. In time, I hope more people come forward to solidify this story, as I agree with Roger Friedman, who reviewed this doc, and said there are a lot of moving parts here.

    Michael has no one to blame for himself, if his legacy ends up being tarnished. Perhaps the greater good in all of this is that our society can be more informed and aware of the risks and dangers, as well as recognizing and healing from abuse.
    Last edited by cornybside; 03-13-2019 at 09:07 AM.

  30. #130
    The links ain't convincing anyone. Read my posts and...


  31. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    The links ain't convincing anyone. Read my posts and...

    Your links and unbiased views are real appreciated Midnightman. Thanks

  32. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Preach Roberta preach! He insists Michael Jackson is innocent because he wants to believe Michael Jackson is innocent. None of us know what really went on in those bedrooms, but you are 100% spot on when you say that the parents have a lot to answer for in this sordid situation. The whole damned thing fills me with disgust. If Jackson is guilty he will rot in hell. I am happy to let God dish out justice.
    Perfectly said my dear friend. And the Lord will dish it out if its needed. xx

  33. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Roberta75 View Post
    Your links and unbiased views are real appreciated Midnightman. Thanks
    Thanks Roberta.

  34. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    I let it go in 2005 when Michael was found not guilty on 14 counts! It's Wade Robson, Safecheck and that dumb documentary producer that can't seem to let it go! I mean, how can you produce a 4 hour documentary that was all one sided and still not provide any proof?

    Show me the receipts! They can't, because there aren't any. Michael Jackson did not molest children.
    Yeah I know you probably lurked this morning and saw my posts and you didn't have nothing to say.


  35. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    Once Michael Jackson kept constantly grabbing his dick while on stage , all bets of his sense of decency were off.
    Exactly. Mr. "I'm a child at heart" was constantly thrusting his damn crotch and grabbing his penis all the time. He got called out on it after the Black or White video and to keep it in there, he ADDED fake graffiti images of racist slogans to prove his lying point that all he was doing was combating racism by... simulating masturbation, trashing cars and turning himself into a panther...


  36. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Yeah I know you probably lurked this morning and saw my posts and you didn't have nothing to say.

    You haven’t changed my mind! I’m done investing my time and my receipts because there’s no point! You or someone else will nitpick about it. I have better things to do than argue with you and everyone else that brought into that BS documentary!

  37. #137
    The mj defenders sound like the djt defenders. 'Ya know - the dood who could shoot someone on 5th Ave and not lose his anti-witch hunt supporters.

  38. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by jboy88 View Post
    You haven’t changed my mind! I’m done investing my time and my receipts because there’s no point! You or someone else will nitpick about it. I have better things to do than argue with you and everyone else that brought into that BS documentary!

    Well you bought into last week and showed some real pause on MJ guilt or innocene.

  39. #139
    Lol if people don't care, then why they come here posting BS? Because they know not too many people who did some research wasn't gonna buy into it. It's too late to change your feelings now. They proved they DID care. They would let Michael sleep with their sons.

    All because he used to be a sangin mf at 10. Weak! Y'all are weak!!! LOL

  40. #140
    Midnightman, you did an awful lot of research on this; thank you for that. I must say I didn't like what I was reading and I wondered how I could be blind about it at times and how anyone could be blind after reading what you wrote.

    About Michael's crotch grabbing etc. - well, when you learn how to masturbate in your 30's, you would tend to really overdo it and he did.
    Last edited by jobeterob; 03-14-2019 at 12:09 AM.

  41. #141
    I tend to fall on the motto that where there's smoke, there's fire. For years I believed he was guilty because of the settlement. I always said an innocent man wouldn't settle when having this heinous accusation leveled at them. Being older and more "worldly" (ha!) I do understand that wealthy people pay off accusers of one thing or another all the time when they have the money to cut the check and quickly move on and hopefully get people talking about something else. I get it now just like I understand how people who confess to crimes are not always guilty. So I don't use MJ's payoff(s?) as a determinate in my opinion regarding his guilt anymore. Dude was a weirdo in so many ways. Why would molesting children be out of the question? I think it may even be likely that he's guilty. But would I bet my life on it? Nope. No one has been able to produce nothing more than hearsay and retroactive memories. I need evidence in order to be placed over the edge. I believe the latest accusers have questionable characters which really makes their words pretty hollow for me. And yeah, I have to question "why now"? They had the opportunity to speak up in 2005 and didn't. Now they do it when the man is dead and can't say "yay" or "nay". There's a grieving family, including MJ's children, who have to deal with the fallout, and for what? No one can hurt Michael now. He's dead. His reputation can't hurt him, his finances can't hurt him, so what's the point? If he is guilty, these two dudes won't be the ones to convince me.

    On the flip, touching on a point Midnight was making, if MJ were still some rando from Gary, would the thought by his staunch defenders be any different? My guess is that it would. Michael was human and subject to some of the same problems seen among "regular" folk. Even if the two latest accusers are lying, there's a lot of smoke before them. Something wasn't right.

    So am I convinced he was a pedophile? No. Am I convinced that he wasn't? No. And I think it'll be harder to convince me one way or the other because he isn't here to chime in, barring the discovery of irrefutable evidence, like videos and photos. Can I still enjoy his music and artistry knowing that it may even be likely that one of my favs of all time (up until about 1996...although I enjoyed the Invincible album and thought it a return to the Mike of old, I really viewed this MJ as someone completely different than the MJ of my childhood) was a pedophile? Yes I can because I can usually separate the artist and the art they create, particularly for music. Might this change if something more concrete were to surface? I think so, if at least changing somewhat.

    This entire thing is a mess, no matter what side you're on.

  42. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I tend to fall on the motto that where there's smoke, there's fire. For years I believed he was guilty because of the settlement. I always said an innocent man wouldn't settle when having this heinous accusation leveled at them. Being older and more "worldly" (ha!) I do understand that wealthy people pay off accusers of one thing or another all the time when they have the money to cut the check and quickly move on and hopefully get people talking about something else. I get it now just like I understand how people who confess to crimes are not always guilty. So I don't use MJ's payoff(s?) as a determinate in my opinion regarding his guilt anymore. Dude was a weirdo in so many ways. Why would molesting children be out of the question? I think it may even be likely that he's guilty. But would I bet my life on it? Nope. No one has been able to produce nothing more than hearsay and retroactive memories. I need evidence in order to be placed over the edge. I believe the latest accusers have questionable characters which really makes their words pretty hollow for me. And yeah, I have to question "why now"? They had the opportunity to speak up in 2005 and didn't. Now they do it when the man is dead and can't say "yay" or "nay". There's a grieving family, including MJ's children, who have to deal with the fallout, and for what? No one can hurt Michael now. He's dead. His reputation can't hurt him, his finances can't hurt him, so what's the point? If he is guilty, these two dudes won't be the ones to convince me.

    On the flip, touching on a point Midnight was making, if MJ were still some rando from Gary, would the thought by his staunch defenders be any different? My guess is that it would. Michael was human and subject to some of the same problems seen among "regular" folk. Even if the two latest accusers are lying, there's a lot of smoke before them. Something wasn't right.

    So am I convinced he was a pedophile? No. Am I convinced that he wasn't? No. And I think it'll be harder to convince me one way or the other because he isn't here to chime in, barring the discovery of irrefutable evidence, like videos and photos. Can I still enjoy his music and artistry knowing that it may even be likely that one of my favs of all time (up until about 1996...although I enjoyed the Invincible album and thought it a return to the Mike of old, I really viewed this MJ as someone completely different than the MJ of my childhood) was a pedophile? Yes I can because I can usually separate the artist and the art they create, particularly for music. Might this change if something more concrete were to surface? I think so, if at least changing somewhat.

    This entire thing is a mess, no matter what side you're on.

    Very well said RanRan79.

  43. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    I let it go in 2005 when Michael was found not guilty on 14 counts! It's Wade Robson, Safecheck and that dumb documentary producer that can't seem to let it go! I mean, how can you produce a 4 hour documentary that was all one sided and still not provide any proof?

    Show me the receipts! They can't, because there aren't any. Michael Jackson did not molest children.
    O.J. Simpson was also found not guilty. Do you think he was innocent too?

  44. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Roberta75 View Post
    Well you bought into last week and showed some real pause on MJ guilt or innocene.
    There’s nothing wrong with giving the other side a chance. No matter how flawed it is!

  45. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by jboy88 View Post
    There’s nothing wrong with giving the other side a chance. No matter how flawed it is!
    Its only flawed in your opinion just like the blind pro Michael Jacksons fanatics are flawed IMO.

  46. #146
    “As of Monday, the total audience for Part 1 had risen to a healthy 3.7 million, thanks to delayed viewing on television, DVR and the HBO platforms HBO Go and HBO Now, and the second part of “Leaving Neverland” had been watched by 2.5 million viewers.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/11/b...son-music.html

  47. #147

  48. Quote Originally Posted by Circa 1824 View Post
    I watched HBO's Leaving Neverland last night. I am still speechless. It was a devestating two hours. I believe the boys. One was 7 years old.

    Superstardom is so powerful. Even if one does not believe the boys, the show was an expose on superstardom, and how most of us would do almost anything to get close to these superstars.
    Complete lies. I watched that 2 hour documentary. 2 hours of lies. The problem is people will believe anything in social media and do not do research on their own. All we have is 2 people telling their story and we believe that. No proof other than they knew Mike. How many of you all know that the FBI (who has a 99% conviction rate) found nothing on Mike? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYQnc4Z1M_c). How many of you all know Wade Robson's own former attorney stated he and James Safechuck were lying about Michael (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6769447/Former-attorney-Michael-Jackson-claims-accusers-Wade-Robson-James-Safechuck-lying.html).This fact was left out of the HBO documentary. I wonder why? How many of youall knew that Wade Robson tried to sue Michael’s estate in 2017? (https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2017/12/20/michael-jackson-sex-abuse-lawsuit-dismissed/108772406/)That was left out of the documentary as well. How convenient. This is all a money scheme. So Wade wanted to share his story so bad but the documentary only comes out after he cannot receive money from Michael’s estate. Please. I come with receipts folks I do not do the back and forth with what I feel. Please use common sense people. But since we’re going here let’s go all the way. How many of you all knew Elvis Presley was living, sleeping with, and giving drugs to Priscilla at age 14. I have receipts on that too (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-77j79T0to).Now this interview was over a decade ago. How come they aren’t pulling Elvis’s songs off the radio? You cannot trust these demonic people alive or beyond the grave.
    Last edited by Encyclopedia Mack; 03-15-2019 at 04:27 PM.

  49. Quote Originally Posted by Encyclopedia Mack View Post
    Complete lies. I watched that 2 hour documentary. 2 hours of lies. The problem is people will believe anything in social media and do not do research on their own. All we have is 2 people telling their story and we believe that. No proof other than they knew Mike. How many of you all know that the FBI (who has a 99% conviction rate) found nothing on Mike? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYQnc4Z1M_c). How many of you all know Wade Robson's own former attorney stated he and James Safechuck were lying about Michael (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6769447/Former-attorney-Michael-Jackson-claims-accusers-Wade-Robson-James-Safechuck-lying.html).This fact was left out of the HBO documentary. I wonder why? How many of youall knew that Wade Robson tried to sue Michael’s estate in 2017? (https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2017/12/20/michael-jackson-sex-abuse-lawsuit-dismissed/108772406/)That was left out of the documentary as well. How convenient. This is all a money scheme. So Wade wanted to share his story so bad but the documentary only comes out after he cannot receive money from Michael’s estate. Please. I come with receipts folks I do not do the back and forth with what I feel. Please use common sense people. But since we’re going here let’s go all the way. How many of you all knew Elvis Presley was living, sleeping with, and giving drugs to Priscilla at age 14. I have receipts on that too (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-77j79T0to).Now this interview was over a decade ago. How come they aren’t pulling Elvis’s songs off the radio? You cannot trust these demonic people alive or beyond the grave.
    Here’s another Aaron Carter says they tried to pay him to lie

    https://youtu.be/y8M-sORA6Dc

  50. #150
    There’s also the long unanswered question of who was having sex with Aretha Franklin when she was 13 to 14 or whatever the age was - very young

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